Red Pill or Blue Pill?
 

Just a hypothetical situation, a spin on Cypher's dilemma in The Matrix

You are a devote religious person, and you come across an undeniable proof that God doesn't exist. Your life is undoubtedly in turmoil. All your hopes of life everlasting in bliss, and eternal damnation for those undeserving has being irreparably destroyed. You become incredibly depressed with this new view of life.
But then you are given a choice. Your mind can be wiped clean of this information. You can return to living your happy life, never knowing the truth. You will probably even end up with a better quality of life, without having a huge gaping hole, that God once filled. Or you can decide that ultimately truth is more important that happiness, and keep your new life.

So what's it going to be? The Red pill of truth, or the Blue pill of Contentment?

Disclaimer: This is a hypothetical situation, nothing more. I'm not wanting to start a debate over the evidence for or against the existence of God. Rather I am looking for people's opinion on self delusion.

If I was in that situation, a devout Christian with God being a major part of my life and all, I would personally choose a content life. What is life if you can't live it happily?

"A comfortable falsehood will always win out over an uncomfortable truth." (Get back to you later with who said it....)

I'd take the red pill. I might regret every minute of it later on. But I'd have to take it. It's my nature.

I'm gonna go with the blue pill. I do know the truth. I agree with Agent Smith. Humanity is a disease. It sickens me. Emotion is a disease. Compassion. Gross. I would rather be content. Like Cypher said, ignorance is bliss. I'd rather not know about all this shit that surrounds me (ie people in pods of slime:lol: ). I'd rather be happy without a care about human scum. But I digress. Read Johnny the Homicidal Maniac a few times to know what i mean.

I agree with this. I would rather know the truth.

red pill.

I'm no one's battery, at least not willingly.

Worst case, I would rather be dead.

blue pill all the way. hell, if i had a choice, i'd probably have a good case of down syndrom...some of the happiest people i've ever met are people with down syndrome. They don't have a care in the world. The only downside to that would be the lack of having my own family. But yeah, i'm all about living a happy life. In the end, does it really matter what you knew or didn't know?

Blue pill all the way, I'll take happiness over truth any day (if the two are mutually exclusive, which this poll implies)

Honest to a fault myself,
I would always rather know the truth.

I'd rather know the truth--- if you know the truth you can try to do something about it.

Red Pill. Then with that truth in hand I can proceed to change the world............

I want to know. Always.

How can one fix something, if they are sleeping

I've always wanted to be given a red pill in regards to God. Then if I knew he existed, I would know that my strivings against sin were not in vain and I could continue pressing on. If he doesn't exist, well there's no sense left to being a good person so why don't I just go out and enjoy myself? Contentment would come from knowing the truth, not from continually living in a mystery.

CSfilm

It really isn't fair to change the original question after so many people (myself included) answered your first poll and question.

What!? I didn't change the question. If you are refering to the Last edited by CSflim on 06-30-2003 at 01:05 AM I did that to fix a spelling mistake. The question was always the same. What do you think the question used to say?

Judging from your first post, I would guess that you didn't read the question, and just read the title and first line, and thought I was asking a question directly relating to the Matrix. I was simply using the matrix as an analogy, as I feel that there are some similarities there.

But I agree with you, it is unfair to change a question, but I am innocent of that at least! Feel free to post a new answer to the question, I can't change the votes though, only a mod can do that.

Your strivings against 'sin' are not in vain in either case.

Western religion tends to foster this game show image of you 'getting whats in the box where Jane is standing'.

You are not living a devout or diciplined life to get a prize. The reward is fostering positive energy for our world. While you may loose site of it, you are improving the world for all of us.

I see believing that some bliss exists beyound our current reality set, as a good thing. We look to our faith to see us through difficulties, when we tend to question such things.

:)

You should always eat the red ones last.

(Hmmm.. it just occured to me that only Canadians and possibly Europeans will get that. Mmmm... smarties).

My appologies.

I picked the wrong week to give up sniffing glue...

Knowing myself, I'd probably go "FUCK YOU" amd swallow both.

what about the content atheist who comes across proof that there IS a god? I'd feel like a creepy neighbor was always looking in my window but I'd still rather know the truth. Ignorance is bliss, but I've never been satisfied with bliss.

I have often thought about that. The conclusion I have come up with is that if there is a God he will accept that he gave me the ability to think and the power to reason. He will know that it is his doing that caused me to doubt and seek factual knowledge. With the brain he has given me how without proof could I believe in such a thing? He will understand where he flawed and admit me to eternal happiness. If not...I will try again next time. :)

Truth. It would shatter my current outlook, but I MUST know.

I am a red pill type, but I'll always envy the blue pillers who don't have to know about all the crap in the world.

happiness in my mind is much better than truth, though this may/will change.

Envy may be a strong word, but I feel much the same. I'd like to believe I'd be living the same life, tho

red pill, without a doubt. Its just the kinda person that i am, i would jump headlong into that, without really considering it.

I hate to say it but "ignorance is bliss". I would rather not know and live a life of happiness than know and live a life of resentment.

Why thank you jlickx! Your name may be inpronounceable, but your words really were a comfort ;)

Ahh, Airplane... Man that movie was good!

Oh, and I'll take the red pill with a nice quiche, please.

Red pill, without a doubt.

being inside the matrix is a better life than outside...

i'd probably take the blue pill.

Red Pill. Truth is important.

it has forever been my belief that religion has the purpose of helping people better their lives, and the lives of those around them. With this view, who cares if your religion is false? If living under your religious views helps you and the people around you then continue believing even if you doubt there is a god.

I am agnostic at my current age, but i have no problem w/ other peoples religions.

red pill.

All my life it's always the red pill.

The red pill IS life.

I would take the red pill, you can always adapt to knowing a god does/doesn't exist and that depression will eventually turn into a good life experience.

i'd eat both at once and control both realities simutaneously

red pill for truth.
If i was the that fucked up from the gaping whole left in my life, i could always take more drugs to fill that. Although the truth is too important.

It's not a choice to me. Without the truth, I cannot possibly be content.

To this I would respond, how can one possibly be content without knowing the truth?

I am a firm believer that one's purpose in life is to experience, to be experienced. If the world surrounding you is an empty reality, what does that say about your relation to it? Or you, yourself?

Living in ignorance is a practice many choose to accept each day, whether turning their head away from the starving on the street corner or changing the channel when confronted with the less fortunate of a geographically distant location. It is also, unfortunately, a very sheltered existence whose emptiness is made that much clearer through the means of awareness on both personal and social levels. An awareness that is typically discouraged by most common social structures as a nuissance; merely an annoyance designed to distract you from TRL.

To know your world is to experience it. To avoid that knowledge is to merely reside within it.

And you know who else merely resides? Cockroaches.

Funny how that works.

red pill

i must know

i would eat morpheus. take a bite right out of him...

No matter how painful, embarrassing or uncomfortable, the red pill and truth every time

If nothing else i'd be :crazy: if i didnt want THE Truth............... Justice, and The American Way.

Tough call. I'm normally for the red pill. In this senario, however, I'd go with the blue pill. If the case were reversed and I found that was something else out there (no matter how life shattering it may be) I'd live with it. But to find out that there is nothing? No, thanks. I'd rather live in my blissful illusion.

"Ady also warned of the danger that 'the Nations [will] perish for lack of knowledge.' Avoidable human misery is more often caused not so much by stupidity as by ignorance, particularly our ignorance about ourselves." - The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark (Carl Sagan, 1996)

But... then again...

"... where ignorance is bliss, 'Tis folly to be wise" - Thomas Grey ("The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark" by Carl Sagan)

Or does it make more sense to think that...

"It is morally as bad not to care whether a thing is true or not, so long long as it makes you feel good, as it is not to care how you got your money as long as you have it." - Circle of the Seasons, the Journal of a Naturalist's Year (Edwin Way Teale, 1954)

But whichever the case...

"...it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. Which gives us more leverage on our future? And if out naïve self-confidence is a little undermined in the process, is that altogether such a loss? Is there not cause to welcome it as a maturing and character-building experience?" - The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark (Carl Sagan, 1996)

I also read some British article many years ago, very long article that I really wish I could find. The gist of it-- as I recall-- was this:

Say you buy a new game. The game presents you with a screen that has two buttons, like so:
http://www.imgmag.org/images/stiltzkin/game.gif

Of course, you want to win, right? So you click the "win" button and a congratulations screen pops up and praises you for how wonderful you are. I mean, that's what you wanted, right? To win? But it doesn't feel that great, does it? What's missing is the struggle. The gist of this article that I read was about struggle. It basically took a positive view on struggle and the purpose of its existence. By the way, if anyone has seen this article or knows where to find it, or has at least read something similar, I'd really like to know. I was too young when I first read that article to really care about keeping track of it. I was old enough to understand the merits of its content, just not smart enough to make a copy of it...

But what is pleasure without pain? What is sweet without sour? Do you really want to live a life of nothing but bliss? I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed it, but in the movie "The Fifth Element" this issue is briefly addressed. In the scene with Immanuel Zorg and the priest Cornelius, Zorg drops a glass onto the floor and several small robots come out and start cleaning it up. He mentions that chaos bring order, or something like that. Destruction incurs reconstruction. Struggle essentially provides purpose. What happens to all the cops when crime suddenly stops? What if all arson ceases and desists-- what will firemen do (and firewomen, too :)) How about government and laws? What if everyone started behaving and being nice to eachother and started sharing? Hell, we wouldn't even need an economy anymore! :)

As such, I think I'd prefer the truth. I like struggle-- it brings purpose to my moogley existence. Red pill for me, please.

:thumbsup:

well, this is a problem. at the point in the movie where Neo takes the pill, I definitely would have taken the red, my curiosity still winning over. But since we're discussing Cipher's dilemma, which takes place once he's already out of the matrix: I would regret the red pill with every bone in my body, and if there was a chance to go back and take the blue, I would.

What a deep question. Really. Thanks for bringing it up. Our minds are now expanded because of it.

what's up with you? Are you being sarcastic or something?

The most humorous interview of Bill Gates I have read posed this same question. Bill's reply was something like, "The red pill of course. Taking the blue pill would be boring".

I agree with Bill.

Red. Gimmie the truth no matter what it is. I do not believe in lies. you dont want to hear what I really think, don't ask.

I'd take the red pill, trusting that in time one can always accept the truth, no matter how bad it seems at first.

very true trudes1131

truth , all the way for me to.

As a selfproclaimed Atheist I just have to say that truth is by far the most important thing. But I really must point out an error in your reasoning.
Religious belif is not a basic fundament needed to be happy and content.
As well as moral is independent of religion/faith so is happiness. I'm verry happy with the world and how it is as well as I am verry happy with the fact that when it's over it's over.

Life is what you make of it! It's that simple!

Why Does it have to be that God doesn't exist why can't it be the Other way around? Pure logical person, god comes down and shows himself to you, Which pill do YOU take.

I agree with you. I am also an Atheist, and perfectly content. The point was that you were partaking in a roleplay of sorts. A hardcore religious worshiper may not be able to see the possibility of happiness/contentment outside of a religious belief.

Don't believe me?
Check out the a different question for christians thread.

From that thread:

This question was brought up before, but I didn't respond. Anyway, in such a situation, I don't see the dillemma.

Promises of eternal life, no death, no pain...for ever!?
Promises that all of these evil motherfuckers are going to burn for ever?

I would gladly accept the truth in that case!

there is no real dillema there!

Red pill of truth and happiness
or
Blue pill of ignorance and unhappiness

Seems a fairly clear cut decision there!

red pill.. i would HAVE to take the red pill.. because knowing the truth is much more important than just being content with a lie..

Ahh. yes I see. but by the way you stated the question I got the impression that you said that faith is a requirement for happiness.
My bad. sorry.

How can you be happy knowing that nothing you do means anything at all, BTW i'm not a religious zealot, i don't go to church or anything i've stated before that Organized religion is a joke. But i do believe in God, Souls, all that stuff :)

edit: Good lord that quote you linked of mine sure is bleak. Now that I think about it i'm sure i would eventually pick myself up but it would be VERY hard, I am sure i would still continue living life as a good person, i live the way i do because thats who i want to be, not because God told me to.

I want to know what pharmacy to get these bottles of pills at, do they side effects... "CAUTION- contents may leave you miserable and shattered. May also cause some anal leakage, take daily."

Can I just eat the cotton batton on top ? No ? oh, then I would take the red pill. Then kill all the bad drivers...... hey, why not, it's not like I would go to hell !

I'd have to go with the truth and take the red pill.

Well my happiness comes from the fact that I know that I am the one soley responsible for my actions. I cannot blame my thoughts and actions on any god or fairy.
As I see it life is meaningless and pointless, that I don't see as a bad thing because that means we are free to choose our own destiny, there is noone else that have a say in it. We are free to decide for ourselves.
Freedom is one of the most exhilirating and joyfull feelings I know, religion is in my eyes a mental prison where you are locked up by a way of thinking that simply is not valid in todays modern society where we know for a fact that many of the religious rules are simply wrong.
Happiness steems form the fact that I am free to do what I want with my life, no god or pixie has my whole life written down somewhere before I have lived it yet. A life without freedom is pointless no matter how many gods and santas that have a purpose with my life.
What point is there of living a life that is alredy set from the day you're born to the day you die? A life you have absolulty no influence on. That is among the worst horrors I can think of.

Could you be any more perceptive?

Red pill. Chances are i would be able to make a much happier life for myself with out any inhibition than i would have always fearing eternal damnation, or the unknown after death.

I don't see what your problem is. It's a legitimate question to ask.

If you don't like the question, don't respond. There are plenty of other threads, hopefully there you can find something that intrests you.

I guess quoting Douglas Adams is oh so much more profound and insightful of you.

Maybe you didn't read my post correctly I don't belong to any religion I think they are oppresive. And you only read the top part not the bottom part, btw whats the point of choosing your own "Destiny" if when you die it didn't make a difference what you did? Why can't you still have freedom. I used to belong to one of the most oppressive churches ever Latter day saints or Mormons, NO WHERE have they said your life is pre destined, and from what i understand from other religions NONE of them say you life is already chosen for you, you are free to do what you want, you are just held accountable for your actions in the afterlife, you still have freedom, I'm sorry but your arguments are weak.

Red Pill.

It's my favorite color. Must be a sign...

Truth. i need it

Happiness is nothing, if everything is a lie.

Vergevingsgezind.

What about a green pill? If there was a green pill of ambrosia I'd take that instead. :D

:thumbsup:

I did read all of your message i don't see why you claim that i didn't. :hmm:

I have never encounterd a religion where they do not claim that god has created the universe, past, present and future.
Never in my life. (This means Christianity, Islam, hinduism and most of their sapplings). All priests and imams I have met (an i have met and talked to may) say that god's will is omnicient, now, yesterday and in the future. God sees the future and know what is going to happend. (he can only know what is going to happend if he has already decided what is going to happend since he is supposed to be the all powerfull force of the universe, no?? nothing happends without he wanting it eh..) Only god knows what is going to happend. Fatalism in it's most insane form.

I'm sorry if the way i argument insult you, that isn't at all what i intended. I'm just verry agressive when i discuss things.

Ohh.. Why does it have to make a difference?? As long as i am happy, my family is happy and my friends are happy and i'm not hurting anyone I am fully content. Why does everything have to do with changing the world or putting your mark or whatever?? it's just plain ridiculous.
We live now and only now so let's make the best of it!

I'm not saying changing the world, i'm thinking on a much smaller scale. But I don't see how god seeing in the future past and present still doesn't give you the freedom to do whatever you want? And by the way, according the Mormons we have freedom of choice to do whatever we want, just have to be accountable in the afterlife, The reason satan was cast down from heaven is because before anyone was born he wanted to force everyone to love god and worship him, no freedom of choice, and jeesus wanted people to be free to choose how they live their lives. I'm not LDS but I was till i was 17. They do believe in freedom of choice, but they take the living christlike WAY to seriously and they end up not giving you freedom of choice, thats why I left.

I know that if I take the blue pill, I'd have no memory of doing so, and thus no regrets of forfeiting knowledge of truth.

I also know that if I take the red pill, I would keep all my memories, and the choice to forfeit bliss through ignorance.

I would rather know that I'm part of the solution, no matter how painful the job, than be part of the problem, and not know it. Red pill it is for me.

I'd chose the red pill and truth. Even if it makes me mad, unhappy, angry whatever I have to know the truth because I hate lies.

As i said in my other message. To see into the future, the future has to be already set, written in stone whatever otherwise we would have an infinite number of variable realities. God is supposed to be the creator so it is him that has created the future and thereby already decided what will happend.
Hehe.. This is an ongoing discussion within the major churches where i live, they are pretty much ready to slit eachothers throats by now..

Mormons I have yet not encounterd/looked in to, I know verry little about this shism of christianity other than it allows polygamy (but only men can have several wives or something like that??) and that it "goes by the letters" of their bible.
We do have mormons here but they refuse me to study their religion if I don't join their church.

And yesd it is the little things that makes me happy, the sun is shining today, school starts today and i had a lovley cup of tea this morning. If it matters or not is of no consequence to me because i feel good and i am happy, i have no need for it to mean anything other than that it makes me happy.

As a general rule i deal with the ideas of faith that is most commonly accepted. Otherwise i would argue with theists from every corner of the world untill the day i die and that is not the kind of life i want.
I admit i know verry little about the doctrines and teachings of the mormons and therefore i cannot debate it.

Hmmm... Would you really? In 1861 John Stuart Mill described this as follows:

He was writing in this piece on the quality of pleasure, and ranked the pleasure of reasoning as higher than the base pleasures, and contends that most prefer to be rational, reasoning people with all of the misery that comes with it instead of being blissfully ignorant. I think he hit the nail right on the head.

i agree- i'd take the red pill. i'd possibly regret it, but i'd have to take it.

HAHAHA they got rid of Polygamy in the 1800's you REALLY dont know anything about them do you. And if they are refusing to let you study the church then they are not really mormons. Around here if you even mention you are interested they will have all sorts of thigns for you to look at, HAHAHAHA polygamy.

BTW it's good that you are happy, everyone should be happy living their lives, it's not like I go out and have a shrine dedicated to him, I just try to keep God in the back of my head, if I do something kind for someone it's not for god, it makes me feel good to do that.

What the hell is up with you? He stated quite clearly that he knows next to nothing about Mormons, and then you start slagging him for saying something outdated?

Hmm.. Well as i said I know verry little about them. Here they call themselves mormons and teach, from what i've heard, the same kind of techings that is most common in USA..

btw, I've seen several docementarys about polygamy that featured mormons and their many wives, so it is still practiced even though the mainstream "mormon"-churches doesn't allow it.

Anyway, I assume that the reason they didn't allow me to study their religion was because when i asked i had a t-shirt thait said, "Ateist? Javisst!", witch means "Atheist? Ofcourse!", only in swedish it rhymes... :)

Red Pill, unfortunately that is just the way I am...I would always wonder what the truth was if I took the blue one.

There is only one mormon church, there are religions that broke away from them when they got rid of polygamy, and I guess I did overreact with the polygamy comment in the first place, but I assure the the leaders of the LDS church are very against polygamy. MANY people still think they practice which is wierd to me because i have grown up in Salt Lake City. Sorry again for being a dick.

Yeah basically taking out my aggression for my computer not working (was typing from room mates) I apologized, and realize i was being pretty much a dick.

hehehe...its cool. We all get pissed off at times! :thumbsup:

I'll take the reds man. I don't want to live being decieved by other notions of what is.

Red...And hope i never have to make the decision

Definately the red pill.

How could you resist the truth?

How could you deal with it if you new?

Although I would Love to always be content I think it's more important for me to know that truth

I eat a blue pill every day.......... mmmmmmmmm blue............

truth. happiness is great but it will fall apart if it is a lie. been there. doesnt work forever, there is always a loop hole that will reveal the truth. life is suffering, but you cant suffer without life and with a life, you'd suffer but not in vain for once

Red pill. Better chances of getting laid that way - was there any other criterion for this decision?

Tell me the truth. Don't lie to me. Don't lead me on. Only the truth will lead to true happiness.

i couldnt even vote....i couldnt choose either way.......


i would hope i would go for the red one but who knows

I'm a red pill kind of guy. I've got to know the how's and why's of everything.

im the same jadey.

curiosity killed the cat
but satisfaction brought him back!

Red pill of truth.

I follow my convictions because I believe them to be true. If I were to find out that any one of them is objectively and doubtlessly false, I would abandon it. Comfort, while important, is secondary.