Baraka_Guru

Prove me wrong.

As someone who spent most of a university degree studying poetry throughout history, I've had many things spoiled for me. One thing I've noticed is that I'll sometimes listen to a song playing on the radio and I'll focus on the lyrics, removing them from the context of the song. I will just listen to the words.

I often cringe.

Much of what I hear—what otherwise would be brilliant songs—can be considered nothing other than bad poetry if you look at it "lyrically." Some of the best songs ever written can be guilty of this. It's only when you look at the song as a whole do you find its power. But a song isn't a song without lyrics, and yet so much of this can be written off as subjective.

However, there are songs out there that have powerful or beautiful lyrics that can stand on their own. I want you to share these songs with me here. Prove to me that there are many songs out there that aren't bad poetry merely propped up by pretty sounds.

Try to focus on three (or fewer) selections, as it's easy to list all our favourites and lose focus. Feel free to revisit here when you think of more, but let's try to focus on the best of the best.

So I ask you to list songs whose lyrics are poetic in any capacity. Focus on all the elements that make poems poetry and apply them to lyrics of songs. These can stand as their own testament, or you can defend your choice with an explanation. I also recommend highlighting a few of the best lines of the song. Try not to post complete lyrics, as that too can easily become unfocused.

Here are a few to start:

"I Am the Walrus" The Beatles

Sitting in an English garden waiting for the sun.
If the sun don't come, you get a tan from
Standing in the English rain.

I like the imagery and how the rhythm seems to shift to the pitter-patter of rain.

"The Sound of Silence" Simon & Garfunkel

Hello darkness, my old friend,
I've come to talk with you again,
Because a vision softly creeping
Left its seeds while I was sleeping,
And the vision that was planted in my brain
Still remains
Within the sound of silence.

You can't go wrong with anthropomorphizing darkness. Also, the use of rhyme here isn't trite, partly because of the rhythm.

"Don't Dream It's Over" Crowded House

Now I'm towing my car, there's a hole in the roof.
My possessions are causing me suspicion, but there's no proof.
In the paper today, tales of war and of waste,
But you turn right over to the t.v. page

I like the turn of the last line.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

vanblah

Leonard Cohen ... pick one. I don't think I can settle on just one. If you want his most popular song look at "Hallelujah" which has been covered and re-written by a ton of people.

John Cale's addition to the lyrics also counts:


Tom Waits ... pick one. Again, if you're looking for a popular one look at "Christmas Card from a Hooker in Minneapolis" or "Small Change Got Rained On" but pretty much any of his songs can stand on their own poetically.


If you're focused solely on radio then I can't help much. Radio formats are usually NOT focused on lyrical content.

Baraka_Guru

No, the radio was only used for illustration.

You made some great picks. The CBC played Cohen's "Closing Time" this morning. It was the song that was playing when I turned the radio on first thing.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

CinnamonGirl

Damn... I was so thinking of "Hallelujah" when I read the original post. Love, love, love that song (by anyone, although I hold a special place in my heart for Jeff Buckley.)

Now I'm off to think of other beautiful songs, which will be difficult, since I'll be singing this one for the rest of the day...


Edit: Oh, and I get where you're coming from, Baraka... how many times I've cringed from bad lyrics, whether it be ALL the lyrics, or just a particularly bad word choice in an otherwise great song. You're right, though, that once the lyrics are set to music, we don't notice as much.

__________________
"...for though she was ordinary, she possessed health, wit, courage, charm, and cheerfulness. But because she was not beautiful, no one ever seemed to notice these other qualities, which is so often the way of the world."


"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?"

Derwood

Ch'i

. . .

Willravel

What constitutes "bad" poetry? I can't imagine many modern song lyrics can match up with Whitman or Kipling, but they're not bad necessarily.

Frosstbyte

I think what I'd be more interested in hearing from you baraka, instead of a few choice lines that are good poetry are some of the songs you heard that made you convinced that most songs are bad poetry.

Baraka_Guru

I wish I could remember the song I heard this morning that gave me this idea. Generally, I consider it bad if it's overtly and clumsily sentimental. (Though there are other criteria.) I consider much of Bryan Adams' canon to be such.

"Cloud #9"

Clue number one was when you knocked on my door
Clue number two was the look that you wore
And that's when I knew, it was a pretty good sign
That something was wrong up on cloud number nine

Well its a long way up and we wont come down tonight
Well it may be wrong but baby it sure feels right

And the moon is out and the stars are bright
And whatever comes is gonna be alright
Cause tonight you will be mine - up on cloud number nine
And there ain't no place that I'd rather be
And we can't go back but you're here with me
Yeah, the weather is really fine - up on cloud number nine [...]

"Pretty good sign"?
"The moon is out and the stars are bright"?
"The weather is really fine"?
And "cloud number nine" itself....

This is tiresome.

Then you have his older stuff such as "Cuts Like a Knife" and "Straight from the Heart." The titles themselves should serve as warnings for our purposes here. These and "Cloud #9" are tired metaphors. Bad poetry.

This is what I mean, and you can find this everywhere. Mind you, I like many Bryan Adams songs. They're catchy and make you want to dance. But lyrically, they are suspect if you want to view songs beyond sentimentalism.

Poetry can be varied in form, style, mood, tone, etc. Not everyone likes all of types of poetry, but it can be said that much of it can be gauged as being objectively beautiful regardless (even somewhat). Many of these songs? Not so much. At least not lyrically, and especially when you look at some of the great lyrics.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Derwood

SecretMethod70

It's true that most lyrics are "bad poetry"...but I think it's disingenuous to separate the lyrics from the music. The music isn't just something to "prop up" the bad poetry, it is an integral part of the song. Human's have a (so far as we understand) unique ability to be emotionally moved by music, and lyrics work in conjunction with the music. They are not separate entities.

I'm also not sure where exactly you get the idea that "a song isn't a song without lyrics." I strongly disagree there.

__________________
Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

Baraka_Guru

My intent is not to suggest separating lyrics from songs, but to find songs that aren't so bad in the lyrics department that they make my poetic mind cringe when I focus on them.

I was suggesting that there are a lot of songs out there that have music that glosses over the fact that the lyrics are simply bad.

And if you want to get technical, I consider "song" to be lyrics put to music. A "lyric" itself can mean words for singing in song, or a poem of a particular kind (mainly the kind that is expressive of thoughts and feelings).

In talking about "songs," I'm referring to the musical compositions and recordings where there is a singer featured. This is a traditional view, but it's one that works for me (and others, I hope).

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

SecretMethod70

I dunno. I mean, I get where you're coming from...I guess it's hard for the musician in me to consider the lyrics as a separate entity from the music. They're so intertwined, even in songs that are only decent.

But here's one song whose "poetry" I like, at the risk of exposing my inner feminist ()...

And here's the actual song (albeit a live version), which I think expands on the lyrics exponentially...

__________________
Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

aberkok

I love pop music...

...but maybe now you see why instrumental jazz is where it's at for me.

__________________
!check out my new blog! http://arkanamusic.wordpress.com

Warden Gentiles: "It? Perfectly innocent. But I can see how, if our roles were reversed, I might have you beaten with a pillowcase full of batteries."

filtherton

Having bad poetry for lyrics can be a huge part of what makes a song great. Hello "The Final Countdown".

That being said, my favorite poets are rappers.

fresnelly

I really enjoy The Presidents of the United States of America's use of wordplay. Their lyrics may be nonsense but this frees them up to play with rhyming, alliteration, consonance, assonance and so on to grab your attention and surprise you, but also help serve the tone of the story they're telling. It's not just the drums and guitars that are joyful.


"Stranger"

You, Lynard Skinnard-hat and
Me, little kitty
Sat across with a velvet jacket
Wild orange hair and dark, dark eyes
I gawked like a twelve-year-old - smitten
Carla the stripper,
straight from L.A.
You seem cool for a naked chick in a booth
Let's be pals some day
In other words,
Put some clothes on and call me

I saw you
It was incredible

Slim, relax,
Fine wine at the (QFC)
On a snowy Saturday night
Black pearls and I swear you were drinkin' beer
You were the redhead behind the counter there
I'm the one who fell off his chair there
You had your dry-cleaning and I think you're dreaming

I saw you
It was incredible
Mumbled these words at you
Unintelligible

My, my, my, my
My, my, my, my, my, my, my

My, my, my, my
My, my, yea hey-hey
Hey who had what time is it?



"Dune Buggy"

A little blind spider took the wheel
Navigatin' grass blades completely by feel
Got a sassy chassis, sparklin in the sun
All four small bald fat tires
rockin through the sand and burnin' up

Little dune buggy in the sand
little blue dune buggy in my hand

I got a rubber-band motor hummin' on a beach, ready for fun
Quit spinnin' and webbin', come out play in the sun
Eight thimble-sized cylinders, be as smooth as you please
Spider's bad-ass fat old abdomen stuck in the buggy seat

Squishy transmission was caught in drive
Spider man was squinting at the sand in the sky
Spider woman in the front seat, screamin' "Go, Go, Go,"
He's ridin' the accelerator down to the floor with his fuzzy little toe

Little blue dune buggy

__________________
Building an artificial intelligence that appreciates Mozart is easy. Building an A.I. that appreciates a theme restaurant is the real challenge - Kit Roebuck - Nine Planets Without Intelligent Life

ngdawg

A song that can be read simply as poetry but happened to be a song:

"Wreck of the Edmond Fitzgerald"

The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
Of the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
The lake, it is said, never gives up her dead
When the skies of November turn gloomy.

With a load of iron ore - 26,000 tons more
Than the Edmund Fitzgerald weighed empty
That good ship and true was a bone to be chewed
When the gales of November came early

The ship was the pride of the American side
Coming back from some mill in Wisconson
As the big freighters go it was bigger than most
With a crew and the Captain well seasoned.

Concluding some terms with a couple of steel firms
When they left fully loaded for Cleveland
And later that night when the ships bell rang
Could it be the North Wind they'd been feeling.

The wind in the wires made a tattletale sound
And a wave broke over the railing
And every man knew, as the Captain did, too,
T'was the witch of November come stealing.

The dawn came late and the breakfast had to wait
When the gales of November came slashing
When afternoon came it was freezing rain
In the face of a hurricane West Wind

When supper time came the old cook came on deck
Saying fellows it's too rough to feed ya
At 7PM a main hatchway caved in
He said fellas it's been good to know ya.

The Captain wired in he had water coming in
And the good ship and crew was in peril
And later that night when his lights went out of sight
Came the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald.

Does anyone know where the love of God goes
When the words turn the minutes to hours
The searchers all say they'd have made Whitefish Bay
If they'd fifteen more miles behind her.

They might have split up or they might have capsized
They may have broke deep and took water
And all that remains is the faces and the names
Of the wives and the sons and the daughters.

Lake Huron rolls, Superior sings
In the ruins of her ice water mansion
Old Michigan steams like a young man's dreams,
The islands and bays are for sportsmen.

And farther below Lake Ontario
Takes in what Lake Erie can send her
And the iron boats go as the mariners all know
With the gales of November remembered.

In a musty old hall in Detroit they prayed
In the Maritime Sailors' Cathedral
The church bell chimed, 'til it rang 29 times
For each man on the Edmund Fitzgerald.

The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
Of the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
Superior, they say, never gives up her dead
When the gales of November come early.

__________________
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

Zodijackyl

I find that there are some amazing poets/lyricists in metal bands.

This song is very well composed and the concept working with two vocalists was something new to the type of music at the time, it is very well written though it loses some of the effect to be read rather than heard: DARK TRANQUILLITY LYRICS - Skydancer (1993)

Though these two songs do sound better with the music (which is excellent), I think they are good without it.

Symphony X - Serpent's Kiss

Covenant of pure corruption
sink my teeth deep into you
Solemn oath of sheer destruction
Nightmare, through and through

In that hour - I'll devour
Hope is swallowed up in Pain
taste the venom - feel the power
coursing through my veins

I'm corruption
I'm destruction, through and through

Trust in me... for I will set you free
with a Serpent's Kiss

Be my lights and I won't stray - make me beg;
make me pray
Tell me when to laugh or cry - when to live
and when to die

Forgotten and betrayed
Rotting and decayed
left to wither - without a voice
left to slither - without a choice

Crucifier - spitting fire
say your little empty prayers
This empire - growing higher
To this spite I swear

Sharp tongue severs - like a razor
swimming in a sea of rage
Vindicators - masqueraders
all the world's my stage

I devour
I empower - god of pain

Trust in me... for I will set you free
with a Serpent's Kiss
How could it come to this?
with a Serpent's Kiss

Symphony X - Paradise Lost

In the cold misty morning
gleaming rays awake the dawn
Here I stand - a stranger in this land
does your conscience betray you?
falling from grace -
feel the sun on my face
does desire still hold true?

Mystified by her beauty -
does the hunter pity his prey?
Under starless skies all
Love must die and fade away

Take my hand - divine or damned
Make a stand, seize the day
Yours or mine, damned of divine
Draw the line, come what may...

Looking down from ethereal skies
Silent crystalline tears I cry
For all must say their last goodbye -
to Paradise

My yearning is silenced by angelic skin of white
Love conquers all for heaven's fall
this faithful night.
Yours or mine - damned of divine
Draw the line - serpentine...

Love is a tragedy
all that I have, all that I'll ever need
is right here inside
Let the winds of freedom be my guide

Looking down from Ethereal Skies
Silent crystalline tears I cry
For all must say their last goodbye -
to Paradise

Looking down from Ethereal Skies
Silent crystalline tears I cry
For all must say their last goodbye -
to Paradise
Say goodbye, goodbye, hold on!

...so I've cheated and I've lied
been the victim of foolish pride
and I've begged and I've crawled
and I've battled and bled for it all
now I'll savor the downfall...
of Paradise

Looking down from Ethereal Skies
Silent crystalline tears I cry
For all will say their last goodbye
to Paradise

spindles

I was thinking of Van Morrison as good poetry:

__________________
who hid my keyboard's PANIC button?

roachboy

i was thinking that it's difficult to think of van morrison as good anything at this point...but i'm a horrible, cynical person.

there are couplets that i like. one is from brian eno's fabulous "kings lead hat" (talking heads as an acrostic) on "before and after science" which is:

the killer cycles/the killer hurts

as a radio joke.
i like that.

but mostly, i agree with filtherton about hip-hop in particular. while i wouldn't call rakim my favorite poet, i really like his lyrics in the context of his delivery. check out "in the ghetto" sometime. maybe now.



but there's alot.

and here's the saddest song i know. but it's in french.



i'm not sure how the words would operate independently of this context, but in this context they can make me cry sometimes.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Martian

I don't know about saddest song ever, but Avec Le Temps is certainly well done. I find Ferré's delivery to be a bit overdone.

And I second Waits. I like his lyrics, they're highly impressionistic. Most lyricists tell a story, but Tom Waits paints a picture. I think this trait in his lyrics is evident in Hold On, which is also quite beautiful in it's own right:





I might get nailed for this one, but I do like some of the lyrics penned by Ben Gibbard, better known as 'that guy from Death Cab.'





Emo as all hell, yeah, but I think it's pretty anyway.

Also as said, if you want good lyrics turning on the radio is probably not the best way to find them.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

SalMineo

"Grounded" by Pavement

we spoke of latent causes sterile gauzes
and the bedside morale
we traipse around the table talking sentences
so incomplete... please! plea!
boys are dying on these streets...

Stephen Malkmus from pavement writes some really cool lyrics.

spindles

right back at ya about the hip hop

__________________
who hid my keyboard's PANIC button?

Jinn

Role Model:

Follow me and do exactly what the song says: smoke weed, take pills, drop outta school, kill people and drink
And jump behind the wheel like it was still legal
I'm dumb enough to walk in a store and steal
So I'm dumb enough to ask for a date with Lauryn Hill

Some people only see that I'm white, ignorin skill
Cause I stand out like a green hat with a orange bill
But I don't get pissed, y'all don't even see through the mist

How the fuck can I be white, I don't even exist

I get a clean shave, bathe, go to a rave
Die from an overdose and dig myself up out of my grave
My middle finger won't go down, how do I wave?
And this is how I'm supposed to teach kids how to behave?

Now follow me and do exactly what you see
Don't you wanna grow up to be just like me?
I slap women and eat shrooms then O.D.
Now don't you wanna grow up to be just like me?

Guilty Conscience

[announcer]
Meet Grady, a twenty-nine year old construction worker.
After coming home from a hard day's work,
he walks in the door of his trailer park home
to find his wife in bed with another man.
("WHAT THE FUCK?!?!")
("Grady!!")

[Dr. Dre]
Alright calm down, relax, start breathin..

[Eminem]
Fuck that shit, you just caught this bitch cheatin
While you at work she's with some dude tryin to get off?!
FUCK slittin her throat, CUT THIS BITCH'S HEAD OFF!!!

[Dr. Dre]
Wait! What if there's an explanation for this shit?
(What? She tripped? Fell? Landed on his dick?!)
Alright Shady, maybe he's right Grady
But think about the baby before you get all crazy

[Eminem]
Okay! Thought about it, still wanna stab her?
Grab her by the throat, get your daughter and kidnap her?
That's what I did, be smart, don't be a retard
You gonna take advice from somebody who slapped DEE BARNES??!

[Dr. Dre]
What'chu say? (What's wrong? Didn't think I'd remember?)
I'ma kill you motherfucker!

[Eminem]
Uhhh-aahh! Temper temper!
Mr. Dre? Mr. N.W.A.?
Mr. AK comin' straight outta Compton y'all better make way?
How in the fuck you gonna tell this man not to be violent?

[Dr. Dre]
Cause he don't need to go the same route that I went
Been there, done that.. aw fuck it...

Sing for the Moment
These ideas are nightmares to white parents
Whose worst fear is a child with dyed hair and who likes earrings
Like whatever they say has no bearing, it's so scary in a house that allows
no swearing
To see him walking around with his headphones blaring
Alone in his own zone, cold and he don't care
He's a problem child
And what bothers him all comes out, when he talks about
His fuckin' dad walkin' out
Cause he just hates him so bad that he blocks him out
If he ever saw him again he'd probably knock him out
His thoughts are whacked, he's mad so he's talkin' back
Talkin' black, brainwashed from rock and rap
He sags his pants, do-rags and a stocking cap
His step-father hit him, so he socked him back, and broke his nose
His house is a broken home, there's no control, he just let's his emotions
go...

Everyone has a different idea of poetry.

I generally don't listen to lyrics because I far prefer melody. Occasionally, though, I'll 'relate' to a hip-hop song. That's the best I can ask for from poetry.

"The Stan Song" is pretty fantastic too, but I won't post the whole thing..

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

jewels

A little old-school, maybe, but the imagery evoked - for me - is powerful.

__________________
We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
Mark Twain

filtherton

Don't let the conspiracy theory business in this video affect your opinion of the song. This Sage Francis song frequently chokes me up:


Frank, what's up man?

I'm just watching some bullshit
On the news. It's fucking bullshit
Reporters trying to a fucking win an Emmy.

(X3)
Makeshift Patriot
The Flag Shop Is Out Of Stock
I Hang Myself at Half Mast

It’s the Makeshift
The Patriot
The Flag Shop is Out of Stock
I hang myself... via live telecast

Coming live from my own funeral, beautiful weather offered a nice shine
Which is suitable for a full view of a forever altered skyline
When times like these arrive I freestyle biased opinions every other sentence
Journalistic ethics slip when I pass them off as objective
"Don't give me that ethical shit."
I've got exclusive, explicit images to present to impressionable American kids
And it's time to show this world how big our edifice is!

That's exactly what they attacked when a typically dark skinned Disney villain
Used civilians against civilians and charged the Trojan horses into our buildings
Using commercial aviation as instruments of destruction
Pregnant women couldn't protect their children
Wheelchairs were stairway obstructions
Now have to back petal...from the shower of glass and metal
Wondering how after it settles we'll find who provided power to radical rebels
The Melting Pot seems to be calling the kettle black when it boils over
But only on our own soil so the little boy holds a toy soldier..
And waits for the suit and tie to come home. We won't wait 'til he's older
before we destroy hopes for a colder war to end
"Now get a close up of his head"

Makeshift Patriot
The Flag Shop Is Out of Stock
I Hang Myself at Half Mast
”How does my hair look”

Makeshift Patriot
The Flag Shop Is Out of Stock
I Hang Myself at Half Mast
“Run that tape back”

Makeshift Patriot
The Flag Shop Is Out Of Stock
I Hang Myself at Half Mast
“Looks just like a movie”

It’s the make shift
The patriot
The Flag Shop is Out of Stock
I hang myself
“while the stock markets crash”

The city is covered in inches of muck
I see some other pictures of victims are up
Grieving mothers are thinking their children are stuck
Leaping lovers are making decisions to jump
While holding hands...to escape the brutal heat
Sometimes in groups of the three
The fall out was far beyond the toxic cloud where people look like debris
But all they saw after all was said...beyond the talking heads
Was the bloody dust with legs looking like the walking dead calling for meds
but Hospitals are overwhelmed. Volunteers need to go the hell home
Moments of silence for fire fighters were interrupted by cell phones
Who's gonna to make that call to increase an unknown death toll?
It's the one we rally behind
He's got a megaphone...and he's promising to make heads roll
we cheer him on, but asbestos is affecting our breath control
The lesser we know...the more they fabricate...the easier it is to sell souls

(Man talking)
There is a new price on freedom, so buy into it while supplies last.
Changes need to be made;
No more curbside baggage,
Seven pm curfew,
Racial profiling will continue with less bitching.
We've unified over who to kill, so until I find more relevant scripture to quote,
Remember, our god is bigger, stronger, smarter, and much wealthier.
So wave those flags with pride, especially the white part.

We sell an addictive 24 hour candle light vigils in TV's
Freedom will be defended...at the cost of civil liberties
The viewers are glued to television screens
Stuck... cause lots of things seem too sick
I use opportunities to pluck heart strings for theme music
I'll show you which culture to pump your fist at, which foot is right to kiss
we don't really know who the culprit is yet...but he looks like this
we know who the heroes are. Not the xenophobes who act hard
"We taught that dog to squat, how dare he do that shit in our own back yard!"
They happened to scar our financial state and char our landscape
Can you count how many times so far I ran back this same damn tape?
While a camera man creates news and shoves it down our throats on the West Bank
With a ten second clip put on constant loop to provoke US angst
So get your tanks and load your guns and hold your sons in a family huddle
Cos even if we win this tug of war and even the score...humanity struggles
There's a desperate need of blood for what's been uncovered under the rubble
Some of them dug for answers in the mess...but the rest were looking for trouble

Makeshift patriot
The flag shop is out of stock
I hang myself at half mast.
(3x)

It's the makeshift
The patriot
The flag shop is out of stock
I hang myself.
Don't waive your rights with your flags.

Pogue Mahone

A few that I could come up with:

Opeth - Windowpane

Blank face in the windowpane
Made clear in seconds of light
Disappears and returns again
Counting hours, searching the night

Might be waiting for someone
Might be there for us to see
Might be in need of talking
Might be staring directly at me

Inside plays a lullaby
Slurred voice over children cries
On the inside

Haunting loneliness in the eye
Skin covering a secret scar
His hand is waving a goodbye
There's no response or action returned

There is deep prejudice in me
Outshines all reason inside
Given dreams all ridden with pain
And projected unto the last

Porcupine Tree - "Lazarus"

As the cheerless towns pass my window
I can see a washed out moon through the fog
And then a voice inside my head breaks the analog
And says

Follow me down
To the valley below
You know
Moonlight is bleeding
From out of your soul

I survived against the will of my twisted folk
But in the deafness of my world the silence broke
It said

Follow me down
To the valley below
You know
Moonlight is bleeding
From out of your soul

Follow me down
To the valley below
You know
Moonlight is bleeding
From out of your soul

My David, don't you worry
This cold world is not for you
So rest your head upon me
I have strength to carry you

Ghosts of the twenties rising
Golden summers just holding you

Follow me down
To the valley below
(Follow me, follow me down)
You know
Moonlight is bleeding
From out of your soul

Follow me down
To the valley below
(Follow me, follow me down)
You know
Moonlight is bleeding
From out of your soul

Come to us, Lazarus,
It's time for you to go.

The Byrds "Eight Miles High"

Eight miles high and when you touch down
You'll find that it's stranger than known
Signs in the street that say where you're going
Are somewhere just being their own

Nowhere is there warmth to be found
Among those afraid of losing their ground
Rain gray town known for its sound
In places small faces unbound


Round the squares huddled in storms
Some laughing some just shapeless forms
Sidewalk scenes and black limousines
Some living, some standing alone

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I still wave at the dots on the shore
And I still beat my head against the door
I still rage and wage my little war
I'm a shade and easy to ignore

Baraka_Guru

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

mixedmedia

I'm not sure what we're having to prove...I think some songs rely on lyrical content, while others don't and I don't make a distinction between them. I'm not much of a poetry person, either, so you'll find me hard-pressed to rush to poetry's defense as a 'higher' form. Personally, I am more moved by prose.

Why, though, do song lyrics necessarily have to stand on their own? No one expects that poetry should be able to be set to music, <subtle dig> bongos notwithstanding.

Anyway, I've always enjoyed the lyrics of James Mercer from the Shins.



I also enjoy the lyrics of Bob Dylan, Donald Fagen, Tom Waits, Aimee Mann, Rickie Lee Jones, Chuck D, Joni Mitchell, Paul Simon, Leonard Cohen, PJ Harvey, Exene Cervenka and lots more that I'm sure I'm forgetting right now.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Baraka_Guru

You mean like a ballad?

I guess what we're trying to prove (if anything) is that songs don't need to be all about the music. Much pop music, in my view, looks at words as secondary, rather than as important as the music that goes along with them. The best songs (again in my view) are those that are as lyrically strong (or stronger) as they are musically. A "song," traditionally, refers to a musical composition with voice. Musically, you have instrumentation that focuses on voice, but what that voice manifests doesn't have to be poetically (referring to "meaning and movement") vapid.

Good contribution, btw.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

roachboy

i dunno about this, comrade.
for example, "rock n roll" culminated lyrically in iggy stooge's immortal line "now i wanna be your dog." it says many things in the context of the stooges song. is it a great lyric? situationally, i think it is. on the page--well, take a look.

some of the most interesting poet/performers do sound poetry. (think the four horsemen)
sound poetry is self-evidently performance material.
i'm not sure where or how that'd fit into this thread.
does it matter really how it reads on the page?

this in the end loops back onto the topic itself---how do you balance performance-oriented vs visually oriented poetry?
seems to me that you're subordinating the former to the latter---which reflects an aesthetic preference, i assume--but can you really do that in the context of asking about song lyrics?
i would think that performance criteria would be more central than would its function/value on the page.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Baraka_Guru

Going to the visual is another game altogether.

And I acknowledge that certain sounds do not translate well on the page.

That said, there are many variables to take into account when deeming something poetically beautiful. Bryan Adams lyrics are banal, but I'm sure they can be recontextualized to be made beautiful. There is no infallible formula for these things.

"Lyrics" can refer to both the written word and the vocalized. Poetry can work either way as well.

This all relates to our topic at hand.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

roachboy

but not all poetry that reads well works well spoken--and vice versa.
and there are many instances where poetry that works well read can be performed in ways that reveal new aspects of the piece---so much that i think of these as different pieces (the text, the performance piece)--a curious example is a recording tha james joyce made of the anna livia plurabelle section of finnegans wake. it is almost a transformation of the text. the voice off the page isn't the same as that which you hear--and hearing the recorded voice changes how you read the text. to my mind, this is an optimal kind of relation--something that works one way on the page and other ways as performance.

i need to go find some dinner...

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Baraka_Guru

I don't disagree with you. I wasn't quite clear enough in my previous post. I mean to say that some poetry works mostly or entirely as vocalized, while other poetry works mostly or entirely as read on a page. It need not work both ways.

A recontextualization of any of it can reinvent its value.

Enjoy your meal.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

mixedmedia

I knew you were going to come back at me with something like that. Of course, some poetry is expected to be set to music, but most of it isn't. And that which isn't, isn't expected to conform to anything outside of certain structures that I know nothing about. It is what it is.
I feel the same way about music and its lyrical content. Some music is strong lyrically and some isn't. I think if I were to give it more thought, I could debate with you the idea that the best songs are those that are the strongest lyrically. Maybe because I am somewhat obsessed with music - all kinds of music - some of which has great lyrics, some of which has inane lyrics and some of which has no lyrics at all, therefore I do not think that words are as significant in deciding what is a great song as you do. Like rb said, I think it is more an aesthetic preference. And not such a surprising one, given what I know about you.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Baraka_Guru

Yes, even lyrics themselves can be pretty sounds. I should note that this isn't entirely about the meaning of words. roachboy has posted throughout this forum, "songs" that use words (sample loops) that have no real meaning to be communicated. In cases like these (and if we can call them lyrics), the meaning might seem trivial or ordinary, but I would say they are poetic because of how they are used. Poetry is sometimes more about form, rhythm, and texture than it is about meaning.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

mixedmedia

It also bears mentioning that recently I am listening to a lot of music that is sung in languages I don't understand, yet I relate to them just as I do Beatles songs or Radiohead songs or songs by any of the artists I mentioned above as being favorite songwriters. Speaking of Radiohead - one of the bands most dear to my heart - but Thom Yorke's lyrics would not make it onto my Top 20 of favored songwriters (if there were such a thing). Not to say that his lyrics are bad or not significant to the music, but they assume their place within the songs without being dominant. And sometimes its just like that.

Coincidentally, I am listening to a book on cd (in my car driving to work and back) that is about the unique way that human beings respond to music emotionally and mentally. I do believe a response to music is something more intuitive and immediate than the realization of words and their meaning. While that is exactly what poetry is about. They are two totally different things.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

biznatch

Pretty much anything by Souljaboy can hold it's own, poetically.

Soulja Boy Off In This Hoe
Watch me Crank It
Watch me Roll
Watch me Crank Dat Soulja Boy
Then Super Man Dat Hoe
Now, Watch me You...
(Crank Dat Soulja Boy)
Now, Watch me You...
(Crank Dat Soulja Boy)
Now, Watch me You...
(Crank Dat Soulja Boy)
Now, Watch me You...
(Crank Dat Soulja Boy)


(had to google the lyrics just to understand what they said)

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Check it out: The Open Source/Freeware/Gratis Software Thread

roachboy

i believe this settles the question:

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

jimk

someone keeps sayin
i'm insane to complain about
a shotgun wedding
and a stain on my shirt

"loser" by beck

Ok, so it's not beautifully poetic, but the alliteration running through this verse (and a lot of his other stuff) always interests me & makes me smile.

__________________
raw power is a guaranteed o.d.

raw power is a laughin' at you & me

-iggy