Top ten easiest cars to modify.
 

Alright guys, I'd like your opinions on the cars that you think tuners like best. I'm thinking about writing an article for my website, Virtually Infamous Magazine. I did this once before on with another article helped by the sexuality board(click), so I figure you guys would be willing to help out again.

Here are some traits to think about:

-A common car that is relatively easy to find.
-Easy to find parts.
-Nets big gains for little money.
-Cheap to buy, easy to make look good AND fast.
-For the tuning impaired, has lots of shopst to have someone else build up the car of your dreams.
-For the tuning gurus, easy to access parts, does not require unbolting everything to get at one thing.
-Reliable daily driven speed.

Ok, I'd like for you to take this seriously and list the top 3 cars you'd suggest to the average college student who wanted it all with very little money. Give a valid argument and list of reasons on why those three cars would be the best choices.

Please, BE OPEN MINDED. I tried this on another board and they kept giving me one liners like "Car X is the best, there is no need for a top ten".

I'll start it off to give you an idea:

Acura Integra GSR: Tons of aftermarket support, plenty of bolt on parts that will provide immediate satisfaction. Has the ability to push 200 whp naturally aspirated, and even a moderately tuned teg has the ability to run high 14's low 15's. Those willing to go further can upgrade to forced induction and run 13's.

Nissan 240sx: Doesn't look too bad, has rear wheel drive, like a 2gnt, you can leave the stock engine and just turbo it with decent results. In the future, if you wanted to go all out, you can always do a silvia swap.

Subaru WRX: Since the new models are out, the older bug eyed versions are being sold cheap. There is plenty of after market support and even simple bolt ons can let you run 13's. All out people can get six speed swaps and full STi engine converstions.

Looking forward to your choices! Be sophisticated and technical, I may end up quoting you! Of course, if I do, tfp will be credited along with your quote.

I look forward to your feedback and info.

Any pre-1975 V8 american car. I say pre-75 because that's when catalytic converters killed everything. Depending on the state, you can't get away with ditching them. A 350 engine is easily modified to 400+ hp NA. Big blocks can do far more. I'd recommend a Corvette because they handle well and look good, but most any car from the era will do well for straight line speed. You'll also feel like you're going fast in these cars more than in modern ones.

Last gen turbo Rx-7 or Supra

Turbo AWD Eclipse/talon

The turbos in these cars are easily tweaked. Rx-7's look great and handle well. I have a friend who put I think $4k into his Rx-7, and matches Z06's on 60-100 times (the vette would destroy it from 0-60 though).

Civic/Integra is a given, they are the car to mod.
Mustangs are also super well supported by the aftermarket, you could prolly find a billet aluminum control knob for the climate control if you looked hard enough.
The new Focus is finding lots of aftermarket support. I think of them as the new Civic, cause there's a hatch version and they're cheap.

Wish it was easy to find parts for my car (Prizm/Corolla), cause my generation was skipped by TRD and the mod craze that we're in now didn't happen fast enough to include them.

hmm.... maybe its just a cult following, but there is good reason for it

Turbo Dodges ... K cars, caravans, etc. Very strong motor, dirt cheap car and engine parts, strong motor. Up the boost and its instand wheel-burning fun.

Turbo Volvos ... I like the looks of the old ones very much. They are known to go over 300k miles when driven hard quite often. Again, an intercooler, some boost, your good for great fun, super reliability, and easy insurance costs. A tad more expensive to fix up than a dodge, but much more reliable.

SBC 350 in anything earlier than 74. At least in CA, because thats when they quit checking smogs. SBC, is good for incredible amounts of power, relatively reliable, incredible aftermarket support and very cheap and easy to maintain parts.


I think any turbo car should be on that list. Turbos are VERY easy to get lots of power out of. I love the rx-7, buts its reliability isn't all that good, but for cheap it is THE single best source of weight/power out their. Also on the list could be the 2nd Gen Toyota MR2 Turbo. Good for 300rwhp in a great handling car, with stock internals, looks dead sexy, toyota reliability, etc... but they are hard to find and very expensive to buy or have worked on.

1st gen DSM. Same engine, no crap t-25, a better look, and no crankwalk. The 4g63 is a great engine that can be tuned very well. Its definatly where its at.


That or a LS1, they put down tons of power, and respond sooo well to bolt on mods its silly. Either way, depends what you want, sleek; or raw power.

Mustang of any gen..............easy to find parts for....
Any car with a small block chevy...
Honda civic........sorry to say but so much stuff out to customize it's scary

LOOKS, Honda and Acura are both easy to modified because there is a lot of aftermarket parts that is available. Peformance, I would go for the mustangs, but Jspec engines can also be bought these days and will provide a better HP. Air intakes/ Exhaust only yield about 10-20 hp depending on the type of car.

honda crx.

lightest of all the honda's (besides pre 1980's).
stuff a b18c5 (teg type r motor) in there i/h/e and some basic tuning and you have a mid 13 sec car for 4-6k

and i think they look sweet as hell... the original pocket rocket.

You can turn a Civic into anything you want to. Love it, hate it, I really don't think there is any car out there that is so endlessly modifiable.

Grand Am's are a common base for Lamborghini conversion kits (by which I mean body and interior mods.)

Let's not forget the VW/Audi cars with the 1.8T engines. A $400 chip can get you 40hp and 70ft/lbs. :D

Sorry guys, I didn't mean to give the impression that I wasn't open to domestic suggestions, i'm glad you v8 guys chimed in! :)

I am definately considering camaros/trans ams, the LT1 block is so very nice.

I'm not quite sure how I feel about mustangs. Mind you, it's not just about power when I talk about modifying. Never heard of mustangs anywhere but in a straight line. At least camaros have a reputation for decent handling.

Looks like there's alot of nods for honda/acura cars. I may just group them into one car, since building a honda is like playing with legos: everything fits into everything else.

Anybody want to give a nod to today's domestic compact scene? focus? cavalier? the awe inspiring srt-4?

Keep the feedback/suggestions coming, every piece of info helps me make the best top ten list!

Thanks again in advance.

Who said camaros and mustangs forgot that he asked about reliability. Also, the ability to turn and brake is very important.

Any Mk. 1 VW

I'd have to vote as well for any car with the 4g63 powerplant. The Eclipses and Talons of the 90's are still some of the fastest cars around, and they have a LARGE support group with the DSM community.

Can't forget the Supra. Couple of G's will get you 500hp. The stock internals are very strong on this car, capable of handling a bigger turbo without breaking too much of a sweat.



SLM3

sentra se-r's. well 91-94 or 200sx se-r 95-98 are my current fun econo box pocket rockets. i drive a 93 sentra se-r tons of fun stock. easily modified. you name it you can do it, well no supercharging but turbos are better anyway. and plentiful stock parts for hopups. since the motor comes in various varrients in other countries, easy to get a stock turbo manifold and turbo. want "vtec" you can get a sr20ve and drop it in, uber cool and powerful. tons of mods out there for them.

4g63's are ok, i just cant get down with the dsm community, they tend to be bigger ricers than honda camps. not knocking anyone here with one. but honestly how many dsm's have you seen with wide mouth front ends or huge wings? the motor is uber as it takes mods well. drive train is pretty good as well.

mk1 gti's are super sweet. dont expect tons of power, but they are so light weight you can make them do insane things for little to nothing.

miata's are fun....drop the top. makes any car fun. but dont ask too much out of the engines. they are not known for reliablilty. but god they are fun

The RSX has a gigantic aftermarket....

Supra

Eclipses

Eagles

I would like to point the rice finger at the 2nd gen (95 and up) DSM's. THe first gen ones are more for the power. There are ricer 1st gens but there is a serous lack of rice parts for those years. As for the stangs not being able to corner, have you ever been to a SCCA event? They are packed with mid 80's stangs.

I am not a ford fan but ai would have to say that for availability of parts Ford and Honda are the top 2.

My votes for top ten in no specific order:

Dodge Neon
1st Gen Eagle talon
Camaro
Stang
Dodge turbo K car
any other sbc or bbc chevy muscle fills in the rest.

G Bodies, i.e 78-87 Malibu, Regal, Monte Carlo, Grand Prix, El Camino, or Cutlass. TONS of aftermarket support, lightest full frame cars every produced by GM, factory 4 link rear suspension, and you'll be hard pressed to find something that wont fit in the engine bay; sbc's, bbc's, caddy 472 and 500's, rocket olds, LT1, you name it. IMO, 80-81 were the best looking years, and also got rid of some of the first 2 years problems (front suspension) and still no computer. Also, every suspension component is interchangable, including the frame from any 2 door, 4 door, landau, etc. Only the el camino was different as its wheelbase was slightly longer.

Thats the most ignorant statement I've ever heard.

Reliability of a car is only as good as its owner. I have worked on thousands of cars, all types....if you want reliability stories, let me know....


As for the original poster's request, heres what I'd say....

1.) ANY LT1 F-body: easy to find, and a decent one can be had for $5k and you've got near 300 HP STOCK, not to mention decent handling, both of which can be made much better for relatively cheap. For daily driving, far MORE reliable than a tuned import of similar (shit even somewhat lower) power levels.

2.) MK3 Supra: RWD, turbo fun, and again, decent HP out of the box.

3.) Nissan 240sx: RWD, good handler, CHEAP and VERY easy to find, somewhat lacking in power, but with excellent aftermarket support thats easy to overcome

I'll go with...

1. MR2 Turbo
   Pros: Rare, looks awesome stock, cheap and easy to get 250hp+ in a light midengine rear drive platform with simple parts like boost controller
   Cons: Rare, tuner car, need to do the work yourself, parts are more expensive then Honda, Mitsu, etc...not locally available and must be internet ordered. Shops charge more for mid-engine labor.
2. Fiero
   Pros: Engine Swaps Galore...Caddy Northstar, Lt1, LS1...any SBC etc...lots of aftermarket support
   Cons: Looks dated pre-modding, stock power is lacking
3. 1st and 2nd gen Turbo DSMs
   Pros: Superb aftermarket part support, very clearly delineated upgrade paths, easy power, many import shops comfortable with them.
   Cons: Engine not as strong as some turbo cars, Mitsubishi build quailty, crankwalk in the 2nd gens.
4. Turbo MkIII supras with the 2jz or 7m
   Pros: Inexpensive initially, easy and relatively inexpensive to make crazy fast and make it look good
   Cons: Not as much aftermarket appearance support as current imports
5. Any LT1 F-body (camaro/firebird)
   Pros: V8 Power out of the box, cheaper initial investment then LS1, and if you are modifying, the difference between LT1 and LS1 is almost lost
   Cons: More expensive than some of the older imports, not as easy to get quick cheap power as a turbo (but, in most cases, already has more power than the turbo after the turbo's been upgraded)
6. All Things Honda (Prelude, CRX, Civic, Teg)
   Pros: The best part and labor support, many options for customization and engine swaps.
   Cons: "just another honda"--Very common, FWD
7. 240SX
   Pros: Nearly cheapest initial investment to get into easily tuneable rear-drive import, rapidally developing aftermarket support, easily turbo'd
   Cons: Stock power can be considered anemic, newer models can be expensive for what they are and need aggressive appearance modification to not look like Camry's.
8. J-body's (Cavalier, sunfires)
   Pros: Very decent aftermarket support, and a competitive amount of factory horsepower.
   Cons: FWD, not as many appearance mods and tuning shops available as Hondas.

I am really slipping. I forgot the turbo buick (gn, gnx, and turbo regal).

Bad30th, of course you have worked on thousands of those cars. Just walk down the street, you'll see them scattered all over the place. Just use your nose and sniff for the oil leaks and burned up engines. Sometimes I spend all day driving around their decrepit bodies, dodging bits of rust that they have strewn across the roadway like autumn leaves. Junkyard parts abound, because thats what they are; junkyards.

What about the new Caviler(sp)?

I prefer to think of this in terms of motors not cars...

1. 2GZ-GTE (Supra) any motor that can do 800+ RWHP on a STOCK motor you have to give mad props to
2. LS1/LS6 (Camaro/Corvette) by far the most efficent small block chevy
3. 4G63 (DSM) Very stout motor, can handle a TON of boost stock.

For those who said that eclipse people are ricers... it's really not fair. Ever since The Fast and the Furious came out, eclipse/talon people have really broken up into two groups: The racers and the ricers.

You only think all eclipse people are ricers because the real racers--the real dsmers--their cars look like stock.. but push 400+ hp and run 12's all night. Don't forget, more then 80% of the eclipses on the road aren't 4g63 turbo engines. They're 140 horsepower naturally aspirated engines borrowed from chrysler's neon. (which by the way isn't a bad engine at all, since neon's have been known to run 9's and 10's)

For the GM people, which engine is the one that's in the high end camaro and corvette? LS1 or LT1? I always get them confused.

Thank you telekinetic for layin down your choices so clearly. I hope others do the same!

LS1's are the current base engine in vettes. LT1's used to be the base engine.

1st gen dsms with AWD have a crazy amount of modding potential. They are cheap and the AWD makes for awesome launches. 5.0 Mustangs can be made fast cheap too, but I would take a DSM over one any day.

The LS1 and LS6 are by no means smallblock chevies. They are a true corporate motor with NOTHING in common with the SBC.

Helps when you read and comprehend posts before you respond, but.....

That's pretty clever. How's that workin' out for you.....being clever...... :rolleyes:

The LT1 is the older of the two, and the LS1 does have more power out of the box.

The only reason I said LT1 and not LS1 is because with the LS1, you are going to pay more for the car initially, and insurance on the newer LS1 cars is quite a bit more from what I've found.

And when you are talking about modding the two, the difference is almost negligable.

In other words, yes, LS1>LT1 in terms of power, but also in terms of cost, LS1>>>LT1.

Just my experiences...

I've worked on lots of vw's and civic/integra's, but for my money any older chevy is worth it's weight. The ease of the engine bay, the availabliity of parts and basic tools needed are where it's at.

Guys, let's make sure we keep it polite and civil. You don't have to agree, but you're not allowed to fight. I don't think I have to give names, you know who you are. Make sure it doesn't get out of hand.

No wthat I think about it, and read the part about not wanting to have to unbolt everything to out one piece in, I would have to stay away from any recent import, or domestic car built within the pat 10 years. I'd rather put a blower on an old Chevy than shred my knuckles trying to cram a turbo into a Honda's engine bay. I'm not saying that this is the only way to go, I'm just saying I have big hands.

Top 10 easiest cars to modify? Pick anything with a Chevrolet 350 or a Ford 5.0 liter in it. Don't believe me? Go to jegs (www.jegs.com) and summit ( www.summitperformance.com ) and if you can't build a 400 horsepower block from parts there, you don't need to be around car engines. Any car that came with that block also has a full list of suspension , handling and braking, and transmission upgrades availiable from those companies too. Join the masses. Become a sheep.

I am a definate anti-sheep person, but in all reality you are almost always going to be a sheep.

If you mod any chevy v-8 there are 1.5 billion already ahead of you.

If you mod a stang or 5.0, again 1.5 billion have been there first.

Honda, yeah, same thing.

No matter what you choose there are usualy a bunch of people ahead of you by now. Yeah there might some really rare moding projects, but then they would not make the top ten because they are so rare.

Thats what I was trying to imply, if you go for the top 10 cars you are sheeping :)

If you want to be a non-sheep, run with obscure cars that are hard and expensive to modify. I'm ok with being a sheep though. Just depends on you.

Heres a guy definitely not a sheep, creating a 48 cylinder bike ( that is not a typo]
48 cylinder bike?!?!

It runs. I have a video of it.

To be hones I want to see that vid. It looks a little fake.

Sure.

http://www.home.zonnet.nl/ruiter2432/48.wmv
Load time is pretty slow, crappy server.

The bike you are seeing has 24 two-stroke 3 cylinder KH250 engines in it. The middle cylinder is not used. Custom crankshafts, custom everything. Absolutely ridiculous.
This bike was made by Allan Millyard, from the UK.

This guy is the best bike engine modifier in the world, IMO. He put 24 KH250 blocks into that bike. He runs a machine shop that builds custom bike engines and does all the regular engine work. , such as a custom 7 cylinder, a V8 , and a V12 for classic bikes.

Ok, well now I am officialy impressed. I have to give that guy major props for that. It is every thing I love in a project. There is no reason for anything like that but he did it cause he could. THAT IS SO FREAKIN COOL!

Yeah, it impressed the hell out of me too :)

ashton said:

LOL! You Ricers talk a long line of shit for people that only see the color of Camaro tailights as we smoke your little cars off the road

That really cuts to the quick dosen't it? When a stock Camaro rips your "pumped up" ricer....... Racing rice is so boring I only tear them a new one when their girlfriend is in the car, then they taste the bitter truth of a warmed over LS1....

I just want to know, if Camaros are so great, why Is GM not making them anymore? My coworker had a 96 trans am with the ram air fron, and he got rid of his after 70,000 miles because he was worried that things would start breaking soon. He still talks about when he got smoked by a 300zx and he wonders what was in it that was so powerful.
I actually like a lot of cars, but Ashton, you talk a lot of stuff about v8's and you have no respect for anything else. So I am going to tweak you about it and call you out. Besides, its getting to the point where all of these cars are starting to blend together anyways. Pontiac is importing its new gto from Australia, GM owns some of Subaru and it is going to base its new saab on a subaru, Saturn is buying engines from honda, etc... Next I am going to get on the rotary vs. piston thread and say that the piston go's boing boing bong, and the rotary go's hmmm. HAHAHA!

Actually it goes like this

Gen I SBC - what your talking about
Gen II SBC - LT1
Gen III SBC - LS1

That is how GM classifies them Its still a small block, and its still a chevy. :icare:

How is this even a valid argument? There have been numerous great cars over the years that went out of production, but because they arent being made anymore, they arent even worth mentioning? I dont understand....


So this must mean that all F-Bodies will always break because you friend was worried? And that all 300zx's are better than all F-Bodies because your friend got beat by one in his TA? Theres always someone faster..... (and that goes both ways)

....and Ashton's the one who doesnt respect anything else?

Okay.....:rolleyes:

The 300Z was what, $38,000 new back in 96? That would translate to a $43,000 car now , and the last year camaros/fireturds were still <$30k in most cases. Lets hope they can beat a camaro, considering they have twin turbos, weigh 800 pounds less with a better weight distribution, and cost $10,000+ more when bought new. Nevermind the fact that a $500 nitrous kit on a Z28 camaro or WS6 Fireturd would blow a stock 300Z out of the water in a drag race.

AND BTW:

Nitrous is not 'cheating'. It is a legitimate performance mod for straightline racing. In fact, for most people , it is a prefered mod as it it is cheap and is not on all the time, and has little effect on long-term reliability if you use it only when you are draggin' it.

While it can bust up blocks pretty quickly, the right nitrous control systems will insure a long life for the block, and American v8s are generally alot beefier(read : heavy) and can take the abuse better than lightweight four cylinders. Fact of life : more metal equals more resistance to exploding.

Actually booradley, a lot of the articles I read claim that for instance a stock nissan sentra bottom end can support up to 400 hundred hp, through nitrous, turbo, whatever. That's from 140 hp. For a 5.7 v8 to match the efficiency of a sentra 1.8, it would have to make about 440 hp. If you figure that the 5.7 has 3.2 times the displacement, it would have to put out approximately 1200 hp to match the strength of a nissan sentra engine. I have never heard of any v8 going to that level without new pistons, con rods, rings, crankshaft, valvetrain, arp studs, and numerous other items. in the end, you keep the block and buy all new pieces to mount on it.
Yes, you can argue all day about no replacement for displacement, but for sheer efficiency and strength of design, the sentra wins hands down.
as far as camaros and such, the new 350z costs less than $28,000 and matches the performance of the old 300z without twin turbos. 3.5 liter with 287 hp. try a $500 dollar nitrous kit on that.

You got a point there... but the 300Z was a very expensive car back in the day. Yes, it could beat a camaro. I am not arguing for "no replacement for displacement" but I am arguing there is no CHEAP replacement for displacement...

Well, the sentra bottom end can hold up to 400 HP, but how about the top end? Also, peak HP probably won't help too much in a short drag race, and the camaro already has 200 ilb-ft over the sentra to begin with. You are right, no V8 could stand being boosted to 1200 HP without major work ... but you don't NEED to go that far, all you'd need would be a short jaunt into 475 horsepower land ( easily and cheaply achievable ) to win a race... and I guarentee it would be much cheapier to build a 475 horsepower camaro engine ( through use of whatever) than it would be to build a 1.8 Sentra engine that could hold the stresses.

If you would like some numbers, think about it this way.

A sentra produces 140 hp stock. If you boosted it to 400 hp, that is 285% of stock power output. Now, engines are built to withstand much more force than they can output for reliabilites sake, but how long does a 400 hp build on a sentra engine last? Point out a reference somewhere that says you can get 200,000 miles on a turbo/NOS sentra engine with stock internals. Replacing a whole engine increases overall cost, more so than replacing just the internals of an engine.

Another way to illustrate it is forces per piston. Take a 400hp camaro and a 400 horsepower sentra. If you generalize it to say "each piston has 100 horsepower" ( which would be the case of the sentra) instead of "each piston has 50 horsepower", which do you think is going to break first? Heres a hint : Not the camaro. Both have the same amount of horsepower at the crank but the camaro has twice the amount of metal to deal with the horsepower without breaking. And in realitiy, it would be more than twice the amount of metal as the camaro has wider pistons so less force over a complete area. If the camaro had to endure the amount of force on each piston as the 400hp sentra did, then it would produce 800hp ( impossible without major mods by sheer force)

Now, you have a camaro. They come with ~300 hp stock. You build it up to 400 horsepower. That is 133% more horsepower than stock. That is well within the acceptable forces and reliability range. There are plenty of Chevy V8s out there that have been modified to produce more power and still have >200k miles on them without a rebuild. I'm from Kentucky, and this describes most farm trucks that family and friends has.

Of course, the sentra would still win if both cars had 400 horsepower.

Just to set the record straight for people like booradley and bad30th, I am not actually against domestics and v8's. I actually like all performance cars, as long as they perform. I don't expect an integra to have the power of a mustang, and I don't expect a mustang to handle as well as an integra. but there is a type of writing called satire, which I do employ in my posts occasionally. It is usually directed against people who make snide comments and digs for no reason. People like ashton. Allow me to quote from his first post:


Besides, just about any Camaro, Trans Am or Mustang with a V8 can whip a modified import STOCK!

Rice-A-Roni The American V8's Favorite Treat!

No one else had made any claim about one type of car being better than another, until ashton came along. Ashton made this comment where no one else had been aggresively obnoxious, so I proceeded to cut him down. Apparently some people got confused about my satire. I regret any inconvenience this may have caused.
BTW, here is the definition of satire, from wordnet 2.0:

1. sarcasm, irony, satire, caustic remark -- (witty language used to convey insults or scorn; "he used sarcasm to upset his opponent"; "irony is wasted on the stupid"; "Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own"--Johathan Swift)

Here is an example of satire, as previously posted by me.

Bad30th, of course you have worked on thousands of those cars. Just walk down the street, you'll see them scattered all over the place. Just use your nose and sniff for the oil leaks and burned up engines. Sometimes I spend all day driving around their decrepit bodies, dodging bits of rust that they have strewn across the roadway like autumn leaves. Junkyard parts abound, because thats what they are; junkyards.

LOL :lol:

It always amuses me when a discussion involving domestic vs import cars turns into a flamewar such as a fundie vs atheist thread at Fark,


I picked three cars that fit every one of the posters specifications,
there isn't one import or very many domestics that fit all of these specifications......

-A common car that is relatively easy to find. ~ This ones easy enough....... plenty of choices.

-Easy to find parts. ~ I assume this means stock replacement parts, this one is easy except if cost is a factor. The 350 ~ 302 are hands down the best choice when it comes to the cost of parts, and aftermarket parts for Camaros, Trans Am's and Mustangs are widely available from many companies........

-Nets big gains for little money.~ Now here's where it gets sticky, "BIG gains for LITTLE money" sure you can make any car fast, but the little money part puts a damper on most choices...... the 350 and 302 are already powerful engines, so as a inexpensive starting point you can't make a better choice.

-Cheap to buy, easy to make look good AND fast.~ A decent Camaro, Trans Am or Mustang can be bought for around $5000, they already look good and are fast stock, a perfect base to start from.

-For the tuning impaired, has lots of shops to have someone else build up the car of your dreams. ~ This ones easy enough if you forget about the cost factor, I don't know of many shops that are willing to add mods to imports cheaply...... of course having a shop add mods to a Camaro, Trans Am or Mustang isn't going to be cheap either, but the type of mods you would have them install would be much easier and take less time which means lower cost.

-For the tuning gurus, easy to access parts, does not require unbolting everything to get at one thing. ~ Now this one is the killer of most choices, "easy to access parts" dosen't even come close to any import or quite a few domestics, while a Camaro, Trans Am or Mustang's parts can be accessed without much difficulty...... not to say everything is going to be easy, but for the most part there is plenty of room to work with.

-Reliable daily driven speed. ~ This one depends, any over modded car is going to have problems......


And as to this~


I said "just about any" which is by far the truth, anybody with money can build a import that can beat a stock Camaro...... but they are few and far between, and I'm sure there are a few really expensive imports that can beat a Camaro stock, the fact of the matter is that without dumping a bunch of money into a import or buying one that is ridiculously expensive you aren't going to beat a Camaro.


My statement my seem "aggresively obnoxious" to you pocon1 but it is far less obnoxious than your statement, I never said imports were pieces of shit which is what your opinion of Camaro's sounds like with this line......

You may call that satire but I call it "flamebait"

Seriously guys, both Ashton and pocon1. This isn't a Fark thread, we're adults. Let's behave with some maturity.

Yes, there are stock domestics (ie: Mustangs, Camaros, Trans Ams) that will beat your average tuned import (ie: your neighbor's Civic). However, there are stock imports (ie: 3000GT VR-4) that will beat your average tuned domestic (your neighbor's Focus).

In the future, let's just offer our own constructive advice without trying to rip at other people's posts. After all, we're just trying to compile a comprehensive list of cars, not an exclusive list of what we can agree on are good cars to mod. If you think that domestic cars are worthless for modding, just don't mention them. Same goes for imports.

If you want a "ARG" factor to a car, try changing spark plug on a camaro. ACK. I love displacement and so on and so forth, but give me my neon any day over the old camaro. I only had an old v-6 and that was a mild PITA. My friend had a 3rd and 4th gen and the plugs were just a bitch. You think gm would have tried a little harder to make them more accesable.

Pocon1: Let me tell you a little secret about satire and sarcasm on the internet......it is impossible for the reader of your posts to judge whether or not you are being sarcastic on the internet :)

Do everyone (including yourself) a favor and use :p or ;) or :D or something to help us realize when you are joking and when you are not.

Now if you like all performance cars that perform, I can comletely respect that. But keep in mind that automotive stereotypes are usually just as unfounded as all other stereotypes. When you said, "I don't expect an integra to have the power of a mustang, and I don't expect a mustang to handle as well as an integra." There are many Integras out there that will out-power a lot of 'Stangs, and there are many 'Stangs out there that will hand an Integra its ass in the handling department.

One last thing...about your Sentra-strength-and-efficiency argument.... The numbers you are talking about are correct, so technically you are right, but.......so what.
Its still only making 140 HP. The efficiency argument is completely pointless unless the engine size can be scaled up.

For example....if I have a 0.5L (no not a 5.0) engine making 100 HP. Efficient as hell, right?

Now say I can magically scale that same engine up to, say, 3.0L. Now it is making 600 HP. This magical engine is amazing and impressive, but that little 0.5L engine still sucks ass because it is still only making 100 HP , and 100 HP just plain sucks :)

I dont know how clear my example is, but do you see my point? If a car is super-efficient, but is still under powered, whats the point? I guess when thats the only thing to brag about.......

I dunno....not trying to start/perpetuate a flame war or anything. :D

And apologies to the original poster for this entire thread-jack :crazy:

Best plugs I ever saw....1967 Camaro with a 396 and A/C. You had to pull the engine to change spark plugs. I don't think so.

holy shitballs. The wheel well wasn't removable ? :S

This is my apology to mustang and camaro fans. Like I said, I am not against these cars, and I always have said that they make a crapload of power. But I came up with an idea to check out the stock vs modified imports vs domestic idea. The most recent issue of Grassroots motorsports came out and they listed all of the top cars and times for the solo 2 nationals. For each class, cars all can only be modified to the sames standards. For instance, stock allows new tires, new struts, front roll bar, and brake pads. Here are some examples of stock cars and their top times on the course.
super stock
02 corvette zo6 113.04
03 corvette zo6 113.048
b stock
01 honda s2000 113.921
00 honda s2000 113.493
c stock
99 mazda miata 107.798
99 mazda miata 109.441
d stock
03 bmw 330ci 118.062
01 acura integra type r 118.346
f stock
95 chevrolet z-28 109.497
89 chevrolet 350 iroc-z 109.863
g stock
01 toyota celica gt 112.963
85 honda crx si 113.828
Holy crap! the only cars the 8 and 15 year old pony cars did not beat were the mazda miatas. How does an old pony car beat a new corvette zo6 with the same potential level of preparation?
Moving to the prepared classes. Again, same potential level of preparation for each car.
b prepared
87 mazda rx7 turbo 106.38
87 mazda rx7 turbo 110.024
c prepared
88 ford mustang 102.66
93 ford mustang 102.766
e prepared
86 honda civic 101.847
85 honda civic 102.79
even in the modified classes, the cars were competitive with other models out there.
So again, mea culpa. These numbers show that the domestic v8 can match on a course that requires acceleration, handling, and braking.

We really need to be a little more specific. i have friends that race SCCA and such. So have learned a lot about scca through that. One thing being is that there are 3 major cars that dominate the scca, 80's stang, miata, and the neon. I am not saying that other cars do not kick ass but those are the big 3. Now the thing with scca is that it is small curvy courses where high hp is a killer. You can break your tires loose in a second and seconds count. The fastest cars in scca are those little open wheel race cars. Most of them have motorcycle engines in them. In scca hp is not the key, good ovarall car tuning is. Now if we step to drag racing, well not massive hp is key. What about gt road racing. Well not we need good amounts of hp, great road holding and the ability to run for an hour or 2 at those levels.

So to really do this topic good we need to say, "What are the top 10 cars for, off road, what are the top for drag, top for scca, top for street racers, ease of moding, budget modding....." An the list could go one for a long time.

Now if you really want to see a car that has hard to change spark plugs check this. 1979 ford ltd:

1st, unbolt body and seperate.
http://images.cardomain.com/member_i...16_15_full.jpg
2nd, pull the fame and engine out from car.
http://images.cardomain.com/member_i...16_17_full.jpg
3rd, marvel at the seperated car.
http://images.cardomain.com/member_i...16_20_full.jpg
Lastl you now have complete access to the engine and you can change your plugs. :D
http://images.cardomain.com/member_i...16_19_full.jpg

You should see how you change the oil. :crazy:

Ok, just kidding. I did all of that for the lo lo project. but I had to throw that in for the spak plug thing. Oh yeah that that car, 79 ltd, basic 5.0 just like every stang on the road. You can get parts for the engine ANYWHERE. You need parts for the rest of the car, freaking for get it!

Pocon1: Congratulations on completely changing my perceptions of you :D I am not saying that domestic V8s are the be-all and end-all of power or handling, but they do definitely hold their own :) Thank you for actually informing yourself (and others) instead of just lashing out like so many are so inclined to do

Kudos to you :cool:

PS: I have been doing a lot of SCCA autocrossing lately and (in my area anyway) the 80's Stangs and the Neons dont exactly dominate..... I see more Miatas, WRXs, Integras, and (believe it or not) F-Bodies running the fast times, but, meh...its all fun :p

I autocross in the D.C. region and there just are not that many domestics. I mostly see BMW's corvettes, Miatas. Integras, tons of Mini Coopers, Volkswagens, and other smaller cars. There are a few muscle cars, but not that many to compare to. When I think domestic autocrosser, I see Ford Focus, which is a decent little car. so seeing the times from the nationals laid out was quite a shock, because I am only used to the D.C. region.

And as long as the poor Camaro doesnt have to turn sharp, you stay in the lead, when they do... well, watch out for telephone poles :).

Just kidding man, I like camaros and whatnot, My dads got the 67 rs/ss restoration on the way. But a riced out eclipse, or wrx, or even a Civic done right is gunna handle the sharp corners so much better.

ok back to the original question......

I like the pre-1985 small blocks, as they have the cheapest parts (price, not quality) and the most abundance of parts. I cream my pants every time i get my JEGS or Summit catalogue because there are sooo many parts for my engine in there. ( I run a 350 in my truck). Not to say that imports are bad if you are into that sort of thing as you can get good performance while still maintian some shred of fuel economy. However with people driving trucks with built engines such as mine down the highway, I would rather go fast in 3800 pounds of steel than 2500 pounds of plastic....i just feel safer ;)

it also depends on what kind of performance you want. If you want something that handle well and is quick, a Nova with a 400 hp 383 smallblock probably isnt your best option. However if you just want something to embarras that one douchebag in front of his hot girlfriend at the stoplight in a haze of tiresmoke, (which is what i enjoy doing) get yourself a big old car with an even bigger engine and you will be laying rubber in the cheapest way possible

Did you even read the thread??? :confused: We have already addressed exactly this kind of idiotic stereotype.

Mmmm...six month bump....uninformed but trendy cliche bashing knows not the boundaries of time and space.

What the hell was this thread about? the whole 2nd page had nothing to do with the topic, ah well does my 2.5RS fit into any of these catagories? That is all.

I did read the thread, it was intended for semi humor, and the stats already stated support what I wrote so....

I would respond, but I can only read english.

Dude.... why? The original post was from when I was refered here to get some info. I check it out, post something I intended mostly for humor since everyone else was flaming and I get ripped. In the end most of the people here who brag about their V8's, or ricers... Have only driven the cars they brag about, and probably dont have enough expirience in both kinds of cars to really offer an objective opinion.


Cmon man, grow the fuck up.

Alright. I'm going to try really hard not to flame you. However, if you don't want to start shit, don't tell me to 'grow the fuck up'...

I have autocrossed a modified-class turbo 240sx, a street-prepared NA Mr2, and a street prepared LT1 Camaro, and the LT1 Camaro kicked the liviing shit out of both of the other cars...no comparison. The MR2 is mine, and I could effortlessly turn in better times in the Camaro that I very rarely drive, on relatively low speed courses that are mostly sharp turns.

Also, now that you edited the R out of your post, you changed it from being grammatically wrong to being factually wrong.

Observe the Stats for stock cars, sorted by lap time:

So, seeing as lower times = better, the Integra Type R, the Peak of Honda Performance, got spanked by both a 95 Z28, AND an 89 Iroc

What interpretation of these stats led you to believe that they supported your statements that camaros win as long as they don't turn?








Alright, that said, there are an Integra, a Camaro, and a worked Firebird at our local autocross that are unbelivably fast cars with good drivers, and the integra usually comes out on top.

And once, just for fun, one of the instructers beat most of the "sports cars" in the field in his bone-stock civic daily driver. :lol:

Ya that was quite the humbling experience to get spanked by a stock Civic. Driver is E V E R Y T H I N G .

Dude, Ill readily admit Im not a "driver" and that in reality, I know a little less then most about cars, the grow the fuck up was purely for the manar in which you said the shit dude. Chill

Moving to the prepared classes. Again, same potential level of preparation for each car.
b prepared
87 mazda rx7 turbo 106.38
87 mazda rx7 turbo 110.024
c prepared
88 ford mustang 102.66
93 ford mustang 102.766
e prepared
86 honda civic 101.847
85 honda civic 102.79

These were the times I was looking at really. Hey look, honda civic... less then a ford mustang, go figure. I wouldnt expect a 4 banger to take out the V8 stock.

Just take the edge off the temper man, a fucking typos nothing to throw insults about. Thats all I ask. You dant want to feel insulted, and I dont want to feel insulted, cant we all just get along?

repost

will this battle ever end, I know what side I'm on, I'd put my Subie up against a good ole V8 for shits and giggles any day.

its not about sides guys....thats the point.

Cars rule, dude! Bicycles suck ass!

Walking sucks, too! The only thing my foot does is push on the gas, and kick some ass!

Aaaand....signature :lol:

So awesome! hehe :lol:

search far and long for a GVR4 mits galant vr4, made for two years 90-91, 4wd turbo supa sleeper.........i get a ride in a modded one now and then ....very very fast and no one sees it comin.......

1999-2001 Subaru Impreza 2.5RS

Integra Type R the peak of Honda Performance? Are we forgetting the NSX, the S2000, ya the Integra is a great car but isn't the peak of Honda Performance so those numbers are useless IMO

I think about skylines i heard rb25s will bolt into my r31 upping the hp from 185 to 250 not including any mods ie. exhaust air intake injectors. Also dodges are not too hard to modify like the daytona turbo any turbo for that matter just intercool them and get someone to turn the boost up to 15 and you have instant 200 plus hp especially if you have a 2200 pound omni or charger turbo. Honda with the b16 stock from the factory is a good place of origin lightweight again plus vtec juice. Corolla gts twin cam mtr in a corolla ae86 and itbs. Ford Taurus SHO perfect sleeper 24 valve dohc.

This thread is old enough that a new one might be appropriate given the dynamic nature of the subject.

Do you mean the R31, the 1985-1989 Skyline sold in Australia, Japan, and South Africa? It came with either the RB30 or the RB20. Or do you actually mean with the Z31, offered 1983-1989 in the US as the 300ZX, which came with the VG30DE/DE?

For what it's worth, I only know people with 240SX's who have swapped RB25 motors, and all three of them (WITHOUT EXCEPTION) have since sold their motorsets and put in LS1's.

^ especially since the OP mentioned "that tuners like best"

I find that tuners usually like to modify cars that have a substantial enough population base that they can make some profit by selling their mod parts and kits.

I've had my '95 Supra for 10 years and in that time it went from being one of the top tuner cars to nearly falling off the radar screen except for a couple "respectful" show cars that pop up here and there, and of course for those of us who still choose to own and modify one of these great cars. It's still a super-stout platform that's relatively easily modified and it does everything very well. So I'm still very happy with mine and will continue to modify it to suit my changing goals. It's my favorite money-pit for the forseeable future.