Alone or not
 

Are we alone in this universe or not? I know the scientist at the SETI organization have the luxury of having some idea, but I think even will admit we may never know. On the other hand, we could find out tomorrow.

Here's a thought...if we're not alone, what does that do to religious beliefs? If the beings don't look like us, then God couldn't have made them since He made us in His image. If they do look like us...then...whoa!

The flip side of the coin is, what if we are alone? We're totally alone on a lone ball of rocks circling a star. That's it in this whole huge universe...no neighboring planetary neighbors, no impending alien invasion. Just us, sitting here going about our 80 years of life.

So...where do you stand? Alone or not?

edit:BTW, I land on the "We are definitely not alone." side. I just can't believe we're it and there is no other intelligent life in this huge expanse of space.

when im outside at night and look up into the sky, i see thousands upon thousands of stars. It seems to me that it would be very likely that there is AT LEAST one other planet out there capable of sustaining some kind of life. I hope we are not alone and I hope I live long enough to see contact. But its gonna suck if after contact we all get vaporized....

The odds are way too remote. Sure the Universe is infinite and all that, but just looking at the odds; life on earth most likely started entirely by accident against astronomical odds. By astronomical I mean 1:1000^1000 ( made these numbers up btw :))

The chances of those odds coming up twice in just 10 billion years does not strike me as possible.

ok we have odds for something that is infinite? I believe that there IS something out there. There has to be. If not it seems like a very incredible waste of space. Wondering if anything is out there is one of the questions everyone wants answered. Anything can happen and look it has happened..we are all here talking about this right now! I am sure we will find out soon. At least i hope we find out in my lifetime.

I really find it hard to accept that "we" are the only intelligent life.

People once thought the world was flat..................

If the universe is infinite then the possibility of anything/everything happening eventually reaches 100% on a long enough timeline.

It's a big universe, unless you guys are all figments of my imagination, in which case, my imagination sucks. :D

Logic tells us (sounds like spock) that since life developed here, it most probably developed many other places in the universe. I certainly hope that some (many) of these lifeforms are way more intelligent than us. We don't have a clue yet. We probably haven't developed far enough to be able to comprehend much.

No way are we alone!

given the age of our universe, our distance from it's centre, the relative age of our solar system. allow fractional statistical percentages for number of planets supporting life, speed of their development and compatibility of technologies we should be bombarded with radiowaves from alien civilizations, given that we only look at a small percentage of range (3%) evidence overwhelmingly predicts that we would have heard something by now, Occams razor suggests we are definately alone

It's not infinite

Even if it is not infinite, for our little minds it is close to infinite.

If it would turn out all that space was made, and the only intelligent life form in the universe is right now playing online-deer-hunting, you bet I`m gonna shoot myself.

LMAO Roland. Thank you. lol that just made my day...

oh and i agree...

it would be pretty pathetic if we were the only life forms...

i can always hope...

When forced to make a decision I have to believe we are not alone... The Universe is just too big to rule out the possibility that there is other life out there...


That said it is also so big that we are not *ever* likely to meet this other life...

If not, it's a pretty severe waste of space.

Scientifically speaking, until I see some proof I have no choice but to belive we are alone. I would like to think there is a benevolent race of T'pol looking Vulcans out there, but without proof or at least the hint of proof it's not logical to belive.

I can't prove that Santa Claus doesn't exist either, but that does not mean he does.

hhmmm...(now considering santa...)

Whoa now, back the truck up.
You mean...Santa doesn't exist?
If you're right...I mean, if that's true...then that shatters the very core of every belief system that I have.
It can't be true.
I won't listen. Lalalalalalalalalalalala.

hahaha..yea seriously..next your going to be telling us that the easter bunny doesnt exist!!

Whoa whoa whoa, I don't want to dash anyone's belief system. All I said was that I could neither prove nor disprove the existance of Santa (or hot Vulcans in spandex). Therefore, so far as I am concerned neither exists. (but just between you and me, Santa died in 1959)

hahaha..*demanding tone* and where may i ask is his grave..hehehe..everyone knows santas immortal...the easter bunny however...

The most assured proof that there are extraterrestrial beings is that they have completely avoided contact with us.

*blink blink* archer..thats far to deep for me...explaination needed for the dumb blonde..

If you weren't from this planet, would you want to meet us? I sure as hell know that I wouldn't.

ohhhhhhhhh...yea good point...hmm..i wonder ...what if theres like things way smarter then us watching us...it must be like some sad late night comedy..liek mad TV for us...only weirder...

Mad TV is brodcast from an underground bunker on planet fox.

There has to be something out there man; probably not in our live times well we meet them or be taken over by them but probably one of these days.

Looks like I'm with the majority here - though I do think that we may never find out the truth - The universe is SO big that while it seems reasonable to assume that there is life out there, it also seems to rule out the possibility of us ever getting to say hello. (I hope I'm wrong though)

hmmm..95% *heart* the little green men :)

guess you 2 doubters are out polled :)

Whether there is or not, the chances of us encountering any is very slim. They would have to be far more advanced than we are because at the rate we're going, we won't be able to efficiently communicate outside of our galaxy for a few hundred years. What if another civilization lived and went extinct? What if they are not looking for other life like we are? What if they've heard us and feared us? What if they haven't evolved enough yet? Is it out there? Could be. Will we ever know? Probably not.

I don't think we're alone but we'll probably never know.

Somewhere out there
 

Our universe is billions of years old and has been expending in every direction at the speed of light ever since. So it could be said that Earth is a negligable part of the universe. In a Universe that is infinately large how could Earth be the only planet with life.

Also, think about this: every year scientists discover more about our planet. If we don't even know everything about our home, how can we assume that we know even our own solar system.

To you people who are saying it's logical that we are alone are wrong (at least in the sense that your saying because it's logical.) If something can happen once, then it can happen twice, and a third time etc. and mostly likely will given sufficient time/space. That's logic.

What youre referring to is empiricism, which is basically you need to see it to believe it.

I'm really going to have to agree that there is absolutely no way we are alone in the universe. It's such a huge place and I can't see anything but sheer ego keeping people from believing that there are other intellegent (hopefully more so), sentient beings out there. But for the sake of not being redundant, I'll not argue why I belive we're not alone.

But I'd like to address the point that wrkime made about religious beliefs. Personally, I'm something like a Secular Humanist (though that's not exactly right. I believe in a God, but it certainly isn't the Judeo-Christian one.) but I understand what you are saying about being created in God's image. Who's to say that meant we were built in God's physical image? In fact, by virtue of our corporeal existance and especially our varied genetic features, how is it possible to have been created in God's physical image? I was under the impression most modern-day religions inherently believed that God was a non-corporeal entity. That being said, maybe humans were created in God's moral or mental image. If that was the case, meeting another sentient species might have no other effect on the religious stances of some other than to strengthen it. (Though I wouldn't believe this to be the case.)

For a species that can't even answer the most basic questions about our own existence (The reigning theories a couple thousand years of "progress" has produced is limited to these two: a) God said: let there be humans/life (take your pick, can't forget the neo-darwinian christians can I?), or b) we're ameobas, but all grown up now after millions of years - neither of which actually answer any of the questions of how we got to be here in specific terms, it's awfully egotistical for us to assume we're the only living organisms in the cosmos.. infact, as a species it's far more likely we're engineered than a random event (consider the nature of our genetic structures), but then by who? Hmmmmm??? Don't they always shoot the panda bears in the ass with a big tranquilizer before breeding obtaining samples? Sure, they do.. because those things might be dangerous.. same thinking goes to why a dominate alien species wouldn't bother making contact, except say, in isolated instances where their control of the situation would be absolute (nevermind what a horrible job we do of running the planet, I wouldn't invite us over either!).

Anyways, yep, gotta be life out there.. i just hope they're not packing anal-probes.. :eek:

Anyways, I babble.. and I WANT TO BELIEVE! :lol:

we all want to believe!! goooo...*cheerleader voice* x-files!! *pulls hood over face and starts chanting*

I have to say that with the universe being as incredibly vast as it is, there is more than likely other life out there. Will we ever come into contect with it? Doubtful.

As for religious beliefs - I see no reason for it to be a problem. One, if there is other life created by a god, our salvation/enlightenment/etc does not depend on our knowing of their existence or not. Just believing that god created the universe and <i>all</i> in it is enough. As for being created in the image of god part - it doens't necessarily have to be a physical image. It could be interpretted to say the image of god we are created with is our soul, or our elevated self-realization, etc, in which case other alien life could have this as well.

where's the "I couldn't care less" option??

either way it's doubtful that we'd come into contact..as stated already. Even if we did we're not in a position to accept each other as a single race..much less something from outer space.

There is way too much space out there to believe that we are alone. When I am reincarnated I want to come back as Captain Kirk who somehow was able to hook up with every alien life form out there.

I know there is life out there. Don't ask me how I know, but I do. ;)

*walks around corner, jumps in space ship and flies away*

A lot of people seem to like "the universe is so damn huge, there HAS to be something out there", but we should be taking into account that the chances of life developing are SO DAMN SMALL. I find it doubtful that other life forms exist, much less life forms capable of inter-stellar communication or even coherent thought.
Even in a universe as vast as this, it's still a mircale of probability that we exist at all.

OR

If you happen to be a fan of "God created all", then did God create other life also? He didnt happen to mention any of this in the bible...

Either way, it's a lonely universe from where I sit. Kinda disappointing that theres so much infighting in the only interesting corner of the universe huh.

I like to think that the universe is infinate, as in "there is no end" and as such everything is possible, even the most remote chance for something to occur has occured, or is occuring now, or already has occured before. The same thing goes with life existing elseware. Is it possible? Yes. Then is it true? Yes. Quantom Physics says so.

hmmm...its funny how some people on this thread are so serious about it and some (including me) are making weird wisecracks..randomness i guess :)

In an infinite universe? True indeed. In this universe? No.
Personally I like to think that the space we call the universe is spherical in some 4th spatial dimension, making it loop back on itself in our 3 dimensions. Like walking on a 3D sphere, if you go in a straight line for long enough you'll come back to where you were. Coupled with it's being unfathomably massive, it might as well be infinite for intents and purposes, but really its not.

Lak

The universe is SOOO big there must be life somewhere else, yeah and the sun moves across our sky it MUST be revolving around us

This conversation needs the Drake Equation.

Found here (and many other places): http://www.activemind.com/Mysterious..._equation.html

The Drake Equation was developed by Frank Drake in 1961 as a way to focus on the factors which determine how many intelligent, communicating civilizations there are in our galaxy. The Drake Equation is:
N = N* fp ne fl fi fc fL

The equation can really be looked at as a number of questions:

N* represents the number of stars in the Milky Way Galaxy

Question: How many stars are in the Milky Way Galaxy?
Answer: Current estimates are 100 billion.

fp is the fraction of stars that have planets around them

Question: What percentage of stars have planetary systems?
Answer: Current estimates range from 20% to 50%.

ne is the number of planets per star that are capable of sustaining life

Question: For each star that does have a planetary system, how many planets are capable of sustaining life?
Answer: Current estimates range from 1 to 5.

fl is the fraction of planets in ne where life evolves

Question: On what percentage of the planets that are capable of sustaining life does life actually evolve?
Answer: Current estimates range from 100% (where life can evolve it will) down to close to 0%.

fi is the fraction of fl where intelligent life evolves

Question: On the planets where life does evolve, what percentage evolves intelligent life?
Answer: Estimates range from 100% (intelligence is such a survival advantage that it will certainly evolve) down to near 0%.

fc is the fraction of fi that communicate

Question: What percentage of intelligent races have the means and the desire to communicate?
Answer: 10% to 20%

fL is fraction of the planet's life during which the communicating civilizations live

Question: For each civilization that does communicate, for what fraction of the planet's life does the civilization survive?
Answer: This is the toughest of the questions. If we take Earth as an example, the expected lifetime of our Sun and the Earth is roughly 10 billion years. So far we've been communicating with radio waves for less than 100 years. How long will our civilization survive? Will we destroy ourselves in a few years like some predict or will we overcome our problems and survive for millennia? If we were destroyed tomorrow the answer to this question would be 1/100,000,000th. If we survive for 10,000 years the answer will be 1/1,000,000th.

When all of these variables are multiplied together when come up with:

N, the number of communicating civilizations in the galaxy.

The real value of the Drake Equation is not in the answer itself, but the questions that are prompted when attempting to come up with an answer. Obviously there is a tremendous amount of guess work involved when filling in the variables. As we learn more from astronomy, biology, and other sciences, we'll be able to better estimate the answers to the above questions. Many of these questions will be addressed in depth in future issues of Enigma.


It answers nothing put breaks down the question into its scientific components.
It's not about little green men as much as it is about a set of conditions in a solar system that could sustain life of any sort and the likelihood of those conditions occuring.

I happen to think there is some life out there. Now I have no idea what form this life would take. Developing in a totally different environment this could be a lifeform that we could not comprehend at all. They could have a totally different means of communications that we are not able to receive. So who knows, someone could be out there trying to contact us but using means we do not comprehend. Just like we could be contacting an alien race with radiowaves that they have no means of detecting. Anything is possible. It's also possible that the only other life in the universe is bacteria or animals, or creatures without advanced communications abilities. All I know is that it is a bit scary to think that humans are the most advanced civilization in the universe...

I was JUST heading off to google to find the Drake Equation, or at least the version Carl Sagan had in Cosmos.. doh..

Anyway, I subscribe to the scientific approach given by this equation, and as Giant Hamburger said, the problem now is.. what values do we assign the variables?

Life on the planet Earth could easily be wiped out if our orbit was moved even a miniscule amount towards or away from the sun. Now, perhaps life on Earth could exist if it's orbit was a little closer/further from the sun (Given the chain reaction that produced all our pretty water and carbon still happened), but obviously it would be quite a bit different from what it is today. Species of animals would evolve differently, different ones would die out instead of others, etc. If every planet that can harbor life needs such an intricate balance of organic substance and distance from it's star (as in, basically an exact replica of the Earth, or any Earth based on organic compounds), then it follows that the amount of planets harboring life in the rest of the universe is very small. What I'm trying to say is, what is it that life definitely needs? A star that is in the same period of life as our own?A moon to regulate tides? Does life need heat? Does life need a certain proportion of organic compounds? Maybe, maybe not. Are viruses alive? What if there's a planet of super-intelligent virus-like things swimming around in some primordial goo playing lazer-tag (I'm at a loss on imagination here..)? What we know of life we only know given life that has evolved on Earth. Given different circumstances, there could be entirely different things out there. Not the difference between humans and wookies, but life forms that we cannot even fathom, since we simply do not know the possibilities yet.

Any number of intelligent life forms are possible in my mind. There is simply too little known about the universe at this point in time to say, but even if you fidget around with the numbers, given any number of stars, I think scientific evidence is strongly supportive of life on other planets, possibly even in the galaxy.

Well for one let me say that it really isnt that difficult to create the building blocks of life. Aminoacids and peptides can be created by simple things like meteor impacts and such (the simple act of the impact). And, in fact, the odds are pretty good that one day we will discover life here in our own solar system. Many of the moons of the larger planets lay unexplored and very much DO contain the conditions to create and support forms of life. Hell under the surface ice of Europa is believed to be a liquid ocean, just imagine the abundance of life that could be sustained.

Life, even on Earth, can and has existed in regions and circumstances that people would never imagine anything could live through. Some of these places, for example: Near active volcanic vents at the bottom of the ocean. Some of these microbes reproduce BEST at temperatures over 200 degrees F. and live in waters smothered in sulfur and other elements/chemicals that are dangerous/deadly to other forms of life. Microbes have even been proven to survive SPACE EXPOSURE (meaning not only sub-freezing, extremely cold temperatures, but also constant solar radiation bombardment, and not to mention lack of atmosphere, over YEARS, not just minutes.. YEARS). Scientists have also discovered microbes that live deep deep deep inside the earth in small pockets of water that have remained undisturbed for tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of years. These microbes gather enough energy to reporoduce once every FEW THOUSAND YEARS. Imagine living that long just to reproduce once.

Life is also very good at surviving. Imagine what life on Earth had to deal with when coming into existance. At that time the earth was under constant bombardment form space rocks, constant volcanic activity, radically fluctuating temperatures and environmental conditions, and god only knows what else.

The building blocks of life are EVERYWHERE. To think that they are confined to one tiny speck in the massive universe is naive.

We, as humans, also missed out on BILLIONS of years of the past. Billions of years where many civilizations could have sprung up on other planets, done this that and the other, and died out. Billions of years where life could have stewed on other plenets, even in or very own solar system, and could simply no longer be supported and died out. Just look at Mars. A few million years ago there was/could have been giant oceans, just like here on Earth. It's hard to support ocean life, however, if that ocean dries up. Some life forms may be left on Mars even today, but we'll never know until we get a good look. And that goes for the rest of the planets and moons in our own back yard.

I don't think the odds of life are so astronomical - you figure all that's required is a planet with an atmosphere and water that orbits a star long enough to have cyclical temperatures over a few hundred million years. Just look at all the various life forms on this planet - if it were so astonomically unlikely for life to be generated, then wouldn't we have just a very small number of species?

No - given the astronomical odds that life has actually occured here - a planet with an atmosphere and water that orbits a star long enough to have cyclical temperatures over a few hundred million years. It seems fair enough to assume that once these conditions have been met live will flourish. It is as possible that these conditions will not occur anywhere else as it is that they will, even given the huge finite size of our universe

The question asks whether we are alone in the universe, did other planets produce life? The question should be ''are we ready to encounter other beings"? We can not definitively prove or disprove life on other planets. So why not take the logical course of action and prepare for all possibilities. In general our society views ET life as probably hostile and wanting to invade and overtake the planet when they arrive. With our inherent fear of the unknown and the desire to control rather than understand the new and unknown, I believe that putting Earth humans and a alien race together would no doubt be dangerous. We are a child race who believes we are more prepared and capable than we actually are. Accepting this will advance us in our understanding and dealings with the unknown as situtations are presented.

Absolutely. And even if we were to discover an inteligent race, i doubt many of us would even recognize their intelligence. For example, who's to say ants arent intelligent? They produce and sustain massive underground structures (relative to tehir size atleast) and civilizations. If one day we were to discover intelligent space ants chances are good we would just blow them off as a new kind of insect and move on.

Somebody was said something to the effect of "Either we are or we aren't alone in the universe -- and either possibility is incredible." That's pretty much how I feel about it.