Martian

So I've had this idea rattling around in my head for a few weeks, but haven't really done anything with it. I want to get it out.

The premise is quite simple; get as many TFP musicians together as possible for a virtual jam. Since it isn't feasible for us to actually congregate somewhere, the next best thing would be to harness the power of the internet.

I'm envisioning a technically simple vehicle here. A myspace account is created, allowing us to upload a track. That track will consist of a simple beginning. We will then play hot potato, with each member contributing something to the track. Classical training or years of practice are not necessary for this; if you want to add some killer guitar riffz, go for it. If you're more comfortable strumming out a rhthm part, do that. If you want to add some bongo sounds, be my guest. Sing, play the spoons, tap your desk. Whatever you can record.

And therein lies the one and only caveat. Each member participating will have to record his or her own part. This isn't a huge hurdle, though; a basic setup can be achieved with a microphone and some free recording software. We don't all have a studio in the basement, after all.

The other concern is that someone will have to play 'producer' and actually put everything together. Mixing and balancing recorded tracks, and perhaps sending musicians back to do another take. For the sake of simplicity and not making this poor bloke's head explode, it's recommended that we keep it to only one member actively submitting at a time, but if we put the component tracks on myspace anyone can jam or write or whatever in anticipation of their turn.

So I've been playing with this idea as a new project. I've already assumed that I will likely be the producer on the first track if this actually happens, but I was hindered in not knowing what direction to go in musically. I thought a spontaneous jam, while fun, may end up excluding a large portion of our userbase, and I want this to be inclusive. I want anyone who has the necessary basic technical setup to be able to add their voice. So I need something that many people will feel comfortable with.

And then I stumbled over inspiration. Completely by accident I found myself listening to a song that is simple, easy to learn, well known and doesn't have any overly fancy chord permutations. It's the perfect piece, and can be easily made to be as simple or complex as the performers want it.

The inspiration is here. The track is Ben E. King's hit song, Stand By Me.

Notably, that is flexible, and if anyone has a suggestion of another song meeting the criteria, I'm certainly open to such things.

So, what I'm looking for now is commitment. I want to gauge what the reaction to such a project would be, and at least get a rough idea of how many participants there are. If it ends up being just me and Fly and grumpyolddude, I don't know if it'll be worth it.

Well, okay. Yeah it will be. Still and all, I think the point is clear.

If anyone out there is interested in participating, please signal such now. Additional indication if you're willing/able to mix tracks is also appreciated, as that might come in handy.

Go!

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

freeload

Fantastic! I've had the same idea for a TFP band for some time. (I think someone has suggested this a while back too).

Oh...I'm in!
(Can contribute with drums/percussion and the screaming vocals from my Twins-Of-Destruction boys)

__________________
The future ain't what it used to be.

healer

Sweet, Martian. I think we discussed this in chat some time ago - glad you've made it a reality (or are trying to).

As a (very) novice drummer, I don't know how much I'll be able to contribute. I'll download the vid and submit something though - you can keep it or throw it out, I won't be too perturbed.

So yeah, count me in too.

__________________

ratbastid

I'm in--pick from piano, guitar (acoustic or electric) or bass guitar.

We need to talk roachboy into gracing us with some of his experimental sonic spookiness for this track, I think.

healer

I managed to double-post somehow...weird.

That said, ROCK ON!

__________________

vanblah

I've been doing some online collaborations for several years over at Mixerman's site: The CAPE Zone - The Womb ... They've got it down to a pretty good method now. I didn't do CAPE 7 because my studio is in complete disarray at the moment and probably will be until Spring.

I suggested doing a collaboration here several years ago, but never really got anywhere with it.

I would suggest setting up an FTP site for tracks rather than MySpace. MySpace has been dogged lately ... I can hardly log in sometimes. I wouldn't mind donating space for FTP; I've got a couple of domains just sitting empty.

One thing about the CAPE projects is that they only do originals. It starts with the person in the "songwriter" position submitting one or several lyrical ideas for a song and maybe simple chord structure or melody. A guide track is created by the songwriter, the producer or someone in an arranger role. This usually consists of singing and maybe rhythm guitar or piano; preferably to a click track.

Then the song is tracked bit by bit from rhythm tracks up to vocals along side the guide track. Eventually the guide track is removed and minor changes can be made to the core of the song.

It's not unusual to scrap a guide track in favor of something new at some point.

If you decide to go the original route I'll throw in my keyboard and arranger skills; I'm not so sure about doing a cover.

Martian

Honestly, I would prefer to do an original composition myself. However, I'm trying to keep this simple to start with and have decided that a cover song works better, simply because it gives everyone a common starting point. In order to generate sufficient participation, I've also decided that the song needs to be simple enough that it's not going to exclude some of our members who have maybe not been at this music thing as long or aren't quite as obsessive.

If I can get this to work out, original compositions will be included in the future.

Of course, if you can provide ftp space that would be great. Myspace is hardly the ideal, and was chosen solely due to availability.

I can't see roachboy getting involved in our initial endeavour. I think it would bore him. That said, he may now show up to prove me wrong.

We'll give this a couple more days to see what happens, then we'll get started. We have enough now to do something, but I was hoping for a slightly better turnout.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

Manic_Skafe

I've still got a long way to go towards becoming a decent guitarist but I'd be happy to contribute if it helps get this thing off the ground.

__________________
"Porn is a zoo of exotic animals that becomes boring upon ownership." -Nersesian

Baraka_Guru

I'm another novice who likes this idea. Although it may take me a little while before I can contribute, I certainly like this idea. I think it would be a good experience and I would learn a lot from it. I would like to see what gets produced out of this.

Can we call it Tilted Band Project?

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

roachboy

what ho! comrades.

i think this is a great idea.
i'd be entirely into doing something collaborative.
i'll probably lay out if/when a cover happens (this is not strict, but for the most part, as my time is a bit limited these days), but i'd be willing to help in a meta-capacity.

but i'm interested in doing something more compositional.
and a platform that could be used to lots of projects involving lots of combinations of folk and approaches would be great to make.

we should do this.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Fly

you know i'm in Martian..........



start the juggernaut.......

__________________
BASTARD

SterlingStudios

Martian

Okay, then. So far for instrumentation we have:

My sweet self: Guitar, bass, vocals
freeload: Drums
healer: Drums
ratbastid: Guitar, bass, piano, vocals
vanblah: Keyboard
Manic_Skafe: Guitar
Baraka_Guru: Guitar
roachboy: Piano/keyboard (maybe), creepy prepared piano metamusic stuff
Fly: Guitar, bass, drums, vocals
grumpyolddude: Bass, guitar, vocals and miscellaneous other noises
little_tippler: Vocals

With vanblah, Fly, roachboy and me all capable of doing arranging or mixing/producing. Does that look about right to everyone?

Note to those musicians who are doubting their own ability: we will find something you can do. To the guitarists, if you can strum, we can stick you on a rhythm part if nothing else. I want this to be an inclusive exercise; if we can't give you a guitar part, you can play the spoons or something.

Given what we have available, I may decide to scrap Stand By Me in favour of something else. I'd still rather start with a cover, just because it does make life easier, but maybe we can go with something that allows us to fit things together a bit differently. Something early Beatles, maybe. A twelve bar blues could work nicely.

If this thing goes relatively smoothly and works out, we may end up making it a semi-permanent part of the forums. A sort of TFP house band, I guess. Tilted band project. Tilted Parsons project? I don't know, it's too early for me to get creative with the whole wordplay thing.

We've definitely got enough interest to pull something together. I'm going to say that I'll get something started on Monday. If there's anyone else out there who wants in on this, make sure you say so at some point this weekend, to be sure that we'll have something for you to do.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

Baraka_Guru

Ok, cool. If this is to be inclusive as such, then the song choice for covers need to take this into consideration, as hinted at with 12-bar blues and the Beatles.

May I make a recommendation? I think "And I Love Her" by the Beatles would be a good candidate. It has a manageable tempo, the guitar parts are easy, and it lends to allowing for expanding of the song and inserting other instrumentation thanks in part to its simplicity. We can take a lot of creative control over this song if we wanted to.



What do you think? A good test/experiment piece at least, no?

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

grumpyolddude

Ahem....

I have a long history of showing up late to the party.....

Bass, guitar, vocals, (limited) keyboards, kazoo, foot-stompin', knuckle-crackin' and various forms of nose-tones, at your service!

__________________
"Regret can be a harder pill to swallow than failure .With failure you at least know you gave it a chance..." David Howard

Fly

smokin'............good on you Martian.......anything i can do to help,i'm in bro.

__________________
BASTARD

SterlingStudios

little_tippler

I'm in too...the only instrument I play well enough is my voice. If you're interested, count me in

By the way, using Audacity it's easy to record yourself over a track. So in reality we could all record a full track (in whatever instrument we decide amongst ourselves) then record over each other, giving a coherent, continuous sound, and a full track.

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

ratbastid

Oh yeah, I can sing too.

grumpyolddude

I've used Audacity a bit. It's a good tool for non techies like me.

__________________
"Regret can be a harder pill to swallow than failure .With failure you at least know you gave it a chance..." David Howard

Baraka_Guru

Yeah, agreed on the Audacity. Plus it's as cheap as free.

tippler, it would be good, of course, to have more vocals, especially if it means adding a female element. So definitely interested.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

vanblah

I would suggest NOT recording over the guide tracks and/or other people's parts; at least for what you're going to submit to the FTP site. Use Audacity to record a single solo track of your part and submit that to the FTP site in MP3 format. When we (or the producer) decide to keep the take submit in WAV format for the final mix. Someone (or several people) will need to be able to take all the individual parts and submit a mix.

I use Cakewalk Sonar for tracking and mixing and I wouldn't mind throwing my hat in the ring for mixing.

I realize that not everyone is going to have professional microphones and audio interfaces, but we should try to keep everything as clean as possible for the final mix. I've heard pretty good recordings using very inexpensive gear.

Fly

i can mix a million tracks if need be..........and yes,for the final mix.wave files are best.

and agreed with vanblah.......we can all send in mp3's at first.........

my Q is......how do we get each other the tracks?.........my buddies and i flip on messenger,cuz it'll take big wave files.........so that could be an option.or we send mp3's through the emails...works fine for what we do.

i'm sure we'll figure it all out.



let's play people.
-----Added 6/12/2008 at 01 : 14 : 09-----


yes.

yes.

yes.



and..............not a fucking chance Martian .....you've heard me........i myself would rather listen to cats fuck in the back alley.

__________________
BASTARD

SterlingStudios

ratbastid

This will almost certainly motivate me to buy that blue snowball USB mic I've been eyeing...

vanblah

Once we have a better idea of what we're going to actually work with I'll set up an FTP site at one of my domains.

Doug

EDIT: I have set up the FTP site. Once we figure out who is going to be involved I can PM the user and pass.

pig

In theory, I would be into this concept. In reality, I don't think I have any way to make a recording that is worth a shit. If nothing else, I'll cheerlead. :P

__________________
You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

Martian

Okay, lots to address.

tippler, you are most welcome. I was afraid that lead vocals would default to me, which isn't terrible, but isn't great either. My singing, while capable, is hardly going to win any awards.

And yeah, Fly, I've heard you sing. Your biggest problem is confidence, and you know it.

vanblah, the ftp site is most appreciated. That will work nicely for distribution.

In terms of the track, And I Love Her is one that I was considering. My only issue with it was the lead vocals, which I personally find very challenging. It's also a bit odd to arrange, in that it contains some rather irregular key changes, but even so it's a strong contender.

Question to the group: what type of song do you guys all want to do? Would you prefer something ballad-ish, or more uptempo? Does anyone else have any suggestions regarding a specific track?

For recording, the easiest way will be for one person to handle the mixing of everything. Audacity is a great programming for recording tracks, but as vanblah mentioned we will be using a guide track and will want to record over top of that, since it's essentially going to be a rough cut probably put together by myself.

Fly, you and I will probably work together on the mix. I think that's going to be the best way to handle it.

I'm going to work on putting a guide track together tomorrow or Monday, so that we can get started soon. If anyone has any recommendations on what song you want to do, now's the time to say something.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

Baraka_Guru

What if we did something like submit out top ten favourite artists (who we'd like to play) or something? Or top ten favourite songs? Get a good sample of what our interests are.... This could be ongoing of course.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

grumpyolddude

Sticking with a ballad for the first project sounds good. There's enough space to allow contributions to be as simple, or complex, as desired.

And I Love Her would do nicely. (but I'm sure there are a lot of other tunes equally nice)

__________________
"Regret can be a harder pill to swallow than failure .With failure you at least know you gave it a chance..." David Howard

ratbastid

I think a song that's generally simple would be a smart first choice. It would allow us to focus on technical issues rather than musical ones, while allowing people with less performance/collaboration experience to get their feet wet in an accessible way.

Given that, "And I Love Her" might be on the edge. There's a LOT going on in that tune, chord-structure-wise. A guitarist who isn't handy with barre chords will find it unplayable. It has a half-step "trucker gear shift key change" going into the guitar solo. I'm just thinking, if there are people participating who are new guitarists, this isn't a great song to start with.

I'm game for it though, if it's the Chosen Tune. I just picked out George's little melody line solo, as well as the high arpeggios that happen over the 2nd and 4th verses.

Fly

this is gonna be fun...................



FUCK YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

__________________
BASTARD

SterlingStudios

pig

If I ever manage to set up some home recording equipment, I'll be happy to contribute something y'all will probably want to mute out into the background. Guitar, banjo, harmonica, some vocal ability. I'll keep track of the thread and see when I get into a position to contribute something.

I think it might be a good idea, and yes this is partially me being selfish, as the thread progresses if we had resources on home recording. If this thing gets legs, it might open up the number of people able to contribute.

__________________
You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

vanblah

What resources are you looking for?

grumpyolddude

Home recording need not be expensive or complicated. MIDI capable keyboards are available for under $80.00 usd. Mine has a mic port and usb. Audacity is free. Presto! My laptop is a recording studio!

__________________
"Regret can be a harder pill to swallow than failure .With failure you at least know you gave it a chance..." David Howard

little_tippler

I just heard "And I Love Her" carefully and I could do the vocals, but it's not going to be the most brilliant performance for me. The key of the song makes it so that it's in my low range, and then when they say the main phrase "And I Love Her", I have to jump up an octave (or say it in a really low voice!). Or someone would have to step in there and sing that bit.

"Stand By Me" comes out better for me overall.

I have a few more suggestions:

Tears in Heaven – Eric Clapton
Every Breath You Take – The Police
Don't Know Why - Norah Jones

If you'd prefer a Beatles track:

Eleanor Rigby
Let It Be
Michelle
Ticket to Ride
Can't Buy Me Love
Eight Days a Week
Hard Day's Night

are all more easily achievable for me.

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

Baraka_Guru

I, personally, am really open. I don't even know how much I'll be able to contribute. I have no hardware for recording yet, and I don't even know if I can do any of the parts yet. (We'll see.) I'm open to any of the songs tippler listed. I have a strong Beatles bias, but I like all the songs she listed. Is "Wonderful Tonight" by Clapton doable too? I like that one, and if I'm not mistaken, it is reasonably accessible to beginners, at least rhythmically.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

vanblah

Nothing is stopping us from changing the key. What key is it in? What key are you most comfortable singing in?

pig

Well, it could be out of sheer laziness - but I've been thinking of setting up something to allow me to record myself at home for a while. I haven't put a ton of effort into it, obviously - but I was thinking of resources that laid out what you need to put something together to allow yourself to home record - and perhaps a standard could be developed that would useful for people contributing to this project. My guess is that these resources are out there, and after last night I started looking around and found a few websites that I'll have to delve into. This certainly isn't something that hasn't been looked into by tons of people, so I know the resources are there. If, however, people in this community had already done all that legwork and knew where one should look for reliable information, it might save time. This could be done by each individual looking to get involved in this type of project, but I was thinking something like a sticky at the top of the thread with the resources members had found to be the best and most reliable, might save people (me ) time...regardless, I'm going to look into it as time permits and see what I come up with. Not necessarily for the work proposed in this thread, but just for personal reasons. We/y'all could (at some point) find it necessary to make a how-to...but if one has already been put together, then that makes things nice and easy.

I'll have to dig around some to be more informed on the topic before I can say much more of any use. If nothing else, this might give me some motivation to that research.

__________________
You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

ratbastid

I've been considering this one:

Blue Microphones: Products: Snowball

little_tippler

The original, as far as I am able to work out, is in the key of C# Minor. For me to be comfortable, this would be no small transposition. I would want to go up to E Minor. I don't think it's worth that trouble!

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

roachboy

nice...thanks for the ftp set-up comrade vb...please bounce me the requisite infotainment so i can get to it when the chance presents itself.

i was just looking at the lyrics to "and i love her" and wonder if it could work well slowed down and approached like a torch song. maybe transpose it up a step in terms of key and use the fact that ms tippler is in the low end of her range as an advantage.

this is good---i did my first performance in about a year last night to a sold-out house (!---i assume that the other band members come from large families and brought them all...) so am starting to ramp back up into doing sound stuff. i'm not sure how much i'll do on a cover unless we decide to really dismantle the original and do something else with it. but it might be fun to do multiple mixes of the collective projects. that way maybe some of the many recordings i have laying around of such fine sonic phenomena as my refrigerator (you have no idea...) can find homes away from my hard-drive.

further comrades.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

vanblah

No problem to transpose to any key.

When we hear from Martian (our producer) if we are indeed going forward with "And I Love Her" then he or we can spend some time coming up with an arrangement.

Can everyone read charts or tabs?

There are indeed a ton of resources out there. I would suggest checking Gearslutz.com - Powered by vBulletin

If you're willing to spend a little bit of money I'm partial to Presonus products. For guitar you'll only need a fairly small set up. I use the Firebox (PreSonus) for my laptop and a couple of Firepods (PreSonus) for my larger rig. I already said I use Sonar (SONAR 8 | Home) for tracking. The forums over at Cakewalk.com are a good resource too.

Microphones are going to be your biggest source of headache. I have several mics, but my goto mics for acoustic guitar is the CAD E200 and a R0de NT4 or 5 (mainly because they're the best mics I own). The last time I recorded electric (with my band) was through a Fender Twin with a Shure beta57 and R0de Nt5 on the front and an MXL "something" on the back. It sounds pretty good.

I also use the CAD for vocals.

It's really not difficult to set up computer for recording. Most processors and hard drives are way more than adequate for doing this nowadays. All you really need is a decent audio interface and decent microphone. That's it ...