Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community (https://thetfp.com/tfp/)
-   Tilted Philosophy (https://thetfp.com/tfp/tilted-philosophy/)
-   -   How much credit can you really take for your situation? (https://thetfp.com/tfp/tilted-philosophy/153958-how-much-credit-can-you-really-take-your-situation.html)

Cernunnos 05-26-2010 01:03 AM

I tend to shy away from discussions that address the concept of rights, any sort of universal morality, or what one deserves. I consider these to be social constructs entirely dependent on the existence of other human beings in groups.

Rights originated as a necessity of law for relative peace and unity to be maintained within the group, common morality functions strictly as a deterrent against those who would otherwise infringe upon the artificial rights of others, and what one deserves is functionally related to the perceived quality and quantity of resources expended.

I would also be negligent if I were not to point out that you've dissected your traits and how they were undetermined by you, so you as an individual are undeserving, yet your identity as an individual and the object of inquiry remains unexplained. What are you, that can be deserving or undeserving of your success? You aren't some third person observer and judge; credit is what others grant, in their opinion. The summation of biology and experience is what you are, I would say. Refuse to consider yourself as an individual, only a collection of cells that produces an effect which perceives the sensation of false autonomy (individuality). Social constructs such as rights, morality, and deservedness dissolve into unintelligible nonsense. Accept who you are, which includes all of your biology and experiences, as well as those shunned traits, and follow your own wishes without feeling guilt over or antipathy towards your success.

Ourcrazymodern? 05-26-2010 07:36 AM

Well put. So the credit you can take is what you're willing to own?

Cernunnos 06-06-2010 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ourcrazymodern? (Post 2792448)
Well put. So the credit you can take is what you're willing to own?

The credit is yours, regardless of whether or not you accept it. The concept of deserved credit, however, should not factor into one's sense of worth as it relates to successes or failures during life. You, as an individual, performed as your biology and mental state (arrived at through prior experiences) dictated, but here's the hard truth; those two qualities are a part of the individual and can't be separated from him or her when judging worth, which negates the entire reason for the concept. The author of this thread seemed to conceive of himself as a disembodied third party, examining himself from a position without the influence of biology or mental states, but the truth of the matter is inescapable; those qualities are essential to who you are; they are you.

"I did nothing to earn my talents- they are extension of things I was either born with or acquired during my upbringing, namely intelligence, stubbornness, pragmatism, idealism, a complete disregard for a good night's sleep, etc. I didn't choose to be good at math."

His talents, things he was born with or acquired, what he didn't choose. He is what the world has made, and in some small way, the world is what he will make. The man that typed the original message, filtherton, will endure what befalls him merely through his continued existence, and deservedness is only what others will apply to him along his journey. He is free to act as he wills, knowing that what he wills is the result of his biology and mental states, and that effectively is him. He is not the result of those factors, those factors are his essence as a being.

The failure to accept one's whole self is a fatal oversight of philosophers throughout history, and it gained traction through the belief in an immaterial soul or its equivalent that is independent of human thought or experience. For whatever reason, folks still cling to it, as though in a fugue; it is difficult to accept that past experience and biology aren't somehow foreign causes involuntarily forced upon the 'pure' and independent individual. Free will is an unfortunate casualty; everyone is free, they just aren't accepting certain parts of themselves that contribute to decisions, pushing away instead of embracing the factors that shaped them, that are them, namely biology and past experience.

Edit: The whole dilemma reminds me of a dog chasing its tail. He could pause for a moment and realize that the tail is actually a part of him, but he only resolves the truth after managing to capture the furry thing. Unfortunately for us, our identity isn't a physical object to be captured with our teeth, so we're endlessly performing mental 360 degree rotations in search of the elusive and supposedly free will. The tail is our body and mind, biology and past experience, and the current mental state resulting in the upcoming decision that we're fretting over (is it or isn't it free?); it is the summation of our existence as a distinct individual.

filtherton 06-07-2010 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cernunnos (Post 2792351)
I tend to shy away from discussions that address the concept of rights, any sort of universal morality, or what one deserves. I consider these to be social constructs entirely dependent on the existence of other human beings in groups.

Rights originated as a necessity of law for relative peace and unity to be maintained within the group, common morality functions strictly as a deterrent against those who would otherwise infringe upon the artificial rights of others, and what one deserves is functionally related to the perceived quality and quantity of resources expended.

I would also be negligent if I were not to point out that you've dissected your traits and how they were undetermined by you, so you as an individual are undeserving, yet your identity as an individual and the object of inquiry remains unexplained. What are you, that can be deserving or undeserving of your success? You aren't some third person observer and judge; credit is what others grant, in their opinion. The summation of biology and experience is what you are, I would say. Refuse to consider yourself as an individual, only a collection of cells that produces an effect which perceives the sensation of false autonomy (individuality). Social constructs such as rights, morality, and deservedness dissolve into unintelligible nonsense. Accept who you are, which includes all of your biology and experiences, as well as those shunned traits, and follow your own wishes without feeling guilt over or antipathy towards your success.

I haven't mentally separated myself from my traits. In fact, it is the very things that make up me that allow me to ask the question in the OP. I am fully willing to embrace the idea that we're all merely the result of a very long, random, complex, iterative, multiscale process. I don't feel guilty about my successes to date and have embraced the traits I deemed worthwhile and tried to alter or mitigate the effects of the traits I've deemed detrimental.

I fully intend to enjoy whatever success I've achieved. I just don't plan on building a shrine to myself.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:43 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
© 2002-2012 Tilted Forum Project


1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360