Haters

[thespian86]

Something that has really been bothering me as of late are Haters. People who post/provide their opinion on a band, a singer, a genre of music, etc, without stating a reason why they dislike them. And if they do, it is something generic, or a simple cop out; this leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth.

First of all I think it shows a total lack of respect for The Band. The Band are all people, these people work hard at what they do; these people have a fan base. This fan base is mostly some of the community you call yourself a part of. These people are more then likely much better musicians then we will ever be.

Second, the responses lack any substance at all. The arguments made against bands are based on a lack of any knowledge of the band or their work most of the time.

That leads me to my third point. I would suspect that these claims are made in complete ignorance of the band and their work. People compare them to genres of old, bands who are past their prime, etc. This is unfair. I don't understand the growth or logic that comes from saying a band is not another band. Isn't this obvious already? Even then, isn't it just belittling the newer of the two for the sake of being an asshole? Why state that "rap sucks". I really dislike that word, the word "sucks". By stating that "rap sucks" you are saying that every artist in the genre is a bum. What is funny to me is that the person who states this has probably heard less then one percent of what the world has offered in the genre of rap. I do not enjoy listening to rap. But rap artists are still extremely talanted in their genre. I do not hate them. They do not suck.

Please, explain to me why they suck? Could you explain why a singer is not good? Could you tell me, technically, why a guitarist is not talanted?

Or rather, could you state why you don't enjoy them? Just because you don't like them doesn't mean they suck, doesn't mean their bad, and doesn't mean they are untalanted. Talant is not a preference, it is a state achieved.

My annoyance is found mostly in the blatent disregard of respect for the artists and the ignorance found in said disregard. In our own Tilted Exhibition, disrespect and inappropriate comments are not tolerated. I don't see how they are here.

This is not only a rant, but rather a question. How do you feel about Haters, what is tolerated and not tolerated in music, or art in general, and where is respect? Does it have a place in music, or do we have the right to by pass that?

Thank you

[vanblah]

I think what you are describing is more a lack of tolerance than anything. I have a high tolerance for almost any kind of art no matter how annoying it may seem to be on a superficial level.

Your first point about lack of respect for "The Band" is true to a point ... respect, in my opinion, is something that is earned. If a band has indeed put in a lot of time and effort to master their craft then I have utmost respect for them regardless of whether I enjoy the music.

Second, people are opinionated and will express their opinion whether or not they can back that opinion up with facts or experience. A lot of people are also "followers" meaning that if a given band or genre falls outside their realm of experience then it is "crap."

Third, and this one is particularly true of people who grew up in the 70's and 80's, is that we have grown up to be mainly deconstructionist and derivative. This shows up in critiques of music as well as the music itself. I myself have described my band as Pixies meets Velvet Underground meets Talking Heads meets Supertramp. Does this mean that we sound like any of those bands? Maybe. We certainly don't set out to "sound like" anything in particular. But people have some kind of need for categories.

When I say that I don't enjoy a particular band I usually have hard-facts and experience to back it up. For instance, I don't like contrived whiny, nasally singing--why? I find it annoying. I like John Prine though ... but then his voice is not contrived; that's the way he talks. I don't like Autotune to the point that it makes me almost angry. I can hear an Autotuned song almost as soon as a singer starts singing. Of course, the technology is getting better.

Anyway, you get the point.

To answer your question: I don't feel anything about Haters specifically and of course, respect has a place in everything and should never be bypassed.

[Redjake]

The music world has a lot of haters. That's definitely true. Moreso than any other entertainment genre, I would say. People scoff at your choice of music. It's usually because they are so caught up in their own interests, they forgot that other music exists, and if it's not their music, it "automatically sucks." I know exactly what you are talking about, and it doesn't happen solely on the Internet. Happens a lot in real life, too. I think the most famous "hater" scenario is the popular "anything that's played on the radio SUCKS!" type. You mention like like something that is on the radio, and the "cool kids" are like "heh," or something like that. Or "um, try listening to REAL music."

It's true that a lot of what's on the radio is trash today, but some of it is still awesome. A lot of people are too "cool" to listen to the radio. They associate being "signed" with "selling out." Even though none of them would complain if THEIR garage band hit it big

[vanblah]

Originally Posted by Redjake

Even though none of them would complain if THEIR garage band hit it big

Actually, some people do. I hear this a lot: "Man <i>so-and-so</i> was great before they signed with Atlantic but now they suck."

What is wrong with a little success I wonder? I'll never understand the stereotypical hipster* mentality of hating anything that becomes commercial and having to always be the first to have heard of something.

*I say stereotypical because not all hipsters are like this. Most of my hipster friends are quite cool and don't act this way at all. Probably what I mean is "poser" but I'm not cool enough to know the difference really.

[roachboy]

one element of this is easy to explain (if irritating to endure): music is here understood as entertainment, so it comes with no particular obligation to have the faintest idea what you are talking about....and folk use their consumption patterns to differentiate themselves from others.
so much of what is complained about in the op can be explained by just adding the two claims together.

easiest way to disabuse yourself of the illusion that other forms of music (that you do not do yourself) are easy is to try to do them. think writing pop songs is easy? try it. it's not easy. you think writing a hook is easy? try it.

i personally dislike bluegrass intensely, mostly because my brother is a banjo player and i grew up hearing him practice (that'll do it for anyone, no matter the style--he feels the same way about what i do, i am sure)--but it does not follow that because i dislike the form that i do not respect the musicianship that is required to play it--again, try it yourself if you want to get a sense of the ways in which it requires considerable attention to craft to play well.

i am a pianist and spend alot of time working with the instrument--but i listen to all kinds of stuff that has nothing to do with either my instrument or the sort of things i like to do or hear that involve it. like hip hop: i like turntablists. it is easy peasy to make noise with a couple of 1200s and a fader: but it is really not easy to do anything interesting. the level of skill involved in some of the battle crews is staggering. listen to q-bert sometime. listen to the x-ecutioners. dj craze or dj/rupture. try and do even a fraction of what these folk can manage with 2 or 3 turntables.
or try to rhyme and not look like an ass doing so.
flow is not easy.
at the production level, even if alot of the production in hip hop is technically quite simple to put together, the ear that is required to do it well is not easy to acquire. much of production is about being able to listen. listening is a skill.

you get the same kind of goofball responses to alot of contemporary art: folk walk into a gallery, see an installation and say "i could have done that"...but of course, they didn't do that, and they won't do that. generally, this is little more than a substitution of groundless smugness for engagement. it happens all the time. that is why it makes little sense to take seriously what an audience says to you about a gig . whether its positive or negative, you are still entertainment and because you're entertainment, there needs be nothing behind what anyone says about the experience. in general, you smile, say
"thanks" and move toward the bar.

[divagrrrl]

Originally Posted by Redjake

Even though none of them would complain if THEIR garage band hit it big

Sure they would... once they figure out that by signing on the dotted line they just got financially raped with no lube.



Meh... haters will be haters. My job is not to try to please them. It is to make the music I want to make. I think many artists feel the same.

I suppose the people who "hate" on a certain genre or artist are likely close-minded in other areas of life; perhaps they are insecure and feel threatened by the unfamiliar? Or maybe they have such low self esteem that they must insult others to feel superior. :shrug: Who knows. I don't listen to them.

[Jinn]

Then again, if I said I liked Justin Timerlake, Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, and Prince - I think you'd be hard pressed to hold back your negative opinions about those artists.

"They're not musicians," or "they're not really singing" or "i'm going to vomit" are common declarations, but it's 'hating' just like saying a band sucks.

I've stopped discussing music in general, because everyone thinks they're an expert in music. Some people prefer guitar, so they hate rap for the simple reason that it doesn't contain a guitar. Some people prefer meaningful lyrics, so they hate music without. Some people hate guitars, so they hate country and rock.

And the problem is that they're all "right" in hating that type of music. You can never empircally argue preference in music, even if you think you're an expert.

And since everyone is right and no one is wrong, you get a lot of self-declared experts who spout their opinions regularly.

So I resolved to simply listening to what I like and allowing others to listen to what they like. If they ask, I like it all.

[Mantus]

Don't hate the haters! (couldn't help myself)

Why do ya care? Let them do their thing. Makes life really easy cuz you know not to waste your breath on them and save your time and thoughts for people who are open to your ideas.

[divagrrrl]

I have only one criterion to label music "good." If the music is true to its intent, whether that intent is art, entertainment, financial gain, experimentation, inspiring bloody moshpits, or simply self-expression... then it is good. Why try to qualify the human spirit? A song which pleases a listener is one soul touching another. Some just get touched more than others.

[thespian86]

Originally Posted by JinnKai

Then again, if I said I liked Justin Timerlake, Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, and Prince - I think you'd be hard pressed to hold back your negative opinions about those artists.

Well I've never heard any of the musicians live. I do know that when I hear a song by these artists it is catchy; well written in their genre. Justin Timberlake is talanted, look at what he did with the world in the span of three years. I don't listen to any of these artists exclusively but I am often humming "Hurt" or "Sexyback" or "Kiss".

I'm not saying this to be a smug asshole who refuses to be proved wrong, it's just how I feel. I just feel like my generation has lost one of the greatest things in art; appriciation.

I understand what you're saying Jinn and it's a great point but I still feel this way

Originally Posted by Mantus

Don't hate the haters! (couldn't help myself)

Why do ya care? Let them do their thing. Makes life really easy cuz you know not to waste your breath on them and save your time and thoughts for people who are open to your ideas.

I care because it's who I am; I've been studying performance in some aspect my whole life, who I am has always been a performer; mostly non-musical, but, yes, I've sung and played parts in musical theatre. Quite a few if I think about it. I've studied rudimentry music theory in high school and first and second year university. I play, fairly well, six instruments. I listen to music and smile. Music makes me smile. It upsets me when people try to take that from me, and from my peers. I don't expct anyone to like everyone, I just hope that people have enough respect for their peers to respect their choices.

Thats why I care. Maybe.