Thinking about biodiesel - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

merkerguitars · 05-08-2004, 04:21 PM

Well i'm thinking about starting to make my own biodiesel. Anybody have any thoughts on the matter?

TopRamen66 · 05-08-2004, 11:13 PM

yeah.... just one

What is a Biodiesel?

WarWagon · 05-09-2004, 12:01 AM

Diesel fuel usually made from something like corn.

iamnormal · 05-09-2004, 12:14 AM

Biodiesel is fuel in the from of processed plant or animal fat.
The process in makeing it is the same as the old way of makeing soap.

http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/biodiesel_basics/

KellyC · 05-09-2004, 01:03 AM

whats the byproduct of the new biodiesel? i read this thing last year or so, and i heard it produced some wax like stuff as waste. anyway, kinna sad to hear this. other poor country, like those in Africa don't even have food to eat and we use those stuff to make fuel.

iamnormal · 05-09-2004, 02:29 AM

Quote:

How is biodiesel made?
Biodiesel is made through a chemical process called transesterification whereby the glycerin is separated from the fat or vegetable oil. The process leaves behind two products -- methyl esters (the chemical name for biodiesel) and glycerin (a valuable byproduct usually sold to be used in soaps and other products).

merkerguitars · 05-09-2004, 11:39 AM

Well pretty much you take a type of vegetable oil (soybean, canola etc) and then mix some chemicals to separate the oil into to parts Glycerin (used in soap) and biodiesel then you filter the mix.....i'm going to round up some oil this week and make a 40 gallon batch of it...if I can get my dad's 1994 Dodge cummins turbo diesel to make it, we are going into fuel scale production and i'm buying a newer diesel jetta. You can make it from waste oil (from a restaurant) but you have to clean it and use a little more heat...

Here's what they say on the biodiesel now website
What are the benefits?
1) National security. Since it's made domestically, it reduces our dependence on foreign oil. That's good.

2) National economy. Using biodiesel keeps our fuel buying dollars at home instead of sending it to foreign countries. This reduces our trade deficit and creates jobs.

3) It's sustainable & non-toxic. Face it, we're going to run out of oil eventually. Biodiesel is 100% renewable... we'll never run out of it. And if it gets into your water supply, there's no problem - it's veggie oil! Heck, you can drink it if you so desire, but it tastes nasty (trust us).
(Learn more)

4) Emissions. Biodiesel is nearly carbon-neutral, meaning it contributes almost zero emissions to global warming! Biodiesel also dramatically reduces other emissions fairly dramatically. We like clean air, how about you? Plus, the exhaust smells like popcorn or french fries!
(Learn more)

5) Engine life. Studies have shown it reduces engine wear by as much as one half, primarily because it provides excellent lubricity. Even a 2% biodiesel/98% diesel blend will help.
(Learn more)

6) Drivability. We have yet to meet anyone who doesn't notice an immediate smoothing of the engine with biodiesel. It just runs quieter, and produces less smoke.

Are there any negatives?
Of course. There is no perfect fuel.
1) Primarily that it's not readily available in much of the nation, YET (click here for a map of locations). Consumption jumped from 500,000 gallons in 2000 to 15 million gallons in 2001, so hopefully availability will change soon. 2) Biodiesel will clean your injectors and fuel lines. If you have an old diesel vehicle, there's a chance that your first tank or two of BD could free up all the accumulated crud and clog your fuel filter. 3) It has a higher gel point. B100 (100% biodiesel) gets slushy a little under 32°F. But B20 (20% biodiesel, 80% regular diesel - more commonly available than B100) has a gel point of -15°F. Like regular diesel, the gel point can be lowered further with additives such as kerosene (blended into winter diesel in cold-weather areas). 4) Old vehicles (older than mid-90s) might require upgrades of fuel lines (a cheap, easy upgrade), as BD can eat through certain types of rubber. Almost all new vehicles should have no problem with BD. 5) Finally, the one emission that goes up with biodiesel is NOx. NOx contributes to smog. We feel that a slight increase (up to 15%) in NOx is greatly offset by the reduction in all other emissions and the major reduction in greenhouse gasses.

merkerguitars · 09-02-2004, 09:49 AM

Well I'm thinking about making biodiesel. Here's some information on it..and just is pretty much all my thoughts and all my notes tossed together on the subject.

Biodiesel is an organic fuel made out of Animal Fats, Vegetable Oil, Grease etc. So far it's pretty much the only fuel I found that can be produced without actually costing more money to make. My grandpa down in Georgia produces Ethanol, the only thing I hate when people talk about ethanol is the think its such a wonderful fuel because it is made out of corn.....the problem with ethanol is the energy that it takes to make it....it's distilling which requires alot of heat and energy to make...which makes it not worth the effort. Plus most diesel vehicles requires very little retrofitting.

Well I started to research how to make it while in class one day...it looked very promising so I decided to talk to my dad and what he thought of it. I showed him how it is made, he's like we have a perfect source of animal fat....butter!!!

Well I started to research how to use butter...but I found one slight problem. Butter has alot of water content in it. So first it has to be converted to ghee (which is butter without the water content in it) once it is converted to ghee its makes a perfect raw material.

The way you make biodiesel is you take the raw material (ghee) mix some lye and methanol heat up the raw material, mix the lye methanol mixture (sodium hydroxide) in the mix, stir for an hour and let it sit for a day...and then you get biodiesel, and glycerin (soap).... I'm hoping within the few weeks to have my first batch of biodiesel made. Once I start making biodiesel I figure I can make the fuel for around 20-30 cents a gallon. Currently my parents spend about $600 a week in fuel cost for their semi truck. If I use biodiesel it will save them up to $500 a week in fuel cost which is a little over $26k a year. now I will share with you some of my notes on how much I would save personally if I bought a car and switched to use biodiesel. I pretty much have my car picked out I would get a mid 90's or newer volkwagen diesel, since from what I have heard from people that they run flawlessy on biodiesel. Here's a note for you, biodiesel will not void any engine manufacturers warranty. But the killer thing is unless I get a car thats about $5,000 I won't really save any money unless I quadruple my driving. The problem with finding a volkswagen TDI car is they are super hard to find...and once you find one they are usually have a turn around sales time of a day. The car gets a 45mpg hwy and 40mpg city...not bad eh? Plus my friend is a vw mechanic so he can get parts for cheap . If this biodiesel thing works out as smooth as I think it will I might just bite the bullet and buy a brand new car with all the options I want (then if i breaks I have a warranty) it's $22,000 for the car, but eventually when I rack up enough miles, I will save money and also I will be having better emissions and not using foreign oil Also another fact of biodiesel, it makes the engine run smoother and doubles the engine life...and since vw cars can easily get up to 300k of miles....I could potentionaly have a car that lasts me the next 15 years...

Rodney · 09-02-2004, 10:16 AM

I talked to a guy who made his own biodiesel; actually, he had a biodiesel co-op going for a while made up of surfers and students and other people who wanted to save money on gas. They would collect "white" grease (not sure what that means) from restaurant's grease traps (they'd get it free, for hauling the grease away on a regular basis), then get together and brew up a batch in somebody's garage. He told me that it was important to _wear protective clothing,_ even if it's just work gloves and old oilcloth raingear. Well, anytime you're dealing with lye and stuff like that, it's a good idea.

The coop thing fell apart because both students and surfers tend to move on at regular intervals, but he's now distributing biodiesel in town, biodiesel that's commercially made. The current problem with mass-producing biodiesel from used animal fat is that the refiners have to compete with the rendering industry (used fat goes into soap and other products). Things can always change, of course.

iamnormal · 09-02-2004, 12:40 PM

I would think a better way to use the biodiesel is in a generator. Take cost off the electric bill or if you can make more power than used sell it to the power company.

exizldelfuego · 09-02-2004, 05:09 PM

My brother is on a high school biodiesel "team" of sorts, where they're trying to take left over greases and such from local restaurants and turn it into Biodiesel. It's pretty neat. I think they're getting close to getting their methodology just right to produce good batches from these waste products. The thing that's always got me, though, is that they get no school funding, which sucks because, if it actually works, the school can power all sorts of their equipment with the stuff. Pretty slick though.

madsenj37 · 09-09-2004, 09:56 AM

From a mechanics staindpont, I have been told biodiesel leaves an awful mess inside the interior runnings of the car, i.e., its a bitch to clean out when the needs maintenance.

merkerguitars · 09-09-2004, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madsenj37

From a mechanics staindpont, I have been told biodiesel leaves an awful mess inside the interior runnings of the car, i.e., its a bitch to clean out when the needs maintenance.

Actually when you use straight vegetable oil it's a big fucking mess....but if you use biodiesel it is a solvent and actually cleans the fuel system.

Marlin · 09-14-2004, 07:42 PM

Looking at the ratio of energy required to make gasoline to energy output of gasoline compared to that of biodiesel,it is something like 1:100 for gas, 1:3 for biodiesel.<BR><BR>But if you like the smell fo french fries, it's all worth it.

05-08-2004, 04:21 PM	#1 (permalink)
merkerguitars Buffering......... Location: Wisconsin...	Thinking about biodiesel Well i'm thinking about starting to make my own biodiesel. Anybody have any thoughts on the matter? __________________ Donate now! Ask me How! Please use the search function it is your friend. Look at my mustang please feel free to comment! http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=26985

05-09-2004, 12:14 AM	#4 (permalink)
iamnormal Addict Location: In the id	Biodiesel is fuel in the from of processed plant or animal fat. The process in makeing it is the same as the old way of makeing soap. http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/biodiesel_basics/ Last edited by iamnormal; 05-09-2004 at 12:22 AM..

05-09-2004, 01:03 AM	#5 (permalink)
KellyC Comment or else!! Location: Home sweet home	whats the byproduct of the new biodiesel? i read this thing last year or so, and i heard it produced some wax like stuff as waste. anyway, kinna sad to hear this. other poor country, like those in Africa don't even have food to eat and we use those stuff to make fuel. __________________ Him: Ok, I have to ask, what do you believe? Me: Shit happens.

05-09-2004, 11:39 AM	#7 (permalink)
merkerguitars Buffering......... Location: Wisconsin...	Well pretty much you take a type of vegetable oil (soybean, canola etc) and then mix some chemicals to separate the oil into to parts Glycerin (used in soap) and biodiesel then you filter the mix.....i'm going to round up some oil this week and make a 40 gallon batch of it...if I can get my dad's 1994 Dodge cummins turbo diesel to make it, we are going into fuel scale production and i'm buying a newer diesel jetta. You can make it from waste oil (from a restaurant) but you have to clean it and use a little more heat... Here's what they say on the biodiesel now website What are the benefits? 1) National security. Since it's made domestically, it reduces our dependence on foreign oil. That's good. 2) National economy. Using biodiesel keeps our fuel buying dollars at home instead of sending it to foreign countries. This reduces our trade deficit and creates jobs. 3) It's sustainable & non-toxic. Face it, we're going to run out of oil eventually. Biodiesel is 100% renewable... we'll never run out of it. And if it gets into your water supply, there's no problem - it's veggie oil! Heck, you can drink it if you so desire, but it tastes nasty (trust us). (Learn more) 4) Emissions. Biodiesel is nearly carbon-neutral, meaning it contributes almost zero emissions to global warming! Biodiesel also dramatically reduces other emissions fairly dramatically. We like clean air, how about you? Plus, the exhaust smells like popcorn or french fries! (Learn more) 5) Engine life. Studies have shown it reduces engine wear by as much as one half, primarily because it provides excellent lubricity. Even a 2% biodiesel/98% diesel blend will help. (Learn more) 6) Drivability. We have yet to meet anyone who doesn't notice an immediate smoothing of the engine with biodiesel. It just runs quieter, and produces less smoke. Are there any negatives? Of course. There is no perfect fuel. 1) Primarily that it's not readily available in much of the nation, YET (click here for a map of locations). Consumption jumped from 500,000 gallons in 2000 to 15 million gallons in 2001, so hopefully availability will change soon. 2) Biodiesel will clean your injectors and fuel lines. If you have an old diesel vehicle, there's a chance that your first tank or two of BD could free up all the accumulated crud and clog your fuel filter. 3) It has a higher gel point. B100 (100% biodiesel) gets slushy a little under 32°F. But B20 (20% biodiesel, 80% regular diesel - more commonly available than B100) has a gel point of -15°F. Like regular diesel, the gel point can be lowered further with additives such as kerosene (blended into winter diesel in cold-weather areas). 4) Old vehicles (older than mid-90s) might require upgrades of fuel lines (a cheap, easy upgrade), as BD can eat through certain types of rubber. Almost all new vehicles should have no problem with BD. 5) Finally, the one emission that goes up with biodiesel is NOx. NOx contributes to smog. We feel that a slight increase (up to 15%) in NOx is greatly offset by the reduction in all other emissions and the major reduction in greenhouse gasses. __________________ Donate now! Ask me How! Please use the search function it is your friend. Look at my mustang please feel free to comment! http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=26985 Last edited by merkerguitars; 05-09-2004 at 03:35 PM..

09-02-2004, 09:49 AM	#8 (permalink)
merkerguitars Buffering......... Location: Wisconsin...	Well I'm thinking about making biodiesel. Here's some information on it..and just is pretty much all my thoughts and all my notes tossed together on the subject. Biodiesel is an organic fuel made out of Animal Fats, Vegetable Oil, Grease etc. So far it's pretty much the only fuel I found that can be produced without actually costing more money to make. My grandpa down in Georgia produces Ethanol, the only thing I hate when people talk about ethanol is the think its such a wonderful fuel because it is made out of corn.....the problem with ethanol is the energy that it takes to make it....it's distilling which requires alot of heat and energy to make...which makes it not worth the effort. Plus most diesel vehicles requires very little retrofitting. Well I started to research how to make it while in class one day...it looked very promising so I decided to talk to my dad and what he thought of it. I showed him how it is made, he's like we have a perfect source of animal fat....butter!!! Well I started to research how to use butter...but I found one slight problem. Butter has alot of water content in it. So first it has to be converted to ghee (which is butter without the water content in it) once it is converted to ghee its makes a perfect raw material. The way you make biodiesel is you take the raw material (ghee) mix some lye and methanol heat up the raw material, mix the lye methanol mixture (sodium hydroxide) in the mix, stir for an hour and let it sit for a day...and then you get biodiesel, and glycerin (soap).... I'm hoping within the few weeks to have my first batch of biodiesel made. Once I start making biodiesel I figure I can make the fuel for around 20-30 cents a gallon. Currently my parents spend about $600 a week in fuel cost for their semi truck. If I use biodiesel it will save them up to $500 a week in fuel cost which is a little over $26k a year. now I will share with you some of my notes on how much I would save personally if I bought a car and switched to use biodiesel. I pretty much have my car picked out I would get a mid 90's or newer volkwagen diesel, since from what I have heard from people that they run flawlessy on biodiesel. Here's a note for you, biodiesel will not void any engine manufacturers warranty. But the killer thing is unless I get a car thats about $5,000 I won't really save any money unless I quadruple my driving. The problem with finding a volkswagen TDI car is they are super hard to find...and once you find one they are usually have a turn around sales time of a day. The car gets a 45mpg hwy and 40mpg city...not bad eh? Plus my friend is a vw mechanic so he can get parts for cheap . If this biodiesel thing works out as smooth as I think it will I might just bite the bullet and buy a brand new car with all the options I want (then if i breaks I have a warranty) it's $22,000 for the car, but eventually when I rack up enough miles, I will save money and also I will be having better emissions and not using foreign oil Also another fact of biodiesel, it makes the engine run smoother and doubles the engine life...and since vw cars can easily get up to 300k of miles....I could potentionaly have a car that lasts me the next 15 years... __________________ Donate now! Ask me How! Please use the search function it is your friend. Look at my mustang please feel free to comment! http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=26985

05-08-2004, 11:13 PM	#2 (permalink)
TopRamen66 Insane	yeah.... just one What is a Biodiesel?

05-09-2004, 12:01 AM	#3 (permalink)
WarWagon Loser	Diesel fuel usually made from something like corn.

09-02-2004, 10:16 AM	#9 (permalink)
Rodney Observant Ruminant Location: Rich Wannabe Hippie Town	I talked to a guy who made his own biodiesel; actually, he had a biodiesel co-op going for a while made up of surfers and students and other people who wanted to save money on gas. They would collect "white" grease (not sure what that means) from restaurant's grease traps (they'd get it free, for hauling the grease away on a regular basis), then get together and brew up a batch in somebody's garage. He told me that it was important to _wear protective clothing,_ even if it's just work gloves and old oilcloth raingear. Well, anytime you're dealing with lye and stuff like that, it's a good idea. The coop thing fell apart because both students and surfers tend to move on at regular intervals, but he's now distributing biodiesel in town, biodiesel that's commercially made. The current problem with mass-producing biodiesel from used animal fat is that the refiners have to compete with the rendering industry (used fat goes into soap and other products). Things can always change, of course. Last edited by Rodney; 09-02-2004 at 10:19 AM..

09-02-2004, 12:40 PM	#10 (permalink)
iamnormal Addict Location: In the id	I would think a better way to use the biodiesel is in a generator. Take cost off the electric bill or if you can make more power than used sell it to the power company.

09-02-2004, 05:09 PM	#11 (permalink)
exizldelfuego Crazy Location: Seattle, WA	My brother is on a high school biodiesel "team" of sorts, where they're trying to take left over greases and such from local restaurants and turn it into Biodiesel. It's pretty neat. I think they're getting close to getting their methodology just right to produce good batches from these waste products. The thing that's always got me, though, is that they get no school funding, which sucks because, if it actually works, the school can power all sorts of their equipment with the stuff. Pretty slick though.

09-09-2004, 09:56 AM	#12 (permalink)
madsenj37 Still searching... Location: NorCal For Life	From a mechanics staindpont, I have been told biodiesel leaves an awful mess inside the interior runnings of the car, i.e., its a bitch to clean out when the needs maintenance. __________________ "Only two things are certain: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not certain about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

09-14-2004, 07:42 PM	#14 (permalink)
Marlin Upright	Looking at the ratio of energy required to make gasoline to energy output of gasoline compared to that of biodiesel,it is something like 1:100 for gas, 1:3 for biodiesel.<BR><BR>But if you like the smell fo french fries, it's all worth it.