How do you feel about bicycles on the road?
 

If this is the wrong forum to post this in please forgive and move. Anyhoo this is related to another thread where a forum member was hit by a car while cycling to work. I too am a cyclist and quite often on public roads I am hassled. I've been run off the road, had bottles thrown at me, been cursed at and just generally treated like I had no right to the roads. What a lot of people don't realise is that it its illegal to ride a bike on the side-walk. Also a bike must travel with the flow of traffic not against. A bike is subject to the same laws as automobiles regarding traffic though bikes are not allowed on interstate highways. I always give cyclists lots of room and respect when approaching them in my car. Of course as a cyclist I guess that is to be expected. My question is how do others feel about cyclists and how do YOU react when you as a driver share the road with them?

I suppose I am the same way, as I have ridden bicycles and motorcycles for a while. I give them room to manuver, witout causing a disruption in the flow of traffic. I realize that they are virtually unprotected against cars and treat them as such.

I'm also a cyclist and have been run off the road many times. Once a cop was driving by when it happened, and he turned around and pulled the guy over.

Nowadays I always stay on the sidestreets. Never again on any main roads. I've heard too many grisly stories.

I always give cyclists all the room they need.

I ride a motorcycle so I share some of the same visability problems with bikes and emphathize with them. From what I have seen though I have to say that I don't think they belong on the main roads with cars whiffing by them only 1 foot or so away.

I've got no problem with cyclists, of course, I'm in a relatively suburban area. I don't know how I'd feel about those crazy bike messengers or delivery people and such in NYC or other places.

I have to commute up and down a windy mountain road that is very popular with bicyclists. The road is clearly marked "cyclists-single file law applies" . There is a bicycle lane for much of the road. On weekends, it is nearly impossible to drive to town. Herds of illiterate bicyclists 3 and 4 across block the road. Given that there is a single passing zone in a 15 miles stretch it makes for regular confrontations. It is slightly better when I'm driving my motorcycle, though they swerve in front of me all the time. The physics of an 850# motorcycle vs a 20# bicycle seem obvious to me, bicyclists don't seem to get it. I've really got to question the sanity of driving 3 and 4 across around a blind turn, you really need to give drivers half a chance to miss you.

I'm perfectly willing to "share the road", but sharing goes both ways. I'll obey the laws that apply to me, bicyclists need to do the same.

Near where I work, there is a very narrow, very busy 4 lane road (2 lanes each direction). There is no shoulder and SUVs tend to take up their entire lane. I often see students riding bicycles on the road during rush hour with long lines of cars behind them. Cars will jockey aggressively to get around the cyclists. Sometimes, cyclists will jump off the road onto a sidewalk and back onto the road after passing a few cars. Others will run lights causing cars to screech to a halt. It seems very dangerous. When I bike around the area, I take side roads. I think that some roads are inappropriate for bikers, but generally I don't have a problem with bicyclists that follow traffic laws.

I'm with StanT. There are groups of people who go cycling a couple days every week. Not only do they violate the single file law, they usually take up the entire lane of traffic. When approached by the cops, they all complain about being harrassed and how the other drivers don't obey the laws. It never occurs to them that they are violating a number of laws themselves. It has gotten so bad that everyone involved in this situation is now on an automatic ticket rule (both drivers and cyclists) until everyone starts obeying the rules of the road.

Well I see cycling as a more practical method of transportation of shorter distances (under 5 miles at least) and think cyclists should have there own portion of the road, and people should be encouraged to walk/cycle. However I'm a hypocrite because I very easily get road rage and there are times when a cyclist is in a very inconvienant spot so I get mad at the person, but never act on it.

i'm a cyclist (haven't owned or driven a car in a few years now) and i can tell you that on the daily i get harrassed by people. not to mention, that certain spots in town where the traffic is pretty bad, signs have even been put up that read "yield to cyclist" "caution: (bicycle symbol)", etc. and no cars ever adhere to the signs. not only that, but when i have the right of way, it's all of a sudden my fault when a car is upset about my position. i'm the "cunt" who won't "get out of the fucking way". <p>
even laws are in place that require motorists to give a cyclist ___ amount of feet, the "safe distance" law. here, it's three feet... which i don't think i've <i>ever</i> experienced.

Precisely my sentiments. I admire cyclists - it's good exercise and an ecologically sound form of transportation. I give them their space and watch out for them. But that's very hard to do sometimes on some of our busier 2-lane roads with absolutely no shoulder. It's not a huge problem to me - a minor and infrequent inconvenience at most - but I worry about their safety. But the way our streets are set up in this city - a hodge-podge of newer streets, older country roads that have been gradually built around, sidewalks that run for 2 blocks and then stop, etc. - it's hard to find good places to cycle. I'd love to see things developed so alternative means of transportation were ore tenable.

I think it's great that individuals cycle, it's good for the enviroment! I only get irritated if i see indivudals biking on roads that have No shoulder and they are literally using the road itself and going 5MPH in a 40MPH zone . . . But if they are on a designated area . . . then i think it's a good thing . . .

In most places the road is the designated area. It is completely legal for someone to bike on nonhighway roads, and in my city, unless you're in a residential area, you have to bike on the road. Just saying.

For the most part they don't bother me. It does, however, piss me off quite a bit when I see them run red lights.

I wish (some) cyclists would decide whether they are pedestrians, and stay on the sidewalk, or road-users, and stay on the road. I have no problem with them if they stick to their bike lanes and I can stick to my car lanes but when they weave in and out, have no way of signaling and don't use their arms to point, when they run a red light by weaving on to the sidewalk or nudging halfway into the intersection, that pisses me off. I think that's the real reason so many people can't stand cyclists, because if they're slow but steady then there's no problem, but when they deliberately weave around cars recklessly and never look, that's when my patience wears a little thin.

But I'm hardly going to congratulate them for exercising or for not polluting the environment. If they want to do that then it's their business, I'm not going to reach out and give a cyclist a medal. I just want to get from point A to point B and know that both cars and cyclists will stick to their lanes, obey the rules and make themselves visible and make it clear what they're intending to do.

I dunno if there's a single file law on the road that I most worry about, but when I see cyclists 2-3 side by side, I get pissed at them for putting *me* on the spot of having the difficulty in passing them without putting their safety at risk. The farther out I have to go, the higher the chances (even if they are still small) that I'm gonna get into a head-on collision with opposing traffic, and then they're still gonna get hurt by being in proximity to thousands of pounds of twisted metal.

I really did wish there was a mini lane for them though since they can slow traffic down in some areas. I don't have a problem with cyclist on the road as long as they follow the law. I've driven through the city before and cyclist give no regard to the law. Once I was minding my own business in the city driving through an intersection and some cyclist thought he could zoom across me (going through a red light). Well, he was wrong. I slammed on the brakes and my car just knocked him off his bike. He wasn't hurt, but it left my plastic front bumper with 2 holes. At the time I had the car for less then a week (>_<)

Its a survival tactic. You cant squeeze past them when they do that--meaning you cant, purposefuly or inadvertantly, squeeze them off the road. You have to get in the other lane, just like you would to pass a normal car. Many cyclists, myself included, will even ride in the middle of the lane if its a road where there is a big chance of being squeezed off or being "doored" by cars parked on the side of the road.

I try to stick to small roads as much as possible, but sometimes you cant help but get on a busier road every now and then. But trust me, Im not trying to get on busy roads to get a kick.

I think that if a cyclist is travelling slowly they should be allowed on the sidewalk. I don't believe a person on a bicycle travelling 5 mph is any danger to a pedestrian, and they would cause less problems then when they are on the road.

Fast cyclists are an "in-between" from sidewalk and road. Too dangerous on the sidewalk, to slow on the road (well mostly). When cars pass, they're more at risk for collisions, and even more so if the bicycles are two abreast, or more.

When i'm cycling, i'll stick to the side of the road as much as possible unless I'm at speed of traffic (50km/h), in which case i'll move towards the center so I can bike on a better surface.

I dont really have a problem with cyclists, I've never been boxed in by side to side riders or had a problem with passing them. They have as much a right to be on the road as any of us does in a vehicle. Cycling lanes are awesome though.

Cyclists make me feel uneasy.

Back in Europe, I got accustomed to wider sidewalks which were divided into two parts; one for the pedestrians, and one for cyclists. So, the cyclists had their own sidewalks, and kept off the roads for the most part. I saw a cyclist in regular road traffic maybe once or twice a year.

Now, here in States, or Texas anyway, it seems bicycles aren't allowed on the sidewalks, so they use the same lanes as the trucks and the SUVs. I used to love riding a bike, but haven't even seriously considered it since I found out about this.

So as someone who's not accustomed to having to watch out for cyclists except when taking a turn, I feel uneasy seeing them in traffic.

I find it extremely annoying especially when it is rush hour, those bicyclists are such an inconvience because you can't cut them off or pass them without a good chance of hitting them. But it is there right to take that chance with the crazies in the world. Oh yeah, my title says I'm crazy. Watch out cyclists of the world. HEHE :crazy:

I'm not thrilled about them. However, I do believe in "live and let live". Thus, I think that a part of the road should be visibly marked for bicycles only, and in places where the road is not wide enough for that, there should be allowed to use the sidewalks.

This is not the way that most laws related to cycling on the road are written. I agree that more cycling specific lanes are needed. But a cyclist should not be on a sidewalk. Note that I say "cyclist", a term that I consider as applying to someone on a bike for the purpose of moving at a pace greater than 5 MPH, who is obeying traffic laws, not weaving in traffic, etc. There is a lot of difference in my mind between a cyclist and 'some guy on a bike'. Right now, the way laws are currently written in most states, if the road is not wide enough for a cyclist and a car to ride abreast safely, the whole lane can be used by the cyclist. Additionally, if there is not sufficient room for a motorist to safely pass a cyclist within a lane, it is incumbent upon the motorist to wait until a break in traffic allows them to pass in the oncoming lane of traffic, just like they would for a slower moving car.

It is very unfortunate that most states do not educate their drivers about cyclists rights and responsibilities on the road. I have been involved in this issue for some time. As a long-time cyclist, I have had my share of encounters with motorists. I have also attended numerous public safety and MTPO (Metropolitan Transportation Planning Organization) meetings that address the issue of cycling as a means of transport. Unfortunately, the prevailing interest of these meetings, is how to keep the cyclists properly aware of their responsibilities on the road. Believe me, if someone spends more than 1 hour a week on a bike, they know the drill. They have to if they want to survive. What is desparately needed is more driver education about how to behave around cyclists. If you were to give a little impromptu quiz to 10 motorists and 10 cyclists on various situations where a bike and a car might encounter on the road, I would suggest that the cyclists would score much better.

Some of the above posts are very encouraging. People suggesting that they give cyclists as wide berth as they can. Or posters who say they are glad to see cyclists making the environmentally sound transportation choice. Of course, I don't know if our shared microcosm here is in any way reflective of the sentiments of the population at large.

My two cents of rambling...

I'm a psuedo-cyclist, have a brother and a cousing who are both pro-level racers. I'm also a commuter. I think the biggest problem most drivers (including myself) have with cyclists is when they are riding in areas where they don't have the skill to ride. Riding in/near traffic is not easy and isn't necessarily for Joe Sixpack on a leisure ride. I've certainly watched cyclists pass me in my car and see them wiggling very unsteadily through traffic. Or even worse, a family on a leisure ride down a steep windy road (routes 1 and 92 in and out of Half Moon Bay, CA come to mind) backing up traffic for a quarter mile. Scares me.

I guess my basic opinion is that it falls down to the simple concept of respect. Drivers need to respect cyclists and give the plenty of space to be safe, but at the same time cyclists need to respect those cars around them and yield when they are obstructing. As a parallel, I believe there is a law in CA that says a car that is slowing more than 5 cars behind it must pull over. The same should be true for cyclists. It doesn't really matter what your vehicle is. Be safe, courteous, respectful and aware of your own abilities. Drivers need to keep eyes open for all smaller vehicles - ie a compact car if you are an SUV, or a bike, or a motorcycle for everyone!

I've certainly been disrespectful from both sides and feel bad about both. Share the road!

"Cylists are an inconvenience", "they slow me down." To people with that attitude I extend a big hearty "FUCK YOU!" I pay taxes just like you do. I should be able to ride on the roads without having some asshole run me into the ditch, or pass within inches of my shoulder. I live up a narrow, windy 2 lane road, I keep to the side of the road but I do not ride in the gravel to allow people to pass me and get home to thier television sets more quickly.

I had one driver who continually passed by me extreemly close so I decided to do something about it. I took her plate umber and called the cops. As I suspected, it did fuck all so I went to plan B. I attached an orange flag to the end of a fiberglass rod, and attached it to the front fork/rack on my bike so that it extended 3' to the left side of my bike at about 2 1/2 feet from the ground. I rode home after work and sure as shit she came whippin' by really close. Whap, she hit the flag and honked and fingered me. So I took it to the final step I attached a 5 pound weight to the rod and supported it so it would not droop. Next day, WHAM, the lead weight smashed her headlight and did a bit of other damage. Now she gives me more room but still gives me the finger. I laugh every time I see her.

I cycle to and from work everyday, about 11 miles-ish, and i do try and avoid the busy times at possible, but some drivers seem to think that because you don't have an engine, you have no right to be on the road.
I wear a big Hi-Viz, have my lights on, even during the day, but still, some people are complete morons.
Granted, i can be a little bit of a git at times, but thats usually after i've had a hard days work, and i really can't be arsed, but i still obey the traffic rules, and try not to get myself run off the road, but still...

Sorry, you can see my ride home wasn't that good today.


I do wish that people would pay more respect to cyclists, we have every right to be on the roads as people in cars.

In my neighborhood, the bicycle laws are very specific. "Single file law" means just that. Cyclists must ride within 1 foot of the shoulder and cannot ride 2 across unless no car is visible for 300'. There is a 15 mile stretch with a single section that has 300' visibility and it is also a passing zone. I also ride a bicycle, but there isn't a chance in hell I would ride one there, it's a dangerous place for cyclists and cars to coexist. Also note, that this road doesn't go anywhere. Any cyclists are out for recreation, not commuting (not that that matters). I expect cyclists to obey the law. I'll pass 4' from the shoulder, if you swerve wide it's your fault, not mine. If you are 2 across around a blind corner, you can expect a close call and a finger. I don't mind cyclist endangering their own lives, but when they choose to disregard the law, they endanger mine, as well.

That made me laugh out loud in my office. I feel your frustration, Powdered. I never understand why a motorist in a cozy climate-controlled cushioned car can be frustrated with the delay from a cyclist fighting his way through cold or wet or worse. Commuter cyclists are the best! I was one for years but have since gone to carpooling with my wife. Now that we work at the same location, it doesn't make sense for her to drive the car while I ride my bike to the exact same location. Maybe when the weather is more favorable, I can convince her to commute in with me by bike 1 or 2 days a week.

i make sure to try and give bikers protection such as when i hit a bust 4 way stop and they need to go through i make sure they get through before me because the divers in a St. Louis are assholes. (here turn signals have nothing to do with asking for space, here they mean he wants over, everyone pack it together and run him off the road) i am also a biker but i don't go out when there is traffic so i get up at 5:00 am on the weekends ride about fifty each day so i see plenty of problems with bikes and cars

Now wait just a cotton-pickin' minute
 

:eek:
As "the wife" I'd like to assert that I DID commute by bike back in grad school in FL, but now in the snow and rain of Kentucky with a job I have to dress up for, I can't ride a bike. My darling husband makes it sound like I'm this car-loving nazi, when, in truth, I am more of a car-hating, tree-hugging, vegetarian. :D

As to the "one foot from the sidewalk" BS, go out to a road and look at the crap that gathers there. First of all, that is the gutter. You can't ride a bike in the gutter. 2, with all the car-related garbage at that margin, a cyclist cannot safely ride 15-20 mph there.

I don't write the laws, I just try to obey them. The "I'm above the law" mentality is a big part of the problem, whether you are behind the wheel or behind a handlebar. Things are a bit different up in the mountains, we are probably talking apples and oranges here.
This is a picture of the road that is my primary commute.
Note the blind curves. Also note that the speed limit is 35mph. A cyclist in the middle of the lane doing 2mph uphill around a blind curve, doesn't stand a chance when a car comes around the corner. The driver of the car doesn't have a chance to miss them. I've been hit on my motorcycle by cyclists that cannot control their lane usage while going downhill. If you can't control your vehicle and obey the single file law, then you ought to be riding in the flatlands where the law is different.

StanT
You have a good point. I never drive around blind corners how the car makers show in commercials, I always slow down and assume there might be a hunk of fallen rock in the middle of the road ahead.

BTW, is that your newfie?
I ... like ... Dawgs! (obscure)

Yep, her name is Picabo.

No offense, but I am actually one of those angry drivers that may have told you that you are #1 a couple of times. I was not aware that bicycling on the sidewalk was illegal. That seems kind of off to me. Now that I am informed I definitely have a new perspective on the situation.

I have no problem with cyclists who actually know how to behave in traffic. In this area, that means:

Stick to the bike lane or right-hand shoulder
Ride single-file if you're in a group
When making a left turn, either ride out into the left lane or left-turn lane and signal, or stop at the corner, dismount and walk the bike across.
Stop at all stop signs and red lights.

About 50 percent of bicyclists follow these rules; they sometimes fudge on the stoppin g at stop lights, but I'll grant them that if it is a moderately quiet intersection, if they slow to a walk before entering the intersection, are vigilant and ready to stop, and "take their turn" crossing the intersection according to vehicle code rules.

The other 50 percent -- they can't decide whether to act like cars or pedestrians. You don't know what they're going to do next. I have never run anybody off the road, but my car has been hit by bicyclists -- twice! One time, my car was at a complete stop. I think bicyclists need to pass a test if they're going to ride in heavy traffic, just like cars.

As for riding two-abreast, there's no excuse for that. When you're on a road, you have all the obligations of any vehicle, no matter what you're riding.

Bicycling on the sidewalk is _not_ illegal down here, unless posted. Some streets are so dangerous and have so little shoulder that it's only safe way to travel. But what _is_ dangerous are bikes who switch back and forth from sidewalk to street; again, as a motorist I have no idea what's going to happen next.

Rodney,
I would suggest that you assume the bike is coming into traffic. You may not think it is illegal to ride on the sidewalk, but riding a bike 20-25 mph is most certainly NOT safe on a sidewalk. If the person is cruising along at 5mph, then fine, but you cannot safely navigate concrete seams and ramps and pedestrians going better than 10 or 12mph.

I have no problem with bikes as long as they aren't on a road that has a parallel bike path right next to it. Then I get annoyed.

Also, the ones that ride against traffic are idiots, as are the ones that think because they're on a bike they don't have to obey traffic rules. The stop signs apply to them too, and it wouldn't hurt them, considering they're 100 pounds up against 2 tons of car, to signal what they were going to do from time to time ;)

While I agree that some roads aren't the best for bikes I also think motorists should take a minute to read their driver's manual. It clearly states that bikers have a right to a certain percentage - usually the right 1/3 - of the right lane of any road.

You might want to bone up on your rules.

A biker never has an obligation to walk a bike across a road. However, they are complete idiots if they don't use the bike lane when there is one!! Also, a biker doesn't need to ride on the shoulder. And check out my previous post here on who owns what portion of the road.

Sorry if I sound pissed, but you and every other know-it-all needs to spend a minute with your driver's handbook and make sure you are clear on what the rules are. I'd love to be able to take my manual with me and debate every driver that gives me crap on the road. I know and follow the rules because my safety is at stake. I just wish everyone would do the same.

And I agree with you 100% that bikers should follow all the rules.

Where do you live? Could it be, just possibly, that the rules in your state are different than the rules in others? As far as walking the bike across the road in a cross walk, I don't know if that is law or not. But that is the safest course on a street with extremely heavy traffic at a crossing with no stoplight, _if_ you haven't gotten your bike into position in the traffic flow (along with all the other cars) to make a left turn. Certainly, making a left turn directly from the bike lane across traffic is a good way to get a big article in tomorrow's paper with a headline beginning "Cyclist killed..."

I am a bicyclist and a motorist. I know what's going on out there. I know that it's tough for bicyclists. I also know that some bicyclists make a whole lot of their own trouble, sorry. Don't even get me started on Critical Mass.

And finally, the ultimate bicyclist slap-in-the-face to bike fanatics: some roads are just too dangerous to take your bike on, even if it's theoretically legal: no shoulder, heavy traffic, etc. I don't care what your legal rights are and how cars are oppressing you: if you go out on one of those killer streets, you're asking for it. ou're letting your sense of entitlement get in the way of your common sense. If you don't like it the way it is, lobby the city. And I don't know what it is about so many bicyclists -- too much testosterone, too much impatience, maybe you're as bad as the motorists you hate -- but stupid things are done on the road. And bicycle advocates never condemn the bad bike riders. You want some respect as a group, lobby to clean up the messes other bicyclists make. Then you'll have some more cred with the rest of is.

I've fucking had it with the cyclists in my town. I live in Fountain Hills, the one part of the Phoenix area with rolling hills and such. As a result, it's very popular for the Lance Armstrong wannabes and they ride around with their heads up their asses.

Since it is a popular area for them, the town put bike lanes on both sides of all the three big roads. Of course, they have a problem sticking in those lanes. Instead of staying close to the curb, or even in the middle or their lane they are always hugging the outside of the lane or they ride just inside my lane. The best is when 2 or three ride tandem in the lane. It's great when you are sandwiched between a huge SUV on the left and a cyclist encroaching on your lane on the right.

You are supposed to ride in the middle of the lane, not the lane markers. I'm sure they'd be tossing up their spandex-covered arms if I did that to them...

^ Oh yes. The tirade of the overwhelmed, put-upon motorist! The laments of only being able to use two of three available lanes for driving your car. Ah, the poor souls who have to drive their car slightly more slowly or with more caution when approaching a tax paying citizen on a bicycle. <End Sarcasm>

The cyclist can not be "doing" anything to you by riding next to the lane marker, inside your lane, or any other place on the road. You can see him as you approach, right? I am sure that you are aware that you have to yield to slower moving vehicles, right? Like it or not, bikes are vehicles.

I'm not trying to attack you personally. I just hope you would take the time to consider your driving habits and how they impact other people. I am not trying to start a flame war here, though I am sure that is where the thread is headed without a doubt.

All I ask is that they stay in their lane, not on the lane marker. I'm aware of them and try to give them space. I'm sure the cyclist would be pissed if I was driving in their lane.

One other thing: If it's a red light for us, it's a red light for you too. Nothing pisses me off more than cyclists running red lights.

what has been said...cyclists please follow all the rules. Decide whether you're a car or a pedestrian and stick to it.

In Portugal you get cyclists but I haven't really come across any who don't do the single-file thing. Portugal is pretty dangerous as far as driving is concerned.

I admit to getting annoyed when the road is extra-busy and a cyclist is making it slower...mainly because you don't really see people commuting on bikes exactly, they generally cycle for leisure only here. I suppose that's because our roads are extra narrow (an American friend of mine used to say the roads here are crazy). Now add to that the fact that on some of these extra tight roads people still think okay let's make a bike lane here and your car no longer even fits in a lane, well that leads to many problems with cyclists.

You also have to consider that because our roads have so much crap on the margins, those cyclists may be riding so close to the lane margins BECAUSE there is glass and tire debris and other hazardous stuff in their lane. I can't tell you how many times I have found everything from discarded construction nails to glass to cans and any other mess you can think of...oil spills, dead animals...ew. I can't ride over that and neither can they.

You are in an enclosed, air-conditioned vehicle...give those who aren't a bit of leeway. That person at the side of the road is somebody's son or daughter, brother or sister, mother or father. Treat them with the same respect you would if it was your kid on the side of the road.

That's fair, but keep in mind that rules and circumstances vary by location. In my part of the world, cyclists are all riding recreationally. They are not commuting anywhere, since the road in question doesn't go anywhere. People that reside up the canyon have no choice, but to drive a single lane windy road. Having your daily commute to work increase from 35 minutes to 90 because recreational cyclists feel they are above the law makes for a lot of road rage. Having them ride 2 and 3 across past the "single file" signs while flipping off people makes for even more.
For the most part, bicycle season coincides with motorcycle season. Most of my interaction with bicycles occurs while I am on a vehicle that is much quicker and more manuverable than any car. I have been hit twice in the last 6 years. Both times the bicyclist was at fault (as determined by the county sheriff). One bicyclist crossed the center line going downhill and clipped the back of my saddle bags. He apologized for loosing control and there was no damage to my bike. A sheriff witnessed the accident and offered to radio for an ambulance. No ticket was issued since there was no damage to my motorcycle. The other swerved wide as I passed him. and locked handlebars with me. Single file law states that he should have been within 1' of the right shoulder, my skid marks were within inches of the center line. He received a ticket and, I suspect, a bill from my insurance company. In either case, had I been driving a car, both would be dead.

Comfort really has nothing to do with legality. Common sense says that you always try to avoid an accident regardless of who is right or wrong. People that feel that they are above the law will find out that they are not. Hopefully, they will realize that in court rather than in a hospital.

This isn't a question of legality. It's a question of intelligence. If you have a bike lane available to you and you choose to ride in regular traffic lanes anyway, you are an idiot. End of story. Just because you legally can do something doesn't mean it's the smart thing to do. I can legally pour boiling water over myself, but that doesnt' mean I'd be wise to do it. Bikers who run around spouting the law as an excuse for their vacuous stupidity have no reason to complain when they get run over while exercising their legal rights.

What do you do when that bike lane is chock full of broken glass, rocks, and other refuse pushed there by the cars in the lane next to it?

this topic really gets me irritated:

what is it about being in a car that turns so many otherwise nice folk into dickheads?

i cycle in philadelphia almost year round, and have been nearly killed more times than i can count. narrow busy streets are one problem--but that's part of the game. what is more difficult--because so unpredictable--is the bizarre actions of drivers--running red lights (doing the "philly creep")--jamming you against the curb--throwing shit out of their cars--getting right behind you and gunning their engines, ha ha. busses that take you for a target. add to this horrible, ill-maintained bike lanes, full not only of garbage and glass but also potholes, debris from trying to fix potholes, etc. that force you out into traffic (and into the peril of trolley tracks)...all of which would be fine if people driving cars did not become such jerks so often, simply because they are in a huge metal box and so think they have no contact with (and hence no responsibility for) who and what is around them.

in a better world, there would be no automobile traffic in cities.

Nope, they get their own full lane, just like a car does. There's no such thing as a "bike lane" in CT. I'm overweight and out of shape and even I can manage to go 10 over the speed limit on flat ground.

I hate it when cyclers ride too fucking close to traffic. I just switch lanes to avoid the possibility of a freak accident. Other than that, no complaints.

1) not all bike lanes are full of trash
2) you complain to the street department.
3) what about the bike lanes that are set back from the road like a sidewalk, are totally clear, have nothing in them, and yet the bikers still insist on riding on the street at the risk of their own safety? It doesn't make sense?
4) What about the bikers who insist on riding on the wrong side of the road? Or the ones that run lights/stop signs? Bikers aren't exactly innocent in this debate. Most of the people I see on the roads who are riding bikes make the streets more dangerous for everyone - and before you think I'm attacking bikers only, I'm not. It's the same with cars, the majority of drivers suck also.

As I said, just because it's legal doesn't mean it's smart. If you have a bike path available to you, then use it. If you don't, hug the shoulder. 99% of the drivers out there don't give a crap if you have the right to hog the entire lane or not, and they've got at least 1,800 pounds on you. Move out of the way.

Hug the shoulder? You mean the gutter. You can't ride across the gutter, they are drainage ditches with grates that'll flip you off the bike. Ever ridden a bike on a street? Sidewalks are out of the question because it is, 1) usually against the law, and 2) you can't safely ride 20 mph over concrete slabs.
Cyclists pay taxes and are entitled to ride on the same road you do. The extra 10-15 seconds or even minute it takes you take to carefully get around them is not grounds to get all huffy about YOUR car's domain.
The ones who ride the wrong way or disobey traffic laws are NOT cyclists, but just dumb people on bikes. Cyclists are people who wear the right gear and obey the laws. Problem is, you group them all together as one and treat all the same. These are human lives we are talking about. I don't give a damn if dealing with cyclists takes you extra time. Killing or injuring somebody is a far more important issue.

I'm a cyclist and I've been hit by a car twice, run off the road once, and yelled/honked at many many times. What I dont get is: why dont people realize that they are putting mine (or other cyclist's) lives in danger because of something that might make them, at most, one minute late. Whenever I'm driving I ALWAYS give both bikers and cyclists as much room as they need while staying out of their blind spots. It's really not a hard thing to do. Sadly, here in Atlanta, I've read stats that said that in 2003 200 bikers/cyclists were killed. That just sucks!

....when i was 16 i got hit in he back of the head by soccer ball from a car that was doing sixty. the kicker is that whoever did it missed the first time circled around picked up the ball and proceded to try and get me again.

Needless to say the ball bounced off my head and rolled into someones yard ( and i was on the sidewalk 10:00 @ night ) funny thing is it didnt hurt, but it pissed me off. the person behind them stopped and asked if i was okay.

and on top of that they circled the block again and wanted to "give me a beat down"

it didnt go down like that i started cutting through peoples yards....but god that sucks



also got hit in the back with change before

also hit by the same person 2 times

What happened to bike lanes?

My main concern is when cyclists (or any vehicle for that matter) do not stop at traffic lights or stop signs. I also worry that the cyclist will swerve into me, especially going uphill I've notice how cyclists struggle and they sort of swerve and stuff. All this is made worse when they are side by side chatting or listening to their walkman.

Also, cyclists have an additional hazard of parked cars, opening doors etc. They really need their own lane. In Boston, there is the Minuteman Commuter Bikeway that extends from Bedford all the way into Cambridge (Alewife Station). I think it's like 8 miles or something but it's awesome and safe.

Bicycles, skateboards, rollerbladers should not be on sidewalks either, way too dangerous. Most users cannot control themselves adequately. Way too many close calls with the above and my pregnat wife (who is not swerving walking on the sidewalk) and the stroller.

Maybe cyclists should have to get a license like car drivers do. That may help with general safety and traffic law issues. The rest is common sense.

Share the road.

There are actually tests you can do over here to certify your at a road worthy standard of cycling (i've done them, it's not that hard, but they would certainly help some people), of course they're not required by law, so practically no-one does them, and i admit i did them when i was a lot younger.

Unfortunatly, common sense just isn't that...common these days, if it was, we'd all be much richer.

The problem, as I see it as a cyclist, is not necessarily all about the cyclists, but rather the motorists who don't know the law and are too self-centered to be concerned about another person trying to make their way.

Cyclists, on their worst days are more aware of the road and conditions than most motorists on their best days. I am talking about cyclists now, not douchebags on bikes who run lights and wear walkmans (illegal and stupid).

My point is that it takes SO LITTLE EFFORT, on a motorists part, to be aware of cyclists and give them some leeway. We ARE one less car in front of you, one less gas guzzler, one less polluter...give us a break.

No, I do not mean the gutter, I mean the shoulder. I'm tired of seeing bikers sit in the middle of a lane doing 8mph on a 45mph boulevard when there's a perfectly good breakdown lane, or even just the frikkin' side of the right lane, that they can ride in. As I've said before, the law does not give you an excuse to be an idiot.

And I'm not advocating riding on side WALKS. But when there's a paved asphalt path next to the road that has pictures of bikes painted on it and has green signs with pictures of bikes on them and has signs that say "bike path" on them, that's a pretty good hint that bikes are encouraged to be on the path. And when there IS such a path, and the biker is fucking around in the middle of the street, then he's an idiot. Plain and simple.

No, GOOD cyclists are people who wear the right gear and obey the laws. And I haven't complained about GOOD cyclists. I've only complained about the idiots.

You did that for me by insinuating that I have a gripe with good cyclists.


You really don't get me. When did I ever say I try to kill people on bicycles? Actually it's for their own safety that I wish they'd start acting intelligent. Whether the law allows it or not, dicking around in traffic that's going ten times faster than you and that weighs about 2,000 pounds more than you is asking for Darwin to come knocking at your door, especially if there are viable alternatives available to you that you don't take because you insist on enforcing the "law."

Well, that depends what you call a viable alternative. If they are training, those "bike lanes" off the road may not be safe...but I'm making assumptions about bike lanes I am unfamiliar with. But, in my experience, some of those bike causeways are twisty and meandering and unfit for 20mph or greater speeds (and cyclists are easily capable of those speeds) :) .

I DO understand your gripe about the idiot bike riders, as I have the same gripe.

It was not my intention to attack you, but rather to bring the same concerns from a cyclist's perspective. Instead of calling in Darwin, I guess I'm just looking for a "they might be in the wrong, but I'm careful around them anyway," type attitude.

I have been hassled, yelled at, had things thrown at me, run off the road, dragged by a bus, threatened by a driver using her car as her weapon , threatened by the lazy police force (same bus incident), clipped by a car to fall on the one in front only to have the driver drive away, encroached upon in my lane...so maybe you can appreciate the animosity I feel on the subject.

I can't believe this thread is still breathing. When I started it I expected a goodly amount of replies but thought it would die a clean and early death. Its been interesting seeing both sides of the coin. As I expected coming from an enlightened forum such as this is most replies were reasonable. It's reasonable for drivers to be upset at bike riders that run red lights, ride muliti-bike abreast, don't signal turns or lane changes and generally behave like idiots. I also expected to hear from a cyclists that have been harrased by drivers for no good reason. I think the key is education and public awareness. Both driver's and cyclists need to be fully aware of the laws in their area regarding the road. As a general rule, cyclists may NOT ride on sidewalks nor are they required to ride on the shoulder. A cyclist must obey the same regulations as motor vehicles. A cyclist must ride WITH the flow of traffic and not against it. If a cyclist doesn't follow basic safety rules then said cyclist mucks it up for all of us and shouldn't be surprised if they are accidently hit. Drivers should as a rule actually pay attention when they drive. Use turn signals religiously, don't chatter on cell phones and consider piloting their vehicles from time to time as opposed to just riding behind the steering wheel. Bottom line BOTH forms of transportation have every legal right to the road.

I ride my cycle on the road almost every day and have never had any problems. I always try to give bikers a little extra room.

I'm not talking about the bike trails. I'm talking about the bike paths that parallel the road. In other words, the bike path only curves if the road curves. It's asphalt, just like the road, and follows the same path as the road, but it's set back from the road 3 to 5 feet, so it separates the bikers from the cars. Where I live anyway, they have a little street sweeper that cleans the paths. They clean the paths more often than they clean the roads. These things are freaking awesome, and I'm just about the only cyclist I ever see on them. Just about everyone else is out in the road, weaving and wobbling around at about 8mph while traffic tries to avoid them. It's insane!

You've found it in me then ;) I'll bitch about 'em on here, but I'm still very careful when passing them. That doesn't mean I'm thrilled when one of them weaves in front of my car 'cause he's busy looking over his shoulder at his girlfriend, but. . .



Course I can. I've had similar things happen to me, which is why I REALLY advocate staying on the damn bike paths when they're available. I don't like getting run down, and I figure that's less likely to happen if I'm off on the bike path.

If there is no bike path, then absolutely the biker is doing nothing wrong by riding on the road, provided he does it in a smart way. The ones that weave all over the lane because they can't ride a bike in a straight line should get off the street until they learn how a bicycle operates, and so forth.

But as I've said, if the cyclist is competent, and isn't unnecessarilly obstructing other traffic (keep in mind that if I start driving 8mph and weaving all over in my car, the cops will nab me too) then there's nothing wrong with him being on the road.





I am going to steal that line. My sentiments EXACTLY, and not just regarding the bike issue.

I live in Davis, CA aka Bicycle City USA. We have more bikes than people. The town has many bike paths off the main roads but people still ride their bikes on the road along with cars. Which scares me a lot, cyclist have no protection at all what so ever. I think cyclist should ride on their on lanes or path.

i personally thing they should make new rules to bikes. I believe that during rush hour times cyclists should stay off the road for safty reasons for them and others, but i know this is really unfare but they can be very hazardous when busy, and if u get hit while on a bike, theres not much protecting you.