Hypocrisy... - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

scottstall · 11-10-2006, 02:14 PM

I heard this about a month ago, and it struck a note of truth in me.

Hypocrisy tends to mean your half right.

Don't take it literally, look at what it's meaning rather than saying.

I think this needs to become a very common saying...

cyrnel · 11-10-2006, 02:32 PM

This was beat to death a month or two ago. Sounds like used-car sales training.

I know a dog that eats shit. I've never considered joining him.

scottstall · 11-10-2006, 05:10 PM

Oh, do apologize. Didn't see it in tilted philosophy, and I'd expect it to get a different response here than anywhere else in this forum.

The dog eating shit thing though...

I was meaning people cry hypocrite alot when someones doing something they think is bad, they tell other people not to do it, and they continue on doing it. Just because they're doing it and saying don't do it doesn't make them wrong... Alchoholics and smokers get called hypocrites all the time by their children, I suppose, and I imagine that the children justify doing whatever it is they shouldn't be doing by saying "you do it!"

I'm defending do as I say not as I do from a parental stance.

False premises can lead to valid conclusions. Something elicited me into looking at lists of logical fallacies, and it interested me enough to read through the abridged version. It gave the example of simplifying a fraction, using a method that doesn't work, but in this case, it came out with the right answer. The response was "you can't just cancel out the..." and the person arguing the fallacy said "so your saying 1/2 doesn't equal 2/4?" Of course, this is a grossly simplified example of a grossly simplified example of a logical fallacy explained in full. Do expect errors of interpretation.

Wait a second. I've just succesfully jacked my own thread. Yay?

cyrnel · 11-10-2006, 06:02 PM

Sorry, the dog eating shit thing was meant in a philosophical way. Didn't help that I'd just been browsing Politics. (But I really do know a dog that likes shit, and it seemed to fit what I thought was an attempt to excuse hypocrisy. I had it backwards.)

As for the parental situation, that's rough. Parenting isn't easy. It makes you evaluate so many things and little habits that previously went unnoticed. Some of us are slow, some of us never learn. Other parents know the advice generally comes from the heart for the child's benefit. It can be hard to convey that when you're the local bastard authority figure. Moreso when your actions don't match. Inconsistency is an obstacle for everyone.

It'd be great if children didn't get their first tastes of personal failure by observing their parents, but we all wear skin. Hopefully we grow to understand that and take relationship bumps and annoying advice in as positive a light as possible.

Ourcrazymodern? · 11-30-2006, 06:11 PM

The only dogs that I ever saw eat shit were little dogs. None of the larger breeds I've had while I've been keeping them have been doing it. Damn! It might have helped a lot both on the food bill and the cleanup.
Not reproducing might have helped on the food bill and the cleanup also, but I wouldn't have missed that for the world! Damn.
Sometimes, sometimes....

Ubermensch · 12-10-2006, 12:55 PM

We used to have a little dog that got old and lost control of it's bowels. It got the message that leaving piles of poo around was bad, but couldn't help himself. The only thing he could do was try to destroy the evidence - the only way he could. Which meant we then had to clean up half a pile of poo and ome doggie sick... Put him to sleep in the end.

Interesting point that false premises can lead to valid conclusions though.

Ourcrazymodern? · 12-16-2006, 12:36 AM

Our previous dog went to sleep artificially. I hated it but I couldn't help him! He developed something I hadn't heard of (megaesophagous) and I was told there was no effective treatment for it; 80% of the family cried and I regret taking the youngest along because he regretted the pet's passing more than any of us ("I've known him my whole life!" - well, you can imagine)and he had dreams about it for quite awhile. So did I. I hope this helps with your conceptions of hypocrisy? (Scottstall? cymell?) Hypocrite is what other people call you when they see you behaving as you do; you only come to call yourself a hypocrite when you see yourself as others do, or when you change your thinking and come to think you might've been wrong. Um, I wish I'd let the dog die in the backyard. That's what makes me feel like I was only half-right.

Ch'i · 12-16-2006, 12:40 AM

All gun owners should be shot.

Ourcrazymodern? · 12-16-2006, 12:43 AM

What? How did that come here, Ch'i?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ch'i

All gun owners should be shot.

Off the deep end, sir, but was that a pun?

11-10-2006, 02:14 PM	#1 (permalink)
scottstall Upright	Hypocrisy... I heard this about a month ago, and it struck a note of truth in me. Hypocrisy tends to mean your half right. Don't take it literally, look at what it's meaning rather than saying. I think this needs to become a very common saying...

11-10-2006, 02:32 PM	#2 (permalink)
cyrnel Adequate Location: In my angry-dome.	This was beat to death a month or two ago. Sounds like used-car sales training. I know a dog that eats shit. I've never considered joining him. __________________ There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

11-10-2006, 06:02 PM	#4 (permalink)
cyrnel Adequate Location: In my angry-dome.	Sorry, the dog eating shit thing was meant in a philosophical way. Didn't help that I'd just been browsing Politics. (But I really do know a dog that likes shit, and it seemed to fit what I thought was an attempt to excuse hypocrisy. I had it backwards.) As for the parental situation, that's rough. Parenting isn't easy. It makes you evaluate so many things and little habits that previously went unnoticed. Some of us are slow, some of us never learn. Other parents know the advice generally comes from the heart for the child's benefit. It can be hard to convey that when you're the local bastard authority figure. Moreso when your actions don't match. Inconsistency is an obstacle for everyone. It'd be great if children didn't get their first tastes of personal failure by observing their parents, but we all wear skin. Hopefully we grow to understand that and take relationship bumps and annoying advice in as positive a light as possible. __________________ There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

11-30-2006, 06:11 PM	#5 (permalink)
Ourcrazymodern? still, wondering. Location: South Minneapolis, somewhere near the gorgeous gorge	The only dogs that I ever saw eat shit were little dogs. None of the larger breeds I've had while I've been keeping them have been doing it. Damn! It might have helped a lot both on the food bill and the cleanup. Not reproducing might have helped on the food bill and the cleanup also, but I wouldn't have missed that for the world! Damn. Sometimes, sometimes.... __________________ BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

12-10-2006, 12:55 PM	#6 (permalink)
Ubermensch Upright Location: Midlands, UK	We used to have a little dog that got old and lost control of it's bowels. It got the message that leaving piles of poo around was bad, but couldn't help himself. The only thing he could do was try to destroy the evidence - the only way he could. Which meant we then had to clean up half a pile of poo and ome doggie sick... Put him to sleep in the end. Interesting point that false premises can lead to valid conclusions though. __________________ "Man is a rope, fastened between animal and superman - a rope aver an abyss." Thus spake Zarathustra

11-10-2006, 05:10 PM	#3 (permalink)
scottstall Upright	Oh, do apologize. Didn't see it in tilted philosophy, and I'd expect it to get a different response here than anywhere else in this forum. The dog eating shit thing though... I was meaning people cry hypocrite alot when someones doing something they think is bad, they tell other people not to do it, and they continue on doing it. Just because they're doing it and saying don't do it doesn't make them wrong... Alchoholics and smokers get called hypocrites all the time by their children, I suppose, and I imagine that the children justify doing whatever it is they shouldn't be doing by saying "you do it!" I'm defending do as I say not as I do from a parental stance. False premises can lead to valid conclusions. Something elicited me into looking at lists of logical fallacies, and it interested me enough to read through the abridged version. It gave the example of simplifying a fraction, using a method that doesn't work, but in this case, it came out with the right answer. The response was "you can't just cancel out the..." and the person arguing the fallacy said "so your saying 1/2 doesn't equal 2/4?" Of course, this is a grossly simplified example of a grossly simplified example of a logical fallacy explained in full. Do expect errors of interpretation. Wait a second. I've just succesfully jacked my own thread. Yay?

12-16-2006, 12:36 AM	#7 (permalink)
Ourcrazymodern? still, wondering. Location: South Minneapolis, somewhere near the gorgeous gorge	Our previous dog went to sleep artificially. I hated it but I couldn't help him! He developed something I hadn't heard of (megaesophagous) and I was told there was no effective treatment for it; 80% of the family cried and I regret taking the youngest along because he regretted the pet's passing more than any of us ("I've known him my whole life!" - well, you can imagine)and he had dreams about it for quite awhile. So did I. I hope this helps with your conceptions of hypocrisy? (Scottstall? cymell?) Hypocrite is what other people call you when they see you behaving as you do; you only come to call yourself a hypocrite when you see yourself as others do, or when you change your thinking and come to think you might've been wrong. Um, I wish I'd let the dog die in the backyard. That's what makes me feel like I was only half-right. __________________ BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

12-16-2006, 12:40 AM	#8 (permalink)
Ch'i Artist of Life	All gun owners should be shot.