What happened to cars?
 

Cars these days...Jesus.

Am I the only one who miss the days of simple, reliable, good-looking cars?

I miss the no-frills designs of the 60's and 70's. No plastic exteriors/interiors. No computers, GPS's, whatever. Simple engines, simple brakes. Bench seats and a solid construction.

Looking around the roads and highways of the 21st century, cars are increasingly looking like spaceships. Why? Why does my parent's new Honda have an all-plastic and vinyl interior, and a design that makes it look like something that belongs on Mars?

I have been told that it's always been this way, that new cars look so "new". But I'm not sure about that. Maybe it's just a bygone era I'm reminiscing about..

Alternate views? Opposing views? What do you, the TFP, think?

From a manufacturing standpoint... plastics are cheap and easy to reproduce. Plus the cost of retooling to update your interior or exterior designs is generally cheaper than that of metal or other materials.

As far as looks are concerned, I think desingers are always wanting to do something that hasn't been done before. I know I hate being accused of simply recreating someone else's work. With so many designs from the past, its hard to keep ahead of everyone else without trying to make attempts at getting far ahead of your competition.

blade02, why not just by an old car for yourself?

You can get a decent Dodge Challenger for like $12k. Go for it, and post some pics. Those things are wonderful cars.

As for me, I take the safty features of new cars for my family over the power, style, and nistalga of the older cars. Also, those older cars would be older than I am.

It's a trade off, I guess. I think cars from the 1930's to early 1970's were much better looking. But there are some definite advantages to the way cars are made today. They have a hell of a lot more safety features, as willravel pointed out. They're also more comfortable, get better gas mileage, create less pollution and frequently offer better performance. We now have four and six cylinder engines that out-perform the V8's of old. And today's "muscle cars" would blow the doors off of most cars made a few decades ago. Hell; my parents Toyota Solara is probably faster than many 1960's muscle cars.

many cars of the 50's and 60's were designed specifically to look like space ships, as interest in the "space race" grew... so in that aspect things haven't changed

i've had ABS save my ass more than once, and i do like my bucket seats, but i can agree that sometimes there is an overkill in the auto industry

You should go test drive a Lotus Elise ;) ...OK, the motor is modern, but talk about simple, spartan, functional and that's it, at least to me.


On this note and having not much to do with cars ...don't drink and drive... have any of you noticed that some traditional glass beer bottles are being replaced by aluminum "cans" shaped to look like bottles? ...must be cheaper than glass when you factor recycling/energy etc into the picture.

I drive 80's cars and only 80's and older, these new cars are all junk. My daily drive for the summer is a 81 Malibu wit the 355 small block, no computers to screw with and it hardly ever breaks down (unless I drive that shit out of it) and my Winter beater is an 88 Sierra 1/4 ton pick-up its TBI injected but thats still better then these new EFI set-ups.

Way way back, a discussion(not here) about new cars brought up this 'logic': even without innovations, cars are and would changed in appearance so that buyers would want them. Case in point: my own car, an 01 PT. They came, no matter what style chosen, with one interior color for fabric, one for leather and gray molded bumpers. In 02, the body style was exactly the same, but you could get painted bumpers on the upgraded models and, in 03, interior choices increased and all models had painted bumpers; everything else style-wise was the same.
The original VW Bugs had such subtle changes, if any, through the years that you really had to know your Bugs to know what year you were looking at.
The cars of the last 10 years, I have to agree, are almost carbon copies of their plastic selves; I can't tell an Accord from a Ford and those import minivans? Fuhgeddaboudit....at least everyone knows what my car is when they see it!:suave:

I do prefer older cars myself and have never owned anything newer then my 92 exploder and I have to say it may be one of the least reliable cars I have ever owned. My preferred year range is mid 60's to mid 70's. decent sized cars with a good amount of power. As for new cars being faster....mabey, but I would put my money on my 1959 Buick Electra against an brand new honda any day. It was made back when cars had power. Not because it was suposed to be a hot rod but because thats just the way it was done. Its powered by a 401 cid NailHead They named the motor the 445 Wildcat because it made 445 ft/lb of torque and 325 hp stock. and everyone agrees the heads dont flow worth crap. if the designers had actualy put more effort inot them like they do today it could have easily been up around 550 ft/lb 45 hp. the only place a modern car could beet it on the street is in cornering. and even then I am a good enough driver and can stuff enough tire under it to give most hondas a run for there money around corners.
Now that I have praised the cars of the past I should also say that I do like modern cars too. I like alot of the modern styling out there almost as well as I like the older styles. In my opinion almost any car is a good car

Because Im not looking at getting one soon. I like new stuff myself. Not that I wouldn't want a classic, but for now my focus is graduating college, and my 98 Ranger is more than enough vehicle to see me through 1 more year. I also used to own and race (autocross) a 1984 Mustang SVO. I loved that car (was my first) but it caught fire. Now I co-drive a 2006 Solstice, and having a car that passes tech inspeciton everytime, and allows me to focus on me, instead of what weird quircks the car is having, is pretty damn nice.

nothing to say

Ha! :lol: You're right about old cars.....though I think most the new sedans look like big bathtubs.....I love all the safety features.

That's odd. We were just the other day talking about cars today vs. cars yesterday and how much better they are now.
I can't remember the last time I changed a tire. I don't know exactly where my spare is now.
Or when I had to get a battery jump. About a year ago I looked under the hood for my battery. Couldn't find it. My neighbor came over he couldn't find it. I asked at the dealership next time I was in and learned that it was under the back seat.
I used to have a 66 Mustang. Whenever I needed to change the water pump, I bought 2 replacement pumps. You you always sure to crack the first one you tried to replace.

My point is...the things that I routinely did to the older cars I can't do anymore. Wouldn't know where to begin. But the important point is that I don't have to. Those kind of things along with many others are simply not needed. Crs are made much much better and they last much much longer. Basically, all I do is buy gas and change the oil.

One last thing. I have a Buick now. It has Onstar. I get a periodic email from Onstar giving me their analysis of the mechanical condition of my car. It blows my mind.

What's the fuss? Ok, you dont like how they look. So what? Whats wrong with how they work? Get a Honda or an Acura and you wont complain about reliability. All the gadgets? Cars are more than vehicles for many people - myself for example. Some people spend a lot of time in cars and its not always cruising 65 on the highway. Sitting in a traffic jam, parallel parking, driving around a strange neighborhood looking for a restaurant -- all these new technology enhancements improve cars, so don't bug out. The next time a mini van backs into your 30 year old bumper that is nigh impossible to replace, you'll be wishing it had a rear view camera.

Um. . .The next time a modern minivan backs into his 30 year old solid steel bumper, he can probably fix the damage with some steel wool. The minivan may well be totalled, however ;)

The big complaint I have with modern cars is that it's so hard to do anything to them. Sure, they last forever. great. But if I want to install go-fast crap on there, it's gonna be a neverending battle with the computer unless I also replace that. Blah.

The maintenance thing has shifted from do-it-yourself...to take it to the dealer . (for me) Of course....you need$$ for this. :|
I remember getting regularly chewed out by my dad for not checking the oil often enough...or the radiator water....or the brake fluid....or the fan belts.....endless guilt! :D
Starting a car in the winter used to be pretty touch and go.....I used to use this dipstick heater thing....an electric dipstick you'd keep in the oil while the car sat in the garage over night during winter...so the oil would be thin enough to start the car easily in the morning. :rolleyes:
Even if I wanted (my husband ;) ) to do something on my car....all the electronic stuff makes it impossible. It IS highly annoying to have to take your car to the dealer and get a diagnostic ($$) to find out what it needs.

And that "Check engine" light :mad: mine came on, I freak out all weekend, don't drive anywhere for fear of breakdown......steel myself to drive the 50 miles to the dealer on Monday, only to find it's some emission thing, $270 to fix.....makes no difference in the running of the car, it was always running fine....:mad:

Still, I like clean air, and I like safety. :thumbsup: Remember when you had to take your car for a car inspection every year or two? I can't remember exactly why that was required....but they did away with it in my state long ago.
I guess they figured out even if they guaranteed that everyone had working turnsignals....they couldn't make numbskulls use them. :p

I'd like to see us go back to the earlier days of engine management computers. When the check engine light on my old Civic would go off, you'd just peel back the passenger side carpeting and count the number of flashes from a little LED. Look up the code, and you know what's wrong.

Whoa! :eek: I missed out on that one.....I would have felt pretty smug, self reliant, and empowered to have done that for myself! :thumbsup: All car ownership means to me anymore is having enough $$ to keep up with maintnance, insurance, or upgrading.

This is how I feel about cars in general. My '89 F250 doesn't even need special fasteners most of the time. I can just use nuts and bolts from the hardware store. It's more like working on a tractor or boat than a road-going vehicle.

I love my car, an '06 Acura RL. Rock solid reliable, enough power for anything I'd want to do, quiet, decent gas milage, excellent stereo system roomy enough to hold a group and a nice large truck for plenty of groceries, a ton of safety features. It's boring looking, sure, but so what? I spend virtually no time standing outside looking at it.

I am a big fan of old cars myself. My old 99 Honda is the newest vehicle I own. Its hard to beat a Honda for a daily driver. However a newer Accura TL will probably replace it one day.
My fun ride is a 1964 Chevy truck. Loud, rough ride, requires a good bit of time to keep it running, but worth the trouble. When I replace it I will have an even older truck. (50's Chevy or possibly even older) I miss the days of simpler cars as well which is why I plan to keep one at home ready for some fun.

This is the part that concerns me. Many new cars (2005 and up) have gone more proprietary again with many of the systems beyond basic engine performance and emissions. If only the dealer has the right scan tool or software to communicate with the car how do you know what the dealer is telling you is true?

Newer cars are more reliable but the opposite side of that is what happens when your warranty runs out? If the aftermarket catches up and tools as well as parts are available then great. But right now the cost of replacement batteries for a Toyota Echo is a few thousand dollars each and I believe there are 3 or 4 in the car. Toyota reccomends replacement of all batteries at the same time not seperately. And life span is given at 5-7 years if they die before you sell the car you're going to replace them. That's just one example.

I may be a little biased against the dealers because I work for an independant repair shop but I also know that on many an occasion the dealer techs have the luxury of replacing parts until it's fixed rather then actually diagnosing and solving the problem. I would like for the manufacturers to make available all the tools/software as well the information to repair their cars. I'm willing to pay for it and others must be as well. As long as it is available.

lol have you see the new lexus? It can park it self. My sister has the 2004 lexus 330 and it has camera's in the back for when your backing up and like 6 day's ago she backed up into a firehydrent.

:eek: That's absolutely hilarious...

Being in the business I'm sure you're aware, service, and more recently, trained-monkey parts swapping, is the largest non-petroleum source of profit in the automobile industry. The restrictions you've seen appear in ODB II and up are in no small part due to dealer and parts manufacturer interests whose lobbies push hard to keep it legal. Making service economical and potentially DIY is not in the interest of those businesses or their partners. Without real oversight of the industry again we'll all be driving vehicles we cannot service.

There's a shop owner that ordered the Mercedes-Benz Scan Tool from his local dealership. Payed for it and picked it up. Daimler-Chysler North America sent him notice that unless he returned the tool they would take him to court and sue him for stealing intellectual property and some other stuff. Their own dealer sold it to him. I don't see how he could have stole anything if you ordered it and they filled the order. There should be some kind of anti-trust thing you could invoke/bring against them but their the ones with millions of dollars for legal fees to fight stuff like this not the shop owner.

I hope that enough people realize soon that there is a problem and that they should regulate or legislate the manufacturers into making information available.

Unfortunately, for most people taking your car to the shop is the most natural thing in the world. It never occurs to them that something mechanical could be fixed by mortals like you or I. I've stopped telling people I like to work on cars because most think I'm lying, or they think I'm only bragging about my recent induction as a First Order Mekanikal Wizard or something. It all comes down to comfort... people expect too much of it.

I'm going to have to admit that it would be pretty hard to convince most people that today's cars are lame. I just think that (I believe this was mentioned in a different thread) cars of late seem to be more like stasis modules with a pressurized cabin, front-side-rear view cameras, GPS voice directions, tinted windows and even an autopilot. I suppose it's about one's perception of "cool". These cars, in my opinion, are definately not cool.


I also bring this up: New cars boast all these safety features, which I'm sure are all fine and dandy for minor accidents, but what about the family who can't afford anything better than a '84 VW Rabbit (whose airbags died years before the 21st century)? Does safety on the road only come with $20,000?

Personally, I think there has been a trade-off between old and new cars. My favorites are from the late 60's, (very early 70's). The body design defined them. Mustang 429; Camaro 427 (Yenko); Roadrunner; et.al. These were cars to reckon with, and you knew it. Plus, they were much easier to work on. Today's cars require the ASE requirement. They are safer; maybe faster, but you cannot put your own personal touch (as it was). It was also easier to get parts for the older vehicles. I've rebuilt a '66 Mustang and a '69 Firebird - much easier than my current project ('84 300z).