There were serious battles in the early church about the correct way to make the sign of the cross on oneself. Three fingers, two fingers, left shoulder first, right shoulder first, etc.

To me, the "He" vs "She" argument is just as silly.


"On second thought, let's not go to Camelot. Tis a silly place..."

Owl..... this was a fantastic little post. You said it all for me... that's pretty much where I'm at, too, but my story won't fit so neatly in a nutshell!

I will say that I believe confession and forgiveness are the best things we can do for each other down here, and I'm not talking about "sins" in the traditional sense. I mean hurting ourselves and each other with our own selfishness. Confession is the sacrifice of self for the sake of relationship, for the sake of love. I think this can be done regardless of one's religion or sexuality or whatever the hell we humans like to divide ourselves up as.

Masters in science, phd in chemistry and masters in theology.

Its called the world view course and it looks at 9 main area of life. its a new topic each week. (theology, philosophy, biology, phycology, sociology, ethics, law, politics, history) and it compares all the different world views but its mainly secular huminism, marxist/lennist and biblical.

All that completely depends on where it's from. For example, if it's a masters in theology (or science and chemistry for that matter) from a place like Moody, then I hardly think the education was impartial. Just pointing out that those degrees, objectively, mean nothing in terms of universal theological authority.

I attend a Catholic university, for example, where I have taken many classes on theological issues and where I have had multiple professors (all with doctorates in theology) teach things quite the opposite of most anything you have stated in this thread. If two different groups of people - all with graduate degrees in theology - say two completely different things...the issue is obviously not as clear as you think or would like it to be.

Fortunately, understanding God is not solely the realm of Pharasees or phd's. This was one of the things Jesus taught us.

It starts with love of God and love of neighbor as oneself and moves on from there.

This principle seems so simple that most people can't quite believe it and thus fulfill the saying that the way to Heaven is narrow while the way to hell is broad and easy.

Yet, it also states that Eve was the one at fault for the forbidden fruit being eaten...God forbid anyone - man or woman - who is capable of free will and thought should actually open their eyes and see the world as it really is and, in that, learn things (the truth, perhaps?) for themselves. The truth it has shown me is that we're not supposed to open our eyes (so-to-speak), see things as they really are or learn anything other than what the Bible tells us.

God was spoken of in the masculine form in the Bible because that particular period in history was very gender-biased. Women had no voice, made no decisions, and held a status much lower than men. Women weren't sought for their wisdom or guidance - men were. An all-knowing, forever-powerful entity such as God could only be a man - so that stories grew popular, be believed, told so that no one would question, worthy of respect. Men represented (and still do, regardless of how much then vs. now) strength, endurance, pride, protection, sustenance, etc. Women were seen as fragile, dainty, frail, ignorant, shrewd, crafty and deceitful. A masculine God was the suitable choice.

Christianity has grown in popularity and has adopted many holidays; giving some a new meaning, purpose.
One example is the holiday Easter, as recorded in early history, was first said to be the Goddess "of the act of love, creation, promiscuity, consummation"; more recently she's construed as a giver of prosperity, fertility and abundance. She was often described as enchantingly beautiful, soft, vivacious, incredibly alluring. She was often drawn holding a small rabbit. The Easter bunny: represents consummation, love; Easter eggs: symbolizes birth, new beginning.

Now, before this is replied to with attempts to discredit, insult or admonish myself or the contents of this post, understand that I'm merely sharing what I know to be true. I've read the Bible cover-to-cover more than once and at one time, I believed in God and accepted Jesus into my heart as a Christian. I found, on my own, that I had questions no one could answer - human or heavenly. The end result was my realization that I will forever be, first and foremost, Wiccan.

My Goddess, Cerridwen, doesn't turn from me if I'm bi-sexual, gay, fat, thin, popular, dirty, clean, pretty or ugly...she is there to protect me, guide me, teach me. I live and let live, I love unconditionally, I take time to learn who I am, I respect everything around me. It's not about who you believe in, what sex represents the focus of your belief, how long your religion has existed, or if your God can beat up my Goddess.

It's about co-existing peacefully, picking your battles and not telling someone they're not getting into your version of a Heaven just because they don't believe what you believe, have the same opinion as you, or choose to do things you see as sinful or blasphemous.

Your actions directed at or directly influencing another person or any number of people, harmful or helpful, will reciprocate itself and it's effect upon it's original source...

One must look at the Bible as a whole. Honestly, Eve was at fault for eating the forbidden fruit and was punished accordingly. The MAN was punished as well for his mistake in ALSO eating the fruit. It wasn't forced on him either. The Serpent/Satan was punished for his part in tempting and trying to decieve the humans. The humans had they truely "opened their eyes" and carefully looked at the situation could have percieved the deception clearly themselves. It's possible though that the desire for the forbidden allowed them to ignore the obvious error in their ways and proceed down that forbidden road. So often we choose a path that is obviously filled with stones and problems simply because we see only the silver lining or the fact that it is forbidden is just to appealing for us to willingly open our eyes.

I do not in the least follow the Bible to the letter. I DO believe though that there are a multitude of lessons to be learned from the Bible. I believe that seeing things clearly will always be a constant struggle for humans as we consistently view things for the glasses of personal experience and desire. A pure glass to view things from rarely if ever exists.

I am Christian, in that I believe in Christ, and I believe in his teachings.

I believe in love for God, fellow man, enemy and self. I believe that I am a sinner. I believe in His forgiveness.

As for how this meshed up with the TFP, well... It may be 'right' for me to be here, and for some reason, it may be 'wrong'. But it is a sin that I can choose to live with, and it isn't at all hurtful to anyone. To me, these sins, these minor transgressions are the most forgivable.

And as onesnowyowl said, I would much, much, much rather err on the side of a little fun and eventual forgiveness, than a life of stifled boredom.

Christians are human with temptations and blemishes like the rest of us. However, they have something that non-Christians do not. They have the Bible and Christ's forgiveness to support their choices. When I went to church, the preacher would not help a lady being hit by her husband in church.

For Catholics, the Second Vatican Council says that they are supposed to "live in the world." I take it to mean that it includes participation in forums such as these.

Moreover, I wanted to add that there was some discussion far up in the thread that Catholics should be content not indentify themselves as Christians. However, this characterization ignores history (at least from the Catholic's perspective regarding what happened during the Schism and Reformation): for the first thousand years or so Catholics were the only Christians.

First of all Does it really matter what everybody believes? I mean that decision is usually a personal one. If you think about it nobody can prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that what they believe is 100% correct. Thats why they call it faith.
Think about. God exists through faith. If he revealed himself to all then we no longer need to have faith and if we ceased to have faith then god would cease to exist because there is no faith.
Makes no sense right. Well maybe. Anyway kind of a pointless thread that really makes no differance one way or another and really does not present any means of unbiased intellectual discussion. It's religion. Politics however is another story.