i want to appreciate jazz
 

i feel like i should learn to appreciate jazz, if i am going to be well rounded and all. thing is, i don't know how or where to start.

i've listened to alan holdsworth, jean luc ponty, dave brubeck. i consider sonny boy williamson blues, not jazz.

but someone like miles davis....i don't know how to appreciate it, i want to hear what makes him so important, but i dont' know what i'm listening to/for. can you not start with that? do you have to hear and know the stuff before him to get what he did?

any tips on what direction to go?

Topical: No less than 12 hours ago, I picked up an old record of Miles Davis' "Birth of the Cool". I have yet to re-install my combination record/cassette tape/cd player to give it a listen, but I will you my opinions of it in short order and a recommendation to be aware of the classic album, if warranted. (I think I'll love it, but that has yet to be determined)

I also like Brubeck's Quartet, so I guess you need no comments on his Time Out work.


I recently come across a sort of new jazz/otaku sound by this underground band recalling works by the honored composer/producer Yoko Kanno. I have found Japanese-revivalist Jazzists to be very critical of their take on the subject, most meticulous yet conscious enough to produce such beautifully-orchestrated works. Beside that digression, this hip-hop group looks to recreate that sound for this generation to appreciate.

Rayzd: Just Fade Away

http://cdbaby.com/cd/rayzd2 (you can preview the entire cd in its entirety by choosing the playlists to the right for dial-up or broadband)

I'd start with the standards. Vocals then instrumentals.

Vocals first as a means of easing in.

Old heads first. Find a song or few you actually like then look for it's covers

I wasn't a fan of Miles either, the first CD of his I got was Bitch's Brew. I didn't like it, it was that fusion crap. Later I took a chance and bought Kind Of Blue and heard why everyone loved his music.

Enjoy

But wait, why are you working at appreciating jazz? Either you're into it or no.

I appreciate The_Jazz. He corrects my spelling, grammar, and changes my diaper when I poop in the wrong thread.

i dont understand the reaction to miles' first electric period--alot of that music is amazing, way beyond the tepid "fusion" that was happening around him (largely becuase of him) at the time and well beyond the second electric period, during which miles became a kind of copy of himself (but at least i got to see him live in the process). purists: bah, humbug.

i'd start with on the corner, personally.

later coltrane, albert ayler, eric dolphy, mingus, monk, ornette coleman--work your way around.
there's no one way into the music.

for me, the band that changed everything was the art ensemble of chicago and it was seeing them live that did it.
i was 19. they blew my mind.
i had no idea that music could generate so much power, could pin you into your chair and make you unable and unwilling to move.

so my recommendation really about the best way to work your way into the music is to see alot of it done live. recordings are nice, but they're also tamer.

I'm no purist. It's just adding all that other crap to something that is already perfect....oh
Old Heads:rolleyes:

Not a big fan of the live stuff. They use too many set musician, of course if they had players onstage instead, I'd go just for the history of it.

Not sure what half of that means, but definitely ignore the advice not to go see live jazz. It is the best way to experience, well, any music really... especially something so highly improvised.

I was also just going to say Miles Davis - On The Corner.

To parrot roachboy, there is no single way into the music... it's 100 years old now and things took paradigm shifts every 10 years it seems (and it's still happening!)

My best advice is to get a recommended album, and find out who the sidemen were on the record. If you like Herbie Hancock from listening to him play keys on On The Corner, go and find his records... from there, you can play "1 degrees of separation" with any subsequent album you buy and make your own way through the scene. Jazz is about collective improvisation and a lot of the greats all played with each other, leaving us a great hidden map through the jazz universe.

I'd love to draw a map of how I found out all the artists I like. It'd probably start with Miles, then lead to Coltrane, then McCoy Tyner.... and so on...

Not the thread I thought it was.... :)

My tastes have always run more towards Count Basie and Louis Prima. Aberkok's advice is spot on for finding new artists and expanding your world. I think the best way in is to find something you like and start exploring from there. If you don't like Miles (!!!), working outwards from him won't really help you.

roachboy and aberkok have said most of what I wanted to say. Just two things.

First of all, jazz is exactly as accessible as you make it. A lot of folks seem to think they need to take classes in music appreciation or something in order to be able to listen to jazz, but so long as you can listen and enjoy it there's nothing to stop you. I won't deny that a solid grounding in theory will alter the way you listen to the music, but it isn't necessary by any means, and it'd be sort of odd to learn it all just to be able to apply it to listening. If you pick some stuff up while listening to various compositions, so be it. But really, all you need to appreciate jazz is a set of ears and a brain. As long as you've got that you're set.

Also, I'm sort of questioning your motives. It seems like you don't really want to appreciate jazz for the music so much as because you think it's the done thing. This is the wrong reason to get into any kind of music. Don't get me wrong, if you like the format I say more power to you; however, I don't advocate listening to jazz because you want to appear smarter or out of some misguided sense of obligation. Do it because you want to, not because you think you should.

And yeah. Other than that, do what roachboy and aberkok say. They know what they're talking about.

I know nothing of your music listening/study/playing background.

Another approach would be to start with the "best" of the earlier periods of the music. Like any artform.

Some suggestions:
Louis Armstrong Hot Five & Seven recordings
Jelly Roll Morton
Fats Waller
1930's Count Basie
1920's-1930's Duke Ellington

This gross simplification might be found at a good library.

I'd start with anything by Ella Fitzgerald, personally. Then do what aberkok suggested... when you listen to a Miles album and think "Man, that saxophonist is amazing!" then look up Charlie Parker, you've discovered someone new.

Also, lots of people will disagree with listening to smooth jazz or fusion to get you into it (the purists hate it especially), but I don't see anything wrong with listening to accessible stuff. Eventually you'll start to hear the jazz influences in modern R&B, pop, dance etc.

Check out the hornheads. Really great stuff. The old classics are the place to start. Most have already been mentioned. Then listen to the hornheads and even though it's modern jazz, these folks get it right. The lady playing bari sax is as fine a player as I've ever heard. My recommendations would be "Hornheads" and "Fat lip"

I might start less abstract and look to gypsy jazz, or Brazilian.

Chet Baker.

--jaded

If you don't know any music theory, try and learn some to understand what is going on. Find out what ii V I progressions are and listen to the changes and how the melody or improvised line works over it.

A good tip also depending on who you are listening to, is trying to hear the melody line of the song in your head as each player improvises over the changes. In time you will tell what is "in or out"

Have fun and be realistic. Jazz is an idiom. You don't have to like all jazz music to enjoy jazz.

I make my living as a Jazz musician/educator. You don't have to be a musician to appreciate, love or know everything there is to know about Jazz music. It's a complex music, it's a music that requires a lot of investment into the music as a listener. You cannot listen to jazz the same way you listen to pop music for example, you have to be involved. I'm almost finished a graduate degree in Jazz and I don't listen to the music analysing every note or rhythm, that's for me when I am practicing, but when I am listening that's another story, I'm not any different then a typical jazz fan even though I could very well be on the stage playing that night instead of sitting in the audience digging it. Knowing something about music sure helps, but it is the equivalent of the sprinkles on the ice cream sundae.. it's nice, it adds to it but if you didn't have the sprinkles you'd still love the sundae

My suggestion for you is to go to see the music live. This is where Jazz is at it's undeniable best. The music is about risk, improvisation and the dynamic between those on stage and those in the audience. Listening to CD's is great and obviously important. Depending on where you live you could have a drop dead awesome jazz scene and would get to experience it first hand, not the 2nd take studio version of a tune.

Hi Squeeeb,

I, too, felt the same way for a long time. I had only listened to rock, pop, and blues when growing up. Jazz was always so "discordant" and "non-melodic" for my ear to appreciate. Then I stumbled upon a documentary
on PBS , Ken Burns' "Jazz", (can be rented from video stores) and I learned the history and development of Jazz in its many forms. Specifically (for me, as I already understood blues) learning how Jazz grew from its roots in the Louisiana delta , evolving through the decades since, gave me a whole new perspective.
Sure, there are critics that said it focused too much on some artists, and omitted others, but overall this served as a wonderful and essential introduction for me and I highly recommend it. Right now, I'm enjoying the genius of Thelonious Monk (how's that for discordant and non-melodic!), something which I could never begin to comprehend before. Hope you find this helpful.

Man, if you don't like jazz, don't try to force it. What I do with music, everytime I've fallen in love with a new artist/genre, I wasn't trying to. Either I was doing something completely unrelated, hanging out someplace, and heard the song. Or watched a movie with the song in it.
The context of how you perceive a song is very important. Listening to a song of jazz to get into jazz is kind of like reading math theorems to learn that part of Calculus...the brain doesn't get "surprised" by it, or spontaneously perceive it as an unexpected pleasure, but more as a chore. At least that's my opinion on the subject.

don.to - great recommendation, I forgot about that documentary. Excellent stuff.

My opinion on jazz (take it easy fellas. . .it's just my opinion) 99% is pure masturbatory crap, the other 1% is pure genius.

I cannot stand to listen to most modern jazz. The only people I know who can are other modern jazz musicians.

The classics of each era are good places to start.

An outstanding list of recommendations in my humble opinion.

jesus christ.
the same old lame old....

"musicians music" as if that's a bad thing.
so musicians owe it to you to make stuff that requires no effort, asks nothing of you.
we're servants and our job is to provide entertainment.



you make me laugh.

I'll echo something that has been said: getting out there and experiencing live Jazz in all its glory, there really isn't anything quite like it. I would have been 13-14 when Jazz found me, just a local Jazz/Funk outfit playing a couple sets, and so my journey into Jazz begun :D

The doco don.to has recommended is good, but it really doesn't go into any detail on the modern period (post 1970) but a good primer on Jazz's history and roots.

Some personal recommendations:

Freddie Hubbard
Clifford Brown
Jaco Pastorius
Weather Report
John Coltrane - Giant Steps
Wayne Shorter - Speak No Evil
Bill Evans

Just to name a few :)

So ... how did it go? Do you appreciate jazz now?

In my opinion you shouldn't have to learn to appreciate anything ... either you do or you don't. As a musician I can certainly appreciate some of the complex structures that some jazz musicians can achieve. I can also appreciate nursery rhymes.

I don't go out of my way to listen to either genre. I don't feel inferior when I decide that I don't care for a certain piece of music or style.

If you never learn to appreciate all the different types of jazz music then you shouldn't worry about it. You don't have to appreciate any specific type of music to be a "well-rounded" person or musician.

This advice is spot on. Do this. Much of my jazz appretiation course was just watching and discussion the episodes of this. Now I love jazz. :thumbsup: Ironically, I loves me some Monk, also!

+1 for Ken Burns' documentary Jazz, a great place to start.

Do an internet search for The Top 100 Jazz Albums, then check YouTube & other music sources for performances & recordings by those artists. It'll take some time & effort, but you should get a good a idea of what type of jazz works for you.

I enjoy bebop, cool (not to be confused with smooth), & modern (a type of jazz, not recent jazz). Free Jazz is too out there for me, but I also have the musical apptitude of a rock :shakehead:.

I like almost all music. But then I was a music major for two years before deciding it was easier to play the radio than brass and strings. I wouldn't have backed percy's suggestion to learn about chord porgressions normally, but I find myself doing it in my head for almost any music I listen to.

My personal favorite is Herbie Hancock, not from the elctrified fusion stuff from the 80's, but back when he was with Blue Note. "Cantaloupe Island" and "Watermelon Man" are a very fun listening experience. Kind of a gateway drug.

If you want, read about some of the musician's lives. Most of them were fascinating.

This is good advice. It really helps to be able to both hear and see how the music is put together and how it comes together—how it's constructed and deconstructed.

Live is the way to go, or you may never really get the feel for jazz.