Zen philosophy
 

Here is a collection of Zen stories
http://www.ashidakim.com/zenkoans/zenindex.html
A thread about Zen is somewhat of a contradiction, the ideea is that Zen cannot be discussed or debated upon, who does that misses the point. These stories are simple and there is a lot to learn from them

"45. Right & Wrong
When Bankei held his seclusion-weeks of meditation, pupils from many parts of Japan came to attend. During one of these gatherings a pupil was caught stealing. The matter was reported to Bankei with the request that the culprit be expelled. Bankei ignored the case.

Later the pupil was caught in a similar act, and again Bankei disregarded the matter. this angered the other pupils, who drew up a petition asking for the dismissal of the thief, stating that otherwise they would leave in a body.

When Bankei had read the petition he called everyone before him. "You are wise brothers," he told them. "You know what is right and what is not right. You may go somewhere else to study if you wish, but this poor brother does not even know right from wrong. Who will teach him if I do not? I am going to keep him here even if all the rest of you leave."

A torrent of tears cleansed the face of the brother who had stolen. All desire to steal had vanished. "



"36. Flower Shower

Subhuti was Buddha's disciple. He was able to understand the potency of emptiness, the viewpoint that nothing exists except in its relationship of subjectivity and objectivity.

One day Subhuti, in a mood of sublime emptiness, was sitting under a tree. Flowers began to fall about him.

"We are praising you for your discourse on emptiness," the gods whispered to him.

"But I have not spoken of emptiness," said Subhuti.

"You have not spoken of emptiness, we ahve not heard emptiness," responded the gods. "This is the true emptiness." And blossoms showered upon Subhuti as rain. "

Ah, zen! sometimes it goes places and sometimes it doesn't.

Thanks for the link.

Well, I just hate the Zen drivers out here. "No need to see destination, just know it"

As the Zen Master said to the Hot Dog Vendor: "Make me one with everything!"

You go ratbastid.
I'm (theoretically) still longing to be one with the all.
Making progress? It's very hard to say.

I like the Zen saying that "Talking about realization is like looking for fish tracks in a dry riverbed."

I talk anyway, it's part of the process, so long as we don't cling to our ideas. We just use them as a path, never stop walking. (Unless your tired. :) )

It's called vicodin. It's great stuff.

Its actually called Oxycontin......horrible stuff...

Has a dog Buddha-nature?

This is the most serious question of all.

If you say yes or no,

You lose your own Buddha-nature.

In order to merge with the everything, one must realize that there was always nothing.

That was zen... this is tao.

Zen is interesting.. but how can a person practice both a self-awareness buddhist type lifestyle while participating in the modern world.

Putting it another way... the most creative world-changing innovative types seem to lead caffeine and drug fueled lives. My own feeling is that I'm most productive when I'm fully committed to a project or work - having a mindset that is completely at odds with the calm detachment of a monk.

So for myself, I think that the philosophy is great - but more helpful for farmers say than for thinkers.

Or is that bullshit. I'm in IT/programming. What do other professionals think? I mean, if you were a social worker, teacher or nurse/doc, could you practice this sort of life?

Im a teacher myself, and have for a few years now studied zen buddhism.

Now, I will not claim to be an expert, merely a dabbler. But I would say that self-awareness and detachment are not the same. In order to see distinctions, you must look from both sides ie. see things subjectively aswell aswell as objectively. To do anything else will leave an incomplete picture, or in other words, emotions and ideas are as 'real' as say a chair or my whiteboard.

The explanation here, if it can even be called such, is ofcourse in reply to Nimetics post. I /think/ your question about detachment is really a question about objectivity vs. subjectivity in a direct relation to your circumstances (but please corrent me if I misunderstood - english is my second language).

I live in the world, not outside of it. I cannot exist outside the world. However, as my mind can percieve this world as a whole, or perhaps an ilusion of it (Nobody is aware of EVERYthing, when I say world here I mean my world, all I know of it, all that affects me, all that I see) it might be said to be outside of it. When looking at the world I do not see my mind. This leads to an entirely diffrent debate along the way, of the division between mind and nature, or body, but wether THAT division is an illusion or not is, well, sidetracking and I'm doing enough of that already.

As always with Zen debates, however, I find it hard to bring my view of things into words. Instead, I'd like to qoute a short story. You'll forgive me any errors in translation, I'm sure.

"Hogen, who was a chinese Zen teacher, lived alone in a small temple in the countryside. One evening, a travelling group of four monks arrived at his temple and requested permission to build a fire in his compound to warm themselves. While they built the fire (implying permission was readily granted) Hogen heard them argue about objectivity and subjectivity. He went to them and said: 'There lies a large rock. Do you consider it to exist within or without your mind? (perhaps I should say "inside or outside".)' One of the monks replied: 'Everything is an embodiment of my mind. Therefore, that rock exists in my mind.' To wich Hogen replied: 'Your head must feel very heavy, if you carry a rock like that around in your mind'."

EDIT: Oh look. Its on the page of stories aswell (stories, not koans). 76. The Stone Mind. Perhaps a more accurate rendition than my rough translation.

"The void is no mere emptiness, but is real, free and existing. It is the source from which all things arise and return. It cannot be seen, touched or known, yet it exists and is freely used. It has no shape, size, colour or form, and yet all that we see, hear, feel and touch is "it". It is beyond intellectual knowing and cannot be grasped by the ordinary mind. When we suddenly awake to the realization that there is no barrier, and has never been seen, one realizes that one is all things, mountains, rivers, grasses, trees, sun, moon, stars, universe are all oneself. There is no longer a division or barrier between myself and others, no longer any feeling of alienation or fear. Realizing this, results in true compassion. Other people and things are not seen as apart from oneself, on the contrary, as one's own body."

Bruce Lee
:)

Bruce Lee "Lost" Interview