Oranges - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Eldaire · 11-12-2003, 06:30 PM

Okay, the philosophy on this thread is good, however, flawed. In the case of color, color is measurable. For instance, orange occurs when light has hit the orange and bounced off. This light can then have its wavelength measured and that particular wavelength is scientifically labeled as orange. However, I do agree that in your eyes this could appear as green, but you would call it orange anyway so it's good philosophy.

cliche · 11-13-2003, 07:31 AM

Eldaire - colour is not measurable. Wavelength, yes. Mixture of wavelengths, yes. But colour - no. Your wavelength example hits a flaw with - for example - a television. The TV shows a picture of an orange. I can see it from the other side of the room; it's orange. But your "wavelength detector" can only detect the outputs of the three primary colours produced by the TV. There's no orange wavelength there (as there might be were there a real orange); just a mixture of red, blue, green which fools our eyes into seeing orange.

If you want to say the TV orange "isn't really orange" then substitute any two things which have the same subjective colour, but have different sets of wavelengths.

The ideas of "is object X the same colour as object Y" suggests that colours are much more about us than the objects themselves - a dichromat ("colour-blind" person) can't make some of the distinctions we do; there are people (anomalous trichromats) who have a slightly different red sensitivity, who will make different distinctions to the rest of us; and there are even people (women, as mentioned earlier) who have both types of red sensitivity and are capable of making more distinctions than anyone else! Animals also have different sensitivities: different ranges, and there are some birds use 4 or more colours to see...

Complicated, huh?

meembo · 11-13-2003, 12:34 PM

there isn't a color in the dark. An orange isn't "orange" in the light to a sightless person, either.

MSD · 11-14-2003, 02:59 PM

Color is a property of a material that determines which wavelengths of light will be present in the spectrum of light reflected off of that material. Lack of light to be reflected doesn't alter that property.

meembo · 11-14-2003, 03:37 PM

Color is many things, not just a wavelength. Does color exist to a color-blind person? Color vis a vis wavelength is meaningless to that person

11-13-2003, 07:31 AM	#42 (permalink)
cliche Rookie Location: Oxford, UK	Eldaire - colour is not measurable. Wavelength, yes. Mixture of wavelengths, yes. But colour - no. Your wavelength example hits a flaw with - for example - a television. The TV shows a picture of an orange. I can see it from the other side of the room; it's orange. But your "wavelength detector" can only detect the outputs of the three primary colours produced by the TV. There's no orange wavelength there (as there might be were there a real orange); just a mixture of red, blue, green which fools our eyes into seeing orange. If you want to say the TV orange "isn't really orange" then substitute any two things which have the same subjective colour, but have different sets of wavelengths. The ideas of "is object X the same colour as object Y" suggests that colours are much more about us than the objects themselves - a dichromat ("colour-blind" person) can't make some of the distinctions we do; there are people (anomalous trichromats) who have a slightly different red sensitivity, who will make different distinctions to the rest of us; and there are even people (women, as mentioned earlier) who have both types of red sensitivity and are capable of making more distinctions than anyone else! Animals also have different sensitivities: different ranges, and there are some birds use 4 or more colours to see... Complicated, huh? __________________ I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones. -- John Cage (1912 - 1992)

11-13-2003, 12:34 PM	#43 (permalink)
meembo Junkie Location: Connecticut	there isn't a color in the dark. An orange isn't "orange" in the light to a sightless person, either. __________________ less I say, smarter I am

11-14-2003, 03:37 PM	#45 (permalink)
meembo Junkie Location: Connecticut	Color is many things, not just a wavelength. Does color exist to a color-blind person? Color vis a vis wavelength is meaningless to that person __________________ less I say, smarter I am

11-12-2003, 06:30 PM	#41 (permalink)
Eldaire Loser Location: Davidson College, NC	Okay, the philosophy on this thread is good, however, flawed. In the case of color, color is measurable. For instance, orange occurs when light has hit the orange and bounced off. This light can then have its wavelength measured and that particular wavelength is scientifically labeled as orange. However, I do agree that in your eyes this could appear as green, but you would call it orange anyway so it's good philosophy.

11-14-2003, 02:59 PM	#44 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	Color is a property of a material that determines which wavelengths of light will be present in the spectrum of light reflected off of that material. Lack of light to be reflected doesn't alter that property.