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They wanted in no matter what
It's now beyond conclusive that the Iraq war was going to happen no matter what public opinion was or if Saddam had WMD's or not.
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Hahahaha thats rich, painting planes to look like UN planes?
While I'm not an offical pilot, both of my parents are, I've soloed, and I've spent FAR FAR more time in a small aircraft than anyone should be subjected to. No one identifies planes with paint, and the UN isn't going to be flying U2's in UN colors over a country like that. So Saddam would shoot down a U2 aircraft in UN paint and then the US would claim somehow it was a UN flight, despite the fact that the head of the UN is corrupt and was in Iraq's pocket, and get away with is somehow? Its the most assinine thing I've ever read in the world of wacky conspiracy theroies. Ok no its not but still come on. Iraq had been shooting at our planes in the no fly zones for years, and was in violation of resolutions already. Thats just wacky. |
Yes I agree, it's part of the straussian ideological background of the neo-conservatives to want to bring democracy to undemocratic countries. I think it's clear that they always wanted to go into Iraq. There have been plenty of indications such as things Bush said in meetings after 9/11 and in private before he became President. Even if the U2 flight information in the article is incorrect, I still think that the US administration wanted to go into Iraq.
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I wouldn't be so Quick to write off Philippe Sands as some
Alex Jones type conspiracy theroist. He is a highly regarded, powerful lawyer, and professor. "wacky" doesn't even begin to describe todays world events. http://www.matrixlaw.co.uk/WhoWeAre_...peSandsQC.aspx Quote:
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You might not be so quick to write off Philippe, but based on all that you've shared, I will! ;)
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Or was that supposed to be an insult that I don't quite get :confused: |
The UN does have access to U2's after all
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AN UPDATE ON INSPECTION Executive Chairman of UNMOVIC, Dr. Hans Blix http://www.un.org/Depts/unmovic/Bx27.htm |
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Of course it is Samcol... Neocons like Ustwo are confident in their positions...
Ends always justify the means. |
My question is, why Iraq? There are dozens of dictatorships around the world that were as bad or worse than Saddam's regime. There are easier ways to free up oil reserves. Is it just because the job didn't get finished under Bush Pere's administration?
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If the middle east didn't have oil, it would just be another africa, barely on the US radar. Nearly all the extremists that have any power in the middle east have that power because of the west's desire for oil and the popping up of regimes like the Shah in Iran and the Sauds in Saudia Arabia... Iraq is just another link in a chain. |
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So we have the beautiful mix of a clash of cultures which has been around since the Arabs started to invade the West, something which we barely escaped the first few times. Constantinople may have fallen, but we all owe them a debt of gratitude. And now the same mind set which hasn't changed in 1500 years happens to control a large portion of a vital resource. The only issue is how long the left is going to deny the inevitable that we are in fact at war with radical islam, because the longer we twiddle our thumbs and blame ourselves for the problems, the worse that war is going to be in costs for both sides. So we can stick our thumbs up our ass, ignore the signs of the future (such as the reaction to a editoral cartoon), and pretend nothing bad is going to happen, or we strike now when we have all the advantages. |
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But ustwo, how in the world do you propose we actually win a war against radical islam? We can't even change the mind of creationists in America. Is your hope to just subdue the Middle East while we can, take the oil and run? You said
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I always thought the only way to win the endgame when it came to oil was getting off oil in the first place. I realize there is no miracle panacea that we can pull out of our ass and be oil-free by Thanksgiving, but it does not seem like the U.S. government is really giving an honest effort to weaning us off oil before it is absolutely necessary to do so. It has to be possible. If we can pull an atomic bomb out of our ass in the 40s, we're inventive enough to prop up some serious alternative energy solutions. Continuing to play fire with religious zealots is not going to do anybody any good, no matter what side of the political spectrum you find yourself. This uproar over the cartoons is just laughably pathetic. I had some other stuff to say but I decided I was just reeling off into a digression about backwards religious states... |
The real answer is to work as hard as possible and to spend treasure on making the west less dependent on oil. Get rid of this dependence and there is no need to be involved in the Middle East.
The problem is, the oil lobby is strong. |
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and then it never played out. Blair probobly had the same look on his face when it was suggested, as you did when you read it. That WTF, That's the dumbest thing I've heard look. It could also be a "I don't care what we have to do to get to Iraq" type statement more of an exaggeration. I assume The UK has libel laws Would a lawyer of the caliber of Philippe Sands risk writeing all this in a book without evidence? If it is not true, Blair could and should sue him for libel. |
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That or the memo this guy saw was fake or never exsisted in the first place. I mean he has no reason to lie or anything. its not like it gets him publicity for his books or higher speakers fees. :rolleyes: |
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That's a crime Blair could take this guy to the cleaners, and remove a major thorn from his side in the process. |
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No WMD's found and *GASP* a memo comes out that says they were willing to mislead people to go to war and all the evidence thus far shows that's what happened. This guy is promoting an outrageous conspiracy theory :rolleyes: |
Ustwo
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Securing oil may have played a part but it was not all about the oil (or even the majority). If the war was about oil then the administration would be risking quite a lot for small gains in the change of energy prices and having iraqi oil traded in US dollars. I don't believe that such a risk would be worth the possible benifits. This is not to say that the US does not use its military as an instrument to secure oil supply particularly in west africa.
When you start examining the neo-conservative view that the US government should play the role of world democratic enforcer you discover more reasons behind the war. What this (the role of world democratic enforcer) allows for is twofold. Firstly it strengthens the US position on the world stage and provides increased security (the contention that the current war provided much or any of this is doubtful). Secondly it could be seen as intended, in part, for a domestic US audience. Remember that Paul Wolfowitz was a student of Leo Strauss. Quote:
Other members of the administration were perhaps purely interested in extending the hegemonic position of the USA. It would also correct the mistake Bush senior had made 10 years earlier. Edited for clarification. |
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