Cummins vs. Duramax - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

ziadel · 12-29-2005, 08:52 AM

well, the thread says it all...
I want a new truck and I figure, eh, why not get a diesel

Heres what I am considering so far

Duramax's had injector issues, not sure if they went away or not
The Chevy has CV joints up front (not thrilled about that)
The Dodge has a Cummins, a lot of people who are not Dodge people are buying Dodges JUST to get that engine
I hate Ford, so don't even mention them
The Duramax is detuned when mated to a manual transmission (fucking STUPID if you ask me, I want a manual)

what say you on the query?

Scorps · 12-29-2005, 11:19 AM

Cummins are good but I worked in a dodge dealer and those things always seemed to have head problems, If you get one of those tuning kits you could get some mad power out of a diesel and Chevy can handle the power. I never owned a diesel but my bro's work truck has a chevy deisel and it has just under 700,000 on it and still running without a rebuild

RotEx · 12-29-2005, 12:02 PM

dodge statistically has the most probelms out of the big 3 by almost 175% chevy's duramax is the most powerful motor on the market at the moment, the cummins is not the greatest motor any more, it was amazing when it came out, and was the industry leader for a long time, but Fords power stroke is MUCH better then the cummins now (i know dont mention ford, but its important that you know) and really if you think about it, do you know where the cummins CAME from? yup, you guessed it, FORD! they sold the rights for it to dodge a while back, and dodges contract ran out and had to give it back to ford, but ford said fuck it, we dont want it, and sold it to dodge again, because the powerstroke block is a MUCH better system. besides.. do you REALLY only want a straight 6? i know I dont...

anyways, if it were ME, id be buying the new ford super duty power stroke, AND IM A CHEVY GUY, im a chevy guy all the way, but the new ford is far superior to anything right now, they even come standard with electric brake modules!! how cool is that? anyways, if your HELL bent on not buying ford id get the chevy, the dodges have serious drive train problems and are VERY rought rides, extremely stiff, duramax is nice and quiet and a nice ride and not NEARLY the amount of problems...

DEI37 · 12-29-2005, 02:48 PM

The PowerStroke isn't much of an engine reliability-wise. The old 7.3PS was FAR superior to this new 6.0. This current Duramax is a good engine, though this aluminum head/iron block thing makes me nervous. That said, the Chevrolet/GMC trucks look better (my opinion) inside and out than the new Fords. I like the Cummins engines, though I wasn't aware of the issues with them.

ziadel · 12-29-2005, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RotEx

do you REALLY only want a straight 6? i know I dont...

all the tractor trailers are striaght sixes...

and if worse camer to worse and the injectors failed, I'd rather have to replace 6 injectors than 8...

I havent looked at the dodges looks wise yet, if the trucks are styled the same as the SUV's now (with that big lower lip front bumper jutting out) then forget it...

as for the dodge powertrain issues, I'm going manual, so it's not an issue.

merkerguitars · 12-30-2005, 07:23 AM

Here's my input, my dad owns a 1995 Cummins Diesel and my friend owns a 2001 with the 4 valve cummins.

First of all on my dads, we went through 4 transmissions (automatics) We blew up the stock one, another factory replacement, one rebuild by ourself and one from a big name rebuilder in our area. The fifth one we put in has so far lasted the longest and we doubt we will have any problems. The engine so far has been pretty damn reliable, we did have the rear oil seal go out, but that was cheap to fix. Also it has a power steering leak, on that year dodge the powersteering and vacuum pump are connected together, but we haven't replaced it with a rebuild one (I would think they have the bugs out of it yet). Its a pretty good truck we can pull start a semi in 2 wheel drive, we've had problems with the doors and stuff but my dad beats the living snot out of it.

My friends is a 2001 automatic, so far not a bit of problems and my dad is just starting to make him beat on his truck (he works for my dad).

BTW I haven't heard of injectors failing on these, usually when injectors fail in a diesel its cause you get idiots that add alot of diesel supplements and/or have water in the line (the dodges have a water warning light, plus a little lever you press under the hood to drain the water). If you get a manual you should be fine with a dodge, though the automatic with an aftermarket engine brake works slick.

cj2112 · 12-30-2005, 12:17 PM

First off Ford did not decided they did not want the Cummins, Dodge had an exclusive contract with Cummins when Ford bought Cummins. In the original contract Dodge negoatiated an option to renew the contract, which they chose to exercise. Ford would prefer to not have to purchase engines from International if they could have a wholly owned subsidiary manufacture them.

Now back on topic, why do you want a diesel?

Dodge was known for having automatic transmission problems with their diesel pickups in the mid 90's, however this is an issue that they seemed to have worked out.

DEI37 · 12-30-2005, 12:21 PM

Fuel mileage and general reliability. Those are reason enough for me.

ziadel · 12-31-2005, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj2112

First off Ford did not decided they did not want the Cummins, Dodge had an exclusive contract with Cummins when Ford bought Cummins. In the original contract Dodge negoatiated an option to renew the contract, which they chose to exercise. Ford would prefer to not have to purchase engines from International if they could have a wholly owned subsidiary manufacture them.

Now back on topic, why do you want a diesel?

Dodge was known for having automatic transmission problems with their diesel pickups in the mid 90's, however this is an issue that they seemed to have worked out.

first off, Ford does not own cummins. go look at cummins site, they even made a page adressing this. Ford does not own ANy part of cummins.

I want a Diesel because

1 - I drive a LOT
2 - I plan to tow a lot of welding equipment, which will also run off diesel
3 - I want a truck that will hit 300,000 miles no problem.

ziadel · 12-31-2005, 01:28 AM

the cummins site seems to be down so this will have to do:

http://www.hotroddiesel.ca/faq.htm

Quote:

Q: Doesn't Ford own Cummins? If the Cummins engine is so fantastic, why doesn't Ford use the Cummins engine?

Back in the early 90's, Ford bought less than 15% of outstanding Cummins stock. Many companies buy into other products to add diversity, corner a market, or form an alliance. In 1997, Cummins repurchased all stock previously owned by Ford, and no Ford management is now on the Cummins board of directors. Since 1998 in the pickup market, Cummins B engines are exclusively contracted to Chrysler, an arrangement that both companies are eager to continue. Ford medium duty (class 6 and 7) and heavy duty (class 8) trucks are available with Cummins B engines. Hey, if it's good enough for a Ford 10 ton truck, I think the Cummins B is adequate for my Ram pickup! You can keep your Power Stroke. :-)

cj2112 · 12-31-2005, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziadel

first off, Ford does not own cummins. go look at cummins site, they even made a page adressing this. Ford does not own ANy part of cummins.

I want a Diesel because

1 - I drive a LOT
2 - I plan to tow a lot of welding equipment, which will also run off diesel
3 - I want a truck that will hit 300,000 miles no problem.

the question of why you wanted a diesel was just that, a question, I was wondering what it was you expected out of a diesel. Now that you know you want a diesel, you need to understand the pro's and con's of owning a diesel. The pro's are obvious, fuel mileage and durability (which is not the same as reliability). Some of the cons are not so obvious and don't expect a dealer to point these out, they inclued parts availability (they are usually in in stock in the larger cities but if you happen to have a problem in BFE your gonna be waiting for parts to arrive), lack of knowlegdgeable people to repair them (again in larger cities your ok), a narrow power band, noise and smell. If the pro's outweigh the cons for you then by all means a diesel is not a bad choice.
You've decided against the Ford (I don't have much faith in the international engine myself), so it's really a decision of who's engine you prefer, the cummins or the detroit diesel, and who's body you like better. For me the chevy is a much better looking truck, but I prefer the cummins over the AM General/Detroit Diesel and I'd be buying the truck to use not to sit in my driveway and look good, so the dodge w/ the cummins wins out.

Scorps · 12-31-2005, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj2112

the question of why you wanted a diesel was just that, a question, I was wondering what it was you expected out of a diesel. Now that you know you want a diesel, you need to understand the pro's and con's of owning a diesel. The pro's are obvious, fuel mileage and durability (which is not the same as reliability). Some of the cons are not so obvious and don't expect a dealer to point these out, they inclued parts availability (they are usually in in stock in the larger cities but if you happen to have a problem in BFE your gonna be waiting for parts to arrive), lack of knowlegdgeable people to repair them (again in larger cities your ok), a narrow power band, noise and smell. If the pro's outweigh the cons for you then by all means a diesel is not a bad choice.
You've decided against the Ford (I don't have much faith in the international engine myself), so it's really a decision of who's engine you prefer, the cummins or the detroit diesel, and who's body you like better. For me the chevy is a much better looking truck, but I prefer the cummins over the AM General/Detroit Diesel and I'd be buying the truck to use not to sit in my driveway and look good, so the dodge w/ the cummins wins out.

Thast why im glad my uncle is a diesel engine mechanic, learned a lot from him, so even I have been think of getting a Duelly 4x4 diesel for my next truck

DEI37 · 12-31-2005, 01:59 PM

GM doesn't use Detroit Diesel any longer. The Duramax is an Isuzu Industrial engine. From what I've overheard, II makes a better diesel than even Cummins does. Take that with a grain of salt, but I've heard that.

cj2112 · 12-31-2005, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEI37

GM doesn't use Detroit Diesel any longer. The Duramax is an Isuzu Industrial engine. From what I've overheard, II makes a better diesel than even Cummins does. Take that with a grain of salt, but I've heard that.

If Gm is using the Isuzu diesel, then I'd definitely go GM, the Isuzu diesel is well known for it's durability.

ziadel · 12-31-2005, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj2112

If Gm is using the Isuzu diesel, then I'd definitely go GM, the Isuzu diesel is well known for it's durability.

the engine may be good, but unfortunately they've had injector problems...

and replacing 8 injectors will run you around 6 grand

DEI37 · 12-31-2005, 06:13 PM

Not if you buy new, it won't. Plus, I should think that is an issue they'd have ironed out by now.

mechanicman · 12-31-2005, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEI37

Not if you buy new, it won't. Plus, I should think that is an issue they'd have ironed out by now.

I think they are still having problems. A friend of mine and my dads bought a GMC 2500 with the Duramax in 2004 but it was a 2005 model. After 16000 miles he started having injector problems. He took it to both GMC dealers in the city we live in and neither of them could figure out how to fix the problem. Frustrated, he decided to trade it in and they paid top dollar for it.

The Cummins has been a good engine for my dad in his 98 Dodge. He's currently at 125000 miles, and has had no major problems. And most of the time a straight six will outlast a v-8.

Scorps · 01-01-2006, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziadel

the engine may be good, but unfortunately they've had injector problems...

and replacing 8 injectors will run you around 6 grand

Thats has been fixed

waltert · 01-03-2006, 11:23 PM

my dad got a duramax diesel in late 2004. its been 25000 miles since then, mostly hauling loads or towing. he put cooking oil in the tank and caused the fuel filter to clog. GM also had a TSB out for the fuel filters, so they replaced the filter for free.

the five speed automatic is nice and does a good job of engine braking in my opinion.

my friend (a ford tech) said that they have been having alot of problems with the 6.0 diesels, and will be discontinuing them.

also, i'd go with the automatic on a serious work truck. think about towing a trailer in traffic, then think about backing the trailer up to get it into wherever you need to go.

there will be alot of slipping of the clutch. a co worker of mine had a manual trans work truck that he used for hauling, etc and he went through 4 clutches in 3 years.

my reccomendation would be a chevy or ford (because of their auto transmissions being better than the dodges)

Scorps · 01-04-2006, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waltert

my dad got a duramax diesel in late 2004. its been 25000 miles since then, mostly hauling loads or towing. he put cooking oil in the tank and caused the fuel filter to clog. GM also had a TSB out for the fuel filters, so they replaced the filter for free.

the five speed automatic is nice and does a good job of engine braking in my opinion.

my friend (a ford tech) said that they have been having alot of problems with the 6.0 diesels, and will be discontinuing them.

also, i'd go with the automatic on a serious work truck. think about towing a trailer in traffic, then think about backing the trailer up to get it into wherever you need to go.

there will be alot of slipping of the clutch. a co worker of mine had a manual trans work truck that he used for hauling, etc and he went through 4 clutches in 3 years.

my reccomendation would be a chevy or ford (because of their auto transmissions being better than the dodges)

Thats the one thing chevy is known for it towing

hemiram57 · 01-06-2006, 09:25 AM

My dad has an 2002 duramax that just rolled over 100,000 miles. We have had zero problems with it. It has been a great truck. On a the other hand, a buddy of mine's family has like 6 or 7 cummins between them and swear by them. They have had problems with one of them, but it has been used hard, almost abused, so it is hard to say weather it is the trucks fault or theres. I would whole heartily reccomend a duramax though.

Mikey'56 · 01-11-2006, 10:24 PM

I would deffinately recommend a cummins, I have got an '89 dodge 1-ton with a 5 speed manual,
and it just will not bog!
I don't know if the new ones are as good as the old ones.

It gets close to 20 mpg!

RotEx · 01-12-2006, 06:16 AM

nothing is like the old ones...

12-29-2005, 08:52 AM	#1 (permalink)
ziadel Myrmidon Location: In the twilight and mist.	Cummins vs. Duramax well, the thread says it all... I want a new truck and I figure, eh, why not get a diesel Heres what I am considering so far Duramax's had injector issues, not sure if they went away or not The Chevy has CV joints up front (not thrilled about that) The Dodge has a Cummins, a lot of people who are not Dodge people are buying Dodges JUST to get that engine I hate Ford, so don't even mention them The Duramax is detuned when mated to a manual transmission (fucking STUPID if you ask me, I want a manual) what say you on the query? __________________ Ron Paul '08 Vote for Freedom Go ahead and google Dr. Ron Paul. You'll like what you read.

12-29-2005, 12:02 PM	#3 (permalink)
RotEx Crazy	dodge statistically has the most probelms out of the big 3 by almost 175% chevy's duramax is the most powerful motor on the market at the moment, the cummins is not the greatest motor any more, it was amazing when it came out, and was the industry leader for a long time, but Fords power stroke is MUCH better then the cummins now (i know dont mention ford, but its important that you know) and really if you think about it, do you know where the cummins CAME from? yup, you guessed it, FORD! they sold the rights for it to dodge a while back, and dodges contract ran out and had to give it back to ford, but ford said fuck it, we dont want it, and sold it to dodge again, because the powerstroke block is a MUCH better system. besides.. do you REALLY only want a straight 6? i know I dont... anyways, if it were ME, id be buying the new ford super duty power stroke, AND IM A CHEVY GUY, im a chevy guy all the way, but the new ford is far superior to anything right now, they even come standard with electric brake modules!! how cool is that? anyways, if your HELL bent on not buying ford id get the chevy, the dodges have serious drive train problems and are VERY rought rides, extremely stiff, duramax is nice and quiet and a nice ride and not NEARLY the amount of problems... __________________ everytime i turn around it is an illusion.

12-29-2005, 02:48 PM	#4 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	The PowerStroke isn't much of an engine reliability-wise. The old 7.3PS was FAR superior to this new 6.0. This current Duramax is a good engine, though this aluminum head/iron block thing makes me nervous. That said, the Chevrolet/GMC trucks look better (my opinion) inside and out than the new Fords. I like the Cummins engines, though I wasn't aware of the issues with them. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

12-30-2005, 07:23 AM	#6 (permalink)
merkerguitars Buffering......... Location: Wisconsin...	Here's my input, my dad owns a 1995 Cummins Diesel and my friend owns a 2001 with the 4 valve cummins. First of all on my dads, we went through 4 transmissions (automatics) We blew up the stock one, another factory replacement, one rebuild by ourself and one from a big name rebuilder in our area. The fifth one we put in has so far lasted the longest and we doubt we will have any problems. The engine so far has been pretty damn reliable, we did have the rear oil seal go out, but that was cheap to fix. Also it has a power steering leak, on that year dodge the powersteering and vacuum pump are connected together, but we haven't replaced it with a rebuild one (I would think they have the bugs out of it yet). Its a pretty good truck we can pull start a semi in 2 wheel drive, we've had problems with the doors and stuff but my dad beats the living snot out of it. My friends is a 2001 automatic, so far not a bit of problems and my dad is just starting to make him beat on his truck (he works for my dad). BTW I haven't heard of injectors failing on these, usually when injectors fail in a diesel its cause you get idiots that add alot of diesel supplements and/or have water in the line (the dodges have a water warning light, plus a little lever you press under the hood to drain the water). If you get a manual you should be fine with a dodge, though the automatic with an aftermarket engine brake works slick. __________________ Donate now! Ask me How! Please use the search function it is your friend. Look at my mustang please feel free to comment! http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=26985

12-30-2005, 12:17 PM	#7 (permalink)
cj2112 Unbelievable Location: Grants Pass OR	First off Ford did not decided they did not want the Cummins, Dodge had an exclusive contract with Cummins when Ford bought Cummins. In the original contract Dodge negoatiated an option to renew the contract, which they chose to exercise. Ford would prefer to not have to purchase engines from International if they could have a wholly owned subsidiary manufacture them. Now back on topic, why do you want a diesel? Dodge was known for having automatic transmission problems with their diesel pickups in the mid 90's, however this is an issue that they seemed to have worked out. Last edited by cj2112; 12-30-2005 at 12:19 PM..

12-29-2005, 11:19 AM	#2 (permalink)
Scorps Lost!! Location: Kingston, Ontario	Cummins are good but I worked in a dodge dealer and those things always seemed to have head problems, If you get one of those tuning kits you could get some mad power out of a diesel and Chevy can handle the power. I never owned a diesel but my bro's work truck has a chevy deisel and it has just under 700,000 on it and still running without a rebuild

12-30-2005, 12:21 PM	#8 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	Fuel mileage and general reliability. Those are reason enough for me. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

12-31-2005, 01:59 PM	#13 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	GM doesn't use Detroit Diesel any longer. The Duramax is an Isuzu Industrial engine. From what I've overheard, II makes a better diesel than even Cummins does. Take that with a grain of salt, but I've heard that. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

12-31-2005, 06:13 PM	#16 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	Not if you buy new, it won't. Plus, I should think that is an issue they'd have ironed out by now. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

01-03-2006, 11:23 PM	#19 (permalink)
waltert Insane	my dad got a duramax diesel in late 2004. its been 25000 miles since then, mostly hauling loads or towing. he put cooking oil in the tank and caused the fuel filter to clog. GM also had a TSB out for the fuel filters, so they replaced the filter for free. the five speed automatic is nice and does a good job of engine braking in my opinion. my friend (a ford tech) said that they have been having alot of problems with the 6.0 diesels, and will be discontinuing them. also, i'd go with the automatic on a serious work truck. think about towing a trailer in traffic, then think about backing the trailer up to get it into wherever you need to go. there will be alot of slipping of the clutch. a co worker of mine had a manual trans work truck that he used for hauling, etc and he went through 4 clutches in 3 years. my reccomendation would be a chevy or ford (because of their auto transmissions being better than the dodges)

01-06-2006, 09:25 AM	#21 (permalink)
hemiram57 Upright	My dad has an 2002 duramax that just rolled over 100,000 miles. We have had zero problems with it. It has been a great truck. On a the other hand, a buddy of mine's family has like 6 or 7 cummins between them and swear by them. They have had problems with one of them, but it has been used hard, almost abused, so it is hard to say weather it is the trucks fault or theres. I would whole heartily reccomend a duramax though.

01-11-2006, 10:24 PM	#22 (permalink)
Mikey'56 Upright Location: E. Tx	I would deffinately recommend a cummins, I have got an '89 dodge 1-ton with a 5 speed manual, and it just will not bog! I don't know if the new ones are as good as the old ones. It gets close to 20 mpg!

01-12-2006, 06:16 AM	#23 (permalink)
RotEx Crazy	nothing is like the old ones... __________________ everytime i turn around it is an illusion.