Manic_Skafe

I'm considering having atleast one of my arms either full sleeve or 1/2 sleeve tatooed and after talking it over with some worry-worts I figured giving more effort into finding out the dangers of having this area tatooed. Now I've got a fairly muscular arm so I'm not really worried about it except the area on the back-side of the wrist where you can see the veins and things that give me control over using my hand/arm.

I understand that there's an evident risk in getting anything tatooed and I doubt I'd get it done if there were a high probablilty of loosing even a fraction of use of my arm/hand so any input would be appreciated. Heard of any freak accidents? Links? Anything?

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st33lr4t

just do it.

Deadmemory

as long as everything is sterile there are no other dangers to tattoos. ie. they wont mess up your veins or anything. you can be tattooed anywhere. some areas are just more painful than others. you will be sore for a while. i suggest you look into it and learn a lot more and think about what you want a lot more before starting a sleeve. go to bmezine.com.

Willravel

So far no. Look for some kind of certification, if there is such a thing. Go to a place with a good reputation. If you see a lot of bikers, go ahead. 99 times out of 100 they know where the best places for, not only for quality, but safety.
On a slightly different note, I make it a personal rule not to get a tat bigger than my hand. But that's just me.

pedro padilla

arm sleeve? don´t you think full face and neck would make a more powerful statement? think maori.

Cowman

Personally I think if you can't spell tattoo you probably shouldn't get one, much less one that covers half of your arm.

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Manic_Skafe

The full sleeve was just an idea I was throwing around for quite some time - I've made no conrete plans and only created this thread in order to get the most information on it as possible. Thanks for all the input.

I'd suggest you'd see what it feels like posting on less than 3 hours of sleep on a nightly basis but you'd probably be too busy with your incredibly flat posts that fail to insult simply because they're devoid of anything remotely humorous and/or entertaining.

A moment such as this deserves a pat on the back - reward yourself.

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Rdr4evr

Man, grammar police are popping up more and more everyday....quite annoying.

00111000

Unless you're gonna get inked down at the docks by Handsome Pete you should be ok. Look at all the shops in your area and you'll find a reputable artist. Your profile says NY..there is an assload of good shops probaly within 2 hours of you. Get out there and talk to an artist about what you want and you'll be stoked once it is done.

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Halx

you're not gonna get the tattoo done in one session, that's for sure.

Take the time to find an artist who knows their shit. Dont have a friend do it. Don't pick the most local guy possible. If you have to drive 2 hours to your appointment, do it. Just make sure you pick the right person.

Start with a central design - something that you KNOW YOU REALLY WANT. Get that done on the first day. Experience the pain. Wait a while and let it grow on you. Keep in mind, you're STUCK with it. Once you are comfortable with it and still desire a whole sleeve, schedule about 3 or 4 more trips. If you're a tattoo rookie, you cannot hope to have a complete sleeve done in anything less.

Eat a full meal on the day that you get a tattoo and eat a candybar right beforehand. You lose a lot of stamina with that needle at you constantly. Your endorphins are gonna be shot.

That's the basic outline.

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Lunchbox7

1 tattoo will give you a greater chance of cancer of the skin and blood than an entire lifetime in the sun without sunscrean. Remember ink is not a natural substance in your body sso it reacts to it like a poison. It gets into your blood and toxifies it and is transported to everything else. Naturally it sits in your skin which interferes with your skins natural methods of regeneration. Getting a tat isnt just a choice of whether you want to wear it for life but are you prepared to accept the consequences of your action in all its forms.

xepherys

Do you have some medical background for this? I don't believe this for a variety of reasons:

a) There are a ton of things in your body right now that are not "natural" to it. Do you drink pop (soda)? You don't think all of that caramel coloring is bad for your stomach? It stains it. It's "unnatural" and therefore toxic? Toxic is not ANYTHING unnatural. That's a misled definition.

b) How does it toxify your blood? Tattoo artists... in the US at least, use NON-TOXIC ink. If it's non-toxic, how does it become toxic? Citric acid is toxic to your body, but oranges and lemons aren't "bad" for you. *boggle*

I'm curious how people come up with these facts. Then again, the internet helps that a lot. Some anti-tat quack (or any other type of quack) makes a "professional statement" and it suddenly becomes fact. Curious...

Sty

FUD. Tattooed areas are less likely to get skin cancer or any other skin-related diseases. In the direct sunlight, the tattoo gets slightly warmer than the untoched skin but that's fraction of a centigrade that we're talking here.

Sunscreen is mandatory for the time it's healing if you really have to walk in the sun with the tattoo exposed. It's recommended to use it month or two after healing when in direct sunlight but after that just use the sunscreen normally when you would put it on anyways.

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Kingpin_in_OT

Hey there,

I've got a sleeve on my left arm, elbow to wrist. Here's a few things I've been told
1. Pick a design and stick with the SAME idea for at least a year, then if it hasn't changed - go for it.
2. The arm, well there are a few moments of pain/uncomfortable feeling. Basically the entire time the needle goes over the inside of your arm especially the part near the elbow and wrist. Masochists may disagree, but you won't be laughing. Although eventually you go numb a bit and it isn't quite so bad.
3. Healing, that's a lot of work and a lot time. It will take a few trips as one person has already mentioned and if you have the time and cash (here in Canada they are not cheap, especially for the amount of work a sleeve requires). You might feel a bit foolish with a half finished piece if you can't afford to finish.
4. On that, spend the money for a good job. It's bloody permanent, excuse the pun.

That's about it for my two cents.

Cheers

Lunchbox7

The first thing I will say is if you dont believe me then consult the medical reseaarch literature. It will back up what I said.

Your first point about unatural equalling poison is premature. Just because something is unatural doesnt mean its unhealthy just the same as a natural thing isnt necessarily healthy. All you example have to do with the digestive system. First of all the digestive system has inbuilt defensive mechanisms to help protect the body from ingested poisons. This can be through taste (most poisons taste bitter which is why most people dont like that taste) to the body realising it isnt right and flushing it right through the system whilst digesting it at a minimum amount. The stomache also has an abumndance of industrial stregnth acids to break everything down with which can be used to hopefully limit the effectiveness of ingested poisons. Further more the body once senses a poison in the system launches its immune system into full affect trying to combat the effects. This can mean vomiting or increasing heart rate (oxygen counteracts almost every natural poison) or even just trying to fight the actual poison like any other foreign matter. The skin doesnt have such defences. After all the skin is the bodys first defence against infection. The blood has limited defence because the immune system can help it by sending more white blood cells (to fight it) ,clotting and restricting the valves (slow down the spread of the poison). Even whilst using "non toxic ink" the body still interprets this as a foreign element in the system ande attempts to get rid of it. Further more something is toxic when it is a foregn element in the body which harms the systems. Ink is a foregn substance in the skin and blood. It does significantly increas the chance of getting various forms of cancer and it does disrupt the normal functioning of the body because of the supposed threat. That means the ink from a tatto is toxic. The body does what ever it takes to survive. The way people come up with these "facts"(as you put it) is by doing empiracle research and then having it peer reviewed from publication in an accademic journal. If something is a 'quack result' then it will be refuted by the bulk of corresponding literature in the accademic circles. Do the research and get back to me.

Lunchbox7

You dont get skin cancer from the warmth of the sun. You get it because the sunlight breaks down the cells in the skin. The skin must therefore always replenish the number of cells through replication. The more exposure to the sun you have the more cells get destroyed and the more cellls get replicated. For every replication of a cell there is a chance of an error being made where a dud cell gets created. This is call cancer. If this cell still has the ability to replicate then this cancer can spread to the point where it becomes malignant (death). There are three different types of skin cancer and less than 0.01% of them are malignant. This is due to several reasons. The cancer has to get pretty bad to kill. Early detection measures mean that you can treat or get rid of it before it becomes malignant. Or prevention through the use of sunscrean, hats and shirts etc (slip,slop slap, wrap health promotion initiative).

Sty

Lunchbox7: Now before this thread is closed because of spreading FUD, would you please give some URL's to back up your story? And I'd like to see the articles in some peer reviewed journals that have some impact factor.

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Lunchbox7

My hat goes of to Manic_Skafe for actually considering all possibilities before committing to such a permamnet procedure as a tatoo. If he/she considers all the info and still decids to go ahead with it then they will go into it with their eyes open. It means they can accept the consequences of their action/inactions whatever that may be. I respect that. What I dont like is when people susbscribe to popular culture for the fashion of it and then refute any arguement which may not conform to their ideals. I dont like it when people say "I want a tat" for fashion reasons (fashion changes from season to season but a tat stays fro ever) so they walk into a tatoo parlour and choose one willy nilly off the wall. They make a life time commitment in the span of a few minutes thought. I can respect people who get a tat for some reason of significance (religous, cultural or philosophical reasons). Those things show a large part of who that person is and rarely changes with the season. Im not anti tatoo. I have on occasion considered getting one myself but after consideration I decoded not to. Thats my choice just as anyone who chooses to get one is the result of their choice. I just think people should actually consider what they are doing first like Manic_Skafe did.

xepherys

a) Empirical research would prove to one that any body foreign to our own is not nessecarily considered a threat. An IV is not considered a threat. In fact, most inorganics (glass, many metals, et cetera) are not perceived by the body much at all. Making such a broad statement is not useful because it is incorrect.

b) Your fact stating, "1 tattoo will give you a greater chance of cancer of the skin and blood than an entire lifetime in the sun without sunscrean"... do you have a link? Anything that backs this statement up? Preferably something from a medical journal rather than www . ihatetats . net.

c) Yes, my previous examples were digestive... it's what I had off the top of my head. Your arguments against mine are, however, not wholly correct. While the digestive system DOES have a great deal of protective measures, one can still die from sometimes a very SMALL amount of a truly toxic substance, like DEG (Diethylene Glycol, commonly used as anti-freeze).

d) On your behalf, I found this article. It discusses and outlines a few pigment colors, what commonly goes into them, and what some of the potential risks are. Don't mistake what I'm saying here.... ANYTHING can be risky. Getting a simple ear piercing could potentially lead to death (via infections and the like). Caution is always warranted, but paranoia is generally not.

e) Read this before anyone makes a decision. This article pertains to what we are discussing, but the whole site has a slew of good information.


Once again, I would not argue that tattoos are 100% safe 100% of the time. If you go to a reputable "ink slinger" who has been around a while, chances are bad inks would've closed them long ago. Certain colors are better than others. Reds are a possible issue. If you REALLY want reds, talk to your artist. If they refuse to tell you what's in it, go somewhere else. It's an open market after all.





*EDIT for spelling

combatmedicjen

Lunchbox7, your posts entertain me.

Here are some of my favorite parts...

OK, and the food and liquid in your digestive system doesn't enter your bloodstream? The contents of your digestive system are imported directly into your bloodstream in some way/shape/form, and are spread to vital organs... that's the whole POINT of the digestive system... Injections do enter the bloodstream faster (that's why we have IV's), but something ingested will eventually get into your bloodstream, as well. Just different methods of administration.


Duh. There isn't much of anything you can inject into the skin and have it be well received -- even helpful intradermal injections like the Tuberculosis test and allergy tests. How is tattoo ink, which is injected into the same area of the skin, different from either of those tests? I think I'd rather have ink injected into me than TB antibodies or allergens.

EVERYTHING is a foreign substance when shoved INTO your skin, and DUH your body will reject it. But why on earth do you think that tattoo ink, specifically, causes cancer? By your reasoning, this also means that every little sliver you've ever failed to remove, and every little grain of sand left over in your knee when you scraped it as a child will GIVE YOU CANCER!! If this were true, we'd all be dead! Dead dead dead!

"RIP Little Johnny. He had too many toxic slivers and died of skin cancer."

Har har har... why don't YOU do some reasearch and show US your "credible literature" backing up your theories? As someone with a medical background I am thoroughly intrigued by your theories, which are so "out there" that I literally did laugh when I read the post. As soon as you give me credible proof with cross-references, which I'm quite sure don't exist, I shall apologize and accept the fact that I will die of cancer because of the toxic non-toxic ink from my five tattoos. And that piece of toxic popcorn stuck in my teeth. Damn the popcorn.

Manic_Skafe -- good luck with the tattoo! I love each and every one of mine and wouldn't trade them for anything! I've never had a single problem with sensation or anything with any of my tattoos. As long as you have a certified, credible tattoo artist you don't have to worry about a thing. Tendons/ligaments/muscle/veins are too deep for a seasoned artist to hit. Get a newbie, however... well, that's a different story!:P

True, there are risks involved (as with everything in life!), but as long as you research your tattoo artist and make sure you have a design that you will be happy with for the rest of your natural life, you should just do it!!

And there's always laser tattoo removal

Sty

Lunchbox7:

Wellwellwell. Since I work for Riken Brain Science Institute, I have full access to every medical journal imaginable that is searchable in the scientific search engines we daily use. I just went thru with my fellow post-doc's a huge load of PEER REVIEWED ARTICLES and we could not find ANY articles regarding cancers, especially melanoma, ink toxicity, pigment toxicity in tattoos.

There was a load of articles of positive uses of tattoos to mark cancers for surgery, using the inks to color the cells to see if they're spreading. We found one article where the abstract told that there's been 7 documented cases of melanoma forming in tattoo in Great Britain. Seven. That's all. You realize how insignificant this is regarding all the cases of melanoma in GB thru all time, even if you only count in people with tattoos?

Discussion:
Your allegations are bullshit. You're spreading FUD (Fear, Uncertainity and Doubt) which is harming people trying to make decisions that most likely last on their skins for the rest of their lives. Hence, I'm closing the thread.

PS.
Manic_Skafe: Please, take great care choosing your artist. Check that he has autoclave and that he's using it. if not, change the artist. Never accept a needle that has been used before. If the artists doesn't discard the needles after use, discard the artist. My artist breaks the needles immediatelly after use in front of my eyes and cleans every piece of equipment in autoclave. Wears protective clothing and generally is very careful.

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