i refuse to believe in karma...that would mean i am not in complete control of my life...

You really think that your actions and your actions _alone_ are the only factors that have an influence on the course of your life?

I humbly beg to differ, Sir. (or Madam, or both)

Which Buddhism are you referring to? The "new age" Buddhism is all we hear about in the West, or the Yin/Yang Buddism. Those are very far from the real belief system. I would be interested in reading more about that particular translation, so if you have a link with more info on this whole "pain to reach enlightenment" please post. :)

to some extent, yes.

Well, when i said hurt, perhaps that's going a bit far, but is conceivable from what i've read (mostly Alan Watts' 'Zen' stuff with a liberal dose Suzuki, i'm not a member of a sangha... The only one's around me are far too keen to mention monthly fees and such in the initial conversations... though that could be because i'm an english speaker in a foreign land). There are plenty of tales that i've read depicting scenes of cruelty to animals and the like in the name of expediting the progress of others down the path.

IANAE

check your pm b/c we seem to be getting off topic :cool:

This thread is truly a showcase of people's skewed views as to what karma really is. "Cause and effect" seems to be the popular and incorrect idea as to what karma is. I can see how people contrive this notion, but I assure you that there is a lot more spiritual and even psychological drive behind the concept of karma than you people are bothering to give it. The true ideas behind karma require a good amount of reading as opposed to a 2-minute description that you heard in a movie or on a television program.

I must also mention that Buddhism is not a "faith" as one person called it, as it is not a faith-based religion.

** end rant **

Anyway, I strongly believe in karma. Even the stricter believers are changing their ideas about karma in relation to reincarnation these days. As such, I can safely make that primary statement.

If you believe in any spirituality or even psychology, then your beliefs are likely to compliment karma.

Sorry, that post was rather pretentious and self-righteous. All apologies. I will leave it there for informational purposes.

Antagony, thanks.
I read it and studied it.

After decades of living and thinking I've decided to refer to it as cause and effect - cosmic cause and effect if you prefer.

Apologies accepted.
Try not to make assumptions about our knowledge.
We have some pretty smart and educated people here.
Thanks.

I believe that Karma, in it's concept is real.
I believe that because I do what I believe is rite, I live with myself quite happily. Inversely, those "bad" people, weather or not bad things happen to them, can not live with themselves, nor enjoy the best parts of life, knowing they have done "bad".
As I go through life, knowing I wish no harm, or unhappiness, on anyone. I have a lightness to my 'soul' (for lack of a better term).
If you make every decision/judgement based on how it will make you feel, both at the time, and upon reflection, later when you're gathering your thoughts. (what you put out, you get back) You are living the principal of Karma, as I understand it.
Those who act in a way that makes their reflection something they don't like to see, Well, they get what they deserve every time they look in the morror don't they.

I practice a system of belief that involves the concept of karma under another name. Sometimes I don't like it, and I don't really like what it suggests, but I think that karma, for whatever reason, is a real phenomenon.

Karma is the incessant pushing toward what you believe you deserve....it is also the desire to create a world in which everything you know is always the same.

smegal, could you possibly expand on that? It sounds interesting.

well i can say this Karma is hindi for "action" and "dharma" is hindi for good or aprropriate action and "rhama" is hindi for bad action ( i think i got rhama right i could be wrong) however the idea is that all action puts out a sort of energy and since we all share the universe you are creating the energy that will be put on you. So you have to liberate your mind from western thinking and dont add it up on a point system to get a good understanding for the true meaning. (the part about true meaning is my deduction all else is pure fact)

In the Eastern, religious sense? Not so much (I don't adhere to those systems of beliefs).

Seeing as the discussion has taken a "what goes around comes around" stance, I guess (you reap what you sow).

I really don't see it as a 'spiritual' thing, other than the fact that I do what I know will make my 'spirit', or 'ghost in the machine' happy. After all it's me I have to answer to. (see in the mirror, deal with in the minutes before sleep each night.)

Right. And when I originally posted, this was my view. However, I also like reading the other, more studied replies that many have made.

Anyone have an example of what they believe was karma in action? Positive or negitive energy that you put out into the world that somehow came back to you?

Mind is the forerunner of all actions.
All deeds are led by mind.
If one speaks or acts with a corrupt mind,
Dukkha follows,
As the wheel follows the hoof of an ox pulling a cart.

To understand Karma and its effects you need to add a few more words to your mental dictionary. Sukkha (good, what you want) and Dukkha (bad, what is to be eliminated).
(Both are from Indian Sanskrit texts)

As the ideology goes, dukkha results when you do "bad" deeds. You feel bad when you take advantage of someone, for example. That feeling is the result of "bad karma".

You murder someone, and you fear for your own life and what the police will do you for the act. That is karma.

If you are looking at Karma in ways that "Karma is true if and only if I hit someone with a rock and then later I get hit with a rock, " then that is the incorrect way to approach it. (Again, Hinduism and Buddhism have a great and wonderful connection with the cosmos. It is almost as if they are science with mythology mixed in for good measure.)

For example, you cannot prove (qualitatively) gravity exists...and as Dr. Einstein showed with his work in Relativity that gravity is not real. But we feel it and it's dukkha (or sukkha; whichever way you want to look at it)

simple_min it seams you have a good understanding of this but i think we can only exsplain Karma so much until the old zen buddist saying regarding budism comes into play "if you are exsplaining it you arn't getting it" its one of those things that exsperince can show us but it still seams logical when you really think about it.

furthermore people must relise that death is by no means a punishment and that Karma dose not punish you any more than drowning is a punishment from water its just the way it works.

(censored)

my beliefs are similar and for the most part i'd consider it some sort of karma, so yea. i'll just say i believe in balance

As an aside: Stiltzkin, don't assign too much authority to NASA engineers. After all, a simple measurement conversion error (feet to metres) sent one of the probes hurtling into Mar's atmosphere. Hate to have my hazy future ignite due to a simple rounding error.

But back to karma ;)

It is my Perception , and thus reality as I see it. that I controle the vast majority of my life. Weather or not science can predict it, is not relevent to my Perception of it. Even if it's an illusion, I believe that my actions/inactions determine how my day/life will go. And so, MY PERCEPTION of Karma is that, when I act in such a way as to make myself happy (doing good as I see it) I am determining how I will feel, and what I will do. I don't see Karma as making a "deal" (good for good/bad for bad). I see it as making a plan. (I will act/decide in this way so I will be happier) I make this plan knowing how I felt about previous decisions. Not in the hope that I will be happy, nor the hope that good will come back to me, nor that the plan made for me, will go well.

Do karma truely exist? Its frustrating..My girlfriend is still trumatised and reeling with nightmares after two years...after she was raped.And this man is still living happily ever after with new girls to bed.



shrugs..tell me if the good always triumph the evil?
regards,
http://www.angelza.com/doll9logo.jpg

For those of you who are knowledgeable about karma, do me a favour; ‘enlighten’ me about something. Assuming the psyche and spirituality are pivotal elements of karma, am I out of line in saying animals cannot commit ‘good’ or ‘bad’ actions and therefore would not be subject to karma? If so, is karma affected by a human’s actions’ results, or the intentions behind the actions?

Likely if such a thing effects our lives at all, it is the creation of our minds in the first place, Thus exclusive to Humanity. Some believe in the world of Karma there is no good or bad, black and white at all, but instead actions simply "Are", and play along a similar path to thermaldynamics.....For every action...etc.
Intentions seem to be the underlying confusion in all Karmic discussion, as they are the undefined...the "Human" part of this belief. "I didn't intend to run over Sallys Dog, but I couldn't stop the car in time". Is this giving me negative Karma?.......who knows, and seriously, What can you do about it.

If the belief in Karma guides people to be kinder and more compassionate, I'm all for it.....if only because Dogma certainly isn't doing it for them.

I definitely feel that karma is a decent description of what goes on... ready for a silly example? You can laugh, but I've seen its effects often....

When I commute to and from Queens to Manhattan, it's not fun. The trains are crowded, people are pissy, the buses can be slow... but I always try to approach things calmly. I can't control if the train is delayed, or crowded, I can only control my reactions to such things. If I see someone struggling with a stroller, I almost always stop to help them get up/down the stairs, even if it means missing my train. Why not? Unless I'm going to be actually late, which I try not to do as it would affect others negatively (not cool to be late!).

And I find that when I take things in stride, and don't "rail against the inhumanity of it all"... things go so much more smoothly. The bus that's not always available when I get off the train, is magically there most days that I help someone. The train comes right when I need it. Yes, I know things feel more smooth just by being calmer, but still!

So there you go. Karma in everyday life. :thumbsup:

I believe karma is a useful idea to help us think more about what we do.

Me and my girlfriend have Karma together, we turn it into a joke but it's quite funny at times.

ie: she txts me off a phone that I don't reply to, as she has 2 and the 2nd one allows me to txt for free. Whenever I get a little angry I normally forget to change the destination from the phone number she's sent off to her other phone.

she replys with "Karma :D?"

In my view, Karma is most relevant to the decision-making process. It's down to what choices you have made and will make.

In that sense, the Anima is uninvolved because it is UNABLE to make choices. Only to the extent that animals are able to choose are they karmically self-directed...