Martian

The fun thing about a song like And I Love Her is that it seems simple when you listen to the finished product, but when you start to rip it apart (as we're doing now) you find out that it's actually quite intricate. This is part of the reason I thought it might serve us well, since it should give us a lot of spaces to fill in with our varied instrumentation.

I'm going to have to work up some kind of an arrangement anyway, transposing up a few semitones isn't that big a deal. The song as it exists now is in C# minor with a change to D minor at the solo. Taking it up to E minor and F minor is definitely doable.

So here's what we're going to do. I'm going to bring it down to two suggestions off of our list here. The first will be And I Love Her. The second is Wonderful Tonight by Eric Clapton. Both songs are good candidates because they give us a lot of room to work inside and to adapt this thing and make it our own. Each has it's own challenges that we'll have to overcome. I'm personally partial to either.

So let's put it out there. Everyone who is involved in the project as of right now, please indicate your preference. Again, for clarity, the choices are:

And I Lover Her
or
Wonderful Tonight

Due to my desire to get this thing moving, I'm giving you an eight hour window. Midnight EST a decision will be made. Now is the time to make your opinion known.

Also, vanblah raises a concern that I should've addressed earlier. I'm fully aware that I'm going to have to do most of the actual arranging. To that end, I will likely be distributing some form of written music to some or even most of our participants. If anyone involved could please indicate whether you can read standard notation, tabulature, both or neither, that would make my life a little easier.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

Baraka_Guru

My vote is for "And I Love Her," mainly because I've heard it a million times, and I absolutely love the song. (Yes, I've known about the key change. No, I didn't know what to call it, or what the actual change was until now. But I understand it conceptually. )

I can read tabulature, but I also understand things at the chord level. Standard notation is something I'm just getting into.

I'm not sure what to do about recording. I suppose I'll wait and see if I'm actually going to participate in this first round. Let's wait to see how the arrangement turns out. By what vanblah wrote, it looks like a setup of several hundred dollars for something "basic." I'm not prepared to spend that much at the moment. Is there a shortcut way while we're experimenting here? Like just going directly from mic to computer?

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

grumpyolddude

I vote for "And I Love Her" in Fbm
It has more rhythmic dynamics than the other
I can decipher standard or tab

__________________
"Regret can be a harder pill to swallow than failure .With failure you at least know you gave it a chance..." David Howard

Fly

no preferance.......lemme know what tune......

__________________
BASTARD

SterlingStudios

pig

Thanks - seriously - I'll check into it. Back shortly-ish.

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You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

little_tippler

Wonderful Tonight is another song I'd probably need transposed. It's in G Major, I'd be comfortable in either Bb Major or C Major.

I do usually sing it though, but I do harmonies in the chorus usually, and my guitarist sings the lead vocal. I'll give either song a go, in the original key if need be. My voice is just better suited to melodies in slightly higher ranges.

That being said, I guess since I've played Wonderful Tonight a lot, I'd rather play And I Love Her because it's something new.

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

vanblah

Absolutely! For what we're doing you can certainly get away with a microphone from Radio Shack that plugs directly into the mic input of your soundcard. And hey, you never know, Tom Waits has made a career out of using inexpensive microphones (and other weird gear) with EXCELLENT results. Or the USB mic that ratbastid mentioned earlier if you want to spend just a little more.


My vote is for "And I Love Her;" even though I said I probably wouldn't do a cover I'm feeling myself pulled into it anyway. I've played "Wonderful Tonight" at so many parties in the past that I don't think I'd want to do it again.

Next time we can see about an original.

ratbastid

"And I Love Her" will be fine. I like "Wonderful Tonight", but let's save it for next go round with a cover.

I read both tab and written music. I'm a little handier with tab for guitar/bass, though. I can't quite sight-read standard notation on guitar.

Martian

And I Love Her it is.

I'm going to try to leave this open-ended, insofar as such a thing is possible.

Procedure: I will work up a guide track within the next day or two. I will also be charting out certain essential parts, mainly the rhythm section. The rest of it we'll put together as originally proscribed. I don't know how well that will work, so as a back up I may end up charting out the whole thing, but I'm willing to try it the less constraining way first.

Watch this space.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

grumpyolddude

Guide tracks or charts for the rhythm section makes sense, but the rest should be left to the imagination and creativity of the contributor as much as possible. At least, that was the spirit of the original suggestion.

I have a habit of tweaking bass lines, but I'll stay in the pocket.

__________________
"Regret can be a harder pill to swallow than failure .With failure you at least know you gave it a chance..." David Howard

Fly

get the hell outta my pocket grump!!!!!

__________________
BASTARD

SterlingStudios

vanblah

Hey drummers, what are your recording possibilities? Can we get full drum tracks?

Fly

i have a full kit miced.........so yes that is a go too.



hey van........i'm using pro tools........it shouldn't be a problem dropping all or any tracks in my studio should it?


or when i flip tracks to whomever,it should all line up right?


just thinking out loud.

__________________
BASTARD

SterlingStudios

vanblah

OK. This is something that we should clear up pretty quickly.

Since we're going to be using different systems it's going to be VERY important that we all use the same method for creating the files. WARNING: boring, but important, pedantic drivel coming up:

We can't rely on everybody's BPM to line up ... it only gets you in the neighborhood. Every computer and application calculates BPM differently; besides computers have terrible rhythm (and that's not just because they are robotic). Hopefully Martian will tell us the tempo of the song (ie., 105BPM). But my computer will calculate 105BPM differently than everyone elses. There are devices which sync up different hardware clocks, but that won't work in this situation.

So how do we make sure the parts line up? There are a couple of things we can do.

So let's say that the song is 4 minutes long but your part doesn't come in until 1:30 and only lasts a few bars; so you're out by 2:05. You don't want to have to listen to the entire 1:30 for every time you try to do your take so you set your start point to a few seconds before that and then perform the part and then you hit stop and you're done. The resulting file is obviously shorter than the whole song and if you send that file it's going to be next to impossible for the mix guys to line up.

So, instead you go through the steps above but EXPORT the file for the length of the song. This means you end up with a file that has 1:30 of silence at the beginning and 1:55 of silence at the end (I think my math is right). This should be no problem to line up because it should be the same length as the entire song. The mix guy drops it into his DAW and boom! it should sound perfect, right? Not so fast there. We're going to be using MP3s for the initial sessions.

Some apps (SoundForge being most notorious) insert a second of silence before an MP3 render ... I don't know why. Different MP3 encoders do different things to the file so we can't really rely on that in the beginning.

So, in addition to the full-length file mandate, Martian gives us a four-click count-in at the beginning of the guide track and the mix guys can use that as an audio/visual cue to line up the various files that will be pouring in. You just copy/paste the four-click count-in to the beginning of your part so that the two line up.

When we make the switch to .WAV for the final mix, we won't have the same problems. But we should still submit the four-click count-in as well as the entire length of the song for each part. If we could use Broadcast Waves it would be even simpler, but the stable version of Audacity doesn't support it.

But, Doug, you say, if I have over two minutes of silence in my part that means I'm going to be taking up valuable server space for nothing. Isn't this just a waste of resources? I'm glad you asked. There is a free LOSSLESS audio codec called FLAC (which stands for: Free Lossless Audio Codec and can be found at FLAC - Free Lossless Audio Codec) that strips out the silence for file transfer and then can re-insert it at the destination (UNFLAC). OK, that's an oversimplification, but you get the point. If you decide to use it I would be very, very grateful. It's not a dealbreaker though; FLAC can be intimidating in much the same way early MP3 encoders were. We only need to worry about FLAC when we switch to WAVs though.

I'm sure I've missed something, and probably raised more questions than answered, but we'll get there. It's not too difficult.

1. Render/Export/Save the ENTIRE length of the song regardless of whether your part lasts that long.
2. Copy/Paste/Lineup the four-click count-in for each part.

BTW, for those of you who don't have FTP clients (or don't want to) I have set up a rudimentary Web based PHP/FTP page. I'll PM the link to everyone shortly. I'm not sure how well it will work, but it works for me so far. I haven't tried to transfer a full size WAV though.

Fly

sweet..........kay i've tried to upload on van's site...........works like a freakin' charm.


let's get this goin' Martian..........


and van...........BIG appreciation for the domain too buddy..........thank you kindly.

__________________
BASTARD

SterlingStudios

freeload

Probably. For this "concept" I'll cheat and use my e-drums with Addictive Drums as a soft-synth, so it should be possible to split the output to individual tracks.

The Beatles song has mostly percussion, so I can contribute with separate tracks for each of the instruments I have available (Record real instruments when dealing with percussion)

Fly: I downloaded your test track. Turned the volume up quite a bit during the count in - then nearly filled my boxers to the brim What is THAT sound? (blowing trough corrugated electrical pvc pipes?)

__________________
The future ain't what it used to be.

Fly

*no need to thread jack*

__________________
BASTARD

SterlingStudios

vanblah

Well, now I can't take Fly's test drums down since everyone will want to hear the shriek. I thought I recognized it fairly early on. I have a 7-year-old daughter who can sound like that on command.

Besides it's good practice to take a raw drum track and play something with it.

Fly

sweet.............have at 'er man.




and how do i hear them like freeload did?..............hhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

__________________
BASTARD

SterlingStudios

freeload

No comment I have a batch of kids so I should recognized it immediately. I'll blame my crappy laptop speakers and The Element Of Surprise(TM).

Yep - keep the track, it's nice to play to. *runs of to sample the TwinsOfDestruction*

__________________
The future ain't what it used to be.

Fly

by all means van and free.play with it yourselves but,let's keep this thread as it was originally intended.

no intention of using that beat.....i just wanted to see if my sorry ass could pull off sending tracks to van.


let's carry on with the Beatles.


this is gonna be fun.....wooooooooooooohooooooooooooooooooo




actually van........could you pull the track off man........didn't mean to step on any toes eh.

__________________
BASTARD

SterlingStudios

vanblah

I have removed it.

Fly

thank you kindly sir.




Martian....ohhhh Martian....................

__________________
BASTARD

SterlingStudios

SSJTWIZTA

hell, count me in. ill stop and get something to link my amp to my pc with asap.

i play guitar like a drunken amputee with cerebral palsy and i rip one mean butt-trumpet

maybe ill break out the old casio and rock the keyboard.

__________________
First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me.
-Pastor Martin Niemoller

grumpyolddude

I know everyone is busy, especially with the holidays coming up. But are we making any progress on this thing?
I'm on the brink of a fairly time consuming band project. We want a new CD ready for spring release. I want to make a quality contribution here as well.
Just getting antsy, is all.

__________________
"Regret can be a harder pill to swallow than failure .With failure you at least know you gave it a chance..." David Howard

Fly

Marrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrtiaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn............

__________________
BASTARD

SterlingStudios

vanblah

Earth to Martian ... come in Martian ...

Martian

Apologies to everyone for the absence. As so often happens, Real Life got in the way. I have had a few Situations crop up over the past week that have severely limited my free time.

Progress is being made, even if I'm the only one who knows it right now. I have the guide track almost completed; it is quite minimalistic, as a guide track should be, and consists of a rhythm guitar and a bass part recorded to my metronome. It's on my 4 track right now, so I need to upload it to my computer, add a click track and put it all together.

I am making an Executive Decision regarding certain essential parts, pertaining chiefly to the rhythm section. Because these parts are key to the success of the project, they will be assigned, rather than simply left up for grabs. Fly will be handling drums, grumpyolddude will be on bass and ratbastid will take rhythm guitar. I will take the first lead part (the main riff, which is repeated throughout the song). Obviously, little_tippler will be on lead vocals.

If any of the above named individuals have a problem with their assigned part, let me know. ratbastid in particular, if you're not comfortable with the rhythm guitar, I can switch parts with you or find another volunteer for that.

The song is in the key of E minor, at a tempo of 105 bpm. This is slightly slower than the original, but not substantially so. As per the original, at the solo the song's key shifts up one semitone, to F. If anyone wants to tackle the solo, it's compositionally pretty simple. I can send a chord progression, tab or standard notation to any individual so states such a desire. It need not be done on guitar.

Unfortunately I will likely be unavailable this weekend, because it's Magpie's birthday tomorrow. I will attempt to get the guide track assembled and up tonight before I go to bed, but frankly I don't know if I have the energy. It may have to wait until Monday.

As is usually the case, my ambitions have been kneecapped by reality. Such is the life of a dreamer.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

grumpyolddude

Happy birthday to Magpie! Take good care of her.

105bpm, Em, modulate the solo... check, check and check, chief!

__________________
"Regret can be a harder pill to swallow than failure .With failure you at least know you gave it a chance..." David Howard

Fly

hey...if there are other skin bashers out there.........let's hear from you.........


i can always sit out a turn..........speak up drummer peeps........





(i'm kinda waiting for the *original* TFP tune to happen.........)



*heads off to write some TFP lyrics for the future*

__________________
BASTARD

SterlingStudios

little_tippler

I'm really glad we're really giving this a shot! I am pretty busy myself but I'll be making my best possible effort...I hope to not disappoint!

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

Martian

New status update. Last night I realized that I had no practical way to record my metronome. My mic wasn't picking it up properly and I couldn't seem to get it to work out. Frustrated, I went to bed. This morning, I ran across the simple expedient of running a patch cord from my keyboard directly into my 4 track and thereby being able to use my keyboard's built-in digital metronome. In my excitement at this new thought, I recorded over the rhythm guitar track, which just goes to show that I shouldn't work on this stuff early in the morning.

I will now be making myself a tea. Once that's done I will be sitting down to re-record the rhythm guitar part, and then uploading and mixing the guide track so that we can finally get started. Expect a new thread to appear today, hopefully early this afternoon.

grumpyolddude and ratbastid: I have your parts written out in both tab and standard notation. I did this purely for my own reference, but since I went to the trouble anyway, if you want them they're yours. Give me an email address and I will send you the pdf's. These are by no means to be strictly followed. Feel free to be creative.

Everyone else: sit tight. Progress is being made. We're hours away from getting started on the first ever Tilted Collaboration.

EDIT - A quick correction. Upon reading the replies here, I notice that I mentioned earlier that the song is at 105 bpm. This is a typographical error. The guide track has been recorded at 110 bpm. This is as opposed to approximately 120 bpm for the original. So again, slower but not substantially so.

Also, since Fly has indicated that he's not overly interested, are any of our other drummers going to jump in on that? This is an essential part, I need someone covering it.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

Fly

*waits patiently*

__________________
BASTARD

SterlingStudios

vanblah

If you want you can put the PDFs up in the appropriate instrument section of the FTP site.

Fly

great idea van.........

__________________
BASTARD

SterlingStudios

little_tippler

I'm sittin'...just wondering what my own recording troubles will be heh.

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

Fly

Martian dude........i'll have a go at it but,if there are others interested then let's get them rolling too.......

__________________
BASTARD

SterlingStudios

Martian

Part of my problem with getting this together is that I underestimated how much work it would be. To make a guide track, I've had to first transpose the entire piece, and then basically learn all of it. This morning and recording over the rhythm guitar was just icing on the cake.

I'm currently trying to sort out why I'm unable to connect to Vanblah's ftp. As soon as I figure that part out, we're good to go.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

little_tippler

If you need help with the upload Martian let me know - you could always email it to me and I'll put it on there.

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

Fly

same here bro..........kick it over and i'll toss it up.

you using the right password and such?

__________________
BASTARD

SterlingStudios