Zion's Christian Soldiers - The Religious Right and Israel

[Sparhawk]

(CBS) This week, Israel's Prime Minister Ariel Sharon told President Bush that he would start to dismantle some illegal Jewish settlements on the West Bank as part of an agreement with the new Palestinian Prime Minister.

That news has already alarmed those Jewish settlers -- and ultra-Zionist Israelis who believe that the Jewish State should control all of the Biblical Jewish homeland.

But they're not the only group that feels that way. So do Fundamentalist Christian Evangelicals who make up the largest single religious grouping in the United States. Correspondent Bob Simon first reported this story on October 6, 2002.

<a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/10/03/60minutes/main524268.shtml">More...</a>

The part about "The Jews die or convert" scares me. Is this really how a lot of bible belt christians feel?

[Dragonlich]

Yes, some Christians are morons, just like some Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Atheists and a lot of other people are morons.

[Liquor Dealer]

I don't think the evangelicals are anywhere close to anything other than a small very very vocal minority - They not only oppose the current attempt to remove some of the illegal settlements, they are opposed to everything on earth if they don't see some personal benefit from it -

The following is a disclaimer of any alliance with their views on Israel from a large group of religious leaders:

July 12, 2002

To: Churches for Middle East Peace E-mail Network
From: Corinne Whitlatch, Director
Re: Evangelical Christians and Israel/Palestine

There is considerable attention in the news and in Washington on the politicized role of the Christian Right in advocacy of unquestioned support for the unyielding policies and actions of the government of Israel. However, many evangelical Christians do not share the views of Ralph Reed and his friends. Here is a letter to the President from over 40 evangelical Christian leaders who "reject the way some have distorted biblical passages as their rationale for uncritical support for every policy and action of the Israeli government instead of judging all actions – of both Israelis and Palestinians – on the basis of biblical standards of justice."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

July 2, 2002

President George Bush
The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue N.W.
Washington DC 20500

Dear Mr. President,

We write as American evangelical Christians concerned for the well-being of all the children of Abraham in the Middle East – Christian, Jewish and Muslim. We urge you to employ an even-handed policy toward Israeli and Palestinian leadership so that this bloody conflict will come to a speedy close and both peoples can live without fear and in a spirit of shalom/salaam.

An even-handed U.S. policy towards Israelis and Palestinians does not give a blank check to either side, nor does it bless violence by either side. An even-handed policy affirms the valid interests of Israelis and Palestinians: both states free, economically viable and secure, with normal relations between Israel and all its Arab neighbors. We commend your stated support for a Palestinian state with 1967 borders, and encourage you to move boldly forward so that the legitimate aspirations of the Palestinian people for their own state may be realized.

We abhor and condemn the suicide bombings of the last 22 months and the failure of the Palestinian Authority in the first year of the intifada to stop the violence against Israeli citizens. We grieve over the loss of life, particularly among children, and the suffering by Israelis and Palestinians. The longer the bloodletting continues, the more difficult it will be for both sides to reconcile with each other.

We urge you to provide the leadership necessary for peacemaking in the Middle East by vigorously opposing injustice, including the continued unlawful and degrading Israeli settlement movement. The theft of Palestinian land and the destruction of Palestinian homes and fields is surely one of the major causes of the strife that has resulted in terrorism and the loss of so many Israeli and Palestinian lives. The continued Israeli military occupation that daily humiliates ordinary Palestinians is also having disastrous effects on the Israeli soul.

Mr. President, the American evangelical community is not a monolithic bloc in full and firm support of present Israeli policy. Significant numbers of American evangelicals reject the way some have distorted biblical passages as their rationale for uncritical support for every policy and action of the Israeli government instead of judging all actions – of both Israelis and Palestinians – on the basis of biblical standards of justice. The great Hebrew prophets, Isaiah and Jeremiah, declared in the Old Testament that God calls all nations and all people to do justice one to another, and to protect the oppressed, the alien, the fatherless and the widow.

Finally, Mr. President, be assured of our prayers for you and your cabinet as you lead our nation in this troubled time. May the strength and peace of the Lord be with you.

Sincerely,

copy: Colin L. Powell, Secretary of State

(This was followed by a long list of signers - see source if you want them) http://www.cmep.org/Alerts/2002Jul12-1.htm

Philip Yancey
Author
Evergreen, CO

The evangelicals are extremists and although they do have the ear of some in the administration I personally do not beleve they have anything other than very limited influence. I think the Bush administration, like all others before it, have tried to not irritate them simpl because of their stranglehold on media interests they control and their uncanny ability to flood the country with their spin on events.

[The_Dude]

there are extremists in every religion who think they're the only ones that are right.

[XenuHubbard]

I'd be scared of extreme Christians if I were Jewish. The Christian Armageddon is supposed to start with the Antichrist leading Israel to war, nuking the surrounding Arab countries.

[Publius]

Just a quick political note. All of the Jewish settlements in Palestine are illigal according to international law.

[Sun Tzu]

Originally posted by Publius
Just a quick political note. All of the Jewish settlements in Palestine are illigal according to international law.

Since when has that ever stopped anyone?

I used to be confused in why or how individuals of Jewish and Christian faiths could get along. This is becasue I was under the impression that the Jews denounce Christ. (not knocking either religion)

Then I became to understand that some Christians are fell violence needs to happen and want it to happen to aid in the coming of Armageddon.

Personally I will never give up my quest for the Golden Fleece.

[seretogis]

Originally posted by Publius
Just a quick political note. All of the Jewish settlements in Palestine are illigal according to international law.

Well, it's a good thing that the UN is doing something about this.

Oh wait, they're not. We are.

[Sparhawk]

Originally posted by seretogis
Well, it's a good thing that the UN is doing something about this.

Oh wait, they're not. We are.

The UN has been anti-Israel pretty much since when they founded the place. None of the regional groups will let Israel join, pretty much condemning it to watching in the wings. While the UN won't admonish China, PRK, Iran, etc, Israel has always been a very easy scapegoat for them.

Don't take this as a pro-Israel post- just the facts, ma'am.

[Liquor Dealer]

Does this mean we should start questioning the UN's existance again?

[Publius]

Originally posted by seretogis
Well, it's a good thing that the UN is doing something about this.

Oh wait, they're not. We are.

Umm last time I checked International Law does not equal U.N., we have had International Law long before there ever was a U.N. Hmm, nope U.N. doesnt have any forces of their own either. Hey know what ??? Matter of fact U.N. is comprised of a whole bunch of countries, 191 of them to be exact. What to hear something else kind of crazy? The U.N. only acts on the behalf of the member states and is not in itself its own entity. And here they are: http://www.un.org/Overview/unmember.html Want to hear something really crazy??? I was at the U.N. in New York earlier this year, speaking before the Great Hall.

Ok seriously, the U.N. is not a law inforcement agency, obviously. International Law is conducted outside of the U.N. and it is not the place of the U.N. to act as an enforcement mechanism. The U.S., whom I am assuming you are refering to when you say 'we' is both a member of the U.N. and a signatory to International Law. These are two seperate things and should not be confused. If a particular law that the U.S. is a signatory too is violated the U.S. can seek help from fellow countries in enforcing the broken law. Sometimes it will attempt to seek help through the U.N., but when the U.N. fails to act, as in the case of Iraq, it is up to the countries who believe the law has been violated to act upon their own. The U.N. is not a universal sovreign, nor is any other international body. Because if this it is up to the individual states to insure that international law is maintained.

[The_Dude]

greatly said publius

[crumbbum]

Actually guys, the settlements aren't illegal under intn'l law. The land didn't belong to anyone- it was captured by Israel from Jordan, which had occupied it illegally. Also, the settlements weren't built on stolen land, they were specifically selected so as not to steal any land that belonged to any arabs. There are mostly on rocky hilltops. They were built for purposes of military strategy, which is why they are on hilltops- they aren't on fertile or desirable land from an agricultural or economic point of view.

And Publius, you give away your bias by referring to them as "Jewish settlements in Palestine".

[Publius]

Originally posted by crumbbum
And Publius, you give away your bias by referring to them as "Jewish settlements in Palestine".

Ah yes, quit right, my bad, let me retract or modify that to read, "Zionist settlements in Palestine". There should defenitely be a distinction between the two, one that I carelessly did not make. Jews are an ethnic group whereas Zionist are a religious sect who happen to be of the Jewish ethnicity.

Now as for how and why the settlements were started to begin with. Rabbi Moshe Levinger, a Zionist leader, started the first settlement in downtown Hebron at the Park Hotel on April 12, 1968, about ten months after the end of the Six-Day War, in direct violation of Israeli policy and international law. Ever hear Hebron mentioned in the news??? Of course you do, all the time. And why do you suppose that is? Well I can tell you that the actions of one Rabbi Moshe Levinger has a great deal to do with it. You are correct in stating that most of the settlements are now on hilltops, but many of them are not. Rabbi Moshe Levinger's settlement, Beit Hadassah is in the very center of Hebron. Hebron is a city of about 120,000 Arabs and only 500 Jews. Yet it is the Zionists who run the place, under the direct supervision of Rabbi Levinger of course. Rabbi Levinger's rap sheet is very long, and he has been charged with murder, assault, and various other crimes. Yet each time Israeli authorities are reluctant to give Rabbi Levinger anything more than a slap on the wrist for his crimes giving him free rein to continue his reign of terror over the people of Hebron. Look him up and when you are done you will wonder why they call the Palestinians the terrorists.

Getting back to international law real quick. It is against international law for any conquering state to establish permanent settlements withing a captured territory. Palestine is a captured territory even though it may not 'belong' to any particular state, it is under Israeli occupation but is not considered part of the Israeli state, therefore the rules of international law still apply.

[MacGnG]

Originally posted by Dragonlich a lot of people are morons.

Originally posted by The_Dude there are extremists in every religion who think they're the only ones that are right.

tru tru

[RaGe2012]

I think its strange how Israel, in its relatively short history as a country, has committed more acts of war against the US than any terrorist group and they have gotten away with it, such as Israeli terrorist plots and the attack on the USS Liberty. They are also the only nation on the planet committing controlled genocide and getting away with it, as well as being the only nuclear-capable nation that hasn't declared itself nuclear capable. Well, Mr. Bush, why aren't we chasing down the Israelis because THEY might have Weapons of Mass Destruction and are refusing to admit it?

[smooth]

Good post, Publius.

The only comment I have is that I understood Zionism to be primarily a political movement rather than a religious one.

[Sun Tzu]

I've been looking for a web source that would present material from as close to a neutral position as possible. This appears to be from that perspective. It presents the material with a choice of reading it in English, Arabic, or Hebrew. For those that havent read the actual "Road Map"; its here. While the biographies given of the sites main contributers; I still don't think those of Zionist persuasion will find everything to be factual; I could be wrong about that though. I see everything as being accurate and neutral, everyone can judge for themselves.

---No hidden agendas here other than education and peace

http://www.fmep.org/

[The_Dude]

it's amazing how US can overlook the violations of our allies.

look @ saudi arabia, they've committed a shitload of violations on thier own citizens, they do cruel punishments, and a shitload of other stuff.

the parade magazine rated the saudi dictator as the #2 worst dictator on earth now (2nd to kim jong ill).

i dont think saddam even made the top 5.

[geep]

Originally posted by The_Dude
it's amazing how US can overlook the violations of our allies.

look @ saudi arabia, they've committed a shitload of violations on thier own citizens, they do cruel punishments, and a shitload of other stuff.

the parade magazine rated the saudi dictator as the #2 worst dictator on earth now (2nd to kim jong ill).

i dont think saddam even made the top 5.

Does that make Saddam a nice guy?

[Sparhawk]

Originally posted by geep
Does that make Saddam a nice guy?

He had to kill at least another half-mil to make the top 5.

[The_Dude]

Originally posted by geep
Does that make Saddam a nice guy?

never said that, but saying that there are/were people 10x worse than the bastard.

[geep]

Originally posted by The_Dude
never said that, but saying that there are/were people 10x worse than the bastard.

Would you support going after them?

[hlprmnky]

Originally posted by geep
Would you support going after them?

Ah, yes. This is the real question, isn't it? To what level is the U.S. willing to involve itself in the affairs of other nations? Are we really interested in taking the 'world's police force' moniker seriously and wading in to situations like the god damned nightmare that is Africa, or North Korea, or Saudi Arabia? Or are we interested only in preserving enough order in the middle east to keep our oil cheap and reliably available until the oil companies can figure out how to maintain their current profit margins selling us hydrogen or similar non-oil fuel sources?

I don't have an "answer" to this question, by the way. I think there are valid arguments for both intervention and non-intervention in world affairs, that aren't necessarily affected even by the "new" world of terrorism in which we live.

I just think geep really hit the nail on the head with that question.

[crumbbum]

Controlled genocide? Are you serious? What on earth are you talking about? Israeli terrorist plots? Give me a break.
As per the Liberty incident, it is not really clear what the hell was going on. It happened in the midst of the 6 day war. If Israel deliberately attacked an american ship, do you really think the US wouldn't do anything about that? I mean seriously. Your post reeks of serious paranoia. I have heard differing accounts about the incident, but it seems to have been an accident. I think it's understandable that the Israelis were jittery during the war. Perhaps it was mistaken for an Egyptian ship, or perhaps they thought they were being spied on. There is no good reason why on earth Israel would attack it's closest ally deliberately.

As far as Hebron goes, there were always Jews in Hebron until an arab mob in 1939 came in with axes and knives and slaughtered over 130 Jewish men, women and children, and mutilated their bodies. They also wounded hundreds. The Jews, in terror, fled and abandoned Hebron. They came back after the war. I don't know who this rabbi is who you're talking about, but something is really messed up if you don't think Jews have any right to be in Hebron. It happens to be the location of the holiest site in the Jewish religion after the Temple mount, the Machpela cave (also a mosque there).