Your feelings towards SUVs?
 

Now I personally really dislike SUVs. The feelings boil down to mostly their fuel economy and emissions, and safety. I really think they're completely unneeded in 95% of the situations they're used in and there are much better alternatives available most of the time.

Basically, I'm interested in finding out how many people share my opinion

And even more so, I'm interested as to why people would choose SUVs over (what I consider to be) more practical vehicles.

So I take it you drive an electric car that gives off no emissions whatsoever.

Actually, I don't drive right now. Right now I walk or bike everywhere since I live in the city and it's only a 25 minute walk to university.

Given a good, reliable, affordable electric car, yes, I would drive one (when I buy a vehicle).

So I take it you drive an SUV and this is your defence?

And there is a large difference between a car which gives off some emmissions and an SUV that gives off a lot of emissions.

But I digress, I'm not trying to turn this into a flame war.

Well sort of; my girlfriend and I drive a Ford Escape and a Ford Ranger. One is technincally an SUV even tho it's pretty small and my Ranger could be considered in the same class. However, to clarify; I also dislike the big ass SUV's such as the Esclade, Lincoln Navigator, or Ford Expedition. They are big, ugly and dangerous.

So for the most part I agree with you. But it's all relative. Too many people are willing to throw stones at the SUV owners as the eco-enemy de jour, while they are driving around in 20-yr old VW vans that pollute more than any new H2.

So anyway, I appologize for attacking you in my first post, that wasn't my intent, and I commend you on your bicycle commute.

My wife and I own a Volvo 940 and a '98 Chevy Blazer 2-door, we also have 2 children. When we get the Blazer paid down enough it'll be traded in, right now my wife likes the Expedition (but I think she'd be happy in an Explorer as well).

Even though it's a hassle to get 2 children (18mo. & 3mo.) into the backseat of a 2-door Blazer, my wife prefers it to the Volvo because she's feels safer in it. Because she sits higher she has a more commanding view of what's ahead, the Blazer is 4WD so in winter months the added safety is there, and because the Blazer is still a truck she and the children are a little safer in some wreck scenerios (she's been rear-ended in the Blazer when she was 7mo. pregnant and all we had to do was replace the bumper and she and all babies were fine).

When we (or just herself) go somewhere with the kiddos it's like packing for an overnight stay... 2 children, 1 huge diaper bag (or 2 smaller ones), one monster baby stroller (able to hold 2 kids and storage for the diaper bags). All that takes up a lot of space and if it's time to go shopping we'll need the space for all that plus whatever we buy (groceries or whatnot). A Toyota Prius just can't compete when it comes to storage like an Explorer or Expedition.

Also, our house is not perfect (none are) and I make trips to the lumber yard or Home Depot for building supplies, landscaping supplies, etc. and that's where an SUV comes in real handy. Multiple sheets of drywall are NOT going to fit into a Honda Civic.

I'd like to pick up a used compact truck and use it for home improvement projects, but we just don't have the extra money or place to park it right now so an SUV fits our needs.

Yes, an SUV uses more gas than a car... there are more and heavier parts to move so the engine isn't as fuel efficient... that's just part of the cost of owning one. Today's engines are a hell of a lot more efficient than those of 10-15 years ago (there are a few engines so good that what comes out the tailpipe is cleaner what what goes in the intake! It's true.), so don't tell me that we're harming the environment by driving an SUV. Like someone said already, beat-up VW Vanagons are doing a lot more harm than anything I could buy today.

Different strokes for different folks.

If you want to exaggerate things how's this? If someone runs into me and my SUV all I have to do is replace a few body panels and I'm back on the road but if someone runs into your little econobox the whole thing is totaled so it'll take up space in a junkyard, dripping fluids and old flaking paint into Mother Earth. If someone runs into me and my SUV there's a good chance I'll walk away but if someone runs into you and your econobox, the fire dept./EMS will have to be called... fire trucks and ambulances pollute a HELL OF A LOT more than any SUV... not to mention the added cost to John Q. Taxpayer who has to pay for the emergency service run you caused.

My wife has an Eddie Bauer Explorer, and to be honest I was looking at trading it in on a Volvo S80. Then my 16 month old son and I were out for a drive and got T-Boned by a pickup truck. Caved in the whole side of the truck, and scared the SHIT out of me. My son and I were unhurt, and the truck took the full brunt of the impact.
Long story short, I will ALWAYS own an SUV for the safety. This just made me realize that they are safer than cars. Yes, the environment, pollution.. yada yada yada. My families safety comes first.

Ahh, memories of hauling plywood and drywall with my dad in our old Honda Civic hatchback. Except for weight issues, the thing could haul anything (and possibly more) than any SUV could. We both thing that 1986 Honda Civic was quite possibly one of the best vehicles of it's time

Good point. Thank god it's not the case that these SUVs are that bad. But to be fair, most people aren't making the choice betwen buying a Navigator and a VW Van.

What about to poor shmuck who hits your SUV? You don't mind sending him to the ER? The problem isn't really when said econobox get's in an accident, it's when said econobox gets in an accident with an SUV. A few years ago, I was driving one of those econoboxes when I happened to rear end a SUV. Basically, my car went right underneath the SUV. It caused approximately $2000 worth of damage to the car, and about $100 to the SUV (little touch up of paint). Now if I were to have gotten in the same accident with another car, the forces would have been more evenly spread over the 2 cars, and more importantly, the forces would have been on the bumpers. The total damage between the 2 vehicles would have been much less.

But please, if you're looking into buying a new vehicle, which your 2 small children are going to be in, do some research on vehicle safety, and think about everybody's safety, there's children in the other cars on the road too.
Here's a link to get you started:
http://www.suv.org/safety.html

I know it's biased, but it's just to get you thinking.

there are alot of people who drive SUVs and dont need them. I think that a push towards higher gas prices could put the squeeze on americans pockets like it needs to be.

Here is our forecast for the weekend:

Wanna know how many people I have had to help around here during snowstorms when their "efficient" little cars get stuck? Hell, not too long ago, I needed 4WD just to back out of my garage so that I could take my sister-in-law to work (her car was stuck).

"Practical" is your opinion, hardly based on anything factual. For a family of five, in Colorado, SUV's are very, very practical. And, I use mine for more than just snow days.

What about older cars on the road? I also have a 1991 Toyota that doesn't get much better mileage than my SUV.

Older cars do not usually get good mileage. Why do most people drive older cars? Maybe because they can't afford a new, more efficient car. So, your answer is to stick it to them at the gas pump too?

"a push towards higher gas prices" = raise taxes.

Its called personal freedom. I want to drive an SUV, so I do. You don't want to, so don't. Don't tell me what to drive, how to live, etc.

Anyway, do you really think that SUV emmissions are any worse than the ones from a lot of the POS cars that I see all over the road, every single day?????

So how is it the SUV owners fault that you CHOSE to drive a smaller car that is unsafe in an accident against a larger vehicle? Should all cars be banned because if they are in an accident with somebody on a motorcycle the motorcycle rider might be injured? What about if the guy on the motorcycle hits a pedestrian? Should we ban motorcycles because they put pedestrians at risk?

I live in San Jose, California and the nastiest weather we get here is rain. So unless you're trekking up to the Sierras every weekend in the winter, I don't see too much need for them where I live.

My major beef is when the drivers think they can perform like sports cars and thus drive that way. or the drivers who try to jam them into compact parking spaces. Like, hello?! So I guess its mostly just the drivers who irk me.

Conversely, why stop at SUVs? Why not by a full-fledged tank?

I dont really car if people drive SUVs or not, if its what they want and dont mind the gas mileage, hey why not. Some drive them because they feel safer, and they dont want a minivan or truck.

SUVs are not needed in Colorado, at least not the Expedition, Escalade, LandDestroyer versions. What about an AWD drive model from Subaru or Volvo? Both have current models that get up to 32 mpg. That mileage doesn't happen with SUVs.

I don't have a problem with families having SUVs if they feel that it fits their needs. I am all for individual freedom when it comes to selecting what you drive and how much you pay for it. I do find it a little bit funny when I see one person, alone, driving these monsters to work each day. Also the bias that most people have against the station wagon (basically a squashed down SUV) and the minivan. Those vehicles have pretty much all of the same attributes as the average SUV, except for the towing capacity and truck chassis. Really, how many soccer moms are towing home a trailer filled with 8000 pounds of alfalfa hay?

because they're not street legal, and have you ever been in a tank? They're not the most comfortable mode of transportation :D

Very simple answer to this one: my cars are paid for. Why should I immerse myself in debt to placate someone else?

"I am all for individual freedom" followed by a critique of an individual that is free to drive whatever they want to drive. It is not up to you to define what fits anyone's needs but your own. Your sentence #2 is completely contradicted by the first and last sentence of this part of your post.

My Explorer: 18-20 MPG
My In-Law's Minivan: 20-22 MPG.

They weigh almost the same, they are almost the same size, why criticize one type of vehicle over another that is pretty much equal?

What if they use it to tow a boat or a trailer on the weekends? It is a multi-purpose vehicle, i.e. suits more than one purpose. It gets me to work. It gets me through snow. It takes me on trails. It hauls a bunch of people. It will tow a trailer. It also carrys all of the crap I have to buy at Sam's to stock a family of five.

One vehicle suits all of these needs. (BTW, I think Subaru's are ugly and I won't drive a minivan)

Anyway, I don't think I have the right to tell other people what to drive, it is a personal decision. Don't spout your beliefs about "individual freedoms" and then go on to condemn people expressing their individual freedoms.

California's SUV Ban - The Golden State has outlawed big SUVs on many of its roads but doesn't seem to know it. By Andy Bowers
excerpt:
:lol:

the GVWR is not only the vehicle, but it's passengers and cargo. Lets use the suburban as an example....it has a curb weight of 5268 lbs. True the GVWR is 7000 lbs, but that is fully loaded. Lets say there are 2 adults @175 lbs. each and two children at 100 lbs. each, that still leaves us under the 6000 lb limit.

woah.. that's pretty amazing.. thanks for the link...

I have no problems with SUVs. They really aren't my style as if I was going to get a monster vehicle it would be a Quad cab F-250. But if they want to drive a gas guzzling money pit let them.
They pollute too much....so do half the rattle traps on the road.
They guzzle too much gas...they are paying for it so what's the problem?
They are unsafe...they are unsafe for the other dude not the person driving. If you feel unsafe around SUVs get a beater pick up truck and go to town.
They are unnecessary for the most part. So are most cars with power levels greater than 80 horsepower but if I want it and can afford it it's up to me and me alone.

There's also 4 wheel drive cars. Also remember, 4 wheel drive doesn't really help you stop better, it only helps you get going better. If it's to the point where you can't get out of where you're going, it's probably a good idea to not go anywhere. In fact, last weekend in some places in Nova Scotia, there was over a foot of snow in just one night, followed up by a bit of freezing rain.

And for the record, I live in Nova Scotia, we've gotten some pretty (re: really heavy) snowfalls out by my parents place. Our light little front wheel drive cars could get through almost anything with a decent set of tires on it.

I'm sorry, but this argument seems asinine. Your solution to being safer from large dangerous vehicles is to drive larger, more dangerous vehicles? We're talking about transportation, not an arms race. The larger the vehicle, the larger the moving mass. The larger the moving mass, the larger the force. The larger the force, the more destruction it can cause. Things will only get worse if everybody drives bigger vehicles.

I'm sorry if I seem a little aggresive in this post, I don't mean it to come off that way.

SUV? I don't hate them but I don't want one. For the most part I'm happy to let people drive whatever they want to drive, however ridiculous. I drive a very small car too. I just assume they don't see me, much as I do when I ride a motorcycle.

Where I'm from (Tampa, Florida) there is almost no need for an SUV. The ground is flat, and most of it is road. SUVs are a status symbol here. I see college aged girls driving their escalade all around town and just wonder all the time. My good friend just recently bought a Toyota Forerunner and its really nice, but he rarely uses it for anything other than driving to work. His initial rationale for buying the car was to carry all of his DJ equipment, but I don't think he's ever carried something that couldn't have been transported in a sedan.
For other people, the SUV has replaced the Minivan A great deal of families are getting SUV whereas a few years ago they would have purchased a van.
I generally think that SUVs are less versatile than minivans because they have less room and generally cost more. But, minivans are ugly, whereas SUVs look pretty good.

My feelings on SUV's...



Totally awesome to crash/total in the woods.

that's not my solution, but to me it seems "asinine" to whine about a class of vehicles because your vehicle is smaller. My point was not to drive bigger vehicles. my point was if you CHOOSE to drive a vehicle in which you are more likely to sustain an injury if you were to be involved in a collision w/ a large vehicle, then you know the risk you take. Your CHOICE is NOT the SUV owners responsibility.

this was part of CA senate summary for the recent Ca bill to repeal thier 30 year rolling exemption.

the other thing that needs brough to light is that Fuel economy and emissions are not linked. Europes high fuel economy cvars will not pass emissions here. Take the motor out of the H2, drop it in a corvette and you will see 30mpg. the H2's dismal fuel economy comes form its weight and aerodynamics of a garage door.

as for the whole SUV thing, they work for some and not for others. i got one cherokee i use as a utility vehicle (ie takig the dog to the beach, or getting stuff formt he store) and a RX-7 to drive around for fun. however i can appreciate the popularity of the SUV, as it is quite versatile.

I drive a 2003 Toyota 4Runner and I don't know what I would do without it. My dog is a spaz when riding in a vehicle so I need to put her in a crate. That crate would never have fit in my last vehicle, a 1997 Saturn SL1. I barely fit in there! I live in Wisconsin where the snow can be very heavy. It is great for getting through the deep or heavy snow. I have a 15 gallon tank and I can go close to 300 miles on a single tank of gas. Where is the problem with that?

Ego??
 

Im inclined to agree with the marq. SUV's are OK for their pupose, so long as you are not buying bigger to increase your ego.

ive got a 93 ford explorer...

its great for moving in and out of the dorms... i can fit a fullsize couch in the back with the seats down and close the gate... and i can just pile a mountain of my stuff in the back for moving it to storage....

and i can get 9 or 10 friends, lay down the seats and fit everyone....

i go rock climbing and camping a lot (not as much as in the past... darn geographically deprived lubbock) the extra clearance is very nice for some of the dirt roads... ive never really felt like ive really needed the 4x4... but its there if i need it...


after i get out of school and start making money i'll prolly buy something a lot smaller and a lot more fun to drive...

This thread would fit well in the Politics section.

I drive a Cherokee and what I like the most is the high clearance. I'm able to better see the road around me and having the vehicle so high off the ground makes is so much easier to change my own oil and do any maintenence work needed below. Plus, I can drive over curbs and medians if need be.

Its a matter of personal choice, and it always seems that SUV haters are the same group of people who are against the "conservative agenda" that "threatens to restrict our freedoms." Well shit, you can't have it both ways. Freedom for all or freedom for none, not just freedom for the some that agree with your views.

I plan on buying a new vehicle this coming year and its going to be a bigass pickup. Maybe a Dodge Ram 1500 (maybe the diesel 2500) or maybe that new Nissan. That truck is huge. I also plan on purchasing a boat, so you can see the need for a truck to haul it around.

my statements about SUVs are encompassed by just wanting them to be on the same CAFE standards that cars are....

a mandatory increase of 17mpg over 20 years is appalling.

If I had the money I'd get an SUV, something about being up so high with the nice leather seats and all the bells and whistles. It's the same with getting a Hummer, it's not about the practicality, it's about the image

I would expect to see more fuel efficient cars (including SUV's) coming onto the market sooner than the 20yr plan if the price of oil continues to rise. Its all a matter of incentives to the manufactures and consumers, government can be a guiding hand, but no real change comes about unless it is provoked within the free market.

Remember to pack out what you pack in.

gm already has the hybrid silverado out, and in 2007 it will be carried over to the Yukon/sububran family. the H2 is slated to recieve the duramax and allison as an option as well here in the next year or two. the H1 is suppose to be getitng it next year.

once hybrid technology comes to cars that people can actually buy and use, then you will start to see a decrease in oil consumption.

As long as people are willing to pay for the gas, pay the gas guzzler tax (should really be an environmental impact fee,) and learn to drive the things safely, I have no right to tell them what to drive. I may stereotype them and make jokes about them for the enjoyment of those in my car, but I'm not going to start telling people what to drive or question what they need a certain vehicle for.

I am an evironmentalist.

Fact: Global levels of Oxygen are depleting.
Fact: Global levels Carbon Dioxide are increasing.

Coal and Oil are the reasons for these two facts.

Hybrid cars are essentially the same as gasoline cars. 85% of America's electricity comes from burning coal. Electricity power from coal has essentially the same pollution capacity as gasoline burning power.

The problem isn't SUVs, the problem is the stranglehold that oil and coal has on our species. Oil and coal are essentially stored carbon from plant life eons ago. We burn it and it goes back into the atmosphere.

Until we can generate energy without burning carbon, it doesn't matter whether our cars are bigger or smaller. SUVs are simply a scapegoat. All cars pollute, SUVs just do it slightly more.

clean energy is a reality, just not economical.

Ride your bike. Or walk. Cars make you fat.

City folks driving around on city streets in 4W drives always gets a laugh out of me. "Look at me, I'm driving a 4wheel drive that I'll never take off road".
Different strokes for different folks I suppose, but I still think the image is ridiculous.

As for driving around in snow,get a set of chains, learn how to use them and save a shit load of cash. A 4WD won't stop any better than a 2WD in snow.

This is the worst arguement for someone to not buy an SUV ever. So you are saying that since YOU rearended him (100% in the wrong if rearending some I will remind you) that he should be buying a car to protect your dumb ass? I think not. Thats exactly the reason most people buy big/lifted trucks/SUV's. I am an attentive driver, drive well, and am fairly confident that I will not cause an accident that is my fault. Therefore if someone else runs into me and its their fault, I could give a fawk what happens to them or how much damage is done to their car, becuase it is their fault and theirs alone. Some guy rearended my dad in his Jeep at a stoplight going about 30mph and totalled out his neon whereas my dad's Jeep got a 1" scratch in the plastic bumper because the trailer reciever stopped the car before even getting to the jeep. We own 4 SUV's and leave the trailer drop balls in all of them for that express purpose. Don't rearend me and your car wont get fawked up, its that simple.

splck, you obvioulsy don't live anywhere that gets erratic snowfall, or own a set of tire chains yourself because its not like they are easy or even convenient to use. Maybe in the mountains in a blizzard, but for everyday driving with slush/snow/ice crap on the ground such as we get in MN. It's not like im going to go throw tire chains on my truck to get milk from the store or pick something up or go to school. 4wd doesn't help you stop but if you live that the top of a big hill out in the country in a state that gets a lot of snow, 4wd IS necessary to get home at times.

I have a Grand Cherokee (Jeep model designation "ZJ"), just sold a CJ7, and use it for archery hunting, and wandering through the desert. I don't find the "U" is applicable to my Jeep as I can't/don't really haul anything large. It is an all wheel drive station wagon with more comfort, security, and safety that my CJ.

When a person starts a thread displaying obvious disgust on the subject matter, I wonder why you even dwell on the subject, much more than creating a forum about the object of your reality of animosity toward an individuals choice of personal transportation.

My Grand is fun, safe, and uses fossil fuel like there is no tommorrow (9-10 mpg). I offset that by driving a little six cylinder sedan, (BMW 323i) that gives great mileage and my wallet dictates my vehicle daily driving choice.

To each his/her own pleasures. I am fortunate to have served in the armed Forces (ARMY) of this great country that allows for discourse such as this, and, my oppurtunity to excell in my field and be able to afford what I want without legislation from myopic, do gooders that would protect myself,and family, from ourselves and our silly little educated decisions.

Have a great day, and I know you are saving energy by riding a stationary bike with a generator to provide the power for your Emachine.

I never claimed that my accident was not my fault. I will say that I do drive well, and am an attentive driver. Mistakes happen.

Your animosity for the people around you astounds me. I hope that your feelings aren't shared by the people around you should something unfortunate ever happen to you.

I'm sorry if I misinterpretted your post. Also, before this get's any closer to being a full out flame war, I'm going to leave this thread. I know I met a lot of disagreement, but hopefully I've at least gotten some people to think about it a bit.

The thing I hate is many people just have no respect for people who are from the other viewpoint.

Many people are right in this thread saying that many people who do use SUV's do not need them. Packing stuff into an SUV is a lot easier, but a respectable amount of things (short of furnature) is easily stored in a normal sized car with fold-down rear seats.

Many people are right in this thread saying that SUV's are better in winter weather. 4WD doesn't slow you down any faster (unless it's a stick and you know how to properly using engine braking), but many times it's the GROUND CLEARANCE people need. I'm from bumblefuck Wisconsin, I'm used to winter weather on little used roads. I can get through them oftentimes with my little piece of shit Saturn, but I have to WORK. HARD. It's not fun, it's not easy, and it SUCKS. Meanwhile, if I have a nice big 4WD SUV (which I luckily have access to most often in this type of weather), I'm able to drive through nice and easily. So what? What's the big deal? I'm used to the weather, I can adjust for shitty driving conditions, but some people just can't. Some drivers just suck, and in order to get from place to place in this area in the winter, they NEED a vehicle with ground clearance and most likely 4WD.

Many people never understand the intended purpose of SUV's and trucks until they see an unplowed highway the day after Christmas and a car that has snow well deeper than it's bumper. Now imagine having to drive to work, town, or some other place. Immediately.

SUV's have a purpose. You might not see them, but some people do.

I live and have lived in Canada most of my life so I think I know what I'm talking about. I agree that chains aren't handy, but they sure as heck are easy to use. You can have a set of cable chains on in no time, all you need to do is practice a bit. I've been using cable and heavy chains for over 25 years without too much of a problem.

Just so you know, I own a big-ass 4WD pickup now and several others over the years and I too leave my drop hitch on to fuck up any would be rearenders. My only comment was that people don't need them as much as they think they need them and that city slickers look silly driving around in them.

My mom is considering trading in her Ford Focus a Hyundai Tucson. She doesn't really need a SUV, but then again, few people do. The most ground clearance she'll need is to go over speedbumps. I'll probably go softroading with it more than her. Personally, I'm neutral towards the concept of SUVs. They have their uses, and if you're prepared to pay for the fuel and the high maintenance and insurance, then go for it.

What I don't like is totally unnecesary oversized V8 (and higher) powered SUV's and Trucks. And the fact that the higher most drivers sit, the shittier they drive, and the less considerate they become.

I know it's a summation of all the prior points, but I might as well add my $0.02.
I drive a small car, namely a 2500 pound 1994 Saturn SL2. While everyone in their SUV's trumpets their safety and usefulness, all I see is this:
-More chance of me dying in an accident with one
-More chance of damage to my car if I get into an accident with one
-Me not being able to see around SUV I'm next to, leading me to possibly get hit when I try to pull out into intersection etc.
-Me not being able to see above and past SUV I'm behind at intersection, leading me to drive through intersection on late yellow or red due to me not being able to see light
-Me getting hit when person in SUV forgets that AWD only gives better acceleration, not braking and handling

Also, the whole "why don't I move up in size" argument is horrible. SUV's lose in almost every aspect of driving. Need space? Get a wagon, great alternatives. The few legitimate reasons I see for having a SUV are towing capability (which I rarely RARELY see put to good use) and offroad driving, which I see used fewer than towing.

Reasons 3 and 4 are purely all YOUR fault not the fault of the SUV. Here is what I really don't get about the people with this fear of SUVs...if you are so damned scared of them...get the hell away from them in traffic. It's really not that hard and before anybody tells me yes it is hard I'll invite you to come ride with my in rush hour traffic in Dallas where every other vehicle on the road is a large truck or SUV and I mean that in the most literal sense possible. You see a giant H2 barrelling down on you...get the hell out of the way. You can't see around the SUV...back off of it like you SHOULD do if you get near a tractor trailor.
I dunno maybe it's because I grew up driving around giant trucks that the SUV thing doesn't bother me when I'm in a smaller car when I'm on the road I'm more concerned about the little turd in the compact car that thinks it's an F1 racer weaving in and out of traffic than I am of the slow lumbering SUV of which I can easily spot coming or easily avoid if I need to.
Just use the same rules you apply to the 18 wheelers and you should be ok. If one is coming up on you at a high rate of speed...get out of the way.
If one is in front or to the side of you assume they do not see you and watch for them to move into your lane and if at all possible(which it usually is) back well off from them.
If you are pulling out from an intersection that has a large SUV blocking the lane slowly....edge out until you can see around them or simply just WAIT until they move and your path isn't obstructed.

No, I don't agree. I love my SUV. I wish I had the money for an "extra" car to drive around town in, but I don't, so I drive my SUV all the time. Such is life, and no, I'm not giving up my big vehicle that is awesome on trips just because I can't afford a small car for around town.

Yea true there are a lot of soccer moms that drive SUV's unnecessarily, and that's what everyone against SUV's here seems to be trying to get to. On the other hand there are just as many people that actually do gain advantages from driving an SUV, and that in not necessarily for the SUV opponents to decide. Fortunately or unfortunately in thier case the country we live in is based on the principles of free choice, and while people may not always make the best choices youre going to have to live with them. If I wanted to waste the time and money getting certified for air brakes I could drive a damn semi to work every day if I wanted, so it's not like there's nothing worse out there.

Its harmful to the environment (energy wasted) for anyone to get a house larger than they absolutely need, yet nobody criticizes a family for moving into a house with a little more room if they have the money. Face it, we're a country of luxuries, life is not dictated by the bare minimum you can get away with.

I dont "hate" SUVs, I think they are, for the most part, un-necessary. I've gone through plenty of crappy Missouri winters without AWD, ice and snow that doesn't get cleared off due to city ineptitude. I totally understand why people would like SUVs, even if they dont take them off road, but I'd rather have a Volvo wagon, or even better a Magnum.

Reasons I own a 4x4 V8 Gas guzzling pick up:

-4X4=ground clearance=good for camping and fishing.

-V8= more torque to pull my 3500 pound boat through the Rocky Mountains.

-pickup bed= more room so I can develop my basement, haul my ball stuff , hual camping crap etc etc (ohh and it's a hell of a lot easier to throw all my shit in the back of the pick up than anything else I've ever owned).

All around good vehicle for the crappy weather we get here in Calgary. You own chains? Good for you, get out and put them on in -45 degree weather. Hey, I can afford it so why can't I drive it?

What about all the contractors/farmers that have to own a big V8 etc etc to do work? Should they be taxed just like the soccer moms out there that use it?

P.S. It's not me that I'm worried about in my vehicle, I haven't been in an accident for over ten years. It's the moron in the other vehicles out there. I think we all call this defensive driving..........

Perfect example yesterday, I was on a 4 lane local road at an intersection with another major 4 lane road. I was trying to take a right on red onto said road, but an Avalanche in the lane next to me had pulled into the intersection far past the crosswalk, not allowing me to see any traffix coming whatsoever to the point where my car had to be literally IN the intersection for me to see past. Eventually I got into the intersection but the presence of the truck made it an absolute pain in the ass, solely due to the fact that the avalanche driver wanted a better view. If they were in a car there would have been no problem as I could have seen through their windows/over their hood. I live in the suburbs. No one sans maybe 5% of the population truly needs a truck.

OK, Crazy, since you know the overall population, my two cents:

I have always driven a Chevy Blazer (MI and IN winters can be a bitch). I have three children from my first marriage (all under the age of 14). My ex-wife refuses to drive them to meet me so I do all of the driving. It is a 2.5 hour drive each way, so first off, spacing the kids apart in the car is a blessing.

Also, the majority of the drive are backroads that get plowed last, so the traction and security of having the SUV is also a blessing.

I recently traded the Blazer in for an Expedition. I personally didn't want to get the bigger vehicle, but seeing as how my new wife is pregnant, I just ran out of room in the Blazer, unless I wanted to strap someone to the roof.

Also, don't even go down the path of minivan, nope, no way, no how.

Also, try having 5 people in a vehicle and make the rounds at Christmas when you are making a 3 state trek.

SUV owner and proud of it

I would love an SUV(any Jeep) Right now I have a 2001 corolla. I live in Cedar City, Ut. Right now we have snow on the ground and will likely have over a foot at some point this winter. I haven't had problems driving my car in the snow, just slow down and think a little bit more and it goes fine. So the argument for having an SUV for driving in snow, to me is ridiculous. If you can't handle snowy streets without an SUV its time for you to move to Arizona, where it's not an issue!

I want one because I am a rock climber, I simply can't get to where I want to climb in my car, and I'm tired of hiking for an hour to climb for an hour. In the summer I spend roughly 7-10 hours a week hiking, another 10-15 climbing. In the winter its snowshoeing, snowboarding and some climbing still.

Amen to all that...especially having the kids separated!!! :eek: :lol:

Those of you who do own SUVs, how many downright hostile drivers do you encounter? I mean, beligerant asswipes who go waaaay under the speed limit in their little rice grinders just to piss you off? I see that more than anything. Very blatant hostility toward SUV drivers.

SUV's are not safer than cars. Ever. Period. If you want safety, you want a car. SUV's have greater rollover risk.

I know that your truck took the brunt of the impact, but then I got T-boned by an explorer while driving an old civic hatchback, it caved in the side of my car, and I walked away with nothing more than a bump on the head where I hit it on the door and a cut on my shoulder where the seatbelt dug into me as it was holding me in.

In other words, any decent vehicle will protect you in a crash like that.

There are some studies that suggest the higher rigidity of a truck frame results in greater transferral of impact to the driver than what you see in a more crushable car frame, btw.



As to the overall argument, I think SUV's have their place. I use one myself as a news vehicle and I'd hate to use anything different - it's got the room I need for my masses of camera gear and it's got the 4x4 offroad capability to get that gear where I need it.

On the other hand, I also think SUV's are the latest penis extenders for our society. People who don't need them are getting them so they can feel like they're macho out on the highways, then they drive like jackasses because they feel that "bigger has the right of way" applies to land vehicles, and not just boats.

I see that most of the suv supporters on this describe themselves as rural boat-haulers that live in that arctic. How about some posts from the little bitchy Austin and Atlanta and Washington DC girls and boys that get one because their rich daddy got them one to take to American University or UT? Most of the suv supporters have given fairly legitimate reasons to do with work, larger families(ever hear of condoms?) big toys like quadwheelers or boats. that is all fine and dandy. However, I would bet that the majority of SUV owners do not fall into that category. If I had a ranch or farm, then I would get an suv. As far as the snow, When I was skiing in Canada last year, most of the cars were fwd econoboxes but they all had snow tires.
Also, someone mentioned that their suv gets 18-20 mpg, while their family's ,minivan got 20-22. That is a 10% difference, which really is pretty large. Imagine if America had a 10% difference in all fuel consumption.

They do have their places, like my mom, she uses it to haul bags of milk replacer (has to be transported in a dry dry enviroment from one customers house to another) plus we use it to two the boat and for going into the words for hunting. If she didn't have a need for one she would be driving a car. The thing that pisses me off about them is everyone driving them cause they feel they are safer or better in the winter, hell 80% of the vehicles I see in the ditch during winter in Wisconsin are SUV's, guess what 4wd doesn't make you stop any better. Also it pisses me off at the i'm bigger and tougher than you idea (alot of people drive crazy cause they think the are king of the road). And for and example accident wise a lady in a Tahoe hit my roomate with his Mazda 626. The Mazda absorbed alot of the impact which totalled it. But the Tahoe shot across 3 lanes of traffic, proof it's better to absorb energy than deflect it like a raquet ball.

Again, you have a valid reason. The people who are posting to support suvs here on this formum have generally put a little thought into it. I think the majority of people in the US have not. I won't tell them that they cannot have one, but I think many should be better-educated before making that choice.

SUVs are OK with me.

I don't use the term "feelings" when I'm talking about things.

I don't have problems with SUV's as a whole. I drive a Isuzu Axiom. It's a mid-size suv I guess. Mileage could be better but it could be way worse. I like driving sitting up high and being able to see over the car in front of me. My only complaint is that I can't manuver at high speeds like I'd like to (rollover of course). For that I have my C280 Benz :)

I do have a somewhat of a problem with people buying an over size SUV just because they can. It's rare that someone with a Excursion makes fulll use of it. I can recall only once or twice that I've seen one full. Seems like around here (East L.A.) they're just for the bling factor.
I have a co-worker that has a H2 and a Honda Accord. She says she hates driving the Accord cause it's "too small". And she doesn't complain about the fuel costs cause she doesn't pay for it :rolleyes:

Amen to that brother!!

Ever hear of people actually wanting large families??

Guys who drive Hummers are compensating. :lol:

(Yes, I'm sure there are a few people who actually need them. But for most people it's just psychological.)

As as been pointed out by others, this isn't a very convincing argument to an SUV fan.

On the other hand, if it makes you feel any better, SUV owners are actually more likely to die in single vehicle accidents than those who drive cars.

When you look at the statistics for all types of accidents combined, SUVs and cars offer fairly equivalent protection -- it's just that each is superior in different types of accidents.

However, SUVs waste gas and therefore contribute needlessly to global warming, and to our oil consumption that helps put our national security at risk, and that's a shame. Yes, some people need them, but most don't.

The only thing that will pry people out of SUVs is the price of gasoline, which is why I'd like to see gas taxes raised. Even George Bush's chief economist once called the benefits from higher gas taxes "the closest thing to an economic free lunch." Of course, there's no chance of that happening, especially with this administration, which believes that every problem can always be solved by cutting taxes.

to those of you who like to leave drop hitchs on your trucks as a present to would be rearenders, you may want to think it through a bit more. sure you punch a nice hole in their radiator and what not... but the force of their impact goes through your drop hitch, into your trailer hitch, which is bolted directly to your frame. they hit hard enough and your frame is going bend. now you need a new frame, as it is not always possible to straigten them.

let your bumper do its job... and their crumple zone it's job.

Fair point, but it'll have to be quite a hit in order to do the damage you're talking about (at least on my truck) and the car would hit the hidden hitch even if the drop weren’t there. The reason I leave my drop hitch on is more for people hitting it while parking than a high speed hit and to act a "feeler" while backing up against concrete walls.
It's also good for a laugh when friends whack their shins on it :D

But not so funny when I hit mine.
:rolleyes:

Hybrid cars generate their own electricity to charge the batteries while breaking and running on gas, you don't plug them in. They are step in the right direction. In a couple of years we will problably start seeing the hybrid motors in Trucks too.

gm already offers the silverado in a hybrid form, with all the power of the normal 5.3 v8. on top of it they are being used ina city buses as well. in 2007 the tahoe/yukon and suburban/yukon xl will be offered in hybrid form. in 2005 the envoy will be offered in DoD trim with the v8.

I Feel if people want to own what they want let them.The hybirds are coming and soon all the people will trade in their SUV in for an hybird SUV,Because of gas prices.About the crash thing doesn't make sense to me.Anyone can kill anyone out there,size doesn't matter.It's about the speed.Plus something I see alot that ticks me off about people driving talking on a cell phone,reading a book,putting make up on,eating, anyways, these are the people that get people killed/hurt.


You can probably make another thread about sport cars too.

I don't mind SUVs in general. But the Porche one is the ugliest thing i've ever seen.

We have freedom of choice in our purchases, nobody's going to hassle me in the supermarket for buying a 3 litre jug of milk instead of the 1 litre carton, nobody's going to cry murder when I decide to go for a stereo with 2-foot high speakers instead of a little compact mini-stereo.

However...

What if I choose to drive a bus to the supermarket, or what if I want to drive a semi-trailer when I take my kids to school in the morning? I need a special licence for these things, I need to apply and justify my need for a bus or a semi-trailer in my driveway.

And I feel the same way about SUVs. You people who live on farms and in the snow, you're fine, you've got reason to do so. If you're truly a soccer-mum or a modern/liberated 'power woman' driving an SUV to the office then no way, no SUV licence for you. Nobody cries about a lack of freedom of choice when they're denied a semi-trailer licence, do they?

My concern with SUVs isn't about fuel use or emissions, it's about size and safety of everyone around. I can't see around an SUV, I can't see them make eye contact with me so I know they've seen me so they won't pull out in front of me, I am terrified they won't stop in time, and worst of all they can't see my car (once a Mistubishi Magna wagon) and reverse into it because their rear view mirrors just look right over the top of the car. You can say it's not the car's fault, and that's the result of bad driving, and I totally agree with it. That's exactly why I think there should be a special licence to drive an SUV, a licence that acknowledges that you have a need for it (just like a semi-trailer or a moving van), AND that you know how to drive it. If you've got an SUV licence then that's fine, I see you've justified to the road authorities that you need it and I'll keep my mouth shut. Mack truck drivers need special licences, manual transmission drivers need special licences (where I live), and motorcyclists need special licences, so I don't see anything far-fetched about requiring an SUV licence. Obviously this would be phased in over a period of time so people now who needlessly drive SUVs are ok, since they shouldn't be punished for breaking a law that doesn't yet exist, or didn't exist when they bought the car.

If a smaller car is at fault with an accident with an SUV then it's still that person's fault. Accidents happen no matter how hard we try to prevent them, but still there's fault involved. But still, there is courtesy and compassion. I wouldn't rig my car body up to electrify any car that hits me, or add spikes to my car just so that anyone who hits me gets all the damage. That's a terrible idea, and I think so is the mindset that 'If it's someone else's fault then I don't care what happens to them.'

Edit: I just wanted to add that I think the worst is yet to come with SUVs. At the moment, for the past ten years or so since SUVs have really taken off and gone from a tiny share to a huge share of the market, most drivers of SUVs are older and more experienced. There are a lot of college kids driving them but I think the majority are older.

And as these cars get older, they're more likely to become the hand-me-downs, or the ones that the parents give their kids as a first car when they graduate. Unskilled, young drivers in a little ricer car is one thing, but having unskilled, young drivers (I'm no exception here) driving these tanks in the next ten years or so is where I think we'll really see the dangers of SUVs on the roads. More SUVs now mean more SUVs in the future, driven by younger kids as hand-me-downs and the inexperience combined with the weight and size of these things will mean lotsa danger. If you think there won't be younger kids in the near future driving the current-model SUVs then just look at the cars they (non-trust fund kids) drive today - they're the previous decades' standard.

F=ma

SUVs tend to have a lot of mass.

Their good for offroading. Esp. in the backlots of missoura

Not to threadjack.

My brither-in-law said it best, "Better 2 in braces than 5 that need them."

I stopped at 2, they both needed braces.

Yep, same here, but I don't begrudge anyone who wants lots of chitlins. :)

I have a question for all thos people who say they like SUVs cause they can "see" better; over all the other cars etc. What happens when everyone has SUVs? You're back at square one, and we have less space to drive, park. It IS like "an arms race". We'll all just keep on getting bigger cars..What's next? H3? H4? How about Bradley Fighting Vehicle, civilian model, Fallouja Edtion? How cool would that be?

The "reduce to ridiculous" method is just that, ridiculous.

How about trying a question more grounded in reality? Ah, because that wouldn't suit your purpose would it?

If you have a valid point to make, then make it. What is the purpose of this dribble?

/and yes, I like my SUV very much.

//amazed at how the people that scream about personal freedom only want personal freedoms that match their own bias.

//this is almost as silly as the tank comment made earlier in this thread

If they hit me hard enough to bend sheetmetal I want a new car anyway, not some halfass repair with new patch panels and body work. Soooo moot point, cause their insurance is paying since they're at fault. I cant really think of any vehicle that would be worth replacing the frame on without totalling out the vehicle.

Whew! I had to read through 3 pages of this mess to make sure I hadn't already posted in this thread. It's not like the "I hate SUV" thread is new, you know? Given that it pops up every few months or so, I can't remember which one I'd commented in.

But, I'd just like to drop a quick one in defense of my wife and my SUV. 2004 Honda CR-V. It's an LEV. Emsissions? What emissions? There are many, many, many, many, many, V-6 sedans and minivans putting out more crap per gallon burned than our CRV does. It's about burning fuel well, and the 4 banger in the CR-V does it better than most.

Size? The "serv" as I call it (to bug my wife) is hardly bigger than my Lancer. Certainly it's taller, but if you have a problem with that, I can't help you. Oddly enough, I drive my Lancer 5 days out of the week, and I seem to cope with it's ride height just fine.

Mass? The CRV checks in at 3200lbs. That's a mere 600 more than my Lancer (which ain't a big ride, you know?) The average family sedan is heavier than our CRV. Minivans, which seem to avoid the SUV stigma, because the average American is an idiot, mass much bigger numbers than our puny 3200lb CRV.

MPG? It seems to manage 24mpg, repeatedly, per tank.

4wd? It was freakin great to have during the drive to up to MI this past Thanksgiving weekend in the freezing rain and snow. Yes, I drove slowly and remembered 4wd doesn't help you stop. Duh.

Sorry, I can't help you hate our truck. Maybe you'll try harder next time.

A crv is not a real suv, it is a tall wagon. It also cannot do anything better than my wrx wagon. (except get in the way).
Lets classify an suv as anything ford exploder or bigger that rides on a truck frame. Therefore, mercedes minivans, bmw xminivans, volvo xc90s, ford escapes, nissan murano tall wagons, etc... are not really suvs. Also, the chrylser pacifica. These are the ones with unibody construction, lower center of gravity, car engines, passenger tires, etc... also known as minivans or station wagons for people who don't suffer from low self-esteem issues.
BTW, did you know the Dodge Magnum is classified as an suv? It has a flat hatch floor and that way chrysler gets a break on cafe standards.

Mass of a SUV doesn't kill you,It's the speed.If someone hits you in the rear when their flying it's going hurt no matter if it's an car or SUV/truck.If someone Tbones you still going be messed up pretty bad,because there isn't too much room to absorb the hit like the front and back of the car.Now i'll give you about they block the views of cars.But so do vans/work trucks ,etc etc.

Wow. Just... wow.

If you are going to single out SUVs because they waste gas, also have a look at other gas wasters like recreational vehicles (snowmobiles, motocross bikes, quads, fishing boats, etc, etc., etc...) and Motorsport, which use up insane amounts of petroleum products for no reason other than Entertainment purposes. The world's biggest oil corporations pour billions of $$$ and tons of petroleum into every conceivable type of motorsport, from boat racing to motorcycle racing to auto racing.

50% of all new vehicles sold in the U.S. are suvs and the U.S. has 1/3 of all vehicles in the world. I submit to you that racing consumes a fraction of the resources that even a city like Atlanta uses. Honestly, how many full-time racers do you know? Same thing goes for the recreational gadgets like motorcycles, snowmobiles, etc... How many are there?

then what about jeep's? the cherokke and grand cherokee are both unibodies.

I'm not arguing that the figures are comparable to SUV's (they might be, I don't know one way or the other), I'm saying that SUV's aren't the only significant drain on petroleum sources. Also, in motorsport, tires (made from oil) are used once and thrown away. It can't be making the environmentalists too happy.

All Motorsports worldwide don't contribute too much to the total. Tires can be recycled. I don't hate SUV's themselves but find the reasons for owning them to be weak. Many people drive things they don't rightfully deserve or need, it only concerns me when it's beyond their capability. I feel like a carrying a small hammer to break the mirrors when i see the ignoramus drivers not using them.

when driving is beyond their capability?

not using what?

I guess you also break off the WINDOWS buttons from people's keyboards because the ignorant people still use their mouse to click on start instead of the button.

This I will never understand about women (no offense to your wife or any SUV driving women). Although a Volvo is much more manuverable and has a roll cage (even though the Blazer does great in a wreck, I'm sure), they would rather have a big ass SUV so when they get in a wreck, the Miata or Focus or Metro that they rear end while talking on their cell phone will be more or less stuck to the bottom of the SUV.

That being said, I don't see what's so great about an SUV. They are more dangerous, cost just as much, use more gas, are harder to drive, and are slower than most mid-priced sports cars. Plus, you can haul more in a pick-up truck. They're usually driven by people who don't use their mirrors to begin with, which means they'll be even more dangerous because they are more vital in a bigger automobile. The fact that they are now being sold with rear-facing cameras just reinforces that. On top of it all, they increase the demand for refined crude oil, which drives up gas prices for us all.

Did you not pass 5th grade science??? It's called inertia.