Motorcycle Saftey course: Reason 1

[GSRIDER]

<embed src="http://www.housing3d.com/stuff/mrQ_bought_a_motorcycle.mpeg"></embed>

A prime example why it is wise to learn before you ride.

link to page and larger image

[Peryn]

Thats funny every time i see it. Still, i dont know how to ride a motocyle, but how hard could it be to turn to teh right a little?

[GSRIDER]

The first thing they teach you is to get your feet on the pegs.

I'm prayin this isn't a repost... I searched for it before posting.

[Moonduck]

Wow. That's hilarious

[hrdwareguy]

Originally posted by Peryn
Thats funny every time i see it. Still, i dont know how to ride a motocyle, but how hard could it be to turn to teh right a little?

You'd be surprised. I remember taking my first bike home from the dealer. I had ridden a friends bike around a parking lot a bit before I made a purchase but still, learning to turn correctly took awhile.

[Stare At The Sun]

Man, thats why i wont ride a 'cycle, that would so be me...

Prime example indeed

[merkerguitars]

What a moron.....should of started out with a smaller bike...:S

[Elitegibson]

Looks like he deserves what he gets. He has an aztek.

[thadon]

damn, start off w/ something besides a Ducati .. hello fool you just dropped your Duc

[skinbag]

That is excellent!! I almost drove off of the outside of a turn-around when I test drove my first bike. I did know how to pull in the clutch and hit the brakes, though. That was before I had heard of helmets and MSF courses.

[RemyLebeau97]

Wow, I have to show this to my riding buddies.

[JBX]

What a dumb ass.

[Baldrick]

Is it wrong that I winced in pain when I watched this? Not for the idiot who is picking bark from between his teeth, but for that beautiful bike!

I never cease to be amazed when friends or neighbours come by and claim they have always wanted to ride a bike, and ask me if they can take one of my baby's "around the block". Ummmm... no...

[Sion]

ouch, that had to hurt.


here's a tip: if you cant put your feet down flat, the bike is TOO big for you.

[ducati999]

Originally posted by Baldrick

I never cease to be amazed when friends or neighbours come by and claim they have always wanted to ride a bike, and ask me if they can take one of my baby's "around the block". Ummmm... no...

Soo true...people think that just because they can drive a stick and ride a bicycle that they can ride a motorcycle......

[never]

HAHa thats great. i hope some day i can learn

[MSD]

Two years ago, that would've been me. Now I'm smart enough to wait until I can afford a bike and riding lessons.

[ziadel]

ROFL!!! (not at the vid, at some of you dudes )

first off, thats a suzuki SV650... NOT A DUCATI, how anyone could make that mistake is really beyond me...



second off, that bike isn't too big for ANYONE, that thing is knocking out about 60hp, ANYONE with an iq above 10 can handle that, and besides that, its right up there with the little ninja's for being a 'good learner bike' at least with most people...


second off, flat-footing doesnt mean crap, if you cant flat foot a bike, doesnt mean its too big, just means you have short legs and need to take a little more care while stopping, theres plenty of women out there who can't flat foot a bike (but can ride like the wind) and the GP starting grids are FILLED with guys who cant flat foot a bike....


third - the MSF course is crap. its just crap. disagree with me all you want, but it actually is BAD for new riders IMO...

[Sion]

"second off, flat-footing doesnt mean crap, if you cant flat foot a bike, doesnt mean its too big, just means you have short legs and need to take a little more care while stopping, theres plenty of women out there who can't flat foot a bike (but can ride like the wind) and the GP starting grids are FILLED with guys who cant flat foot a bike...."


if you are just learning to ride a bike, as this guy OBVIOUSLY is, then you should do it on a bike that fits you size-wise. this guy is tip-toeing to keep the bike upright. that is a BAD idea for a first time rider. he should be on a much smaller bike. as for the women and GP riders you mentioned, Id bet the farm that EVERY one of them learned to ride on a bike they could flatfoot.

[Moonduck]

The SV650 (and I thought that is what it was) is definitely too big for some people. It's relatively tall in the saddle. My 5'1" wife wouldn't be able to safely ride that thing as she couldn't gracefully keep it upright at a stop.

[ziadel]

sorry dude, gonna have to once again disagree...

I know plenty of peeps who started out on 600's for their first bikes, that they could not flat foot Sion, and they are maniacs now...

and Moonduck, you wife doesnt need to be gracefull at a stop, she just needs to not drop the bike.... which is easy enough to learn how to do...

you just need to try to do it a few times

[mystic511]

I know exactly how that guy feels. Granted, I didn't bust my face on a tree, but the only time I was on a bike (well, a scooter), i hit the throttle, couldn't turn properly, and couldn't find the brakes in time to stop myself.

Luckily I was only going like 5 mph, and my friend managed to catch me and the bike before I drove straight into a store's doorway.

My MSE course is on Nov 7. I can't wait!

[asudevil83]

$10 says that wasnt even his bike, it was the guy who ran after him....probably making sure his bike was alright.

[Moonduck]

"and Moonduck, you wife doesnt need to be gracefull at a stop, she just needs to not drop the bike.... which is easy enough to learn how to do..."

Sure thing. Now look at it from the perspective of a woman, 5'1", not as strong as you or I. She gets on that tall-ass bike and has to learn how to hold it up while learning how to ride it. There is also the fatigue factor from having to fight your ride at every light.

I'm not saying it can't be done, bro, just that there are better choices.

[ziadel]

Originally posted by mystic511
My MSE course is on Nov 7. I can't wait!

just keep in mind, half the stuff they will tell you is flat out wrong

[GSRIDER]

Originally posted by ziadel
just keep in mind, half the stuff they will tell you is flat out wrong

Also keep in mind it cuts your insurance rates in half.

[jvwgtr]

I found the course somewhat helpful, even though riding the little 125 bikes they gave us was a slightly different experience than the 1100 I learned on.
Everybody always asks if they can "try out" your bike.
Uh no, and you can't take my toothbrush for a test drive, either.

[theguyondacouch]

Originally posted by ziadel
just keep in mind, half the stuff they will tell you is flat out wrong

Wow, your a real fuckin troll, huh? Your actin like jack off and you know it.

[Snakebyt]

hahaha.. i havent seen that one yet.. thats funny

[sTghezzo]

thats why i dont ride bikes. american made cars are the way to go ladies and gents, im talkin pre-75, when they were made of steel.

[ziadel]

Originally posted by theguyondacouch
Wow, your a real fuckin troll, huh? Your actin like jack off and you know it.

now whatever makes you say that??


MSF instructors on average are morons who really have no business riding motorcycles or driving cars for that matter, and they do more harm than good to newbies by not filling in critical gaps in the information they give.
I mean for fucks sake, the ones we have in my area REFUSE to ride the highways AT ALL, FOR ANY REASON, and I've heard of others like that, and you think its ok for that to be teaching new people how to ride?

now, either one of two things is going on here.


1. You dont know how to ride a bike, and never took the MSF course and are just making a kneejerk reaction to that which you have no idea about..
2. You ride and believe the MSF course is god's gift to newbies and is the first line of defense against squids... which its not, period.

troll? nope, ya know I actually had a buddy of mine tell me this:

Q: "What do I do if I go into a corner too fast?'

MSF A: "Don't do that."

Q: "well what if I do?"

MSF A: "Just don't."



you expect me to believe that these people actually contribute something positive to newbies?



sorry dude, I dont mean to be harsh here, but your not in the know.





and it doesnt cut your insurance rate in half, I think progressive told me it would give me a 10% cut...

[dy156]

Don't want to get in the middle of a heated discussion here, but the video reminds me of my friend, who just recently broke his lower leg in three places. He had never ridden a bike but one of his employees kept pestering him to go dirt bike riding. He finally gave in, and now has a titanium rod for a shin. Makes the video not quite so funny.

[BooRadley]

Originally posted by ziadel
ROFL!!! (not at the vid, at some of you dudes )

first off, thats a suzuki SV650... NOT A DUCATI, how anyone could make that mistake is really beyond me...



second off, that bike isn't too big for ANYONE, that thing is knocking out about 60hp, ANYONE with an iq above 10 can handle that, and besides that, its right up there with the little ninja's for being a 'good learner bike' at least with most people...


second off, flat-footing doesnt mean crap, if you cant flat foot a bike, doesnt mean its too big, just means you have short legs and need to take a little more care while stopping, theres plenty of women out there who can't flat foot a bike (but can ride like the wind) and the GP starting grids are FILLED with guys who cant flat foot a bike....


third - the MSF course is crap. its just crap. disagree with me all you want, but it actually is BAD for new riders IMO...

I'm sorry you had a bad MSF experience. There was 50 years of riding experience between my two MSF instructors, and I got into conversations with them about high side dynamics and the exact difference 15 mph can make.

An SV650 is not for everyone. I don't give a fuck what you say, when I took the MSF there were people who supossedly have been "riding harleys for years" who couldn't handle an eliminator 125 any better than I , a person who has never ridden a motorcycle before the class and has driven a standard for maybe 2 hours total ( yeah, I killed it alot ). I ended up with a higher score than all the people in the class, namely becasue I wasn't chickenshit with the brakes and the "experienced riders" were scared of the front brake. Not everyone is cut out to handle sport bikes , even the "pussy" SV650. Your attitude is what gets people hurt when they buy the newest literibke from japan and highside it within 2 weeks. You might be able to ride fuckin' circles around me and can do it safely, but you are not the majority. There are quite a few people who cannot drive for shit, much less ride for shit naturally. And for those people, they need to start on the most forgiving bikes. In fact, I think alot of people need to stay away from riding alltogether. Please argue with me on that point.

thats why i dont ride bikes. american made cars are the way to go ladies and gents, im talkin pre-75, when they were made of steel.

Wake up. Take responsibility for your driving, and don't rely on the car to protect you in case of an accident. That is what you are implying there. I think all drivers should have to take the MSF course, just so they'll start to think more of the consequences of fucking up. You can act all big and badass when you are in a 4500 lb car or truck ( Believe me, I've owned one ) but when you are on a bike you rethink everything.


AND

for your information, bikes still were faster than musclecars, even back in the 70s. Back in 73, Z1 did the quarter in 12.28. Where was the musclecars? Oh, yeah, still heading for the finish line. Even the hemi cudas with "450 HP". And they had 110 horsepower, with a quarter of the availible traction. WOOOW.

[ziadel]

Originally posted by BooRadley
An SV650 is not for everyone. I don't give a fuck what you say, when I took the MSF there were people who supossedly have been "riding harleys for years" who couldn't handle an eliminator 125 any better than I , a person who has never ridden a motorcycle before the class and has driven a standard for maybe 2 hours total ( yeah, I killed it alot ). I ended up with a higher score than all the people in the class, namely becasue I wasn't chickenshit with the brakes and the "experienced riders" were scared of the front brake. Not everyone is cut out to handle sport bikes , even the "pussy" SV650. Your attitude is what gets people hurt when they buy the newest literibke from japan and highside it within 2 weeks. You might be able to ride fuckin' circles around me and can do it safely, but you are not the majority. There are quite a few people who cannot drive for shit, much less ride for shit naturally. And for those people, they need to start on the most forgiving bikes. In fact, I think alot of people need to stay away from riding alltogether. Please argue with me on that point.

First off, bikes are bikes. K? RC211V or Ninja 250, 65mph = 65mph, and although I have yet to ride the RC211, I am willing to bet that it wont go any faster than you tell it to go, JUST like the Ninja 250.
I am not even gonna get into exactly why the Harley peeps couldnt handle the dirtbikes they had for you guys, if you dont know that one already you need help.

Congrats on your high MSF score, but, if an Imbiscle gave me a math quiz, even if I aced it, I really wouldn't think I had anything to be proud of :shrug

and yeah, if you can ride a bike, you CAN handle a sportbike. Those bikes are extremely sharp instruments, properly set up that are more stable than ANY other road-going bike and they exhibit next to NO unfavorable characteristics that the rider must compensate for. They are neutral. Incredibly so.

My attitude is not what gets newbies into trouble, my attitude doesn't tell them to go out and get litre bikes, I go feel prety shitty when people tell them that a 600 is too big to learn on, because its really not.
As for them highsiding, well, mebbe if the MSF bufoons would tell them not to chop the throttle when the rear-wheel rear loses traction, mebbe it wouldnt happen so much? Oh, but you did'nt know thats how to not high-side did ya? Cause they did'nt tell you and you assumed they told you everything you needed to know. Welcome to the trap.


and I agree, some people shouldnt drive, and therefore shouldnt ride, but I know enough shitty drivers who are incredible riders to make me realize there are absolutely no hard and fast rules when it comes to who can handle what.

and yeah, I can ride circles around you, and I am glad for it, I wouldnt wanna be stuck behind ya waiting for you to target fixate on something and run right into it and possibly take me out with you.

sorry man, but I am not gonna back down on this, WAY too much misinfo being tossed around out there these days...


I'll state it once again, if your an idiot you'll die on a 600, same as you will on a 250, it will just be quicker on the 600.

[BooRadley]

Once again, I'm sorry your MSF instructor did not cover many of these things, even though high& low siding, target fixation, counterweighting, countersteering, and every other major motorcycle-dynamic term was discussed in my class...

Let me ask you a question : Was the MSF the first time you've ever been on a bike ? If not, then I don't blame you for calling it a waste of time. Perhaps your time would be better spent at an advanced ridercourse or a dedicated racing school.
But the class is setup for people who haven't ridden before, and don't know even how to turn on a bike.

I don't think the MSF misinforms people about what can and cannot be done on a motorcycle , they just leave alot out. For example ,

Q: "What do I do if I go into a corner too fast?'

MSF A: "Don't do that."

Q: "well what if I do?"

MSF A: "Just don't."

That is withholding information on the side of safety.
Newb (lets say a person who has ridden for maybe a week and a half and just got out of MSF ) goes into corner too hot. He/she can :
A) Hit the brakes ( Which is the intutitive thing to do ) and risk a highside ( people don't like to be told they can't break)
B) Straighten up, kill the line, hit the brakes, and then go back into the turn ( which would work, but most people don't trust leaning enough when they first start to do this )

This is not want people want to hear. Riding a bike into the ground if you lock your rear brake while leaned over is not acceptable to some people, and it will scare the shit out of them. The MSF is encouraging motorcycling, so they just tell people to slow the fuck down so they don't have to risk a highside. As said before , the bikes do what they are told, so you should be able to slow down adequate amounts before getting to the curve ( provided you have a 10 second path planned out and aren't trying to get your knee down, which is silly on public roads )

[Moonduck]

Boo, Ziadel will not back down on MSF simply because it does not teach everything it possibly can and, I assume, that he'd rather see everyone start out on a bike with zero training whatsoever. You'll not convince him otherwise either, as the reality of the non-experienced rider means nothing, nor does the reality of people to physically small to handle a tall/heavy bike mean anything to him.

Nod and smile, Boo, you won't get anywhere valid.

[strife]

Originally posted by ziadel
First off, bikes are bikes. K? RC211V or Ninja 250, 65mph = 65mph, and although I have yet to ride the RC211, I am willing to bet that it wont go any faster than you tell it to go, JUST like the Ninja 250.
I am not even gonna get into exactly why the Harley peeps couldnt handle the dirtbikes they had for you guys, if you dont know that one already you need help.

Congrats on your high MSF score, but, if an Imbiscle gave me a math quiz, even if I aced it, I really wouldn't think I had anything to be proud of :shrug

and yeah, if you can ride a bike, you CAN handle a sportbike. Those bikes are extremely sharp instruments, properly set up that are more stable than ANY other road-going bike and they exhibit next to NO unfavorable characteristics that the rider must compensate for. They are neutral. Incredibly so.

My attitude is not what gets newbies into trouble, my attitude doesn't tell them to go out and get litre bikes, I go feel prety shitty when people tell them that a 600 is too big to learn on, because its really not.
As for them highsiding, well, mebbe if the MSF bufoons would tell them not to chop the throttle when the rear-wheel rear loses traction, mebbe it wouldnt happen so much? Oh, but you did'nt know thats how to not high-side did ya? Cause they did'nt tell you and you assumed they told you everything you needed to know. Welcome to the trap.


and I agree, some people shouldnt drive, and therefore shouldnt ride, but I know enough shitty drivers who are incredible riders to make me realize there are absolutely no hard and fast rules when it comes to who can handle what.

and yeah, I can ride circles around you, and I am glad for it, I wouldnt wanna be stuck behind ya waiting for you to target fixate on something and run right into it and possibly take me out with you.

sorry man, but I am not gonna back down on this, WAY too much misinfo being tossed around out there these days...


I'll state it once again, if your an idiot you'll die on a 600, same as you will on a 250, it will just be quicker on the 600.

Originally posted by ziadel
First off, bikes are bikes. K? RC211V or Ninja 250, 65mph = 65mph, and although I have yet to ride the RC211, I am willing to bet that it wont go any faster than you tell it to go, JUST like the Ninja 250.
I am not even gonna get into exactly why the Harley peeps couldnt handle the dirtbikes they had for you guys, if you dont know that one already you need help.

Congrats on your high MSF score, but, if an Imbiscle gave me a math quiz, even if I aced it, I really wouldn't think I had anything to be proud of :shrug

and yeah, if you can ride a bike, you CAN handle a sportbike. Those bikes are extremely sharp instruments, properly set up that are more stable than ANY other road-going bike and they exhibit next to NO unfavorable characteristics that the rider must compensate for. They are neutral. Incredibly so.

My attitude is not what gets newbies into trouble, my attitude doesn't tell them to go out and get litre bikes, I go feel prety shitty when people tell them that a 600 is too big to learn on, because its really not.
As for them highsiding, well, mebbe if the MSF bufoons would tell them not to chop the throttle when the rear-wheel rear loses traction, mebbe it wouldnt happen so much? Oh, but you did'nt know thats how to not high-side did ya? Cause they did'nt tell you and you assumed they told you everything you needed to know. Welcome to the trap.


and I agree, some people shouldnt drive, and therefore shouldnt ride, but I know enough shitty drivers who are incredible riders to make me realize there are absolutely no hard and fast rules when it comes to who can handle what.

and yeah, I can ride circles around you, and I am glad for it, I wouldnt wanna be stuck behind ya waiting for you to target fixate on something and run right into it and possibly take me out with you.

sorry man, but I am not gonna back down on this, WAY too much misinfo being tossed around out there these days...


I'll state it once again, if your an idiot you'll die on a 600, same as you will on a 250, it will just be quicker on the 600.

Since you knock the MSF course so much, what do you reccommend one take instead of an MSF course? And Why?

[ziadel]

Originally posted by strife
Since you knock the MSF course so much, what do you reccommend one take instead of an MSF course? And Why?

go find out where the sportbikers hang out in your area...
find someone with a lotta miles and no chicken strips on their tires... and just ask them to teach you how to ride. Most would consider it a matter of honor and would never turn away a serious newbie who wanted to learn how to ride responsibly.
Hell, even go ask a freakin stunter, they'll tell you how to ride, and I'll tell you this, when a stunter ain't stunting, hes the safest rider on the road.... but no one here will prolly believe that, oh well :shrug

[Moonduck]

Why would no one believe that a stunter is the safest driver on the road when not stunting? You have to be really freakin' good to stunt. The problem here is that there are people out there that have no experience on bikes, don't know what they're doing at all, and don't even know how to turn the bloody thing on.

Here in VA, you can't even transfer title on a bike until you have an "M" designation on your license. This means that you ride illegally or you borrow someone else's ride. Very few people I know will let a competent rider that they don't know ride their bike. How many will let an untrained rider do so?

The MSF has bikes at the school. You can legally ride 'em on the property no problem. I can understand your comment that someone would be best served by finding experienced riders and seeking instruction, but wouldn't it be better to do so once you can legally ride?

You have some valid points, Z, but I think you have too much of an axe to grind over the MSF and don't want to see things from the standpoint of the normal guy that just wants to ride a bike legally.