Need some free advice on young adult at home
 

I’m in need of fresh perspective, so please weigh in no matter which demographics you fill. I realize that the average TFP age probably falls at about 30ish, but I’d like to hear thoughts from different angles to help me formulate a favorable conclusion for all.

My middle daughter turned 18 this summer. She’ll be starting community college in January with hopes of a direct-connect transfer to UCF within a year or two. Between a scholarship and Pell Grant, everything’s covered. She began a part-time position for minimum wage (her first job) about three weeks ago and was lucky enough to have an aunt that sent her a car when she was ready for a new one. Oh, and she has a boyfriend she’s been dating exclusively for over a year who attends UCF and lives in a dorm there.

I’d like to hear opinions about restrictions and rules. Up until now, she’s abided by my unspoken rules. She’s kept up with curfews set and does a fair job of her expected chores at home. We’ve made an agreement that she’ll hand over about 25% of her monthly income and I’m trying to pin her down to save 50% but would probably be happy if she saves 25%. It’s too easy for her to “need” another pair of boots or the perfect fashion accessory. On the other hand, she knew I was in dire straits this month and handed over her full first two weeks paycheck. When I told her I’d pay her back when I get paid on Friday, she told me not to worry about it. Yes, she’s pretty awesome.

We’ve agreed on a weekend curfew time, but my issue is with weekdays. Hopefully, I’m not just trying to keep her home but I feel she needs some time with her younger sister (17) who’s a junior in high school. They’ve been super tight all these years and although I do see moments of bonding and confidence, they’re not as frequent as they once were. Yes, I’m eager for them to keep the relationship for themselves but also, selfishly, it gives me great joy to see the interaction. When I asked her to be home at 10:00 last evening, she was disappointed and texted me that “I thought you said things were going to change now that I’m showing responsibility and accountability.”

I’m usually decisive when it comes to the girls, but can’t help questioning myself. Am I being unreasonable? Of course, I have the authority to set the rules, but I want to be fair. My younger daughter is still a consideration in all of my decisions. Even if she were paying half the rent, I wouldn’t feel differently. Should I back out of pushing their relationship? Do I have a hidden agenda I can’t see, or is it perfectly reasonable to set rules that work for me?

I’m also well aware that “most” kids of her age probably do whatever the hell they want and that I’m fortunate that my daughter will abide (begrudgingly or not) by the rules I set, but I also want to let her flutter her wings so that she will be able to fly when she's ready.

Thoughts? Advice?

unfortunately collegs is going to change her. You'll need to realize that she is closing in on adulthood and certain changes are going to come about. I'm not saying you shouldn't be concerned if she's out until 2:00am on a wednesday, but that's college. She is coming into her own at a very exciting time in her life and tryingn to hold her back will just make things worse. Best bet is to trust that you have raised her right, and that she is a responsible young adult(as she seems to be from what I've read).

Yes, in my view.

Yes, it is part of being 18 and starting a more independent life. You can hope that they remain close, but pushing will do not likely work any better than letting it happen naturally.

I think you see it. The rules should also work for your daughter. It must be a tough time for you. I also have daughters and I predict it will be difficult for me to change the rules.

There would have been no way I would of been able to complete college if I had to be home by 10pm.

In essence, I believe you're implying that I'm having difficulty letting her go? This may be, as she's brand new to The World and I think it's more that I feel the need to protect her (i.e. drunk drivers out there, getting lost in a new area, etc.). Hopefully, this is somewhat natural. But she does ask me what time she has to be home. Would you suggest I ask her what she thinks is reasonable, or just tell her that there isn't a curfew?

Each family is different. As a college student I stayed at home. I lived within a fairly loose set of unwritten rules - general respect type stuff really. I did not have a specific time to be in the house though, and I was away for lots of weekends on music playing road trips, or camping trips.

My son is 18 now and in college. He is starting by attending the college I work in, so we carpool at the moment. He is actually probably willing to continue as is, but I am working on helping him become more independent. (is that an oxymoron?).

Things that work for some families may not for yours. Communication with her would be key, and keeping things somewhat flexible if need be. In the end, it is your house, and all people within it need to be within a minimal guideline.

Yes, that is my guess and I agree it is natural.

Yes, I would discuss it with her and arrive at a compromise to give her some control over the final outcome. I would explain your concerns (e.g. drunk drivers) and hope that she can see your point of view.

I never had a curfew, but I was raised to be aware of the dangers in the world. When I was at college, I would often stay out late, but I took actions that kept me safe. I think the key is open communication and to have an understanding of her new life situation from her point of view.

At 18, she can tell you to f off and move out. I'd keep the rules minimal.

When my daughters were 18, I locked and chained the doors at 11 on weekdays. No curfew, no rules, but if you weren't home by 11 it was going to be a big hairy deal getting in.

My 2 daughters couldn't be more different. They are sisters and generally get along; but they will never be friends. Nothing you do is going to influence that.

You're certainly entitled to negotiate rent and chores; after that, her money is none of your business. Most of us need to make a few crappy financial decisions until we figure out budgeting. Better she make her mistakes sooner, than later when the stakes are higher.

I have to agree with Stan, at 18 she's under no obligation to live at home and any strict rules may only serve to drive her out. Keep it simple, obviously rules that keep the house functioning and livable are a must but past that maybe charge her rent and let her come and go as she pleases.

I moved out the day after I graduated high school and of course once I did my parents made perfectly clear that I was more or less on my own, I was an adult and was responsible for myself. Sure I fucked up left and right but learning to deal with and clean up my own messes really did a lot to shape me into a responsible adult. By the time I got to college at 20 I was appalled by how many of my peers still lived at home, had curfews/rules and relied on Mom and Dad for everything, no self reliance what so ever...

...I have no idea where I'm going with that but I always felt like it was an awkward step to take on the road to adulthood.

Anyway everybody is different but always remember she's an adult now and should be entitled to make her own decisions and mistakes.

You just sound like a concerned parent and a little unwilling to let loose the apron strings.

Having never raised a child I can only give you what my parents gave me. My mother was the reasonable one, my stepdad thought he was a Marine drill Sargent. We didn't get along very well, but we had mutual respect. My brother, a year younger than me, was like a chain around my ankle through most of my youth. If I was doing something (which I usually was), and he wasn't, then I always had to take him with me. We had completely different interests, so neither of us enjoyed this very much. As a result, it wasn't until we were in our late 20's or 30's that we became friends. Now he's one of my best friends. But that relationship had to happen on it's own, not dictated by our parents. The more they tried to put us together, the less we liked each other. We gained respect for each other only after having been apart for a few years and coming into our own in life. Our friendship grew from there.

Once I was in my teens, curfew was 10 weekdays, midnight weekends unless otherwise arranged. Then after a few, shall we say unacceptable incidents, the rules changed. Instead of tougher rules and earlier curfews, my parent took another direction, let him learn consequences. I had no curfew, but if I got into trouble, I had to get myself out of trouble. Best thing that ever happened to me. I'm not saying I didn't get into anymore trouble, but I learned really quick that there are consequences to my actions. Which daily, to this day, serves my best interests.

What I found was living by 'my' rules, made everything my fault, good or bad. I had no one else to blame or credit for what happened. The consequences are all mine and it was my first real step into adulthood. When I got an 'A' it was all me and taught me I could do anything I wanted if I put the effort in. If I failed, it was all mine because I didn't try hard enough. I took that step when I was 14. By the time I was 18, I lived on my own, had bought my first car and had several jobs under my belt. I did not walk into the world 'Naked' out of high school.

I think it also helped my relationship with my parents. When I was 16 I had a few run-ins with the law. When I called from jail, it was to let my parents know where I was and that I was ok. Not for them to bail me out. That may sound extreme, but you would be surprised at just how easy it is to end up in jail. Like, telling a cop he's a Dick. :shakehead: That doesn't work out very well. Instead of being mad, they thanked me for the call and asked what they could do to help. This was a complete 180 from the first couple of times I got in trouble.

That independence and freedom to grow and learn has been invaluable to me through out my life. I'm stronger, smarter and better prepared for any situation that may arise. It taught me to think on my feet and relish new experiences.

I could go on, but you don't need my life history.

TL;TR: Give her, her freedom and she will blossom. Tie her down and she will forever be someones anchor (not in a good way).




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What do you think would happen if you went hands-off and let her do what she pleases?

I briefly lived with my aunt and my dad/stepmom during my first stint in college. I had to pay rent and help with chores, but I did not have curfews. Granted, they wouldn't have worked for me because I frequently didn't get off work until midnight and I also had evening classes than ran until 10 pm. That said, it was wonderful to come and go as I pleased, but I also learned that making unwise decisions had consequences. I learned real fast that staying up late and going to class half asleep was a good way to get a bad grade on a test. I also learned that staying up late and having to be at work early the next morning really, really sucks.

Your elder daughter isn't going to be home forever. It will probably be tough on your other daughter; it was tough on me when my brother left for college and we didn't even get along that well. Growing up and moving away (figuratively and physically) from your family is part of becoming an adult. My son is only 8 and I'm betting I'll have a hard time letting him go, but I also know the value of letting him make his own decisions and facing the consequences of them. Should he choose to go to school nearby and stay at home, I don't think we'll set any curfews. Just my .02.

I would extend it to midnight. 10 PM is too early. Sounds like you have a good daughter on your hands. Reward her until she starts screwing you over.

Stan's got some good advice, and it's similar to what my parents did with me when I was home during summer/breaks during college. On weekends, the rule was extended to: "The car needs to be in the driveway by the time Dad goes to get the paper in the morning (5am)."

Your daughter sounds like a very mature girl, and you sound like a worried parent who's baby girl is spreading her wings more than you are comfortable with.

Clearly, you have done an excellent job as a parent.

I have a suggestion for you. Get yourself someplace quiet, and figure out what is making you a wee bit scared. Then sit down with your daughter and talk through it.

Tell her your concerns, and while you realize she is very mature, she is also just 18 and still needs guidance from time to time. Tell you you don't want to be over-protective, but you fear (whatever it is you fear) and that you want the best for her, so ask her how she might solve the problem.

She might say "2 am is reasonable" and you can respond "no, and here's why..."

I am willing to bet you can arrive at a set of guidelines that work for both of you, something she is more likely to follow, and something that you can live with, even if you are not entirely comfortable.

And the dialog itself will send the message "Yes, things have changed now that you are 18."

I've raised 4, and at this age you have to find the balance between diplomacy and discipline that lets them remember that you are someone they can come to to talk things out, even if you won't solve the problem for them. It's the toughest job in the world, raising kids. It's also the best job in the world. Go figure.

Based on your OP, I think you're a great parent. You're daughter's behavior says it all.

Full disclosure: I'm 50, a senior executive, 4 kids from 2 to 22. Dunno if I'm the typical TFP'er or not, but that might help you grok my answer a bit better.

I have two daughters that were very close, too. They drifted apart and back several times just because of timing, friends, interests, etc. Now they are both grown and living separately, but still close. Perhaps it's alright if you just let them work it out in their own time. They'll be ok.

As for the 10pm curfew, whoa. I wouldn't stand for that. You probably wouldn't either, you know, think about it. It'd be different if she were out of control, but she sounds like a model daughter. It also sounds like she might compromise and agree to get in early one weeknight per week.

And congratulations for having an awesome daughter. I know it feels good.

When I was 18, the rule in my house wasn't dead set, but you were expected to at least give the folks an estimated return time.

With classes, I often stayed and studied afterwards so if I had a night class that didn't get out till 9, it might not even be 11 before I was thinking about heading home.

At some point you have to trust that you've done a good job all these years and give her a chance to try things on her own, with your confidence behind her.

In my parents house, you could live at home rent free if you were going to college and doing well. If you decided not to go or were wasting your time, you were then expected to pay rent or move out.

My opinion is that she's now an adult, and that you, as a parent, should no longer be setting rules for her. She's responsible for herself now.

However, if she's still going to be living under your roof, obviously there have to be rules, or an understanding between you about her behavior...but I think those rules should center around not disturbing the functioning of the house, not breaking the law, etc.

I think it's great that your daughter is such a mature and caring person, and that you're thinking about how to work this out with her. So my advice is...just talk to her, and work out the ground rules.

FWIW, I have four under-18 kids of my own, and I think I'll still have the same opinion when they turn 18.

If my mom had a reason for me to be home early (and since I'm living at home now, sometimes she still does), I would usually respect that. But otherwise, no curfew - but let my mom know if I won't be home at all (by a reasonable hour, usually 10 pm) and respect quiet hours. Coming home at midnight means coming home at midnight and quietly getting ready for bed, not coming home at midnight and having friends over playing video games until 2 am. Quiet hours might be better than a curfew, and that's what she'll have to get used to in a dorm.

As for making her spend time with her sister.. you can't, really. You can let her know that her sister misses her, or have her sister tell her that herself.. but otherwise, you can really just ask that she be home for X family activity at Y time or let her make her own decisions. It's likely that given enough freedom, she'll go a little overboard at first but settle into a good routine that makes both of you happy. It's also likely that she'll WANT to spend time at home if she doesn't feel restricted - if she's constantly worrying about a curfew or you being annoyed with her, she's not going to feel as happy or welcome at home and will likely spend as much time as possible elsewhere.

What kind of hours is she working? I think as long as she's not missing work and does well in her classes when she starts them, you might as well be as hands-off as possible and talk to her about what's going on and how she feels about her schedule when you get the chance. If you have raised her well to this point and you make time to communicate with her solidly most days, you will be able to head off any issues before they arise, most likely.

I raised two girls, but they were six years apart. I had to explain to my younger one that her sister was older and got different privileges than she did. While it was hard to watch my younger one sit home alone and miss her sister I couldn't tell my oldest she had to stay home because her little sister couldn't be out late.

If your only reason for wanting her home by ten is so that she spends time with her sister then yes, you're being unreasonable. If your younger daughter had an event to go to that kept her out later at night, or overnight, would you allow your older daughter to stay out later as well?

I think as long as she's keeping up her grades and her job responsibilities she should be allowed to make her own choices, how else will she learn what works for her and what she needs to do to make it through?

Now, if you're just concerned for her well being or having a hard time adjusting to her being gone at night then ask her to just check in with you. A simple text every couple of hours to let you know she's alright until you adjust to her being gone more might help you both feel better.

Yeah ... she does not need supervision. She's one of those. My first response to this thread was "The human being you described does NOT exist!!!" Then I thought about myself. Now, granted I am a socially challenged being incapable of hooking up with even bad examples of society, but I am incredibly responsible.

College will change her. She'll want to party into the night on weekdays and preventing that just seems unfair. It's like stealing her childhood. The curfews don't seem necessary to me. It's not like she's going to all of a sudden change and WANT to be a party animal for the rest of her life.

The only piece of info that might change my mind is if there are a lot of criminals around that would hurt her. Does she know how to protect herself? Does she know to go in groups? There are some lessons she is better off not having to learn the hard way.

As a guy in a 'safe' college town, it wasn't as big of an issue for me.

I have a 19-yo son (legal age here), and a 15-yo son. I have explained to my adult son (still at home, in university), that he is now an adult, and my dictating to him is over. We now negotiate, but it's very easy with him. He's mature, and has no difficulty living with a set of common sense guidelines (not rules) for a young adult. If he is going to be late (rare), he calls/texts to say he will be... the same sort of courtesy you would show your wife/husband. He does not have guests over without telling us they'll be coming over (fair warning sort of thing). He has no curfew, but knows his responsibilities.

He did ask a while ago what wine tasted like (I don't think he drinks, and he certainly doesn't when he drives). He looked seriously surprised when I told him he could go buy his own and find out. While he has been to bars, I don't think he ever really realised he could go to a store and buy his own alcohol and bring it home. Just never occurred to him. It wouldn't bother me... he's an adult.

My 15-yo is 6'5" and can't understand why he can't do what his older, shorter, brother can do. Not stupid, he has a difficult time with the concept of age restrictions. When he is 18, things will be much tighter for him than they were for his brother. It's a question of personality and maturity.

You know your daughter. Your description of her is a bright, mature, considerate young-adult woman with a good sense of purpose and direction. 10pm seems unreasonable from your description. I would suggest that a flexible limit be established based on the situation where she is, the situation at home, and the schedule for the next day. Discussing with her why some nights midnight might be ok, but on others 10pm makes more sense would probably work.

Are you having a hard time letting go? I hope so. I think one of the most difficult challenges for any parent is knowing when and how far to relax the rules. And you won't know whether you were right until long after the fact (sorry).

Totally agree, but I also agree with the idea that each child's different. Perhaps the reason for so much concern is that her older sister (now 27) actually chose to move in with her father when she was 18 because my restrictions were too tight. But she was a whole 'nother child. ;) And do remember, sexist or not, she's still a girl. Do you think this should change anything or is that some old-school notion stuck in my head?

---------- Post added at 10:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:11 AM ----------

I'm definitely hearing that one. :thumbsup:

---------- Post added at 10:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 AM ----------

Truth? She'd probably ask if it was "okay" if she came home at 12. Her expectations aren't that high (thankfully!) and she'd still want me to be okay with it.

---------- Post added at 10:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:15 AM ----------

Thanks for the reminder. I was at home with my parents when I was 18 and used to come home at 5:00 a.m. during the week. Heheheh. My mom actually helped me find an apartment because she wasn't able to sleep until I came home, so pushed me into my independence. Probably the best way to propel me into adulthood.

I think this should be your guiding force more than anything else. Only you know your daughter, and from the sounds of it she would not abuse your trust.

Have a conversation sometime with her not just about curfew, but about school and her goals and just be there to support her. Ask her how she plans to budget time and money to meet her goals.

The one thing my mom never did for me that I wish she would have was actually take the time to listen, without judgement and without writing me off. My dad however did, and as a result he and I are much closer and I will often go to him and bounce things off him. He never tells me what to do or not do, but often asks the questions that show he is paying attention and wants me to think things through as much as possible.

Thank you, all, for the thoughtful responses. Most of what's been said makes so much sense. I definitely do want to give her the freedom to grow up and make a few mistakes. Besides the apron strings, it's difficult not to want to protect her. She texted me the other night when I was at work that her car wouldn't start. When I took my break and called, she started crying because she didn't know what to do. I guess I'll just have to worry until she goes through more of these real life situations and is forced to figure them out and grow.

---------- Post added at 10:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:28 AM ----------

Plans? She would tell you she wants those boots, but will do her best to try to save. She understands that she should save, but has always had difficulty hanging on to money. As for the goals, she doesn't have any and feels that since she's still trying to decide on her major, she has time to set them. And I'm lucky that she feels comfortable enough to talk with me about almost anything.

jewels,

Let me start by saying that it sounds to me like you've done a good job, and that it is refreshing to see an active parent. I tend to see your side based on a few factors:

1) I only have a toddler so my protective instinct is at its peak.
2) There is no magic that turns an 18-year-old into a responsible adult. It's just a number the State uses to change one's legal status.
3) The old-school notion of "my house, my rules."

Having said that, I think another approach might be to simply let the curfew be an a nightly compromise, rather than a static value. Just ask her each night how much time she needs and have her understand that that means be home by then, no matter what! Some nights, it could be 10 and others it could be later. Let's face it, all we really want to know is that, if they aren't home by X, then they might be in trouble. As long as everyone involved knows what X is, the value becomes less relevant.

I went to University at 18, and I don't remember my mother setting any rules other than "be safe".

Our parents teach us to use our judgement, and at some point they have to trust us to do so, but be there for us when we mess up.

I messed up a few times, and only a couple did I ever ask for help. I hope my daughter in her turn is wise enough to ask for help when she needs it and has good enough judgement by the time I send her out into the world.

I commuted to a junior college for a few semesters, and was working full-time while attending night classes. At the while I was technically living at home, but I tended to crash on friends' couches because I didn't feel safe driving all the way home after a long day of working. The night classes would frequently let out at 10pm. Then of course there were the group study sessions, cramming nights before exams... My mother had to "deal". I would phone her frequently, let her know that I was safe. That's all she really wanted from me - was to know that I was safe. I tried to be home as often as I could on the weekends, wake up early when I was home, go for runs with the dog, work in the garden - be an active part of the home life. Heck, I would even drive home on my lunch break some days to water the fruit trees during the summer. It was relaxing, and it made my parents feel like I was contributing.

I found it challenging, if not impossible, to meet all of my parents' expectations while I was an adult at home. They wanted me to pay rent, but there was no way that I could afford my car payments, car insurance, courses, and rent... they gave me wiggle-room. They made me feel loved and supported. And they were happy when I transferred up to a wonderful university to finish out my degree - even more excited when they realized that it was all paid for by grants. The fact that I didn't need their assistance financially when I was ready to move on made up for the fact that I couldn't pay rent while I lived with them.

You're going to have to remember that your daughter loves you, and that she wants to be a good person. Sometimes your idea of a good person and hers isn't going to fit the same definition. Be ready for that, and you'll do fine.

To be honest it is a little old fashioned, Jewels. I can understand your perspective as a protective parent but its perfectly acceptable and really expected that women are going to go out and do the same things us guys are doing. Letting her get out and have the same experiences as her peers might go a long way towards getting started in a very competitive world where (in theory at least) she's going to be considered an absolute equal to her male counterparts. I'm not sure anybody in this day and age should have a special set of rules based on sex alone because society just doesn't work that way anymore.

Best of luck, I know its a lot easier said then done.

When it comes to nighttime safety of teenage girls, there are differences.

But the differences are minimal and easily remediated with a little common sense.

Sure I suppose there can be, but if she's smart and knows how to look after herself it shouldn't be that big of a concern...at least not a big enough concern to demand an adult women be home at a certain time. When I think back to being that age most of my female friends knew how to stay out of trouble and look after themselves, they would have thought it silly to have a curfew or rules simply for their own protection especially if it was being done only because they were women.

I would agree if we were talking about a young teenage girl but at 18, working and attending college? In this day and age it does seem a little unreasonable when you consider her social life, late night study sessions, classes, late shifts at work ect ect.

And a weapon in the purse. :p

I am the proud parent of a young woman of her own who recently surpassed half my age, who insistently & increasingly became her own guidance starting in Jr. High & spent most of High School completely out of control. Attaining an adult relationship when the time came was...problematical for us. I think you & your daughter are lucky to have each other, & that the mutual understanding you've described will make your transition much more graceful. We make our own paths - with your perspective recall think of how you were feeling when you were her age, & I'm sure you'll lighten up on 'the rules.'

More like a self defense class and common sense. A weapon can be used on her if she doesn't know how to use it. A self defense class and knowing to put keys between the knuckles is more effective overall.. as well as some self confidence and awareness.