Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - Do you believe in positive thinking?

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I prefer to keep my expectations low. Keeps the disappointment down and helps turn good news into pleasant surprises.

Jinn- no worries- we agree to disagree, right? It was a pleasure having this conversation with you.

Just a note about the whole Quantum Mechanics bit: those who claim that their "work" is based off of Quantum mechanics don't know a thing about basic physics, let alone complicated Quantum Mechanics. My in-laws are like this: one's an acupuncturist, another believes you can teach someone to improve their business by doing things like visualizing Blue Circles on a line down the center of your body. A lot of their sales pitches have words like "Quantum theory", but it's bs.
Yet she can't teach her 10 year old the basic laws of physics. I have a hard time staying respectful when she discusses her "business", but hey, if it sells, it's because want to believe it. Sad stuff.

---------- Post added at 06:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:17 PM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixedsubstance (Post 2540877)

First of all, This has nothing to do with 'God' (as you may think of God as a superior being), luck, or superhero stuff, etc. And it's not about 'Thinking Positive about things that are just wrong...thinking that things are peachy when they're not'. It's about something totally different. Let me break down the 'Quantum Physics' of it all to explain what 'Law of Attraction' means.

Let's start with the 'Positive Thinking' aspect first...This has to do with what YOU think that brings feelings and actions into play in YOUR life. Not in the world, not elsewhere, In YOUR life:

Actions come from thoughts. Our thoughts manifest in our subconscious- feels like thoughts just 'pop' in our head. So, thoughts are created from our subconscious- which lead to feelings in our conscience, then lead to action. And our thoughts are generally those of fear. Once we start feeling on these thoughts, we need to ask ourselves why we feel that way...even if you don't know the true thought yet, you can ask yourself why you feel the way you are feeling. And it will lead to the subconscious thought. From there, you will be able to transform that thought into a positive thought, producing positive feelings, and therefore making positive actions, choices, and decisions.

Let's use a current example of asking of your feelings to diagnose a thought:

How Am I feeling?
-Stressed, frustrated
What makes me feel stressed and frustrated?
-I can't find a job even though I have been trying and trying for months.
Why do I think I can't find a job?
-Maybe because there's nothing out there for me, I don't have enough skills.
Why do I think there's nothing out there for me or that I don't have enough skills?
(It becomes tricky here- you just can't say 'I don't know')
-Maybe because my job industry in low-demand
Why do I think it's in low-demand?
-Because my company is stuggling or the economy is struggling.
Is that something I did that I can fix?
-No. I guess it makes me feel helpless and hopeless, like I'm running into a wall.
Then why am I feeling helpless and hopeless?
-Because I'm worried that I won't find another job.
And what would happen if I don't find another job?
-I will become broke and unable to support myself and my family.

BOOM. The fear comes out. Fear is a state of mind, which manifest thoughts, which then manifest feelings. Feelings lead from fear. We all tend to fear something. And if you've ever heard the phrase 'there's only love and fear.'- while that's true, we tend to think of them as seperate states of mind- but they are not at all. We tend to fear something that will affect something or someone we love, including ourselves. And then we start to manifest these thoughts into feelings- and those feelings can sometimes be irrational, unhealthy, and even untrue. Ever heard of 'false feelings'? These false feelings are what get us into trouble if we act upon them- such as the man who killed his family and himself or the old lady who shot herself because of the poor economy. Everything they worked for, owned, had an attachment to, and loved- they thought were gone...why? Because they felt they have failed and feared that those around them would not approve or accept that. That they would be considered a failure to the ones they love. And they couldn't see the light at the end of the tunnel.

I am focusing on the economy because that's what we are most fearing right now. So many thoughts race through our heads- Will i have my job tomorrow? What if I lose my house? What if I can't support my family? What if I can't make my mortgage payments? What if I never get out of debt? What's going to happen?

Ok, so once we get these thoughts in our heads...not only do they create feelings, they create 'visions'. And these visions are subconscious- for example, you start to see yourself being broke, you see your family struggling- no food on the table, no new pair of shoes for Jimmy, no presents under the tree...These visions are creating feelings which stem from the state of mind- fear. And many, if not all of you, have heard 'what you fear most will come true'. Well....it's true. You've got to literally rewind your feelings to your thoughts, then basically re-write them. And in that way you will be able to visualize what you want most. Of course, to me anyway, this is a great power that humans have that most don't beleive it. If you walked up to someone and said 'you can get what you want just by visualizing it.' They would most likely laugh or look at you weird. Many do understand this though- but very, very few of us actually practice 'visualization' or The Law of Attraction. And, of course, with every power, you can't abuse it. You can't sit there visualizing a pile of money will fall in your lap literally- but that can be a great vision for more money coming ahead for you. But it's just a matter of flipping a switch...you see the negative vision- push it away and enter a new, positive vision. Do this every time, and pretty soon all you will have is that positive vision.

We attract what we think. All in due time, mind you...but it does happen and it's been proven many times.

Take for an example I read in an article some years ago- scientists had 2 basketball teams of the same skill level to perform an experiment. The scientists asked 1 of the 2 coaches to have their team 'visualize' winning the game. The other coach was not instructed to have their team visualize, just coach them as normal.
When the 2 teams played the game against each other- guess who won? The team who was coached to visualize winning.

Also- think about those people out there who miraculously recovered though doctors told them they wouldn't- like that boy from Iraq who was told wouldn't be able to walk again- for the guy on America's Got Talent (if you haven't seen it- Donald Braswell) who was determined to sing again after losing his voice for 11 years....it goes on and on. Determination is just another way to put it. Some people might not realize they are using the Law of Attraction or Positive Thinking. They just call it determination- whether it be conscious or subconscious. It's not about 'Curing Cancer'- it's not a widespread remedy. It's something that we are in control of and how the power of as individuals for our own lives. But- if you think about it- if each person knew, understood, and practiced this, many more people would be healthy, happier, more sane, and safe. But it's up to one person to change one person. We can't change others by thought. We can only change ourselves.

Ok- so let's dig a little deeper. How do we manifest these thoughts in the first place, if they seem to come out of the blue?

Everything created is only made up of one thing. That one thing holds everything and everybody together. It moves us. It helps us think. But if it's abused, it can lead to fear- death- destruction- injury- illness- etc. Can you take a guess at what it is? If you are thinking ENERGY, you are spot-on. And what IS Quantum Physics? The motion of energy. And in order to have thoughts in our mind- our mind must spring them from the moving energy in our brains- i.e. energy waves. BRAIN WAVES. We are moving the energy in our brains constantly- either slowly or quickly, but it's all 'subconscious'- In our minds. And you will find that this 'energy is in everything and everywhere' has been proven and can't be denied by scientists all over the world.

I'm not claming to be some mighty spiritualist or philosopher, but this is something that I have studied, learned, read, practiced, understand, and believe...and have always had tremendous results. Sure I fall behind- I find myself stressed, worried, etc.- but then I know it's time to step back and analyze what's going on, what my true thoughts are, and start visualizing what I wish to bring into my life.
-----Added 8/10/2008 at 03 : 02 : 20-----
And, MSD, I see that there IS a connection to Mr. Quantum's little experiment and Positive Thinking/Law of Attraction. Backing up to my Quantum Physics Breakdown- and the manipulation of energy....it has everything to do with it. Think of the electron as a thought- think of the observer as you. You step in to observe that thought- and you can change it. You will see it differently. Just by observing it, you are acknowledging that it is there, you are starting to manipulate it. It all just boils down to energy. Not simple- but simple.

In this wall of text, you claim to understand Quantum Physics, and "break it down." Sorry, but, saying that everything is energy, our brainwaves are energy, does not mean you can say "QUANTUM PHYSICS!!!" and call it a day. Give me the Quantum Physics, how it actually works in our mind, what happens exactly. We all know that we're all made of matter, there are molecules, electrons circulating, and chemical reactions, and those give off energy. OK. That does not explain at all that if you think "positive" the world will be better.
My mother in law is one of those who makes outlandish claims in her sales pitches, wants to "help" you, yet her life is filled with negatives. She teaches fulfillment, improving your life, your carreer, resulting in "wealth", both money and "spiritual wealth."
She's heavily in debt, her life is far from being happy, spends a lot of time whining about how her body hurts. If she can heal herself by thinking a certain way, why the hell can she not walk straight, over a year after her hip was broken? She's still in pain, still not right, but claims she can heal others.
Her husband does other things: he's an acupuncturist, but "reads" energy. One of their dogs gets sick, his vet friend suggest medicines, but he has to "check their energy" first. If they don't "feel right", then fuck years of study and experience of somebody who owns and operates several animal hospitals, just trust your energy-reading.

You bunch don't make any sense. So isolated in the idea that energy will save your life, that you don't see the obvious negatives that you share with the rest of the world. These people don't live in pure energy happiness, they fight like everyone else, have the same problems, but all of their solutions are based on bullshit, and it clearly does not work.
He claims he can heal people and animals by working on their "energy", but I'm probably the healthiest one of them all. Even their dogs have health problems, no matter how much he "works" on them.
I don't mean to be brash, but I've seen these people; I know them well, and when what they claim doesn't even work in their own lives, then I call bullshit. Of course, when The Secret came out, they swore by it. But with them, it's all a cycle. When a new quack study or book comes out claiming a new form of working with energy comes out, they swear by that, and claim the past one didn't work.
Understand what energy really is, what it can do, what causes it, and then come back to me. It took us to the moon, right? But that was based on science. Not a quack book.

Some verbage for your edification, from about.com:

Words have precise meanings in science. For example, 'theory', 'law', and 'hypothesis' don't all mean the same thing. Outside of science, you might say something is 'just a theory', meaning it's supposition that may or may not be true. In science, a theory is an explanation that generally is accepted to be true. Here's a closer look at these important, commonly misused terms.

Hypothesis

A hypothesis is an educated guess, based on observation. Usually, a hypothesis can be supported or refuted through experimentation or more observation. A hypothesis can be disproven, but not proven to be true.

Example: If you see no difference in the cleaning ability of various laundry detergents, you might hypothesize that cleaning effectiveness is not affected by which detergent you use. You can see this hypothesis can be disproven if a stain is removed by one detergent and not another. On the other hand, you cannot prove the hypothesis. Even if you never see a difference in the cleanliness of your clothes after trying a thousand detergents, there might be one you haven't tried that could be different.

Theory

A scientific theory summarizes a hypothesis or group of hypotheses that have been supported with repeated testing. A theory is valid as long as there is no evidence to dispute it. Therefore, theories can be disproven. Basically, if evidence accumulates to support a hypothesis, then the hypothesis can become accepted as a good explanation of a phenomenon. One definition of a theory is to say it's an accepted hypothesis.

Example: It is known that on June 30, 1908 in Tunguska, Siberia, there was an explosion equivalent to the detonation of about 15 million tons of TNT. Many hypotheses have been proposed for what caused the explosion. It is theorized that the explosion was caused by a natural extraterrestrial phenomenon, and was not caused by man. Is this theory a fact? No. The event is a recorded fact. Is this this theory generally accepted to be true, based on evidence to-date? Yes. Can this theory be shown to be false and be discarded? Yes.

Law

A law generalizes a body of observations. At the time it is made, no exceptions have been found to a law. Scientific laws explain things, but they do not describe them. One way to tell a law and a theory apart is to ask if the description gives you a means to explain 'why'.

Example: Consider Newton's Law of Gravity. Newton could use this law to predict the behavior of a dropped object, but he couldn't explain why it happened.

As you can see, there is no 'proof' or absolute 'truth' in science. The closest we get are facts, which are indisputable observations. Note, however, if you define proof as arriving at a logical conclusion, based on the evidence, then there is 'proof' in science. I work under the definition that to prove something implies it can never be wrong, which is different. If you're asked to define hypothesis, theory, and law, keep in mind the definitions of proof and of these words can vary slightly depending on the scientific discipline. What is important is to realize they don't all mean the same thing and cannot be used interchangeably.

I think you need positive thinking AND positive communication. When you speak positively to others, it brings you up, too. The opposite is true for negativity, which I can spew so much more easily than positive thoughts, my achilles heel!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixedsubstance (Post 2540877)

Take for an example I read in an article some years ago- scientists had 2 basketball teams of the same skill level to perform an experiment. The scientists asked 1 of the 2 coaches to have their team 'visualize' winning the game. The other coach was not instructed to have their team visualize, just coach them as normal.
When the 2 teams played the game against each other- guess who won? The team who was coached to visualize winning.

Also- think about those people out there who miraculously recovered though doctors told them they wouldn't- like that boy from Iraq who was told wouldn't be able to walk again- for the guy on America's Got Talent (if you haven't seen it- Donald Braswell) who was determined to sing again after losing his voice for 11 years....it goes on and on. Determination is just another way to put it. Some people might not realize they are using the Law of Attraction or Positive Thinking. They just call it determination- whether it be conscious or subconscious.

A single repetition of an uncontrolled test that failed to isolate any variables with a sample size of 1 is not a scientific experiment. Examples of unexpected recovery, especially with the placebo effect well documented if not fully understood, do not prove anything. The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."

Quote:

And, MSD, I see that there IS a connection to Mr. Quantum's little experiment and Positive Thinking/Law of Attraction. Backing up to my Quantum Physics Breakdown- and the manipulation of energy....it has everything to do with it. Think of the electron as a thought- think of the observer as you. You step in to observe that thought- and you can change it. You will see it differently. Just by observing it, you are acknowledging that it is there, you are starting to manipulate it. It all just boils down to energy. Not simple- but simple.

I see no breakdown of quantum physics in your post; the closest you've come is a gross misinterpretation of conservation of mass and energy, intertwined with a gross misinterpretation of the observer effect.

I think these two physicists summed it up well with these quotes, which reflect well on Byrne's claim that she understood the subject clearly when she read about it due to her work with the Law of Attraction:
"If you are not completely confused by quantum mechanics, you do not understand it." -John Wheeler.
"It is safe to say that nobody understands quantum mechanics." -Richard Feynman.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixedsubstance (Post 2541200)

I've read The Secret- and watched the video. I know what it's all about and it's just one of the many, many sources of "The Law of Attraction". Do you know what a scientific law is, btw? It means it's a truth that's there, even if you don't believe it or accept. It has been PROVEN and no matter what, cannot be disproven.

As a nonfalsifiable and untestable claim, it has not been proven nor will it ever. It seems that you don't know what a scientific law is and are misapplying the term.

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Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru (Post 2508887)

The Law of Causality easily disproves the "Law" of Attraction.

I don't often reiterate. But sometimes it needs to be done.

The power of positive thinking only works within the boundaries of causation.

It might help to think positively, but positive thinking in itself does not produce anything but thoughts. It cannot manifest itself without understanding casualty.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru (Post 2620658)

I don't often reiterate. But sometimes it needs to be done.

The power of positive thinking only works within the boundaries of causation.

It might help to think positively, but positive thinking in itself does not produce anything buy thoughts. It cannot manifest itself without understanding casualty.

Yes, no matter how much I think I will win the lottery, I need to first buy a ticket.

No matter how much I want to sleep with that hot girl over on the other end of the room, I have to at least approach her and start talking to her.

If I have no action, no matter what my positive thinking is, there is going to be no reaction.

You have to change what needs changing and try not to be deppressed . its pretty simple, try not to let things bother you , pump yourself up when no one else is .
you dont needs books and crap for that stuff . its too hard to be positive all the time .

Didn't care to read the whole thread, so to OP:

Positive thinking works in the sense that you can create a "self-fulfilling prophecy" but its not some magic energy nor is it based on QM.

Positive thinking can create happiness and confidence though, and especially with the latter you will get much farther in life. You'll have more energy, be more willing to take chances, etc. Which altogether will bring you many benefits one way or another.

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Originally Posted by Zeraph (Post 2631577)

I like the way you describe positive thinking. :)

It doesn't make it seem as crazy as some people make it out to be.

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Originally Posted by iwst99 (Post 2641399)

I like the way you describe positive thinking. :)

It doesn't make it seem as crazy as some people make it out to be.

That's because positive thinking and the non-existent Law of Attraction are not the same thing. New-agers have co-opted the term to spread their garbage, though.

:no:

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSD (Post 2641751)

That's because positive thinking and the non-existent Law of Attraction are not the same thing. New-agers have co-opted the term to spread their garbage, though.

Exactly. Too many people were brain washed by "The Secret" :no:

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Originally Posted by iwst99 (Post 2641767)

Exactly. Too many people were brain washed by "The Secret"

It's still on the damn "non-fiction" bestseller list here.

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Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru (Post 2641768)

It's still on the damn "non-fiction" bestseller list here.

According to online sources The Secret 2 has been in productin for a while. Really? A sequel? The Secret 2: Secrets in Space? The Secret 3: Return of the Lycans?

Bleh.

Nice.

Maybe Da Secret Code?

I was thinking more like Secrets 2: Electric Boogaloo.

Well friends ... I believe in the negative side of thinking. If you think you're fucked - you are.
And if that reality rings true for you ... than it is only 180 degrees from accepting the positive side.

..... I thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken.

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Originally Posted by HannaH13 (Post 2648295)

This sounds like self-fulfilling prophecy to me, which is a well known psychological phenomenon.

"Whether you think you can, or you can't, you're right." "What you hold in mind you manifest." I believe that your thinking, positive or negative, impacts your life.

I don't know if this is getting into another form of thinking such as psychosomatic, or not, but I read something once that made me think there truly is something to positive thinking, or at least how STRONG your mind is, and that was about the new bride that wanted a baby so badly she kept thinking she was going to have one, and then she was pregnant, but not really, but she got big just like a pregnant woman, she got milk in her breasts, just like a pregnant woman would, all the symptoms pointed to pregnancy, but no baby. she was not pregnant.

When you're feeling positive and happy, you're less likely to notice the negative things, and will likely enjoy the positives even more.

As an example:

You're a positive thinker, and you're going to see your favourite band with your negative thinking friend. You're more likely to enjoy the show, as you'll be feeling good as a base line. You'll notice and remember how fun it was when the bassist did a two-step, and how the blue lighting made you feel wonderfully morose during the ballad. Your friend will notice that while the singer was good, the balance on the lead guitar was off, and they didn't play a favourite song. Both of you were right, the lighting was good and they really should have played that song, but one of you enjoyed the show more than the other because of perspective.

If you start out looking for the positives in things, you're more likely to find them, and if you're looking for the bad, you'll find those too. There's no science to it, it's just basic perspective. Things happen no matter what. It's just the way you see them.

I don't believe in the power of positive thinking. But I do believe that thinking positive will give you a better out look of life. Like Cynthetiq I believe that is the power of positive thinking was true then there would be less people dying of cancer and other illnesses. But there is no problem in believing in the power of positive thinking, you never know miracles happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lktknow (Post 2660099)

Psychosomatic medical conditions can be strong, and I just read a short account of a psychosomatic pregnancy, but once again, this is not the stuff the OP was talking about. I may need to separate it into a Law of Attraction thread for paranoia and a Positive Thinking thread for Tilted Life.

What if you attract negative energy, unwillingly like you say is possible. Then wouldn't positive thinking come into play. It's not so much an occurrence as it is an action in training yourself to think in a positive way.
I dunno if this makes sense, and I didn't bother to read the 100-page essays everyone else replied with.
Besides, life shouldn't be analyzed to T. Then you're just not living anymore. :/

---------- Post added at 05:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:37 PM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaniGirl (Post 2660385)

...Like Cynthetiq I believe that is the power of positive thinking was true then there would be less people dying of cancer and other illnesses.

That can't make any sense. Power in positive thinking doesn't lie in the realm of physical miracles. Unless you're talking about positive thinking affecting people's self-control to do or not do things that may or may not cause cancer/illness. And if it DOESN'T stop them from that then they simply didn't try hard enough or they're mentally incapable. Positive thinking is just self-discipline..Like I said, training your mind to focus on the good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by daysleeper (Post 2664456)

Define "negative energy" for me, because that doesn't make any sense. I completely disagree on analyzing life, the more we do it the more we can understand.

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No, the kind of positive thinking claimed in the OP is explicitly claimed to result in physical miracles. The "law of attraction" states that you can only get sick if you think about sickness and attract negative energy to your body. Oprah had a guest who claims that she cured her breast cancer through positive thinking.

It's utter nonsense, which I think is throwing people of because they're thinking of self-fulfilling prophecies rather than what the topic was intended to be about.