Is a Dj a musician?
 

Ok,
1st. Do you know what a Dj actually does?
2nd. Do you consider a Dj a musician?
3rd. Do you know what a turntablist does?
4th. Do you consider a turntablist a musician?
5th. Whats your favourite color?
6th. How many fingers am I holding up?

Thanks y'all.

A TURNTABLIST is DEFINETLY a musician. Scratching is a lot harder than people give it credit for. It's even harder to make is sound better. But a party DJ who just plays music and does nothing else? No, that's not a musician, that's an entertainer. There is a difference.

A Turntablist not only scratches, But continuously mixes the tracks together to give you a Non stop flow of Beats...You have to have talent to catch beats and keep them in flow together.

I know a few DJ's that spin House, Trance, Jungle, Breaks...And they have talent.

But are they musicians?

For every ten hacks who just crossfades some MP3s, there's a quality musician like DJ Shadow. Like most other things, a lot are pure shite, but there're some exceptional artists out there.

I think so

Re: Is a Dj a musician?
 

Re: Re: Is a Dj a musician?
 

What do you spin?
How long have you been at it?
Why dont you scratch?
Coke or Pepsi?
When did you last cut your toenails?

Re: Re: Re: Is a Dj a musician?
 

Vestax or Technics?
What mixer?
Ever used 3 decks? 4?
Do you remember Altern-8?
What do you want to be when you grow up?
Why am i asking all the Qs?

Dude, buy Vestax! Whats wrong with you? What the fuck?
TT - XP??? Who the fuck is Numark? Repeat after me "Ves - tax" good.
Seriously though, I do know what Numark is but really dont bother your ass with that (see above).
Im asking coz Im a turntablist.
OOh yeah, some Q's:

How long have U been at it?
Influences?
Interested in you?
Are you trying to make me laugh?

As for the Numark vs. Vestax vs. Technics vs. the world thing. I've played on vestax tables a few times and I like them, I've played on 1200's a million times and they're pretty nice too. The tables I have now rank up there with the 1200's torque-wise and they're 3 years old, plus they have a few more features to play with(+/-20, Foward and Reverse at 33, 45, and 78.). But the new Numarks blow away anything I've ever touched. from stop to full speed in less than a 1/4 of a rotation, it reverses on beat, more torque than any other table out there. If you have a Sam Ash or Guitar Center around where you live you should go down and check them out, especially since you're a turntablist. You'd be suprised by the torque they have.

Sam Ash? or a what? Dude, Im not in the same continent as you. we dont have any Ash Centres here!!

Far as I know Vestax PDX2000 have the most torque on the market today, I could be wrong.
Also:
+/- 60 (more than any TT)
Reverse (on a beat)
Same startup & break - less than a quarter turn.
Variable startup & break.
No Zero pitch dent.
ASTS tonearm (more for scratching)
Feedback reduction - Next time you get infront of a set of these take a look underneath, The thickness of the plastic is fucking mental! & its all one piece (less vibrations) & its high density fangled for your feedback reduction -ness.
Still not convinced?

1st. Do you actually know what a Dj actually does?
A Disc Jockey jockey's disks, and do exactly that.

2nd. Do you consider a Dj a musician?
Yes and no. A musician is one who makes music, but if you consider the mixing of numerous songs mixed together as a giant song (set if you will), then they can be referred to as musicians. Kind of like a composer.

3rd. Do you know what a turntablist does?
Yes. They work the tables like none other. Beat juggling, and scratching is basically what it comes down to. Creative mixing of songs, with scratches, etc. Tricks are fun to watch (one hand under your leg crabbing the cross fader / scratching with the NEEDLE only) but i don't believe they are necessary. Nobody see's your tricks when they listen to your mix.

4th. Do you consider a turntablist a musician?
Definately. Using the tables as an instrument -making sound that is not already embedded into something.

5th. Whats your favourite color?
Blue of sorts.

6th. How many fingers am I holding up?
If you're typing.. maybe one. I tend to not use my right hand pinky. Maybe thats the one.

I found the specs for the two tables, and yes, they are pretty similar, but $100 less I'm gonna have to go with the numarks, unless I could find the vestax tables cheaper on ebay.

Numark TTX-1 Specs (source)
Starting Torque: 2.8 kg/cm
Start Time: 0-33.3RPM in 0.25 secs
Rumble(Vibration) : -79dB Weighted(IEC 98 Weighted)
Speeds: 33.3, 45 &78 RPM
Pitch Range: +/- 8, 10, 20, 50%

Vestax PDX2000 Specs (source)
Starting torque: 2.0kg/cm
Start up time: 0.5 sec (33 1/2rpm)
Rumble: -78dB (IEC 98 WTD)
Speed: 33 1/2 rpm, 45 rpm
Fine pitch: +/-10% (100mmfader)
Ultra pitch: +/-50% (45mm fader)

Like I said, they're both pretty good tables, but Numark has yet to do me wrong. The difference in the majority of the specs is minimal, but the price difference isn't, and thats what gets me.

You got me.
Convinving numbers.
Kudos, Kudos to you.

kid 606 = musician
dj shadow = musician
2 many dj's (soulwax) = musician
DJ Premier = musician
Paul Oakenfold = not a musician

:p :) Ha - Ha :) :p

i personally enjoy the sounds of Aphex Twin...god of the mix and match ;)

If you don't believe me....Speed Racer, Popcorn, Bucceaplojdfljef(spelling i don't know) bouncing ball...

who do you know could make a damn good song out of a single noise?

Aphex Is a musician, no Q,
He has invented his own instruments! How fucked up is that?
But he naint a Dj or a Turntablist.

what is he then...mixer? i dunno, i don't listen to much besides him...cause he's the god of it all in my books, i haven't heard anything better

Methinks he's a musician.
BUCEPHALUS.

Its true though, Richard D James is the fucking king.
http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/pic...17242c6q1m.jpg

Do you consider persons who use Bryce to make neat pictures of floating orbs in front of mountainous lakes and lens flares galore artists? I don't, because I can do it.

IMO there are two definitions of DJ - one who creates content by rejiggering others' music or making their own.

The other is a guy who spins CDs at bars, weddings and company functions and believes that "large and in charge" tee shirts are a good idea.

Hehehe thats great.

Im sorry but I had to get into the technic vestax numark war. Vestax burn out real quick Numark are innovative just like Vestax but neither get their products reliability anywhere near a technic. Technics are the standard and I have only been to a couple parties where they used vestax turntables. Vestax mixers on the other hand are the only way to go. Other than that I think djing is a talent whether you scratch or not but people need to recognize that without scratching or continous chopping you are just "playing other peoples records." Scratching is my form of expression and allows me to play with the rhythm instead of just adding to it. when it really comes down to it though the only real way to take techno to the next level is to make it. Thats why I run the mc505, EMU xl7, JP8000, and rebirth.record spinning is fun but controlling the music takes the party to the next level. and sequencing allows for more room for the scratch while filters screw your head up.

eh hem.

Anyway back to the original question, imo, NO.

A musician creates music. A DJ doesn't. They may be a very talented artist, worthy of praise in their own right, but they are not musicians to me. Eric Clapton, Yoyo Ma, Dizzy Gilespie, and Paul Winter, those are musicians.

Lebel: what do you think of drummers and bassists?

to reiterate a point...
A DJ is not a musician... a DJ plays music. they Jockey Discs... doing it successfully is just as hard, and sometimes harder, than what many musicians / bands do, and that deserves a huge amount of respect that real DJs don't get from the general music community. But they still don't fit the deffinition of "musician."
And although some musicians people might use the moniker (sp?) of "DJ" broadly, they are not truely a DJ, but instead a producer (sometimes aka a turntablist). DJ Shadow, DJ Q-bert, etc are essentially producers, regardless of weather they spend hours editing sounds in the studio, or can create a fresh sound on the fly.

yup.

Paul McCartney, Mickey Hart and Tito Fuentes are muscians to me. A person that mixes existing music, no matter how skillfully is not a musician in my mind.

1st. YES
2nd. YES
3rd. YES
4th. YES
5th. RED
6th. 21 ?

I'll be glad when the postcount whoring is over



That being said . on to my answer.

After some great thought on the subject, I would say that a DJ is not a musician, but more of a performance artist. That doesnt mean they aren't as talented as some smuck who has a catchy beat in their head and can strum a guitar. Many great "DJ"'s can also play musical instuments, but their preference just happends to be a turntable, or soundboard, or sequencer. Nothing wrong with that.

Erm, I have been honourably proved wrong in this thread allready (thanks cody!) & I dont wanna start the eternal Dj argument...

But,
Technics could easily be described as fucking vicious well wicked tables, they helped start this Dj'n thing & we should all be eternally greatfull. They have (untill recently) been the undisputed industry standard for Dj's & turntablists alike.
However, as good as they are, they have changed little or none since the original 1200's (over 20 years).

I would expect you to only have bee nto a few parties with Vestax - They're in thier infance compared to Technics, Theres fuckloads more Technics out there coz untill now every club, Dj & party has had Technics.

Vestax & Numark dont get thier products reliability anywhere near Technics for the same reason - They just havent been around long enough!

Me thinks Vestax & Numark have added improvenents/new features to the turntable: higher torque, Waaaay longer pitch +/-, reverse mode, variable break/start, feedback reduction, ASTS tonearm. If you do a side by side test, the Technics dont seem to cut it. D'ya getme?

Mc505 Sweet, Id kill for a Groovebox.
Peace.

Magpie: When you talk of torque I just dont see what significance it has. its like the action on a guitar if you have your skills down it barely effects you. If you use the smallest amount of pressure on the record that you have to you wont really recognize torque much. Now, I will agree the functions are cool on these new tables but I dont believe they sound better(which is all I care about), and the vestax tonearm is only important for Heavy Heavy scratching. Longer pitch sounds useful in a purely mixing environment but the reason that Technic's sticks to the +and- 8 is because of accuracy of the marks and dependability. As for reverse mode I dont think its very useful, try stopping the table and spinning it backwards while watching the redlight that works for the two to three seconds I would use backwards effects. Finally, Ill give you the fact that Vestax are nice but Numark is completely unreliable. Oh and the 505 is great but the XL7 is where its at.

As a trance addict I have to say that I think DJs who actually create something different are musicians. If you can create something new and great it doesn't matter what you play. How many guitar chords have not been played by someone else? In the long run every musician plays something new with old music be it other songs or instruments.

ok time for me to stop rambling :D

Pulpmind I have to disagree with you on a couple points. Sill could you help me with this by defining what a musician is.

A DJ who simply plays songs at a party or something is not an artist. He or she is an entertainer.

A DJ who scratches, etc on a turntable is a musician. Instrumental musicians often will listen to foreign music to get ideas for their 'new' stuff (think Paul Simon's Graceland). They encorporate other musicians' music into their own and create a new thing. Same with a turntablist. They use other music, then mix and match and scratch etc.. to make their own music.

Just like any other musician, there can be good DJs and bad ones. The good ones are definitely musicians and artists. The bad ones are just...bad. You can't put them all in the same category, which I think some people do, sometimes.

If you scratch which I do torque is important. The torque pulls the record back to running speed when I lift mt hand off the record. Also with a high torque table under heavy scratching conditions I know that while Im scrubbing the shit outta the record on top, under my slipmat the platter os still spinning.
Try anything with a pair of belt drives & youll see what I mean.

The Vestax +/-60 is just as accurate and dependable as technics +/-8.

When I first got my Vestax tables I didnt know what to do with the backwards feature but after a bit of sperrimentin :p It proved to be a neat little feature that adds to a routine.

I dont think the newer tables sound better either, thats not my priority & if it was I would be listening to Cd's or something digital.

As proved above (thanks cody) I dont know shit about the Numarks, so why are they considerd unreliable????

Give it 5 years and we'll find out how unreliable they really are. Like I said, I've had my Numarks for 3 years and have yet to have a problem. Like magpie0001 said, they haven't been around long enough, wait till people are using them for 8-10 years and then we'll see. Until then I'm going to go play some of my records backward at 78RPMs at a +20 pitch, any 1200 users care to join me:D :D

I agree partly.

If you're not creating something new, but simply playing other people's music, you're not a musician. If you use others' music as a source of inspiration, you're a musician.

A DJ who simply scratches is not really a musician, since he/she is not creating anything (besides the scratch sound). The order of sounds may be modified, but the music still comes from somewhere other than the DJ. True, you might get a new sound, a new way of listening to the song, but much of the basis is still there, so the scratch DJ kinda teeters on the musician/non-musician fence in my book.

Aphex Twin is a musician. Kid Koala teeters.

I see what you mean but I dont think you get what a TURNTABLIST (not DJ, there is a difference) does. Take two songs/part of/sounds/anything, change the pitch, order of beats/vocals, add scratches, juggles, transforms, take parts from one & put them in the other & vica versa, repeat & loop all or part of words/lines/verses/Fx/breakdowns/etc & what do you have? I argue that this is simply "a new way of listening to a song"
Listen to Q-Bert, usually a turntablist is using a breaks record that may or may not contain actual music, simply sounds or loops etc.
If 1 turntablist can take two records & make music or indeed 4+ turntablists (a Dj crew eg. X-ecutioners, Scratch Perverts) and can create music where once existed no music where does the song come from?

Magpie: I still have to disagree with the accuracy of a table that has =and-60 while still using the same fader size as a =and- 10. As for the torque it is not recommended to scratch on a beltdrive because it will overheat and blowout the motor or you could screw up the belt(if you were getting crazy on it). Still i have scratched on them and I have also scratched on vestax's. I will tell you vestax's table had little to no effect on the speed of any of my cuts. Maybe there is a chance that it might help the recovery from a flare but I still think that the only real difference would be if you stopped the table and then started it right back up. I say this because I use as little pressure on the record as is needed so that I can have a quick recovery and I rarely take my hand off of the record even when sampling(unless I am on 45). I prefer to have my fingertips barely touching the record or hovering right above it. What ind of slipmatts do you use and have you ever tried using a piece of wax paper or plastic over it that right there takes out the issue of stopping the platter. How long you been scratching?

As far as a DJ being a musician...why not! An example for instance is in a hip hop sense,that being in a percussive and rhythmic setting sure.But some guy spinning records at a party or something,I don't think so.But then again,our airwaves are full of so-called musician's playing traditional instuments and no matter how lame or unskilled,they are considered musician's

Since I didn't fully know what a turntablist actually did, I didn't mention it in my previous post. My distinction was between DJ's who simply club/party mix and those that create their own sound or take their inspiration from other actual musicians (with instruments).

Thanks to your explanation, I now understand what a turntablist does a bit better, but there are still a few things that may not make them true creators. Obviously, if you take more than 1 record and mix portions of them together, you're doing more than any club DJ and need enough talent to do so, which certainly pushes you towards the "musician" category. I was simply saying that those who just modify ONE recording are NOT musicians.

Kid Koala again springs to mind: he remixed and scratched the Jessica Rabbit song from the movie "Who Framed Roger Rabbit." This does not make him a musician, since all he did was slow down / speed up / scratch parts of the music; however, he did use some heavy sampling for a few of his other works, including taking mundane sounds and putting them in his mixes. This certainly makes him more of a musician, like Akufen (a Montreal DJ whose songs are made exclusively with sound bytes he took from radio stations), which is the point I was trying to make. If someone takes a collection of disparate elements and organises them into something concrete, we could definitely talk about a musician here.

<i>1st. Do you actually know what a Dj actually does?</i>
A DJ takes music other people have made and chops, loops, and remixes it.

<i>2nd. Do you consider a Dj a musician?</i>
Not bloody likely. If a collage artist is the same as Renoir, then maybe, but we don't then have a common ground on which to argue.

<i>3rd. Do you know what a turntablist does?</i>
A turntablist is, essentially, an analog DJ, interspersing motions along a record with those across one to mix music others made with percussion of their own devising.

<i>4th. Do you consider a turntablist a musician?</i>
Yes. I don't consider them musicians on par with guitarists, flautists, bass drummers, or even kazoo players, but they are a debased species of percussionist, and therefore a musicians.

<i>5th. Whats your favourite color?</i>
black

<i>6th. How many fingers am I holding up?</i>
Just one, and I hope you don't wave to your mother with that finger. ;)

Thanks y'all.

Vestax PDX 2000 & 2300 have 2 pitch faders, one like the one on your Technics & another smaller one called an ultra pitch fader, The mornal fader is +/-10 & the ultra pitch fader is +/-50. so accuracy is not an issue coz for tweaking you use the regular fader & for more drastic whatevers you use the ultra, & it works out quite necely :p. Check out the vestax website.
I cant remember what make my mats are byt yeah I use wax paper under them for extra good slippiness :cool:

It's all semantics. The fuck does it matter?

>1st. Do you actually know what a Dj actually does?
Yep. Djing myself

>2nd. Do you consider a Dj a musician?
Very few are. I certainly do not consider myself a musician through my DJing only. Producing is a different thing though. If you want an example of a DJ which I consider a musician, think Richie Hawtin.

>3rd. Do you know what a turntablist does?
Yep.

>4th. Do you consider a turntablist a musician?
Definitely yes. (well, as long as they're good enough)

>5th. Whats your favourite color?
Don't understand the question. Probably because we spell it colour over here.

>6th. How many fingers am I holding up?
Up who?

1st. Do you know what a Dj actually does?
Yes

2nd. Do you consider a Dj a musician?
No

3rd. Do you know what a turntablist does?
Yes

4th. Do you consider a turntablist a musician?
No

5th. Whats your favourite color?
green

6th. How many fingers am I holding up?
2 (both middles)

Do you play any real musical instruments?
Have you ever written a song?

Who are you asking??

Negative!
 

The definition of what a DJ is has being diluted in the collective ignorance.
DJ = (disk jockey) A person that mount records on a turntable in order to play pre-recorded music created by a recording artist. The profession of DJ was originated in the radio, at the LP and 45 RPM records age. That is why the use of the word (disk).

A DJ that writes songs is a songwriter when he writes the songs.
A DJ that can play skillfully a keyboard and make music with it is a keyboard player when he plays the keyboard.
A DJ that can make noises with a synthesizer is a synthesizer programmer, not a keyboard player.
A DJ that use tracks from somebody else to create a new music piece is a music tracks editor when he does that. That doesn’t qualify as a musician per se; it is more related to a technical job more related to the audio engineer technology. A sound editor is not being an audio engineer at all!
A DJ that produces records is a record producer when he acts like a producer.
A DJ is a DJ only when he play records period. It doesn’t matter if he plays keyboards on the recording, or if he wrote the song, or if he produced it, still a DJ when he executes the action of playing the music on the music device turntable of MP3 or CD changer whatever he uses to play pre-recorded music.
By logic deduction: A pianist that can fix a car is not a pianist is a mechanic when he is fixing his car only. A lady that knows how to cook and plays violin is a violinist when he plays the violin only, otherwise is a chef.
As we see, things are simplified and correctly defined when we use the brain to think in the correct direction.
A DJ is not a musician is a DJ. A person that works as a DJ might have some music talent! When he or she makes display of that talent, by definition they adopt the name according to the action they perform.
If they paint they are painters, if they entertain they are entertainers, if they sing they are singers.
The problem is a turntable or an MP3 by definition doesn’t qualify as a music instrument per-se.
If we consider a turntable a music instrument we need to consider the, cables, the amplifier, the speakers, the mike stand, the headset, etc., etc. etc, and the list start to enter into infinite numbers of entertainment devices, like TVs, PC, satellites, antennas. You can define a music instrument by: Pitch, family, tonal quality, registry, etc. The turntable or any other device used to store music on it, lacks of all this aspects. You can make music with it only if you hit it with a stick, then and only then it qualifies as a music instrument!
So DJ is basically a pre-recorded music player. Anything that happens outside that definition enters inside a different territory compatible with the action he executes. That is why a Dr is a doctor and not a car driver, or a police etc. etc. etc.

That is the crux of the argument, no? Is the turntable, or a digital sampler, or a computer, a musical instrument? "A Real Musician" has taken a more traditional stance than I am willing to take.

Here's a question: If am playing a hand saw, am I a musician or a carpenter?

it's easy to make noise with turntables and a fader but doing anything interesting is a very technical matter. it requires alot of practice and patience---on those grounds alone, there's nothing to the distinction between what they do and what "real musicians" do. i'm surprised people still try to make the separation. and this is to say nothing of the listening/ear training that's required, and the approaches to composition that folk have developed. collage is composition.

btw i've played piano in various formats for a very long time.
just wanted to defuse a potential counter.

From a performance standpoint, no.
From a production standpoint, yes.

I've been DJ'ing for over 10 years

???Shauk??? on Myspace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Downloads <-- shameless plug

Electronic music is, at it's core, a technical skill, more than a performance skill. It's the kind of music you're more likely to find computer programmers, gamers, rpg nerds, people with a focus in math or art, listening to and involved in than others.

It's also the core of Hip Hop instrumentals. You take out the vocals, you're left with basslines, beats, synths, and safe to say a majority of that is sampled, cut together, looped, and sequenced on a computer program somewhere before they even drop a lyric on it.

Same with most modern pop music. Live instrumentation and pure vocal talents are a fading art and it's dying in a sea of autotune and DIY Studio software.

Granted, a musician MAKES MUSIC, a DJ makes music HAPPEN.

The technical distinction is not one that can usually be made visually from the crowd. Unless you're intimate with the material you're hearing BEFORE you hear it come from the DJ, you're not likely to know just by listening or watching, how much of it is them, or the material they're using.

That said.

If you see something like
"DJ Shauk - Summer sessions vol 1." It's probably a handful of songs arranged and mixed with each other in a way as to feel seamless, more like a casual hour long audio journey through my musical mindset when I hit record. It's not meant to be a showcase of skill, but of taste, of energy, of the big picture.
"DJ Shauk - Track 2" is likely to be an actual production, at that point, the "DJ" is a misnomer, honestly most DJ's that label their productions with their DJ names are amateurs.

The exact opposite is irony. Deadmau5 produces a ton of music, but he also DJ's, while using Deadmau5 as his stage name.

The title "DJ" is open to much interpretation and honestly I've given up on using it as it's just going to group me with the wedding dj's and the kids who bought turntables and don't know how to mix, or the radio jockeys, to the uninformed. So I usually book myself as just "Shauk" instead of "DJ Shauk" to avoid that label. That way what I do up there isn't going to be subject to the average public reaction to the title. (you know, HEY CAN YOU PLAY EMINEM OK?)

If you are making music by playing a handsaw, I would call you a musician.

If you used that saw to build a house, you could also be a carpenter.

A turntablist uses an instrument (turntable) to make music, ergo a musician.

This

I don't buy the argument that a musical instrument is defined by how many accessories it requires. Particularly considering that most music made today uses all of the same items. If you make music with something then you are a musician. Whether the song incorporates material that is pre-existing is irrelevant to my thinking. (Music is one of the most incestuous of art forms is it not?)
I fail to see how sampling an old Marvin Gaye track and turning it into something brand new is less musical than covering 'Layla' note for note on a guitar.

I love how "A real mucisian" necro'd this thread but doesn't seem to understand the first thing about music at all. The very definition of music is entirely subjective. What is music to Shauk (and his fans) could very well be just noise to everyone else. That's my personal opinion of death metal, but I know that there are folks that love it.

Is setting a piano on fire music? I say "no", but I know of at least one other person here that wouldn't agree.

Absolutely.


Um yeah.

Not a keyboard player, but a synthesizer player. But he/she's still a musician.

So an audio engineer is a musician, but a synthesizer player isn't?

If I walk like an Egyptian, does that make me Egyptian?

So one can't be a DJ and a musician?

Ever hear of pretzel logic?

But I can be a doctor and a musician and a car driver! Ain't life grand?

This reminds me of those old cartoons with the parents holding their hands over their ears, complaining about "that awful rock and roll music". Art is completely subjective and a DJ isn't necessarily "just a DJ" anymore. Call it evolution of the arts, baby.

Well I was going to jump in on this, I don't get to debate music very often on here but everybody else has already echoed what I was going to say...so...yeah, redundancy alert.

The tool one uses to create music is irrelevant the sound that is produced is what matters and lets face it what passes for "real" music is so subjective that its almost borderline absurd to actually debate it...unless were talking about something incredibly experimental, or just plain awful/weird. (IE is John Cages 4′33″ really music?)

What these folks are doing takes an immense amount of creativity, technical ability and a firm grasp of musical concepts and theories. Any argument that suggests they aren't "real" musicians is simply a matter of splitting very fine hairs in my opinion.

A DJ is not a musician. A DJ is a different type of artist.

So, what, like a musicist or something?


I like what roachboy said about the technical aspects, the ear/training required, and the act of making collages. There are likely good DJs and bad DJs, and much of that could be pinned on whether they were a good musician or bad musician.

Well IMO, a DJ is a DJ. And you are right, as with all artists there are degrees of talent among them. Some DJs are average while others are exceptional and take the art of DJ'ing to other levels.

I am a musician because I play musical instruments. The ability to play a musical instrument is precisely what makes a musician a musician. A turntable is not a musical instrument, it merely plays recorded music and a DJ manipulates that recorded material. There is a major difference there.

Someone could be the most talented musician on this planet but could not do what a great DJ does and vice versa. They are different creative skill sets. It's just not the same thing. To further illustrate, a singer is not a musician unless he or she also plays a (manufactured) musical instrument- not just the ability to create melodies from the vocal cords. A singer is a singer or a vocalist- an artist just the same, but not a musician.

Okay, maybe we need a sample of what a turntablist does:

Now if you pay attention to the actual process and the structural component, what you see is a sequencing, layering, rejigging/rearranging of elements to present new patterns and a unique presentation. He uses elements that in themselves aren't necessarily related. He may choose to make connections, or he may not.

Next, let's look at an example of what a practitioner of the pop art movement does:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...nk_on_wood.jpg
Andy Warhol, Campbell's Tomato Juice Box, 1964, Synthetic polymer paint and
silkscreen ink on wood, 10 inches × 19 inches × 9½ inches (25.4 × 48.3 × 24.1 cm)

What we have here are two examples of the reproduction of previously existing elements to create something new.

I guess some of you fall into the semantic game. It's a musician if it plays a musical instrument. It's a musical instrument if it produces musical sounds. It's music if it produces sound with beauty of form, harmony, and expression of emotion.... And we can go on.

So the guy in the above video: is he producing sound with beauty of form, harmony, and expression of emotion on a tool that produces sounds?

Is Warhol producing art or is he just copying stuff?

Is a singer just making words sound pretty or are they making them into music?

Where do you draw the line?