Tires and snow

[denim]

I bought a new car, as I mentioned in another thread. It snowed noticably over the last few days, so now I've got experience with this car and snow/ice.

I don't like what I'm seeing.

The car came with Michelin all-season tires. Par for the course as I understand it. No biggie, until I tried to get up the hill to my parking lot yesterday evening. At that point, I had a bit of a problem. Ditto this morning when I tried to get out of my parking space. Bleh.

I had water-shedding tires on my previous car. That car never had a problem on snow or in rain. So I just called up my dealer to talk about this, and what can I do. He's got to speak with his service department, but he told me of an offer he saw on their counter: "snow" tires and wheels, $700, which is a bit more than I'm ready to spend given that I've yet to make the first payment on my car.

I don't know what they mean by snow tires these days, especially for a front-wheel drive car, but I intend to find out. I'm wondering what people here might have to say about this. I know that the water-shedding tires did well for me for years, but I'm not sure if that's what they mean by "snow tires", or if they mean a more traditional snow tire. Anyone know?

Oh, by the way, Halx: snow is this white dandruff-like cold stuff that falls from the sky. They tell you not to eat the yellow version of it. And the heated mirrors worked VERY nicely this morning. Melted the frozen glaze right off.

[DEI37]

Snow tires can be invaluable. They are a dedicated winter type tire that you run only on snow and ice. Check out Bridgestone Blizzak WS50 or LM22. Both are incredible winter tires.

I love my snow, but I just put tires on my car, to replace GoodYear "racing slicks..." formerly known as GoodYear Eagle RS-A's with Kumho Ecsta HP4 716's, and so far, I'm not impressed with snow traction. On the other hand, my other car with Bridgestone Potenza RE-910's work pretty nice in the snow.

[Pragma]

I'm not sure exactly how useful this will be, but you could always go buy snow chains and slap those on your tires, rather than buying new tires for the snow. Not sure if that's what you're looking for, though.

[j8ear]

Yeah depending on your winter locally...unless you get a significant number of days with snow fall, snow tires will quickly be reduced to worthless, as they are extremely soft.

I just had some all-season Michelins thrown on my volvo wagon, which is rear wheel drive. I think they are awesome in the snow.

Here's a few tips. On snowy days, air down your tires a bit, maybe take out 10-12psi? This will result in a wider contact footprint between tire and road and provide for better traction. Do what you can to very slowly ease the car into motion. Do not spin the wheels. Let the automatic get her rolling without gas and very slowly ease the gas pedal into speeding up the car. Drive slowly and brake as infrequently as possible. Kind of like getting a running start at difficult stretches so you can minimize accelerating, which spins the tires and breaks traction.

Be slow and deliberate. Stay away from SUV pussies who think that 4x4 helps with steering and braking....it doesn't.

Be careful out there.

-bear

[shakran]

Originally posted by j8ear
On snowy days, air down your tires a bit, maybe take out 10-12psi? This will result in a wider contact footprint between tire and road and provide for better traction.

Without meaning to offend, this is completely untrue. The trick for winter is a NARROW contact patch. Wide tires float up on top of the snow. Narrow tires sink into the snow and can grip the road. Wide tires will send you in a ditch doublequick. If anything, in the winter, up the pressure slightly.

Also, with an automatic, start in drive-2 - that'll force it to stay in 2nd gear which will give you better starts.

[denim]

Yup, narrow tires are the way in snow. Lots of people don't understand that. Water-shedding tires kinda look like two narrow tires instead of one wide one. I think that's part of why they work in snow.

[j8ear]

Originally posted by shakran
Without meaning to offend, this is completely untrue. The trick for winter is a NARROW contact patch. Wide tires float up on top of the snow. Narrow tires sink into the snow and can grip the road. Wide tires will send you in a ditch doublequick. If anything, in the winter, up the pressure slightly.

Also, with an automatic, start in drive-2 - that'll force it to stay in 2nd gear which will give you better starts.

None taken

I have been driving in snow for 17 years, I am a Canadian bred driver, and have similar experience with off-road wheelin'.

Agree, that a narrower snow tire is ideal for a wintery/snowy climate operated vehicle.

Although a narrow 'snow tire' also has a much different and more aggresive tred pattern which is improved by said narrower tire.

All-season and/or non-snow tires ARE NOT 'narrower' and for occasional snow exposure narrow is not appropriate for the vehicle or the climate, as it presents other limitations on handling, ride, steering and suspension.

Airing down a snow tire is not a good idea, but doing so to a slip sliding away non snow tire is an extremely effective way to increase traction, and improve breaking distance.

Do not trust me on this please. Give it a try. I suspect you'll discover exactly what I'm taking about.

Just my training, experiences and observations.

-bear

[shakran]

Quite agree, but then I also feel that all season tires should be taken out back and shot in the dark of night All season just means they handle all seasons with a great degree of mediocrity.

If you're driving a non-snow tire on icy roads that don't have snow on them, then reducing their pressure may help. The minute you hit a snow drift, though, you may find yourself in trouble. I prefer to run snow tires on my winter car, and if the road is icy I just slow down. Admittedly, the slowing down part doesnt' seem to be practiced by very many minnesotans

[Pragma]

Originally posted by shakran
Admittedly, the slowing down part doesnt' seem to be practiced by very many minnesotans

Hah, you think that's bad, try looking at Maryland drivers. They're even worse, because they get very little practice in snow, then adopt the same mentality.

"Oh look, snow! I'm in my nice big SUV, time to zoom down the road at 15 above the speed limit, dodging between slow moving cars."

[denim]

Well, now I'm doing some tire shopping. Seems the dealership/factory won't help with this, having no recommendations other than the $700 deal I mentioned earlier. That's for some Bridgestone BLIZZAK 12/55 16 on after-market steel wheels with hubcaps. Yeah, I could probably buy additional alloy wheels, but that's more money.

Using Google, I found a site with tire reviews and such. Looks interesting. Figures that such a thing would exist!

The BLIZZAK tires appear to have good customer reviews, in agreement with DEI37. I'm a little hesitant to just buy the first thing that shows up, though. Is it normal these days for tires to come pre-mounted on wheels? Sounds like an expensive way to go, or does it really save money by not causing wear on the tire from being remounted multiple times on the same wheels?

[denim]

Originally posted by Pragma
Hah, you think that's bad, try looking at Maryland drivers.

You should see Rhode Island "drivers". They're bad in all seasons. Don't start going through an intersection in RI just after the light turns green! You'll get nailed by a RI driver.

[shakran]

Originally posted by Pragma
Hah, you think that's bad, try looking at Maryland drivers. They're even worse, because they get very little practice in snow, then adopt the same mentality.

"Oh look, snow! I'm in my nice big SUV, time to zoom down the road at 15 above the speed limit, dodging between slow moving cars."

Heh. Used to live in Maryland. Unless things have radically changed since 15 years ago, the drivers out here are much worse Even the truckers say it. They're always on the CB talking about how if they had to drive here often they'd shoot themselves.


Blizzaks: They're AWESOME snow tires. Totally normal for them to be premounted on steel wheels, and it's a great way to get them. First off, you don't have to pay a tire shop to switch tires like you would if you put them on your good rims. Second, you can smack curbs all you want with the steelies and you won't care because . . well, they're steelies!

[Cynthetiq]

all my icelandic friends laughed when I showed them this....

the arctic trucks reduce their tire pressure because it allows for better traction in the SNOW, not the road, as witnessed by the pictures above.

the Blizzaks are great for the front wheeled cars, as that's what the MINI people are all driving around with now. Good traction and provides for good handling.

[denim]

Well, let me add something then. I accept that the Blizzaks are wonderful.

I'm concerned with when to switch 'em. If I get "all-season" tires which are good with snow/ice, I don't need to care about when the last snow fall is. How do you figure this one out?

[j8ear]

Originally posted by denim
If I get "all-season" tires which are good with snow/ice, I don't need to care about when the last snow fall is. How do you figure this one out?

If the place where you live shut's down or delays opening on as little as a forecast for snow, you probably don't need snow tires. A decent set of wet traction all-season's should probably do the trick just fine.

If life goes on only slightly inconvenienced when snow blankets and sticks in your area, then you probably need a good set of snow tires.

Tirerack has great prices (even shipped) on all tires, and will mount them on a steel rim for an extra 28 bucks per tire (I guess that depends on your carriage). It could easily cost you that much ($28) to have them mounted before winter, and changed back come spring.

-bear

[Sion]

denim, if the car is FWD, you really only need TWO snow tires, not four. Just put them up front. Sure, if you get 4 snow tires, you will get the best possible traction control, but generally speaking, the difference is negligible. Im guessing that Massachusetts winters are not all that different from Ohio winters, and if thats true, then you can get away with just 2 snow tires for the front.

now, if the car is RWD, then you WILL NEED FOUR snow tires, two for the drive wheels, two for the steer wheels.

[denim]

Definitely FWD. So I could buy two winter tires and keep my existing tires for filler. Hm.

The one comment I got on the "All Tires, All the Time" (ATAT?) site seems to say that doing the summer-tire/winter-tire thing is a Good Idea, rather than trying all-season tires. Any opinions on that?

[etla]

Originally posted by Sion
denim, if the car is FWD, you really only need TWO snow tires, not four. Just put them up front.

Watch this. A lot of places it is illegal to not have tires of matching "capability" on all four corners.

[denim]

I've been told we don't get enough road snow cover to justify snow tires 'round here, so I'm going with better all-season tires.

I placed my order this afternoon. The All-Tires/All-the Time site turns out to do a few other things as well, such as wheels and suspension products. Either way, I'll be 3-day FedEx'd these tires. Hey, it was cheaper than UPS Ground! Got an offer to mount and balance them for $10/tire.

It was strange. I can go with PepBoys, which offered these tires for US$104.99 each, plus that mount/balance charge, or with Tirerack.com for US$75 each, then take them to PepBoys to get them on the car.

I'm just hoping to be able to sell the OE tires to make some of this back.

[denim]

I came home yesterday and found tires in my living room. They look good.

[brandon11983]

Another vote for Blizzak's here. An associate of mine could all but floor his M5 and they would hook up. I'm looking at a set for my car. Directional, ultra high performance tires don't do so hot in midwestern winters you see....

[denim]

I got the all seasons tires installed yesterday. Now I need snow.

[billege]

Originally posted by shakran
Also, with an automatic, start in drive-2 - that'll force it to stay in 2nd gear which will give you better starts.

Without meaning to offend, this is completely untrue.
I do suppose that if you had an Autostick, or some other brand of manumatic like it, sure.

However, in a normal automatic car, putting the gear selector will only keep the engine from shifting beyond 2nd gear. The car will still start in first, not second. Keeping the selector in 2nd will keep you out of third, or fourth, but I don't know what good that'd do.

[denim]

Originally posted by billege
Keeping the selector in 2nd will keep you out of third, or fourth, but I don't know what good that'd do.

Won't that likely improve traction in the frozen stuff?

Uh, note my last message in this thread? Well, we've got some this morning. Looks like it'll melt by this afternoon, but I'll get to test my tires out on the way to work! Yay! Let's see how "all season" these things are.

[Ilow]

I thought "all season" was "all seasons as long as it's spring summer or fall". Almost killed myself with a set of Dunlop "all seasons" before I got my snows on. For anyone else who is looking for snows, check out townfair.com, there aren't any prices, but it lets you know the variety out there.

[denim]

If it does turn out that way, you can be sure I'll get the Blizzaks. EVEYRONE seems to like them, including the dealership I bought the car from.

[Bossnass]

I have a fwd car, have had this car 6 years, running all-season goodyears the entire time. I live in a somewhat snow covered part of the world, Edmonton Alberta, doing about 50-50 city vs highway driving. Never been stuck, never hit the ditch due to snow. Snow tires, in my opinion, are useless. I recently was even driving on a drifted lake to check in on some ice-fishermen.

[denim]

They worked!!

It snowed real good tonight, all wet and heavy. I got to the road my complex is on, right behind some kind of SUV. I watched the SUV spin its wheels, moving itty bitty amounts at a time.

I waited for a while, to see if I could get around it. Then I just went around it. No spinning wheels, no nasty noises. Just drove. Then I got to the REAL hill... and went right up it!

Yes! The tire search was worth it. I was going to tell the guy in the SUV he should get better tires, but it was a woman on a cell phone. No crowing allowed. Ah well, I can't have everything.

I did fill the gas tank first. That might matter a bit.

[merkerguitars]

Originally posted by billege
Without meaning to offend, this is completely untrue.
I do suppose that if you had an Autostick, or some other brand of manumatic like it, sure.

However, in a normal automatic car, putting the gear selector will only keep the engine from shifting beyond 2nd gear. The car will still start in first, not second. Keeping the selector in 2nd will keep you out of third, or fourth, but I don't know what good that'd do.

Works WONDERS going up icey hills.....the hill that goes up to my parents house from the town is usually icy in the winter....when my engine hits that shift point into third....I lose all my traction.......My car is GREAT in the snow I have wide meaty ass tires and my car is huge....nothing like having a big frontwheel drive with a heavy V8 engine

[pocon1]

I was in Canada last week, with my Bridgestone KDWS (killer dry, wet, snow), and they wored ok, but I have a subaru WRX. But I noticed every single car in Quebec had snow tires. Also, most were little subcompacts, very few RWD, only a few SUVs and pickup trucks.