The economics of getting an electric car
 

I trying to figure out a way to reduce the amount of gas I have to buy. The simplest way is to ride my bike around, which I do. But it takes twice as long on 1-3 mile trips, four times as long on 4-6 mile trips. And, while it is good exercise and I have noticed improvements in my body after 1 month, there are many times when it isn't practical to ride. If it is raining or cold (about 1/2 the year), it isn't fun to ride. And if I need to go other places at lunch or after work, it is harder. There is the problem with not being able to carry very much stuff. And it is better if you can avoid major roads, which I can on my way to work.

So, I am thinking about getting a new car. The car I currently drive is a 1995 Saturn, but still looks pretty good. It gets 24 mpg in the city/ 30 mpg highway. I could easily continue with this car for a few more years, and wouldn't have any problems with it being my long distance highway car. Right now at $3/gal for gas/petrol, I spend $50/month or about $600/year. So at best, I could reduce that to 1/6 of the cost currently. ($100/year at $3/gal prices) if I didn't need to use gas around town.

Now buying a hybrid, Chevy Volt, or any other new car doesn't make sense to me at all. There is no way I could justify spending $15-$30k on a car. 95% of my driving is within 3 miles of my home. 4% is within 15 miles, and 1% is further than that.

So, that leaves me doing the work to convert a car/truck over to electric. I am thinking of converting a Chevy S-10 since they seem to be a common truck for people to convert. Still, it would cost $3-$5k and batteries might be another $1-2k. It would also give me the ability to transport Lowe's & Home Depot (Bunnings and Stratco for the Aussies) purchases back to my house.

I'm not doing this just to conserve gas, or because of CO2, or even because of raising gas prices. Well, partly because of raising gas prices. I'm thinking about doing this because I hate the *expletive deleted* gas companies. I hate how they can control the prices and how certain 'investors' are playing the system because there aren't enough people like me that could drop gas. I also don't care for most of the countries we get our gas from. Although there are plenty of people who will continue to buy gas which will give them more money. Maybe I will buy oil in the market to increase the price to push more people to stop using it.

I may have to get a few solar panels to put on my house, as I wouldn't want to increase the amount of coal I use. But that would be another $5-8k, although it may be possible to share a charge controller between both the car and the panels.

Would anybody else ever go this far? Or does this sound crazy?

It sounds like you're trying to be responsible about your energy usage, which is something that is crazy in the context of how we currently use energy. I don't think that it's crazy, though, and if you can manage to effectively reduce your consumption you will probably be much better than the average person as energy costs go up.

You can easily outfit yourself in such a way that makes your bike easier to use in the situations you mentioned, for much less than buying a new car.

1) Buy a rain suit--get one big enough to go OVER your regular clothing.

2) Get a basket, a rack, and panniers to carry your shit, or use a backpack.

3) If your bike doesn't already have fenders, you should probably get some.

4) Water resistant biking gloves are very helpful for when it's wet and cold.

5) Invest in a good wireless cyclocomputer--this way you can keep track of exactly how far you've gone and how long it took you.

I ride my bicycle in Oregon through the winter--through the hail, rain, and snow--and I'm a huge weather wimp. But seriously, putting on the rain suit makes quite the difference in keeping yourself dry and comfortable.

Admittedly, there are some cities wherein biking is simply not practical, and it may be that you live in one of those. That's unfortunate. Here's a link to a business in Portland, Oregon that sells a variety of eco-friendly vehicles: http://eco-motion.com/ Hopefully it can provide you with some relevant information, and more options.

As far as carrying stuff...within reason...get a trailer for the bicycle. Most can carry about 100 pounds, which will easily get you your groceries, and a quick stop at the movie rental store. I paid $120 for mine.

What kind of bike do you have? If it's a cheap mountain bike, then I'd suggest getting some semi-slick tyres to reduce rolling resistance - these make a massive difference on the road, or to get/try a race bike, as these allow you to go much faster with similar effort.

How come you go half the speed when you up the distance to 4-6miles?

I'd love to cycle everywhere, but conversely, town is about 12miles away, which isn't convenient very often.

I have a good mountain bike, it isn't new or expensive, but it is very good.

My treads on the tires are worn enough to be pretty smooth. That is how much I've ridden in the past 8 years on it. And I have the tires really inflated for road travel.

I was comparing the time it took riding my bike versus a car when I said it would take twice as long. On short trips, cars get slowed down by stop signs or roads that don't connect. However, on 4-6 mile trips, cars can go faster in the straights than my bike, so I lose time to them. However, it is the distance where an electric car would make a lot of sense to me.

And going 20-40 miles back and forth from town would be really good to use an electric car, if you had to do it a lot. Especially if there are a bunch of stop lights or traffic jams.

Lithium-ion battery-powered all-electric used car conversion FTW. Buy a used BMW 3 series from the mid 90s ($5000) and convert it to electric ($3-4,000). That's already less expensive (and nicer to look at ) than the super-sub compacts like the Yaris and Fit and it gets vastly superior mileage.

BTW, the Volt is a concept car.

The Volt will also cost too much, although the concept is good. I am thinking of a 90's Chevy S-10 since it is practical (I could use a pickup truck anyways) and pretty standard to find electric conversion parts for.

I still am trying to figure out the battery system. A123 has some lithium iron phosphate batteries I think (maybe there are some other places that do as well). But I am looking for something that will work for me and doesn't cost too much. I would like to not have to replace batteries every 2-4 years either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium...sphate_battery

You're not crazy and God bless you for trying to find an answer!

In fact, more power to your (our) cause & search for better ideas/solutions, it's people like you who find the answers to Huge Problems -like the energy crisis- and become famous millionaires after they patent their ideas! (Yeah, I like to simplify but hey, you get my point....

Us Americans must think globally and start finding solutions out there. This whole oil thing is beyond reason.

And Yes.... It's way too Republican for my tastes.

But then, I'm a dying breed - the middle class American.

Not to mention the fact that its predicted sticker price will be in the $40-$50K range. An absolute waste of R&D, IMO. Why go to all that trouble if your target customers make up only 10% of car buyers, if that? This will be a basic Chevy, and their target group is Mercedes, Lexus, and Cadillac owners??!! I'm glad I dumped my GM stock long ago.

At least it's better than the Tesla, which - at $100K - is nothing more than another self-indulgent toy for the rich.

To be practical and worthwhile, a plug-in hybrid or all-electric car will have to sell for under $25K if it's to really make a genuine difference in the world. Where's Henry Ford when you need him?

When you find an answer, let me know - I'm using a gallon of gasoline each way to get to and from work. That's $140/month.

Predicted sticker prices are famously unreliable. It could be $28k.

Yourname: public transportation.

Willravel,

I checked. I'd still have to drive 8 miles down to the nearest bus stop and transfer three times. To get to work by 7:30 a.m., I would have to leave my house by 5:05 to catch the 5:28 bus.

Leaving work at 4:30 p.m. I'd get back to the originating bus stop at 6:25; hop in my car and drive 8 miles, to get home almost 14 hours after I left.

Oh - and the R/T bus fare is $3.50. The 16 miles would cost me around $2
So all told, I'd save $1.50, but spend 3 more hours of my day commuting.

Sorry, I mistook the "best part of the west part" as the SF Bay area. We've got light-rails. I'd suggest getting a geo metro. 50 mpg; better than a Prius or Civic hybrid.

We've got light rail coming to Phoenix, but it runs mainly east of downtown. I'm way north of town.

This is the big problem with transit. If we all worked in the same spot and all got up at the same time it would work great.. unfortunately we are what we are.

I'd love to take transit but I can't. I'd love to commute by bicycle but I can't. What's my solution? We're looking at moving into the city and I'm going to change from my much loved (yeah right, but it ain't bad) construction job to a hated "Office Space" environment where I have to file TPS reports and figure out why Linux servers won't communicate with Windows clients.

Should be great right up until the revolution. All bets are off then.

I met a guy in Mesa that had an electric pickup truck in 2001 or 2002. It is pretty much the same thing I am trying to build, but possibly using different batteries. You may need to use the lead-acid ones to get better range, where I need better durability and cold weather capability.

It was about 10 years ago, but I think I remember that the Arizona Mills mall had charging stations for the EV1. But, they have probably taken those out.

How is the traffic in Phoenix now? Are people leaving due to the housing bubble?

Even though there are a lot of old S-10s out there, I have found one for $500. Now to figure out how much it would cost and if I want to do this project now or wait until the fall as intended.

The traffic is much worse than you remember, ASU2003. So far I've somewhat lucked out - I take the 51 into town and back, which is much better than the 101, 202, or I-10.

No one is leaving because no one can sell their house!

while i love the idea of converting an old truck to electric, and there are a few sites about people who have done it, i gotta say that if 95% of your travels are 1-3 miles... suck it up and ride a bike, or walk.

on a bike you can cover 3 miles in less than 10 minutes easy... do you really not have enough time in your day to spare that? or enough warm clothing to be out in the rain or cold that long? i can go a mile on my bike in the time it takes me to find a parking spot and walk in the store sometimes.

as for carrying stuff, you can get a trailer
http://www.camcarts.co.uk/images/bic...h_firewood.jpg
panniers
http://www.wheelism.co.uk/images/build/loaded3.jpg
or even an xtra-cycle
http://i.treehugger.com/files/TH_xtracycle2_052605.jpg

it's your money and you can do what you like, but there are those of us who do 10, 20, even 30 mile daily commutes to stick it to exxon et al, 1-3 should be no problem at all.

It's not the 1-3 mile rides I am worried about though. It is the 4-10 mile, each way trips where there are roads that are unsafe for bicycles that I would have to use. Then there is also a gym I could use, but it is about 7 miles away, and after working out, a 7 mile ride isn't that fun after you have ridden 13 that day already. And there is a whole time element to it as well when you have to go that far.

But it's not like I would choose the electric car over the bike when the weather is good and it's a safe trip to take.

I am still on the fence and doing some more research, but I know that it is hard to justify economically with the state taxes, insurance and regular maintenance figured in.

We always have these from BC, haven't looked into them much myself.

http://www.itiselectric.com/

It looks like a good car/truck. And I would like to see more of them on the roads. The problem is that I am having a hard time justifying $5000-$7500 for this hobby/experiment. And I would have the same problem spending that much money on a new car too.

I am trying to make something similar to that though.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/27/1...-us-of-our-wa/

This is what made me think that I could do this, and that is what I am looking for. It is a truck and I would like to abuse it like it is a truck. But, I don't want to have to use gas. And I want to use a little more expensive lithium iron phosphate batteries.