Lancer Evolution...
 

Took one of these for a test drive yesterday. Wow.

Nice detailing, the car doesn't look riced out (except possibly the wing on the back, but at least it is functional).

The get up and go is more than satisfactory, and the car handles like it is on rails.

All I can say is that I am impressed that Mitsubishi of all people is making a car of this calibur. If one was into auto-X this would certainly be a car to look at...

It is widely known in import enthusiast circles that Mitsubishi makes the poorest quality vehicle of any significant import manufacturer....

I would MUCH rather drive a Subaru WRX STi than an Evo. Why? Well...the Evo is a Lancer (sort of) converted to all-wheel-drive. Subie's trademark is all-wheel-drive.

Both impressive cars, but either way, make mine a Camaro ;)

I test drove a Lancer Evolution and I would have bought one except:

a) The dealers really like them
b) The WRX has a much nicer interior
c) The WRX is easier to drive around town

I bought a WRX and thought about an STi except I don't buy first model years of any car.

While both these cars a little ricey for me, and being not German, the Evo is NOT a Lancer converted to AWD. Don't let the "Lancer" in the name fool you. It's like comparing Armani suits with Wal-Mart. The car has been in Japan and Europe for many years. It's just now come to the US. It's in high demand, that's why the dealers are so "proud" of them.

The STi is not in it's first year. It's in it's first year in America, the car has been around for a long time as well. Why do you think these things were so anticipated over here? However, the only thing against the STi is that it came to America with a 2.5L engine, the Japanese car is a 2.0. 300 HP was a big number for Subaru when they brought this car over. The Evo however, is very close to the Japanese version of the car, from what I've read.

I love the STi myself, while not a big japanese car fan, that is one awsome looking machine. The Evo is ugly as sin.

I'll take my M3 over either of them though.

"It is widely known in import enthusiast cirsles that Mitsubishi makes the poorest quality vehicle of any significant import manufacturer...."


Let it also be known I have a 2002 Lancer OZ Ralley Ed.
It had 46mi when I bought it. It has 16,500mi on it. I will have it a year on, or about, this September 20th.

I have not had:

One glitch.

One defect.

One problem.

One Complaint.

One hiccup.

One niggle.

Or, put simply,

Absolutly nothing has gone wrong with my car.

I am one picky dude, so if something had, that sucker would have been back to the dealer faster than you can say "Evo."

mmm evo.... mmm wrx sti...

"Top Gear" on the BBC tested the U.K. versions of these cars against each other... and the Subaru won, if only by a small margin.

Personally, I like the STi's looks better:

http://www.carnuttv.com/images/roadt...on_front_1.jpg
as opposed to
http://impreza.subaru.com/microsites...ti_full/06.jpg

However, correct me if I'm wrong, but the Subaru costs more...

Yeah, I know the STi has been around in Japan for a long time w/ a 2.0L engine. This is the first year Subaru has turbocharged a 2.5L engine and they have an all new transmission attached to it as well. In my mind a new engine and new transmission make it close enough to a new model to have new model problems.

The WRX is much nicer......Do they both have AWD all the time?

I know the WRX does.

The Evo won Car and Driver's comparison against the subie.

It also just beat out subarus in a tuner test in the same magazine.

I like the Lancer Evolution.

Not that people would use these cars for what they were designed for any more than SUV owners, but a friend who rallys tells me the extra locking diffs in the STi make it slightly faster on a rally course.

It's a personal preference for a street car.

in my opinion, the evo VI was the best looking. it was fatter, meaner looking. the evo VII and VIII had more rounded styling.
I'd still rather have one over a scooby doo any day

Wow, if you were one 'picky dude' I'd think you'd do better research. Mitsubishi does not have a good history in the US of creating reliable high-power turbo cars (does the word "Crankwalk" mean anything to anybody?). Just because your grocery getter eco-box (rally edition?? by which you mean, you've taken it on a rally course competitively...right?) is fine doesn't mean the EvoVIII is going to be long-term reliable. You also haven't had yours for long enough to comment on long term reliability.

But anecdotal evidence aside, lets go see what the Survey Says...

http://www.jdpa.com/presspass/pr/images/2003050b.gif

My flavor of choice, Toyota, is right up there with Porsche...Mitsubishi is more down with Hyundai, Suzuki, and the ever-reliable Daewoo. Even Subaru ranks higher than the industry average...and they've got a lot more experience with AWD cars. With Subaru, AWD is a theme throughout all of their product lines. With Mitsu...it's a novelty selling point.

Oh, and comparing the Evo8 to the EvoVII...ridiculous. The VII would eat it alive...the 8 is so stripped down its ridiculous. They took a 7 and gutted it to bring the price down to something the American market could bear.

I do hope, however, that the WRX, the Evo, and the Neon SRT4 start a turbo war...I am eagerly awaiting the next Toyota turbo car. Fifth Gen supra, anybody? Maybe a new MR2 that actually has some balls? Who can tell.....

The previous gen Evo cars, not sold in America, are completely different cars. The American Evo8 IS a hopped up Lancer (Rally Edition? Are you serious?) economy car, CONVERTED to AWD.

And as far as quality is concerned, I was talking about Mitsu's ability to build a performance engine that can be modified without blowing up. They have been building economy cars forever...they should stick to that.

And cmon guys...look at the two pics above. The Subaru is a genuine car with genuine good looks....the wings is ugly, but that can be easily removed :D The Evo looks like some 16 yr old RICER got a hold of it and turned it into the Bat-Mobile. But I guess thats why the Evo appeals to a lot of people...the RICER look is the "in" thing to have right now....

Now I remember why I stopped posting in the motors forum.

It's all a dick measuring contest, everybody HAS to prove something, and

it's tired out.


If you know so damn much about cars, you should know that "Ralley Edition" is just a trim level.

I never said it was more, nor did I imply something about me racing the car on a ralley course. You said that. I'm sure you said it just to be a jerk.

If its "just" a trim level, why include it? If its just a dick measuring contest, then by including that, you're trying to stick out your hips and make your dick look just a little bit bigger. I dont say that I have a 1997 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 LT1 V8 with a 6-speed, 3.42 rear end, CAI, QTEC electric exshaust cutout, performance sway bars, trailing arms, adjustable panhard bar, Bilstein shocks/struts/Eiback springs, 17x9.5 Y2K Vette wheels wraped in blah blah blah blah.

I simply say I drive a Camaro, because I dont have anything to prove. :D :D

I realize its just wheels, a shift knob and a mild ground FX package, (am I missing anything?) and it does make the Lancer look better.

I'm not trying to be a dick OR to prove anything. I post what I post because I dont think that a lot of people here know very much about cars and I'm just trying to help...cause cars is all I do lol.

I also think that a lot of the general public very heavily buys into hype. Namely, Evo hype. I guess thats just my opinion tho....

Apologies.

Well just about anything would be better than the old subie transmission. The rally guys can change on in about 20 minutes, that's how well they stand up to high power and aggressive driving.

Re: Lancer Evolution...
 

Or Rally. Lot of panting in those channels

I'd be happier with a '50 Merc.

I'm just gonna post this, and watch the hilarity ensue... For the record, I'd take an EVO any day. :D

http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/fe...cc_evogermany/

Who's won more rallys, Mitsubishi or Subaru?

Don't tell me Mitsubishi can't make a performance engine. I enjoy most of the aspects of the Evo VIII, aside from the ugly wing and euro tail-lights. The STi wing makes baby jesus cry. :P

I'd honestly rather have an Evo for the simple fact that my friend dumped $6k in mods in his WRX and got ~100 HP out of it and guess what he did? Sold every part and bought a 69 Nova, dropped a 454 in it and never looked back. If you didn't notice, he's a drag racing fan. But yes, the WRX was NOT made for the strip, hence the great horsepower-stealing AWD.

Just my opinions really. Evo > Subaru :p

I'm a big rally fan, and I love both the Evo and the STi. If I had the money to spend on a new car, though, I'd probably buy the STi, just because I'm not a big fan of the way that the Evo VIIIs look. On the other hand, the gold wheels on the STi would have to go.

hey etla, no race car uses a stock transmission. According to Sport Compact Car, the tranny is the most expensive piece on the car, because a typical race is about 2,000 shifts. They use sequential, custom cut dog gears like every wrc rally car. They swap out the transmission quickly because that is what they are trained to do. Look at Audi in Lemans racing. The entire back end of car is held in place with a few bolts. If they want to replace the brake rotors, they drop out everything from the transmission back, because it is all attached. The suspension is bolted to the tranny case, and the tranny is the main support for the rear of the car.

Our version of the Lancer is not an "converted" version of the Lancer FWD car that they started selling here a few years ago. It shares a few parts with the Lancer FWD, and it's only a few options away from the Japanese Evo VIII, which also shares parts with it's Japanese FWD counterpart. Our car is missing a variable center differential, and Mitsu's active yaw control. These changes were required to get the Evo down to Mitsu of America's decided 30k price point.

Also, I think the entire automotive industry needs to get it's damn average up.

when it comes down to it the STI does have a couple more goodies and a few more horsepower. The addition of a user controllable center diff and water injection makes it a favorite of mine, and it doesnt look as cobbled together as the new Evo. Once you yank the big ass wing and the rims off the STI you have a hell of an Auto-X car right off the bat. The Evo seems to appeal to a younger market that probally will never put the car on the track. Apples and oranges really.

I find it kind of weird that you mention the water injection and then mention autoxing the STi. I believe you can get penalized quite severely for dripping any fluids onto the race track, as it can adversely affect the traction of cars following you. Also, I believe that these cars appeal to the same group of people. Anyone who has seen WRC and knows the cars, or anyone who is a fan of Gran Turismo and has fallen in love with either/both car would probably be apt to get either one. They have roughly the same price, and apart from the slightly nicer interior of the STi, they perform nearly identically. Most independent magazines that have reviewed both cars (head to head, as if they appeal to the same market) has picked the Evo narrowly over the STi purely due to the fact that it is more fun to drive. I would definitely enjoy adding either car to my stable.

Ive used water injection in the past and never once had a leak. Then again I am the biggest anal retentive bastard when it comes to things like that.

But in an Auto-X the only place id use the water is at launch really. No where else are you spinning the turbo too high.

What do you mean water injection? If by water injection you mean spraying water on the intercooler then both the STI and EVO have that.

Comparing the EVO to the STI is not apples and oranges. They are competing cars not only on the street, but also in the WRC. In most of the magazine tests where they went through some twisties the EVO has won even with its 271 HP compared to the STI's 300. Why? Because even with all the fancy gadgets (including more hp and torque) in the STI it still can't compete with the EVOs handling and steering.

Also the only picture that shows up for me in this thread is the picture of an EVO. From the wording in that post it sounds like the poster is thinking it's a STI.

There is a big difference between water injection and spraying water on the intercooler. Water injection actually sprays water into the hot air stream. The high latent heat of water soaks up a good deal of the heat and thus a cooler intake charge. Spraying water on the intercooler gives you mixed results, only really helps when the intercooler is in a tight engine compartment, but no where as much as water injection.

Oh and someone remind me why Mitsu dropped out of WRC for a while? Oh yeah massive reliability problems.

The STI does not have water injection. It uses the same method as the EVO, spraying a mist of water on the intercooler. Please let me know where you find contradicting information.

I got that from Automotive Engineering, if Im wrong please correct me. I cant remember what issue though.

On a similiar note though the new ford lightning will supposedly route an air conditioning duct through the intercooler. Im pretty sure this has been done in the past but it is a pretty neat setup.

The EVO is a very nice car. As is the STI. But if you dont have the money for the WRX STI version. Then the EVO will match up just fine.

I like it. But i enjoy my Matrix.

Also for those not familar with Subaru. STI is like ,TRD for toyota.

I forget the full name for STI.

STI is basically enhanced modifications to the WRX car.

Subaru Technica International

I am torn, the EVO is a better handler and has more comfortable seats, but the racer in me LOVES the STi ... Hell I'd buy an Sti

I just cannot imagine that you could go wrong with either car. They seem to test out in the magazines very similarly. I have a wrx wagon, but I guess the bigger thing would be to find one that does not have too high a markup from the dealer.

cool pocon1. I just test drove a WRX wagon yesterday. They're so fast, I wonder why anyone needs an STi with 300hp. I guess everything's an upgrade from my Geo Prizm though...

No 4wd drive or FWD car needs a wing. Period. You just are not going to get the speeds necessary to justify the extra weight for traction tradeoff. Period. Considering wings hurt FWD traction ( pulls down on the rear end) and 4WD have gobs of traction anyway, it's just factory rice.

I have heard many bad things about the Lancer Evo. Personally, I'd rather go with the Subaru WRX, or WRX STi for around the same price range.

subaru > mitsubishi
evo > WRX
for the money 1st gen dsm>evo

You know, I've got to agree with you totally on that one, except swap STi for WRX. A used WRX might be more cost effective than an Evo, and definitely easier to find than a quality 1st gen dsm.

If a Geo Metro was used in The Fast and the Furious everyone would be sweatin it.

A little off topic...

I think it's pretty cool that people here can have an intellegent conversation without turning it into a "my Mustang can smoke your ricer any day" thread. This shows the intellect of the members here and what makes TFP a very special place.

Thank you

I don't know man. I just saw 2F2F and it had that convertible eclipse, and I'm not drooling over it. I wouldn't kick it out of bed though.

A guy at work has one of them and they look sharp.

ehhhh ... :hmm:

I'll line up against any of them..... Straight line or on the twisties. :cool:

It makes baby jesus cry when people act as authorities on subjects on which they have NO knowledge on. Step away from the import thread and get back to your displacement fixation.

What is different from the OZ edition and the Evo?
Motor, tranny, driveline, suspension, ECU... need I continue. It shares maybe 3 parts with the OZ edition. Wanna see the CAPS on it?

The Evo is based on the infamous 4g63. Infamous for 2 reasons: 1, The DSM 2g crankwalk, in which, due to improperly designed oil squirters the crank, over time, was able to move back and fourth... often just enough to take out the Crank angle sensor rendering the car immobile (Yes I was a victim). 2, for being one of the most resilient inline 4 motors ever (1g). Withstanding 450 hp in OEM form not many motors are half as bullet proof.

And sorry mr Tj, your stang wouldnt stand a chance in the twisties with either of these cars. You might even struggle to keep up with their mid 13 second 1/4 mile times if you are in stock 14.0 second 01' cobra trim.

Mustangs turning.... that gave me a chuckle.

If its just factory rice, why do WRC cars have the wings? They've gotta be good for something...

WRC cars have wings to produce downforce, because they frequently travel at 100+ KPH through very twisty roads.

Your average streetcar, on the other hand, won't need it. Also, at least with the WRX, the factory wing and the wing used in the WRC cars is different.

Firstly congratulations on coming off like a complete elitist asshole.

Secondly, thank you for assuming you know something about someone that you have NO knowledge about (wait...thats what you were accusing ME of? I'm confused.....) And how the fuck do you know whether or not I am an ASE certified mechanic and have worked on hundreds of Mitsubishis??? You fucking dont.

Thirdly, I said NOTHING about displacement....you brought it up. I might say that you have displacement envy, but displacement doesnt matter at all for imports right?:rolleyes: Or maybe it just doesnt matter to you. I dunno...I'm confused again....

Hmm. OK. So lets just pretend for a minute that you are right and the Evo and the econo-box Lancer are NOT the same car. Does tthis also mean that the 03 Mustang GT and the 03 Mustang Cobra are NOT the same car? The Camaro V6 and Z28 are NOT the same car? The Eclipse GS and GSX are NOT the same car?

Give me a fucking break. The latter are all just bigger badder versions or THE SAME CAR. But I guess the Evo is special because you said so....

I am sorry but this little speech of yours proves nothing, except the fact that you have the uncanny ability to look information up on the internet. Amazing.

You directly contradicted yourself as well. #1 is EXACTLY why the 4g62 is NOT "one of the most resilient inline 4 motors ever." Nice try tho.....

You ever been AutoCrossing?? (read: "twisties" :rolleyes: ) Guess who owns.....Miatas and fucking F-bodies. And guess who owned EVERYONE at the last meet.... a fucking Mustang Cobra. Notice that all these cars are RWD. And why? because a well-driven RWD car is actually BETTER in the "twisties" than AWD. AWD is just easier for a novice to be decent. Pretty much the only time the AWD cars own on an AuotX course is WHEN ITS FUCKING SNOWING.....

But I must be full of shit because no car can beat the EVO!!!

I wont even mention the fact that you are obviously defending this car because you are a Mitsu lover (why I dont know....).....oh wait...I just mentioned it. Oops.

And I also love how people are so quick to jump on the EVO bandwagon....people are sheep.

If you were at an autocross where a Mustang beat an Evo, either the Mustang driver had vastly superior skill, the car was heavily modified, or you were smoking some nitrus.

so whats your point.

yes that is true...either the car was better or the driver was better.............weird.

It looks like this thread has been thrown off course, and that certain people need to take a deep breath before clicking "Submit Reply." Keep it somewhat on topic, keep it civil.

Both the Lightning and Cobra R will have this feature, which designers claim will give the car a 30-second boost of around 50HP.

1) Youre not a certified mechanic or you would know that what I said was true: That the motor, the suspension, and the driveline and even the interior are completely different. Just as in a GS to a GST the engine, tranny, suspension is completely different. Im looking at the CAPS (mitsubishi parts look up program) for the Evo now. That washer that you use on the turbo to manifold bolt... you can use that on the stereo harness on the lancer.... so yeah I guess youre right, exactly the same.

2) Youre not a certified mechanic or you would know that it is a 4g63 motor, not a 4g62... and that the problem I mention plagued the USDM spec 4g63 for exactly 4 years. That motor was made for 11 and only a fraction of them were mfgd in Normal Illinois.

3) You dont know anything about autocross. You honeslty just said a stock fbody would beat a stock evo in an autocross event. I dont think i even need to rebuttle that.

1.) You havent proven a goddm thing

2.) You still havent proven a goddam thing, except that I accidentally hit a 2 and not a 3....

3.) Where once did i say "stock"? The car is only as good as the driver.

Buuut I'm gonna go ahead and take MrSelfDestruct's advice and end this by saying....

You are right in all things you have said, are saying, and will say.

Argument over. You win. :rolleyes:

I love the naming of some of the current UK models.

We have the cleverly named Evo VIII FQ 300.

And now there is the FQ 330.

The numbers denote the power.

The FQ stands for farkin' quick. Which I won't argue with.

There is something almost agricultural in the sound of these things when they fly past you .... I'd love to have one. Couldn't afford the fuel bills though.

It is true that fluids can not be dripped onto the track. Subaru knows this and has made the water cooled intercooler sealed so that fluids are not dripped.

The WRX is not the STI first of all. Second of all they all have AWD, so saying that the wrx/sti is not ready for the strip means the evo is not ready also.

What?!? Do you know that Mitsu has a lower IQS 'Initial Quality Study' (lower is better) than Subbie? Do you know how many detonation problems are being reported on the Sti? Do you even know who had an AWD Lancer in the WRC first?

Or are you one of the public who still thinks that the Evo was derived from the US Lancer?

Bring your STi. I'll run it against my Evo any day of the week. :D

Another one, completely clueless. :)

The Evo 8 is still an Evolution. It's not a suped up Lancer. It is NOT converted from 2WD to AWD. Period. End of story.

Reliabilty on performance enhancements to Mitsu's engine? Have you ever heard of the 4g63? Probably one of the most reliable, upgradable engines EVER. Know what a DSM is? Know what kind of power you can get from them? SAME ENGINE!

About the looks...well, at least our 16yr old kid knew how to put a functional hood on, and a wing that doesn't flap in the wind past 50mph.

The evolution is awesome i really wanna get one. According to car and driver it can be compete with cars that cost like 15k more. Also it handles well and it looks nice , and if u want to could upgrade it even more!!

First of all let me state that I own a Mitsubishi Lancer(yes the eco-box) and my best friend owns a Mitsubishi Evolution.

American Lancer is based off the mirage and cedia platform. 4g94 2.0 SOHC engine, based off the 1.5 and 1.8 4g93 engine.

American Evolution is based off the 4g63 2.0 DOHC engine. This engine has gone through many changes in the the past 12+ years it has been out. The version in the Evolution has been tested to push over 550 hp with stock internals and no known engine problems. The only problem with this car (AND YES IT IS A HUGE PROBLEM) is the clutch. Mitsubishi really did a fucked up job and lined up the tranmission in a way that puts extra stress on the clutch. My best friend burned his clutch at 7500 miles, another one of my friends burned his out at 1500. Then Mitsubishi tears down the tranny looks at the blue and purple clutch and tells the customer it is due to them racing it, makes them pay for the new one(that costs over 2000 for the clutch and install), then waits until they do it again.

The only thing the two cars share is the sound system, basic body parts(the evo has aluminum fenders and hood for weight), and the interior is the same.

My friend's best times on a few mods (intake, exhaust, SAFC, boost controller, Fuel pump, 6-puck racing clutch) have been in the mid to high 11's.

I have not driven a STI, but I have heard MANY good things about them. The only problem that I have heard about is detonation problems. The transmission seems to be bulletproof though.

Either way both cars are great choices. They are both in the same price range, so why not take both for a spin. Just remember the upkeep of the car is what is going to kill you. Tires go out every year, clutches are a pain in the pocket, and Mitsubishi makes you do you oil changes with them or they void you warranty.

Road and Track just finished their 1 year long-term review on the Lancer Evolution. They drove it 30,000 miles and had no clutch problems. They drove it hard too. The thing is that they know how to drive hard correctly. I'm not gunna say that your friends drive crappy, but killing a clutch that quickly is their fault. Mitsubishi said he raced it, and hey look, he's been drag-racing it, you even give his times. Not good for clutch. Don't blame the car for your friends being dumb with their clutch.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=1296

Please, correct me if I am wrong, I don't race, my high speeds are usually long highway stretches, but i've got a FWD car, i've noticed that the back end sometimes feels a bit loose when cornering, would an increased downforce in the rear not help alleviate this situation?

Holy back-from-the-dead Batman!


If youre cornering at 150 mph, yes.

I think both cars are great cars for $30k.
I read somewhere that the Evo runs a faster 1/4 than the STI. Anyone know if it's true?

They run it really close. The STi is quite a bit more powerful, but it has an extra gearshift to make down the quarter mile, so they're within a tenth of eachother.

I like the Evo VIII but as of now I would rather have the STi. That Car and Driver comparison was so close that either could have won it. But the STi won the online contest on Road and Track for best new car in 2004 according to the voting public.

HOWEVER, I would love to get my hands on a genuine Nissan Skyline GT-R. I heard through the grapevine that Nissan is thinking of bringing it to N.A. in the next couple of years...maybe.

I saw it in Japan a few months ago and it made my mouth water...it is awesome. I am not allowed to post attachments yet but maybe somebody will do it for me. Check it out.

EliteGibson, the STi can handle much more powa than the Evo can on stock internals because the engine is beefier and built a little better. while the Evo is running 20psi stock to barely make 230-250 hp at the wheels, the Sti only runs around 14-16 psi stock to make around 260-275 hp with room for much more.

AFAIK the first few series of the lancer evolution were sort of based upon the lancer body, similar shape with upgraded components and the wing etc added. However, with the new series there are some body changes, different shapes, smaller size I think, etc.
Comparison is easy when you see Lancers with evo bodykits compared to the real thing.

I'm not sure I buy that. The 4g63 is about as beefy as 4-cylinders come. You can raise the boost to supreme levels with the stock internals and get to around 500 (just not with pump gas). The STi's advantage is it's not boosted to high heaven from the factory and can take more before detonation becomes a problem.

WRC uses a dogbox or sequential shift yes. SCCA and CARS (US and Canada) don't allow them in most classes; only open in the US IIRC. Group N for sure doesn't and that was where Subaru USA was paying ProDrive to change transmissions during service.

A lot national level and lower sanctioning bodies restrict transmissions cases or gear sets or both to try and keep costs down. A good percentage of performance rally around the world is equivelent to Show room stock + Cage, Belts, Seats, and Cell.

If I had to choose I'd go with the Evo if only 'cause it's cooler to say and WRXs are everywhere up here. 'Course if I was dropping C$35G+ on a car I'd be sitting in a Hemi 300C AWD

Had an Evo come into the shop for some work after a collision. red one. Had the single WORST paint I have ever seen from facotry. It had so much orange peel that it looked like the whole car had been coated in rockguard.

As to the clutch comment earlier, the guys at our Mitsi dealership tell me that they put a lot of clutches in these things. Average is 10k miles. It is so bad that rumour has it they're considering loosening the warranty restrictions on em. It would follow in line with Nissan admitting that the front ends on 350z's are horribly designed and eat tires constantly.

Personally, I wouldn't touch a new Mitsi of any type. They're unreliable, have shite paint, and uninspired design. I would happily jump on a 1st gen DSM AWD turbo as they're great fun to tune. The 4g63 is one of the all-time great mills, and is easily the SBC of the import world.

GET A SRT-4!!!

It was included because that is the title of the car the Lancer OZ Rally Edition, where as you were just mentioning parts on your car.


So if the STI was RWD then the wing would be justified? Give your head a shake, I suppose that the FIA WRC cars have no need for the wings they use, or are they in a separate catageory? You seemed so sure of yourself, yet you were so wrong

its unbelievable how a thread this old can be brought back from the dead, and how people keep making asenine comments about things already debated so long ago.

cmon jay...... find another car to defend/degrade. This ones been beaten to death.

Doesn't Mitsubishi claim that wing is functional like at 92 MPH?

BTW I really laughed when someone said the Evo is just a bigger and better OZ Edition Lancer, just after calling someone an elitist asshole. Too funny.

EDIT: This in response to Kurant, who edited his post above to make himself look like less of a dick.....

riiiiiiiiight

As should you. But thanks I'll keep that in mind, oh mighty one.


Yeah. It is. Go back and read the rest of the thread, realize that we have been over this topic quite extensively, and then realize that you are completely awesome for reviving a dead thread just so you can attempt to assert your knowledge over someone else's, on an internet forum. YAY!

Get off it dude.

:lol:

You need a serious reality check, bro.

It's not about being less of a dick. I didn't want to litter message boards with personal attacks and bullshit, which is what you praise on apparently.

To quote myself.....

Flame away. I'm done with you.

well this went to hell, can we still debate these cars or is it going to be a flame war because personally I love both these cars, they both have their advantages and disadvantages it's all a matter of opinion, I wasn't defending or degrading either car I respect both equally for what they are and what they do although I do hold a biased towards the Subaru, let's hope this can remain civil

I am sure of myself.

FIA WRC cars have wings because they have:
A) No traction to begin with (snow, mud, gravel, and sand come to mind....
B) Have to drive on said surfaces at speeds that are much greater than legal road speeds in a majority of companies
C) Need traction to drive at the aforementioned speeds.

So, how do you get traction when you already have the best tires and the best 4wd system in place? Glue the car to the ground with aerodynamics, hence front & rear wings.

How does this translate to your on-road experience? It doesn't.
This is comparing apples and oranges.

The race prepared rally cars have a few elements in common with the street cars, but are radically different in purpose and construction.

Purpose :
Rally car : Go on low-traction surfaces at retardedly fast speeds.
Street car : Drive to Dairy queen. Look good for the ladies.

Construction :

Rally car: Bulletproof transmission, shop-fabricated chassis with complete roll protection & lexan windows, modified engine, top of the line suspension and driveline components. Racing seats. No stereo. Looks like a rally car. Tires that cost thousands of dollars apiece.

Street car: Built in a factory. Has a stereo. Used for carrying people. Racing-styled seats. Looks like a rally car. Subject to numerous DOT and other governing body regulations. Has airbags. Weighs hundreds of pounds more than the rally car.

If you think the Subaru WRX you drive is the same as a WRC, you are wrong. Here's yet another hint : WRCs cost probably cost $75k+ to build . You won't get one for cheap because the factory is being nice.

Lets take the Subaru WRX.

For the street, you have 4wd drive and decent sport tires. You shouldn't ever have a traction problem with 99% of legal driving. You aren't going to be cornering at 10/10ths of the cars ability, where the spoiler really makes the difference ( because it only makes a difference at higher speeds >50 mph ). I'm talking about flying through a small radius, 80+ degree corner, you know, one marked 15 or 25, tires screeching and passengers shitting themselves.

Therefore, the factory spoiler is factory rice. It is there more for aesthetics than performance.

Now, if you were doing ralleys and SCCA autocrosses on a regular basis, the spoiler would be a worthwhile feature of the car. But for crusing to the strip mall, it is useless.

But, I suppose you knew all this, as you are an expert in WRC and all things automobiles, and I have wasted my time typing this.

wow good job you read a lot to figure this out. By the way they do have traction on snow, mud, gravel, which is why they probably have different tire combinations for the aforementioned conditions. While I agree that the wings both front and rear do contribute to keeping the car on the track, if you think they do this all by themselves well sorry. I don't drive a WRX sorry don't know where you got that from, and maybe try and keep thing to the topic at hand I never said I was an expert on WRC show me where I did oops you can't, your post was so good until the last line when you just couldn't resist the urge to be a dick, try and resist that urge, I'm not starting a flamewar by any means read your last line and tell me what it sounds like, people assume so much here, yet they know so little about the people they are badmouthing it is rather comical.

I guess that all cars need then are body kits to keep them glued to the road, or so BooRadley thinks, oh well some people.

Periods (.) are your friend silent_jay. Do us all a favor, eh?

Great post BooRadley.

Are you an English professor now as well bad30th? I could care less what you think of my punction I thought this was a forum to voice opinions, not to see who has the best punctuation. Can you let anything go by without inserting your own little bit of stupidity? I bet you can't.
Not surprising your view on the subject, maybe we should throw in a GTO for you as well. Oh yeah an American saying eh how just wrong.

can we now debate the virtues of these 2 cars rather than the stupidity of the each other?

If you had an ounce of intelligence whatsoever, you would understand that it is easier to understand and comprehend someone when they at least attempt to use some sort of separation between their sentences. By typing a run-on, babbling paragraph like this.... ....not only is it hard to understand, but you make yourself look like an idiot. People dont tend to listen to idiots, which is probably why youve only found acceptance in the Nonsense forum. :rolleyes:

Now go ahead and tell me you dont care what I think about you or what any else thinks about you. Which is funny because if you actually didnt care, then why would you be reacting the way you do? Why even post here?

And what the fuck does... ....mean? It makes absolutely no sense. I am guessing you are trying to insult me because I am American for some reason? Maybe? Again, my point.......write so people can comprehend you and you will be taken a little more seriously.

wow I bow to you oh great one, give me a fucking break, first off don't call me an idiot unless you really want this to get ugly. The eh comment was meant as a joke sorry maybe I should use your witty little emoticons, if I didn't think they were retarded. So I don't have an ounce of intelligence, well from what I have read you are the all and end all of fucking car knowledge. Every post in every thread that you have has been nothing but you thinking you are right, or trying to belittle someone when things don't go your way, maybe you should try and grow the fuck up and realise that there are actually people out there that do have knowledge on the subjects that are brought up here call it rambling if you like but fucking read it and try and comprehend it because, insulting and belittleing people is not the way to be taken seriously.

ok :rolleyes: you win, yet again.

First of all, compared to asphalt and concrete, snow, mud, and gravel have very little traction. No way. Even the best off-road tire in existance made for mud will not give you the same amount of traction as a sticky on-road race tire on a clean asphault surface. The only time you might get close is studded ice tires on ice. They grip suprisingly well.

The wings aren't the only thing keeping the car glued to the track, there are many other factors involved. But without the wings, the car couldn't go the speeds it does around the track.


Yes, I have read alot to figure this out... been reading it for years. I've read books on race car dynamics, participated in a college race car design team, are an member of the Society of Automotive Engineers, and am close to completing my mechanical engineering degree(senior).

If I was starting a flamewar, I wouldn't spend time typing up these posts. I'm trying to educate people, and share some knowledge. If I'm smartass sometimes, I apologize, it is no worse than anyone else in this forum.

aw sorry I won't reply to your witty comments next time, I guess you are the only one who is allowed to do that. Man what a joke.

Never said you would have the same traction in snow, mud, gravel, just said they have different tire combinations to improve traction, trust me I live in Canada, I know all about traction. Why be surprised how well studded tires grip, that is their intended purpose.

Very impressive list of accomplishments, and I mean that , that's really cool

Yeah really after having the smartest man in motors (bad30th) try and do whatever he was trying to accomplish, you really didn't say anything, sorry dude and good luck on your degree.

Yes. Yes you are.

From your responses/insults and the way you communicate, I seriously cannot believe that you are any older than 12.

Just as an FYI...

Like BooRadley, when next semester starts up in August, I'll be a senior as well (Mechanical Engineering specializing in Aeronautics).

Member of Society of Manufacturing Engineering

I also have done some extensive reading concerning cars, mostly driving theory and technique.

Taken a couple of instructional sessions with a few of my local accomplished AutoX drivers.

Trophy'ed in Novice 1 class (includes all novice F-bodies, Corvettes, S2000s, WRXs, Mustangs, etc) my first season out AutoXing with my big fat piece of shit Camaro.

Worked on cars for a solid 5 years for a living.

I'm not telling you any of this to brag, or to overshadow BooRadley's list (not that it does), but to tell you that I'm not some jackass kid who goes online spouting shit to try and impress people. Sorta like this guy I know of who comes on here and thinks that because he supposedly owns a 20B swapped 2.5RS Subaru (which strangely he cannot produce any pictures of), that he is the be all and end all of automotive knowledge, and that gives him the right to insult and belittle other people's opinions and contributions for no apparent reason other than the fact that they oppose his own. Damn I wish I could remember that guys name.......

Congrats man... do you feel like you've been in school forever, or is that just me? :p Oh, by the way.....whatever you have accomplished/experienced/know, it is wrong if silent_jay doesnt agree with it. So just dont even bother. He is right.

I want a 20B swapped 2.5RS. :hmm:

I'm glad this thread has turned into an e-penis measuring contest. It started as almost informative. Who needs another informative thread anyways?

It's a 22B genius, and sorry if I can't justify purchasing a digital camera just to take pics of my car, but well some people have more money than brains. Never said what I say is right and all else is wrong, show me once where I said this, oh wait you can't.

I'm the one belittleing other peoples opinions and contributions for no apparent reason, Pot this is kettle com check over, check your posts bad30th, seems you are guilty of the same. I forgot how being in University made it so you know everything, oh to be young again.

You don't have to purchase a digicam to take pics of your car. Wal mart will put any roll of film on CD for 4 bucks plus developing. That's a pretty weak reason not to put up pics of your car...

sorry I didn't know Wal Mart did that, we don't exactly have one here, but thanks for the suggestion. I really see no need for me to validate what I drive, I could care less if people believe me or not that is you choice, all I know is I drive it to work everyday and that is proof enough for me.

As for that being a "pretty weak reason not to put up pics of my car" that is your opinion, and well it really doesn't matter to me, I'm done with this useless thread, have a blast know it alls

iMPORTs RULez!!!!

DomesDICKS PWNED11!!11!

STD'S AND evILZ sLAY all OTHEr mUTHufUCKAS!!!

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jay, you sure you're not 12?

why don't you grow up, Jesus ya I'm 12.
You see when you are flinging insults as well it really isn't a good idea to call one person 12 because well that usually means all parties involved are immature. Actually I'm 27 and I work for the Canadian Government as an Ammunition Tech (I'm not in school, I'm in the real world, so I can't be in your little know it all club).

If that is your post then maybe the question should be put to you considering you're the one trying to continue this argument with something so stupid as that comment, go and have a flamewar somewhere else . so in closing why don't you just (I'll edit myself), there I saved the mods some work.