Why are you a Christian?
 

I'm hoping this hasn't been posted before - I looked and didn't find anything.


I grew up Christian and I went happily along until I started thinking about what the Bible said and what the Church taught and I realized that I didn't believe it and I didn't want to. So I'm wondering if there are any Christians out there who have seriously examined their religion (I don't want any "because the Bible says so") and decided to stay Christian and why you think it is the right path.

Incidently, if any pagans get this far, could you tell me why you are pagan?

Well, I don't know if I consider myself "pagan", though I suppose it may be a technically accurate label. I was raised in a born-again household, with church Sunday morning and Sunday and Wednesday evenings. My parents were divorced when I was very young, so I straddled the Christian and secular worlds between living with my born-again dad (and eventually he married my born-again step-mom) and my non-practicing Seventh-Day Adventist mom. With my dad, I played drums in the church worship services on Sunday mornings, prayed in tongues, was prophesied over, and was only allowed to listen to Christian music. With my mom, I listened to Barry Manilow, Neil Diamond and Billy Joel, and could listen to what I pleased and watch what I wanted on TV, too.

I guess I equivocated throughout my youth, alternately embracing Christianity because I was part of a community where that was the one true way, and embracing secular popular culture and mores when I was away from that community. I went away to high school, a boarding school in northern Michigan--away from my Texas dad and Virginia mom. There I met Christians, Muslims, Jews, Pakistanis, Chinese, Germans, Africans, hippies, gays, transvestites.... I started to determine that life was less about absolute truths than beliefs relative to your upbringing and experience.

A couple of years later, on a foreign exchange year in Germany (the area formerly East Germany), I felt my eyes open to another culture. One devoted to life and love and friendship, and mostly unconcerned with one's particular religion. I realized how similar we all are in heritage and in purpose, and I believe it is particularly inconsiderate and arrogant for any faith to promulgate--on fear of eternal damnation--its tenets on non-believers. Believers should band together and support each other in their pursuit of righteousness; no question about that, and of course they should be free to do so. But the respect and freedom accorded to religion must by necessity and fairness be mirrored onto unbelievers.

The more I see my Christian family value faith over reason, myth over science and bigotry over tolerance, the more confident I become about my own soul and the more despondent over theirs. Of course I respect their religious privelege, and I can't help but respect my dad's unshakeable faith; he is an intelligent and decent man and I love him dearly. And I have at times seen the world through his eyes; it is paradoxically comfortable there. I find it however more challenging living in what I believe to be the world of reality, where the answers to life's persistent questions are explained by experience and science rather than parable and myth. Where I know that the outcome of each decision I make is a consequence I must wholly accept rather than a cosmic lesson I'm yet to understand.

I honestly don't know if there's a god. But the longer I live the more I doubt it. And the more I learn, the more I see how alike we are, and how improbable that just one faction of us has found or been gifted the one true way. It just seems too easy, but more importantly my experiences tell me otherwise.

Great post, maestroxl. I find that I have a similar backround and am in the same boat. But I also find it hard to be purely athiest. I am trying to keep an open mind that there may be a creator out there but if there is what or who created the creator, etc.... What a paradox?

Lately I've come to believe that we are just too ignorant about the workings of our existence to justify latching on to any particular belief system. But I guess that's a belief of sorts in itself, LOL.

seconded. sums up a lot of things that i feel as well.

i'm open minded. I just think it's funny how hardcore bible worshippers don't spend time and money researching it themselves.

Those hardcore bible worshippers are mirrored by hardcore science worshippers. There are a lot of people who take science in a religious context (which I think is a huge mistake) who know very little about it. Hell, it's nearly impossible to be well-versed in science anyways. I don't know of many physicist/biologist/chemists who understand the extensive fundamental aspects of all the fields anyways.

Well I've thought about it and come to the conclusion that I believe in God. The reason I am Christian is because I was brought up that way. To me Muslims, Jews and Christians all worship the same God. I believe in Jesus Christ but the real foundation to my belief is God. I couldn't say that Muslim or Jewish beliefs are wrong because they don't believe that Jesus Christ was the son of God. The fact that I'm Christian come from my upbringing and background but my belief in God is seperate from that, that is decided independently.

I'm a Christian - but I haven't seriously examined my religion to figure out if I should stay a Christian or not.

(This might stray slightly from the topic)
My faith is based on several experiences where I've felt Gods presence, and seen what He can do. I'm not very good at reading the bible or studying christianity - for me, God is real - so why should I doubt it?

I also class myself as a Christian but I suppose that is just down to my upbringing. I have never examined my religion or for that matter tried to explain it (I suppose it is just faith). I also feel that to be a Christian doesn't mean that you have to attend church every Sunday.

God fearing? Yes.

The follower of any organised religion? Absolutely not! The corrupt political history of religion, especially the Christian religion of the European middle-ages is enough to turn my stomach.

The things man does in the name of God? Fuck that!

grew up Christian, left for years. my reconversion was my brain finally getting the picture that i could have a thinking Christianity, and still be Christian. The fundies try to corner the market...and i could never see myself using their terms.

My surprise is that those terms aren't the property of the fundies. Sin is about broken relationship, the same old story of destruction....not the violation of a carefully watched code of laws. Grace is about God's real and wild love for all creation...not some divine lottery. Judgement is about God coming in to our lives and showing us what is broken everyday....not a moment in the future.

I'm lucky to have found worship communities that are theologically grounded, and do a lot of work to show where it is that we draw these ideas. Unlike some faiths i've experimented, it's not a "pick and choose" deal...or an idolitrous worhsip of the self's goals.

It's a fine line...we need ourselves to come to faith honestly, to question and wrestle with it. But we also can't ever tell ourselves we have all the answers...revelation comes from outside of us, and may tell us things that are uncomfortable and unwelcome.

I'm now preparing for ministry...which is a nervous and joyful thing. You could not have surprised me more if you'd told me that 4 years ago.

Well, I grew up in a Roman Catholic household. We went to Church everysunday, and had to sit through CCD. I also went to Catholic middle school and High school. Then I enlisted in the National Guard and started attending college. After seeing some things and seeing the world (most of our annual training, the two weeks a year, takes place in foriegn countries) I have come to believe in divine intervention. I have seen people who have been shot out of helocopters and had their vehicles be destroyed by RPG's and they walk away with minimal injuries. Then I've seen people mangled or killed by an accident in the moterpool doing routine maintenance. I have found that it doesn't matter what you are doing, when your time is up, thats it.

Now after seeing the world and what it has to offer and being extensivley versed in Christianity I chose to stick with it. What I have found most people to disagree with, myself included, are policy issues, not the message. Maybe the way things are done are messed up and maybe some of the things people in the Church say are wrong and some things people have done ARE wrong. But it comes down to treat people decently and expect the same in return. I know you don't have to believe in God or anyone/thing else for that but I found a religion I can live with and thats whats important.

I am Pagan.
I was Raised Catholic,( 15 Years).
I also found the bible(s) to be myth, and was turned off by the "Word of God", reply from my teachers and clergy.
I decided to study Eastern spirituality, and became Buddhist for a time.
After a relatively long journey, I have found the personal spirituality refered to as Pagan, the most accepting of others, and the best direction for growth yet encountered.
Pagans don't generally care what you believe, and you will rarely see someone attempt to "Convert" the unwilling to the path. The Idea is.....when you are ready, you will be welcomed.

Because when I look outside or look into the stars, there's no way you can tell me we came from a dot of matter... and it exploded.. and we got sooo lucky that we were close to a ball of fire and it started raining on the dirt that made some soup... from that soup we evolved into what we are now?

I mean really.. evolution doesn't cut it for me.. you have WAY to many variables to make life from dirt and some rain..

(it's sloppy and full of bad punctuation, but class is over :))

I guess following that thought process is why I believe... and if I'm wrong? I'm dead... if I'm right, I'll go to heaven. I really don't think there's a whole lot to even consider.. at least for me.

This is one of the reasons I am not an atheist. But you can't go from this to Christianity. The word was created by something greater than it but how do we know anything about this creator other than revelation (which I'm not convinced is ever valid)? And of all the religions in the world, why Christianity? Why one God and not many Gods?

I've taken the time to study those aspects of the universe that I am able to comprehend, and have come to the conclusion that there is simply no realistic possibility that a system as complex and organized as ours could possibly be utterly random. Therefore, the universe and its contents are the product of Intelligent Design.

I've seen the power of prayer in action. I've felt the Holy Spirit wash over me. I've seen the Truth of our Creation, and thus I am Christian. For those of you who choose to be offended by that last statement, you should realize that my belief does not manifest itself in a sense of superiority or rightousness when confronted by someone of a different belief system.

Thoughtful debate is why I come here - thanks for a good topic Livia Regina.

I'm a devout agnostic because the more I try to find evidence for either the existance or non-exaistance of God, the more certain I become that there is no answer that we can ever find. I reject organized religion because I see it as little more than a way for certain people to hold power over others.

I've no recollection of ever having a belief in santa, the tooth fairy, god, easter bunny, etc. I suppose I was aware that other people believed in it, but for a while there I guess I thought that the adults just pretended to believe for the sake of their children.

I suppose as charitable as I can be to true believers is that they are still, in some way, children... and need the belief in an authority superior to them to function in the world or have yet to cast aside a few final childish beliefs.

I have a someone less friendly view of people that merely use religion to justify apathy, hate, or to spread an otherwise broken way of life. But if they're happy living that way and not making anyone else unhappy, more power to 'em.

I'm a Christian because I believe in evil. I've tried to put this into words on this forum before, but wasn't successful, so let me try again. We all do bad things; you don't need a concept of sin or anything to admit this. But good and evil aren't like some sort of cosmic balance sheet; you're not a good person just because you've done more good than evil; evil is not so easily expunged from your record. So there needs to be some sort of expiation for our crimes, and that's just what Christianity teaches. In other words, I'm a Christian because Christianity teaches GRACE, and I know I need that.

So you're saying you're a Christian? I hope so, else where would you get an idea like heaven?

I agreee whole heartedly with JusDisGuy's post. I think he and I have a lot in common.

I am a Christian with no denomination, I feel organized religion is not right for me (i used to be a Lutheran but the presecence of an organized synod and politics drove me away) I dont believe its wrong to attend church, it just want for me. Unlike some, I dont like having a candy coated religion, I strongly believe that there is a heaven that people go to when they die, but I also believe in a state of eternal damnation referred to as "hell". To me, the Devil is just as real as God and Jesus, and that the Devil should not be taken lightly. One thing that I did take away from being a Lutheran was the idea that we are saved by God's grace alone. My faith is private, even when I did go to church, I never sang or prayed loudly.


(oh yeah, since somebody else brought it up, I never believed in Santa Clause, but prior to 5yrs old, I was convinced there was an Easter Bunny)

I've met a few Christians without a denomination who did not attend church and I don't quite understand it. Doesn't the Bible imply that there should be a church - Peter being the rock on which Christ builds his church? Or am I defining 'church' differently? I think of a church as being a group of people worshipping together and reading and understanding the Scriptures together - not necessarily organized.

Church comes from Greek ekklesia or something similar meaning a gathering together.
There are two dominant definitions of the word 'church' in Christendom. The first being the building or place of worship, ie., "Grace Bible Church". The second, literal definition is the collective group of Christians. There is the local church, ie, those who gather together on a Sunday in a church building, and there is the universal church, ie, all those who are followers of Christ gathered throughout the world, yet unified in their aim of glorifying God through His Son Christ Jesus, and winning other souls to Christ.

Thanks Daoust. That explains non-denom neatly.

Love the thread.

I consider myself agnostic. My mother is a very devout Christian and my dad is....I really don't know. I think he may believe in God but he doesn't go to church or profess his beliefs openly.

I am very torn in this area. I am (or was) a student of anthropology, which teaches human evolution, with what I consider concrete evidence of the process in which homo sapiens were born. On the other hand, I have recently begun to think that there is some otherworldly influence keeping my family together. My sister was in a terrible car accident several years ago, one in which she probably should not have survived. Her back was crushed in two places, and the fellow who found her carried her out of the car by himself, yet she is alive and has no spinal cord damage at all. My parents were going through the beginning process of a divorce that had my mother all messed up on the head. I honestly think if my sister hadn't survived, she would have committed suicide. A few months ago, my brother committed suicide. He was schizophrenic. My mom has taken it ok though, because she revitalized her faith in God about a year before he died. It just seems so odd to me that had my sister died, I probably wouldn't really have a family to speak of. Coincidence? Perhaps. I really don't know. I guess I am open to the idea of a greater power, just not necessarily God, or the Christian idea of God.

One thing I DO know is that I have a hard time with a lot of organized religion, especially Christianity. So many horrible things have been done "in the name of God" or other gods for that matter, I just can't comprehend it. I am not trying to offend Christians or their faith, this is just a very personal issue with me. I grew up in a very religious area and my life was a living hell because I didn't fit in with the dominant religion, which was a Christian one.

Sorry to get off post, but I guess I had a lot to say. I guess it just boils down to a belief system. There are good people to be found in any religion or belief system, whether it be Christian, Pagan, Jewish, Buddhist, or whatever. And if that belief system comforts them and helps them to be a better person, then it's great in my book. Christianity just doesn't happen to be the one that I believe in.

I'm not sure what I would consider myself. I personally don't care if God exists or not. I believe that I can be a great person on my own, without any kind of external spiritual guidance. I've read a whole smattering of religious texts and gathered what I think are good ideas from all of them, but don't buy into any religion. I'd much rather be free to make my own decisions about the world without being categorized or boxed into any certain way of thinking. Personally, all I care about is leading a fulfilling, complete life, and if I can do that and see my daughter grow up well, that's enough for me. To me, an afterlife is only necessary if you feel the need to continue your existence for whatever reason after you die, and I don't have that desire. :)

Those ideas are not mutually exclusive. Even if you were a devout Christian you could still believe that God created man using evolution. It has always seemed silly to me that people get into huge fights about this.

I agree with you entirely. That's one of the things that bothered me about Christianity - that someone could be a perfectly good and moral person but be damned to hell because they did not believe that Jesus was the son of God. Or, even worse, they didn't believe in Jesus the correct way (being Catholic instead of Protestant or vice versa).

I'm not a student of Christianity by any means, but Catholicism is the only church I know of that says evolution exists, although not in men? Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

This is one of the problems I have too. Is the Dalai Lama not going to heaven because he's not a Christian? What about Ghandi? Anne Frank? Chief Joseph? This is one of the main reasons I've been turned off of organized Christianity. I can't understand how good people who have done good things couldn't go to "heaven".

i can tell you why I'm not cristian, in one word too, hypocrisy, thats what the whole church runs on. I am an athiest (a bit of a nihilist as well) but i wouldnt be suprised if jesus was an actual person, and that he taught what he did, and if so i applaud that and i believe he would have been a great person, but the son of god, i think not. I think it's absurd that the most widely accepted belief in the world is that some dude that doesnt exist, yet exists and is everywhere at the same time and is always judging you. i just dont get why everyone can think that, and even if you believe in god, i dont see why anyone follows the church. my view is that everyone is brainwashed one way or another, the only reason you can believe something so absurd and not be insane is because you were told when you were too little to understand and just believed what you were told.

For me its a feeling, a papable background feeling, that I'm not simply a collection of molecules bumping randomly in such a way as to exhibit characteristics of life, that there is something more than we've been able to study, that God is there. That, and many personal experiences lead me to believe in God.

It's not a bad thing to think for yourself. You probably have alot of legitimate questions, which the Bible does not fully explain. I was in the same situation as a kid, but I started thinking for myself quite a few years ago. Why? How? and other questions like those, can change your whole perspective on something.

I know, but I was raised in a household where Christianity was the Truth and only the degenerate questioned it. It wasn't till I got to college (far away from my parents) that I started questioning what they taught me. I find I enjoy thinking for myself.

Thinking for yourself is not fun. Well to me it isn't. So much freedom don't know what to do, I always end up doing something stupid.

Thinking for yourself may not be fun sometimes, I agree with you klo. It sucks when we can ACTUALLY see alot of the hardships that are in front of us. The decisions get harder and you usually find yourself in a generally shitty situation. But you know what? I wouldn't trade it for the world. Because I can see the superficiality around me in others, and I can see the lack of understanding.

It's really up to the person wether they want to walk around with a blindfold over thier eyes or not. And, Yes, I am going to compare this to The Matrix. What would you rather do... walk unknowingly inside a miserable system of control, or would you rather live free, and by your own parameters? No one said it would be easy, but I take mental freedom.

Hmm.. I have a hard time tryinng to explain what I feel and think so please bear with me....

I was born into a roman catholic family. And being form a country in Latin America where roman catholicism has really deep roots and influence, then I really had no choice than to become a raoman catholic like the rest of the people around me. My parents raised me as a catholic, although i dont consider that I got a good catholic upbringing, mainly cuz my dad doesnt practice the religion, and he doesnt like it, but he does believe in God.

Well anyways, when I was a kid, I never questioned God or religion, and just swallowed everything that was spoon-fed to me. About a year ago, on request of my mom I joined this church group, which is targeted to teenagers. But I was only on it for like 3 months before I moved to go and study abroad. Well anyways, on hindsight, this group brainwashes kids. I can see it with my ex-gf who also joined the group... I mean, they have brainwashed her so much, I mean, she's a completely different person right now. She says she's happy, which is a good thing, but she's so close minded now, so conservative, so fanatical... I dont like that attitude, but at least she's happy.


Now that Im coming out of my teens, and I have been fairly isolated form religious influence, Ive begun seriously questioning everything I've been told. I mean, there are so many things I dont understand, things that over the years poeple have told me for facts, but now that I look back and reason, i dont find a satisfactory answer... For example, if God created everything, why the hell did he create evil? And whats up with the holy trinity, I mean, supposedly there's just one god, but the holy trinity is like 3-in-1 adn they act independently or something... I just dont get it.. I am unwilling to believe everything I've been spoon-fed, which Ive begun to consider as outdated beliefs and rule systems. And I am unwilling to be tied down by these rules that i dont believe in.

My religion (?) desnt make me any better than any other person, nor does it make me any worse, nor Im a worse person if i stop believeing in something.

Oh, and for the record, for now I do believe there is some sort of superior being which created humans, though I doubt that this being is everywhere and watches over us 24/7.

... Just my own personal experience and views...

edit:
Ok I was just talking to my ex, and I tried to get her and explain these things I dont understand. Again she coulnt provide with a satisfactory answer and told me it was a matter of faith. I dont see the point in believing blindly in something (this is the way I see faith as), specially if those beliefs are based on something which some people wrote about thousands of years ago, people which had (and I hope I am not offending anyone) limited knowledge of the world around them and therefore attributed everything to the will of a superior being.

I'm much happer now that I've given myself the freedom to think. I never liked people telling me what I should think because I knew I was always doing it wrong and I thought I'd be damned for it.

As Aleister Crowley once wrote, "The only thing we can say for sure is that there appears to be such a thing as consciousness."
Ultimately, you have to go with what your heart, head and gut indicate to you is the right spiritual path for you. I believe that if you're spiritually awake, then you're not worried about anyone else's beliefs, because it doesn't matter HOW you get there, as long as we're all headed in the same direction.
Whatever God(s) and/or Goddess(es) you choose to worship, whatever name and face you give to the divine consciousness, whatever belief system and rituals you choose, I believe you have to find your own way. By all means, seek guides and teachers if you wish, but you don't have to have them. If you're honest and devoted and willing to do the work of learning about yourself and all that you perceive around you with openness and without judgment, you will succeed in advancing yourself spiritually, whether you're a Christian in church on Sunday, an Indian seeking a vision on a mountaintop, a Muslim making the Haj, a Wiccan casting a circle and invoking the Great Mother, etc. Whatever tools you choose to use will do, provided you do the work. You WILL get there, or at least closer to there. Because we're all ultimately walking in the same direction.
So choose your path. If you find Christianity to be too dogmatic, or Islam too punitive, or Druidism too flaky, or Judaism too restrictive, or WHATEVER....if it doesn't ring true to you, then find another way, a way that does ring true to you. Use your magnificent brain. Trust your intuition and instincts. Read about every religion you can find, expand your horizons. Most people will tell you, if it feels right, it probably is right, and if it doesn't work out, then pick another path. Choose deities and rituals and customs that you find positive towards your own peace of mind and spiritual development. It doesn't matter if you call the divine by God, Goddess, Allah, Jehovah, Yahweh, Wakan Tanka, Great Spirit, Earth Mother, Cernunnos, Inanna, etc., etc. The point is, you're seeking to awaken the divine within YOU - your own unique higher self that is part of the one great universal divine consciousness that is made up of everything in the universe - you, me, your great grandparents, a rosebush, a gazelle, the clouds, and Neptune, etc.
I chose Paganism as my path for its lack of dogma and hypocrisy, its colorfulness, its history, the simple yet universally applicable Threefold Law, which tells me that everything I do will have consequences for me. In other words, you reap what you sow, what goes around comes around, etc. It's a universal principle that everyone accepts as being true. If you truly believe that, you'll make every effort never to cause harm to another unjustly, and to promote positivity. I chose Paganism for its openness, its connectedness to Mother Earth, its fascinating mythologies, its sense of personal responsibility. I don't believe that anyone can die on a cross for me, or pay for my sins. I have to do all that, I have to answer for these things, to myself and to all of you. I don't believe that anyone deserves eternal reward or punishment, I can't see how 100 or less years or goodness or badness can be fairly rewarded or punished by an eternity of bliss or torment. The universe I see seems to operate on balanced principles - for every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction. If I live a selfish, harmful life, then i'll have to pay for it, either in this life or the next. Not all Pagans believe in reincarnation, but I do. Nature renews everything else, why not us? Matter doesn't die, it merely changes form. Energy travels and fluxes, but never ceases to exists. Any Science 101 student knows these things. Why would these rules that apply to all other things not apply to me?
I pray to deities because they serve as symbols, like an alphabet, for accessing and reaching the divine energy essence. It's easier for me to pray to a name and a face and a personality than to try and pray to a nameless invisible energy field. It's easier to talk to Jesus than "Divine Consciousness", because you probably have a mental image of Jesus, a concept of his personality, etc. He seems more REAL to you because of his similiarity to we humans. Similarly, I can more easily tap into the divine by praying to Cernunnos, or Bastet, or Hecate, because with my mind's eye I can visualize them. They seem more REAL to me.
I know this was a long, convoluted post, siblings, and I apologize, but I wanted to try and cover all my personal bases. If you read this far, thanks for listening, hope this helps address the question. Peace to you all, blessed be.....
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Gimme That Old Time Religion - PAGAN FOR LIFE!

Some Christians would indeed condemn these people on the basis that they havne't accepted Jesus Christ and been born again; however, I think that God in his infinite wisdom will judge these with loving wisdom that we cannot comprehend. Many people haven't heard the gospel preached can't make a decision to accept or reject Christ, so will they go to heaven or hell when they die. The correct answer I believe: "Only God knows"

I think JustDisGuy expresses my sentiments exactly. Christians talk about "witness of the spirit" that confirms to each individual they are "saved" It is this feeling of coming into God's presence, though not a constant feeling, that convinces me of His reality. I too have seen the power of prayer in action and think that this power is greatly neglected among Christians.
Lastly, the Bible says in at least one place (and I wish I could remember the verse but don't offhand) that the non-christian can't understand or comprehend God's word and it is foolishness to them.

well, thats what the bible teaches, so either its true, or someone is trying to scare people into believing this stuff, but that never happens in the catholic church because that would be a sin and the church is perfect :rolleyes:

That's the thing,there is too much "God knows,we'll find out".I wanna know answers,and a story about a flood and animals with enough genetic diversity to create a whole species (noah's flood),doesn't give any answers.

The UCC has a position affirming evolution...i'm pretty sure others do too.

A quick google, and i have this.

ELCA, UCC, Anglican, PC USA, Catholic, Methodist.

That's a pretty big chunk of the mainlines.

Personally, i'm baptist, and believe evolution to be the most compelling scientific explanation of how life originated on the planet.

Yes, but. Yes, the bible is clear that we have moral choices, and can be condemned on the basis of those. But. God is a God of grace and mercy. I have rebelled, but fallen short even in that. God's grace has been more than sufficient to bring me back to God. Even as i sin in this life, i am brought again to repentance and to healing mercy. The mercy, the grace has been wilder, freer, and greater than i had ever imagined.

I don't know the fate of souls. But i do know about the mercy, and if it is that mercy that cares for us at our last breath, then we have a whole lot to hope for.

I think that if more Christians concentrated on this and less on "you don't believe Jesus Christ is the son of God so you are going to hell to burn for eternity" then the non-Christians would be more willing to listen and would be less hostile.

I wish I had all the answers, and to say it's a matter of faith isn't good enough either. By saying "God knows" I simply meant that I'm not going to be their judge and I wouldn't know how to judge someone that had never heard the gospel presented to them before. Unfortunately, you're not going to get answers that you can lay your hands on or can be seen or proven by some scientific experiment. Jesus said this to his disciple Thomas in John ch.20: "Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

For me, it started with being "born again" or "getting saved" which is christianese for accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. It seems to me that at that point, then we can except a lot of the harder to understand things as well. My recommendation is that you try talking to God yourself in seeking your answers. You may be surprised in that you start getting answers, although don't expect them to be audible or "Joan of Arcadia" style. :)

I agree 100% and the 3 best reasons to be a christian are mercy, grace and hope; with hope in all areas of my life being the no. 1 reason.

Why am I a Christian?

I agree with a lot of comments on here and would like to add a couple.

First Why do I believe in God

1. The fact that I'm still alive is enough to make me know that there is something out there.

2. While evidence is still being compiled, last I checked the Bible has not been refuted once, nor do I find any errors in it. When was the last time you found a book that could never be disproven? A book that mostly written first hand? A book that has correctly told of things that were to come? (Granted that lies a little in the interpretation, yet I take the Bible as verbatium)

3. Everything in nature is too perfect to be a random coincidence.

Now as for my reasons for believing in Christ . . .

1. If you believe in God, then you alternatively must believe in Satan.

2. If Satan exists, there is a place for damned souls to go, known as hell.

3. Because hell is considered for those who want to lead a rightous life and a blessed afterlife, a place they want nothing to do with, they would prefer to live with God, our creator.

4. We know that only a "Sinless" person can get into heaven, since everyone sins, that would make heaven a lonely place.

5. God told us he was going to send a Messiah, a Saviour as it were, and then this babe in a manger was born named Jesus.

6. According to history, There is evidence that Jesus was a real person and did walk this earth. So to me that starts giving a bit of credibility to the story, and once you understand that Jesus was a real man, you must begin to look at the stories in the New Testament to see if they hold any weight.

7. Christ was born in the exact way that the old testiment required, being born of the lineage of David the King.

8. After prophesizing to his people and these things coming to pass, and performing miracles that weren't possible, feats such as feeding five thousand people with 5 loaves of bread and 2 fishes, making the dead rise, walking on water, healing the sick . . . oh, and the whole resurrection of himself thing, we find that he is more than just a man.

9. When asked who he is, he claimed he was the Son of God, when asked what to do to get into heaven, he answered, Believe in me.

10. Knowing that, and the fact that he bore all of our sins with him on the cross, we can purge our sins through that faith in him.

That pretty much sums it up.

I am Christian because I choose to percieve signs as being in correlation with a higher being. I choose to see mericles - things that are clearly out of the ordinary - as acts of a much higher intelligence. I choose to believe that this higher being instilled morals and compassion in humans, but allowed humans the choice of whether to act out of compassion and moreals or not. I belive that the higher intelligence, God, loves His (or Her) creations, and holds us higher. Proof that He holds us above all else is our creativity, and the gift of compassion and morality. My morals and compassion coincide with the teachings of Jesus. Not the bible, but Jesus is why I am a Christian.

Of course I'm a Buddhist, too. Heh. Buddhist lifestyle with a nonspecific Christian faith.

I am agnostic. I was raised Christian, I think Protestant though I'm not for sure. My parents forced me to go to church and sunday school every sunday, and it was always like pulling teeth with me. Now, I think that since my parents essentially forced something on me that I didn't want anything to do with, I am against it. However, I would like to believe that there is something out there, some higher power, that is omnipotent, omscient, and omnipresent protecting us, but I realize that this is probably unlikely.

Unlike many religions, I believe that all you need is yourself. You have the all the power and ability. You can rely on yourself and your fellow man for whatever you need.

If god truly exists and is all powerful, why does he let bad things happen? Why does he let bad things happen to good people?

BK1017, interesting question. "If god truly exists and is all powerful, why does he let bad things happen? Why does he let bad things happen to good people?" (BTW, I realize you are using this question to show that Gods lack of a direct role makes it less likely that He either exists or cares)

I'll take a shot at that. Let's say you are a good person. Let's say you were raised in a good home with parents who loved you very much. Let's say you always had food on the table and clothes on your back. Let's say your parents instilled good values and morals in you, so you know right from wrong. Let's say you always show compassion and empathy.Let's say you are a good person.

Now take this person, and have him or her born in the South in the 1700s. Let's say they were born on a plantation. Let's say this person was raised to believe that black people are an inferrior species. Let's say this person was raised to hate black people. This person grows up and inherits the plantation and has his slaves beatnen regularly because he thinks it keeps them in mind.

My question is: what makes a good person a good person? Do you mean inate good? Is there even such a thing as inate goodness?

Imagine God did play a direct role in our lives, like He did in the bible. Let's say (I'm just going to keep saying "Let's say", so get used to it) he spoke to people and appeared to people and was a direct presence in our lives. Let's say he showed favor to those who are "good". Let's also say he prevents things like the tsunami. What kind of God would that be? We would all become intirely dependant on Him. We expect Him to save us from reality. The only problem is that isn't love. If God loves us, He will alow us freedom.

Think about how we treat children. In their infancy, we coddle them and keep them completly protected. We know that they do not have the ability to protect themselves, so we protect them. As they get older though, as their ability to deal with life grows, we allow them to be exposed to reality more and more. When children reach adulthood, they are basically released into the world to their own devises. Partents know that if you coddle your children forever, they never learn to deal with reality. God knows that if He coddles us, we'd never learn to live in reality. God made reality the way it is for a reason. We are expected to live our lives in this reality. Bad things happen to good people and bad people alike. It's not God's responsibility to save you from reality, it's your responsibility to live in it and deal with it.

That's not to say that God is completly absent from your life either. The trick for Him is to be present just so much that you think He might be there, but you don't know for sure.

I just sort of elaborated on this in a previous post, but well, to be quite blunt with you all, I have found God in music, and there are a lot of composers, a lot of pieces (this is classical music, not praise band) that are really evident of godly influence. I have many problems with the Christian dogma, but I strongly believe that in composers like Bach, who wrote 52 cantatas (That's about 30 hours of music) that correspond to every Sunday of the Lutheran church year; Handel, who wrote The Messiah in 2 weeks while barely eating or sleeping; William Byrd, who wrote Latin religious pieces when works in that language were banned in England and were punishable by death...the list goes on, but I would consider those three instances the foundation of my Christianity.

I think it's interesting that alot of people have abandoned organized religion because of the crimes commited in it's name, but it's not as common to find people taking the same stance inregards to their nation. I guess it's much easier to renounce religion than to renounce citizenship. Just a thought.

Also, there are a few moments in history where Christianity was used used for good things. The Civil Rights Movement, for example, was deeply rooted in the church.

Christian = Personal relationship with Jesus Christ

How many Christians can say that they have a personal relationship with Jesus?

How many are willing to follow his word through thick and thin?

Can you call yourself Christian if you don't follow Christ's teachings?

There's a tension in Christianity about this; some things in scripture indicate that Christians don't sin, some indicate that they do sin. Since I have pretty good empirical evidence that all Christians sin, my conclusion is that the passages indicating that all Christians do not sin need to be interpreted differently. You talk about this in the context of a 'personal relationship with Jesus Christ'. Fine, but that doesn't mean we don't sin. You have personal relationships, right? Do you never do something wrong to your friends?

I am pagan, and I'll try my best to tell you why. I was born and raised Southern Baptist. I was going along fine, until the hypocrisy of it all struck me. I realized that it was a case of "believe, just in case there is a God, so you don't go to Hell if you're wrong." I realized that I didn't truly believe, that I was just lying to myself and others. I went for a few years where I was agnostic. Meaning, I knew that something existed, but I didn't know what it was. I started looking into Wicca and Paganism in general, about the same time I started looking into several other religions. In Wicca, I found a religion that I can believe in. The great thing about it is that it is so eclectic. You can believe one aspect without believing another aspect, and nobody is going to call you a heathen (except christians). Personally, I strongly believe in Karma. This is otherwise known as the golden rule, except with a little more force behind it. Where the Golden Rule says "Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you", Karma says "I'm going to do unto you worse than you did unto others". This tends to keep you a little more in check, don't you think?

In my opinion, you have to discover your dieties for yourself, so that they really can be yours. Respect those that aren't yours, worship those that are. Eris is my Goddess. All Hail Discordia!

I'll try to sum up my beliefs about dieties, if I can. A long time ago, when people didn't understand their world, they witnessed all of the same types of forces that we see today. Mankind cannot live without understanding, though, we're too curious for that. So, we gave personalities to the forces in our world. These personalities became the early gods and goddesses. It became easier, when talking to others, to say "Artemis", than it was to say "the hunt, childbirth, and archery". Basically, the gods and goddesses manifested from early personifications.

Man made God in his image.

Merry Meet.......and you pretty much summed up my own history as well.
But I was raised Catholic.

i like to think of myself as just plain old me. Labelling myself is pretty hard.
But if i had to, i guess i would say i was an antroposophist, only i dont agree with Steiners teachings on a bunch of things, more generally antroposophy is the closest thing i can come what is my "belief".

Oh, and i probably have to voice my opinion on these religious topics and threads here in the philosophy section, i dont think its aproriate. This is philosophy, not theosophy. Sure, it might be philosophy, but i dont think of it as philosophy once you start talking about the bible, satan, jesus and what not.

Sorry if this seems a little out of place in this thread, but i just felt I needed to put this here, maybe just to add a different perspective to the mix.

Ok, I've never been Christian and will never be Christian. I was raised as a Reform Jew. But now I'm not really that either. I am in the point of my life were I am trying to weigh the different ideas that are out there against my own thoughts and reasoning. So I will try to go through each of the different thought processes seperatly.

First, why I will never be a Christian. Christianity promotes the idea that we are not only not responsible for our own actions, but that others can take responsiblity for our actions and that other people's actions can be held against us. If we "sin" we can be absolved of all responsibility for that sin if we believe in Jesus and ask for forgiveness. Second, Jesus took responsibility for or "sins" upon himself. Lastly, we are held responsible for the original sin and are born in sin, two actions that we have nothing to do with. So I refuse to believe in a God that will hold other people actions and vices against me, if I'm gonna burn in hell for all eternity, I want it to be for something I did, not what others did.

Second, why I'm not really a Jew any more. This deals with a lot of the reasons that I don't really believe in a higher power right now. First is the size and complexity of the universe, if it was created just for us, then why have stars and galaxies that we cannot even see without massive radio telescopes? What is the point in having all that extra stuff out there that we're never going to reach? Next reason is just statistics, most people who say that the odds are so large against it happening that it couldn't, don't really understand how statistics work. Statistics are just a guideline, not a set rule, just because something has a one to a billion chance against it happening does not mean it can't happen or that it has to not happen a billion times before it happens, it could happen five times in a row. So I don't believe that a 250,000,000,000 to 1 against, statistic as meaning that life couldn't have happened just by chance, it just means that the majority of other planets in the universe aren't going to have life.

So if the universe wasn't created just for us, and there are numerous other species in the universe, then that rules out most of the major religions right there.

Now, for the reason that I'm having a dilemma, I just have a feeling that there is something(s) out there, I just can't decide whether I believe in one god/ddess, multiple gods/ddesses, or an energy field, or a cosmic balance sheet with 300% interest on debts. It is probably just a feeling that was instilled in me because I was raised with religion in my life, or it could be that/those deity/deities reaching out and letting me know, "Hey, we're here. Don't worry". I just wish that he/she/they would own up and let me know what is right, otherwise I'm likely to just say screw it all, I'll worry about it when I'm dead.

Theology is a branch of philosophy.

While i respect your observations, i do ask that you keep in mind that this describes some of the problems with a subset of Christian theology. Not only are there major theologies that do not include atonement, but there are also atonement theologies that do not promote ideas of original sin. I assume that's what you're talking about when you say that other people's mistakes are held against you?

Just as example, my theology sees the Cross not as Jesus taking on the guilt or wrath to save, but rather to subject God's self to the violence of human systems. In the ressurection, God proclaims forgiveness, and offers a radical reconciliation that overcomes our efforts of violence. We're all complicit in systems that exclude, and create inequity...but we are continually offered a chance to begin a relationship with God and bring about change in our lives.

Why was the resurrection necessary then? God could have proclaimed forgiveness at any point unless some sort of restitution for man's sins was required. It was my understanding that this is why Jesus had to die for man's sins.

the Cross is the moment where our worst impulses towards violence....to use the state to keep order before justice...and the love of God meet.

if a giant booming voice comes down, and says "you're forgiven" it's not going to change much. i don't think we would have had any idea how serious the situation was, or how deeply God desires to rebuild God's relationship with us.

to show humankind the gravity of the situation, God subjected God's self to our violence. and in rising from death, God showed the fundamental emptiness of that violence. it does not solve problems. it does not create justice. it targets the innocent right along with the guitly.

but instead of wrath, or separation...what violence hopes to accomplish, God proclaims forgiveness. the atonement folks say, that if God just forgave everyone, it would be cheap...that it would make sin mean nothing. A being that is all powerful, but that is not offended by the acts of depraved violence that we as a species are wont to do is dangerously amoral. i agree...but where i disagree is that the way out isn't God taking divine wrath in our stead. it's God showing up in our lives, and when we chose to direct violence at God, God accepts it. but where we think the violence will remove what we aren't comfortable with...the call to accountability, the call to justice, the call to radical relationship, the call to give up privildge, the call to the kingdom of God...it doesn't. The ressurection is the denial of what we think is a natural consequence. God's power to love outshines our power to destroy.

We now know what happens. Now we have a choice. Do we believe in destruction? Or do we believe in love?

Good thread Livia Regina. I saw this after I saw tecoyah's thread about who was Pagan. I was born and raised Catholic by my grandmother. My parents had various reasons that I shouldn't be raised as such. My grandmother's death was painful as anyones' is with cancer. Her death alone wasn't what made me question my faith and I don't think they need to be posted. But ask if you are curious.

Her death made mequestion my faith... I dropped being a good Catholic boy. I am not an atheist punk that preaches [haha pun intended] "God doesn't exist" because I know that he does. I simply do not let that affect me. Whether or not He exists does not have implications on my life.

However like some agnostics I tried to find the proof for myself that any one god exists or doesn't exist. I opened up to the other religions practiced in my community, emmersed myself in the beliefs of other faiths and life styles. The smart ass that I am, I box OTHER on applications for religions and put "Polytheistic Agnostic."

I am though very serious about this characterization. I am polytheistic, I believe in various parts of different religions. I know that there is no evidence and I disbelieve in the possibility of such evidence that proves or disproves the existance or validity of any God or religion. How can one be any better than another? Many people have faith in this one, why is it more powerful than another?

And what would practicing any religion do to change me? Not praising god does not change the fact that I am a good moral person, I always try to be patient with anyone and everyone, I keep myself honest with those around me, and most of all I help those that ask it. "Have you a mind to speak, I have an ear to listen." I won't let a force that has no presence in this life to change me to occupy my mind--He [God] affects me none.

Out of all the religions I have "sampled" (I have yet to find someone in my town that is Buddhist for I think I might agree with that one, the whole enlightened state deal is what I already trying to find for myself*) so far Pagan's have to be the coolest people. I don't know what it is about you [Pagans] your religion is in the #1 spot on my list.

*The reason I think that Buddhism is for me is because I believe that everyone has the power to become more than what they are. I think that humans should put more faith into themselves before some nondescript unseen being. Have faith in yourself before giving it away to something that may not even exist.
We have potential beyond anything we can imagine. I believe that anyone is capable of anything. And I make an effort each day to either accomplish something that I once couldn't do or thought was impossible for me to do. So each day, I try to learn something new or help someone else "become more than what they are." I am the optimist here that believes you can do it if you believe in it.

Most of my family is Catholic. But my mother and father is Baptist. I was raised a Baptist.

I have from time to time questioned my religion. And each time the answer only brought me closer to my heavenly father