GF Is Pregnant, I'm Fucked
 

So, this girl I've been dating for a while now is pregnant (go me!).

She wants to keep it, I feel totally fucked.

I don't know how to handle myself, I found out yesterday.
I've been acting supportive around her, but inside, I'm going insane.
She's outside of my race and my parents DO NOT approve (they are old school).
Her financial situation is fucked, so mine is going to be too.
I made some horrible choices.

So yeah...

Dude.

Chill....

You're not a bad guy. You might actually make a decent dad. It's in your wheelhouse.

This may be a game changer. Or not. Go to the doctor with her and be sure. See what she wants to do. Go from there.

We all still love you regardless.

Sorry to hear man :/ All you can do is make the best of it. I assume she's dead set on keeping it and not persuadable?

I assume you were using some sort of birth control at least? Mistakes happen; don't blame yourself. You can't change the past, but you can choose how you move forward.

^^What do you mean, "sorry"?

Congrats DUDE!!! You'll be fine. Everyone freaks out at every change but you will come to accept it. Have fun and I hope it's a boy!

I'll be the voice of reason for a moment:

Huh? Are we really celebrating the accidentally creation of a human life that'll most certainly put this dude in a financial hurtlocker until 2035?

Also: I'm not big on the "Awwh, sheeit... anybody can be a parent!" vibe emanating from the blue-tinted smiles in this thread.

...

And does this girl have a firm grasp of reality or is she just in it for the child support megabucks? The Surprise (TM) will pretty much ruin both of your chances for higher education and automobiles newer than 1997 for the next, oh, 25 years. I won't be the only one living on tuna and Cheerios.

Sure, the above statement requires some personal information, but I'm guessing you're not a college graduate banking $65k a year.

...

I'd urge her to "fire zee missiles" and abort this mutual headache. If she wants a baby, she can make another one with someone else. Later.

It sounds like neither of you need this. Especially now. What were you doing having sex? You should have stuck to UsTwo-themed flow charts.

/ typical Plan9 anti-baby banter

I say give the kid a chance at life. You may have just spawned the cure for cancer, alcoholism or depression. He/she could go on to create a cheeseburger with zero calories, create an amazing new sport, or discover a new and unlimited source of energy that will end all war and save the human race. On the other hand, he/she may follow in the footsteps of such luminaries as Pol Pot, Hannibal, Genghis Khan, Hitler or J. Robert Oppenheimer. Best of luck.

I think Plan9 covered it. ;) Also, I don't know if you noticed, but soma isn't exactly enthused about this development.

Wow, that was a dick sandwich. And don't demonize Oppenheimer's Bhagavad Gita moment. He got stuck with a grand case of "us versus them."

Now, now Mr. Abortion...why not step gently around back and chat with Sister Mary Adoption?

I would but I'm stuck attending to Mother Earth... poor girl is still reeling from a case of overpopulationitis.

Who needs the cure for cancer? We've got idiots popping out five kids to replace your tumor-riddled relative.

Well this thread is just full of happy, ain't it? Adoption is another possibility.

Well, dude, based on your thread about her being distant and cheating on you and such, I can tell this is definitely not the right time to be making babies...

...but, you already did. You made the decision to risk it and, unfortunately, you don't have much say in the abortion decision.

Time to suck it up and deal with the consequences of your actions, champ.

Can't really say sorry as it's not like it was out of your control, and can't really say congratulations as it's not like you are exactly stoked about it, so I'll say good luck and don't beat yourself up too much if you make a bunch of mistakes. They're kind of inevitable...

i wont say sorry, nor will i congratulate you.

but what i will tell you is that many men become great dads after reeling with the news of a pregnancy. After denying reality, and pushing the thought that they created a human being (willingly or unwillingly) in the deepest darkest dungeons of their minds, many realise that they can either have an input into the life they created and make that being into something that society finds admirable, or they can continue to deny it and create an atmosphere of resentment that will create nightmare kids and will give Plan9 more ammunition till 2035.

Given my track record with women and finding out that my woman friend has been seeing another guy recently, I say you better get that shit dna tested if you can't talk her out of it.

Women piss me off lately. PEOPLE piss me off lately.

oh well, this isn't about me, though I've always identified with your posts, this is a LIFETIME thing, being a parent doesn't end at them turning 18, don't kid yourself (no pun intended)

Both Shauk and dlish bring up good points.

If she ends up carrying the child to term and keeping it, you can either make the best of it or never come to terms with it. Over time, it's likely you'll learn to see the good in all this and do your best to be a good father.

That said, if she has cheated on you in the past, I'd definitely get a DNA test done.

13 years ago I got pregnant, and my boyfriend and I were not ready for a child. He insisted I get an abortion, I could not. I am not against abortions, but I knew it would haunt me forever if I did, so I gave my beautiful baby boy up for adoption. It was the hardest thing I ever had to do. I am crying right now.

I know I gave him a better life. I hand picked his parents, before he was born, out of hundreds of files, and met 6 different couples, who were unable to have children of their own. I met the perfect couple, and know in my heart he was meant to be with them, though it was a very hard thing to do.

I get pictures every once in awhile, and I see what a wonderful life he has. It also helps that I was also adopted to wonderful parents. They loved my sisters, brother, and I as if we were their own, even better than some of my friends parents. I was very loved, and so is my son.

I hope that helps.

Personally, I agree with Plan, but we all know that.

The vote for adoption? That's hard, harder on her than you think. Soma (with his not caring as much for the child) really won't care in a few years, but she will. I am an adopted kid and my parents got me in a situation like Lostgirl (except I think mine was different as I believe I was a milkman baby). There are a lot of parents that could give emotional, financial, and physical support for a little baby that can't have a baby of their own. They would love a little puke factory in their life.

It's fucked up, people who don't want/can't afford kids are popping those little flesh bags out everyday and people who really want them (and are financially stable enough to really take care of one) can't have them. Oh well, shit happens.

Do what you need to do, but know this. This is for the rest of your life, so suck it up and support her in any way possible. You dropped the nut, now deal with the consequences.

I'm in grad school and am on the verge of making more than that, but she's a film studies major (not even done with it yet...) so any salary I make will be cut in half. She also has piles of loans that I don't want to even think about. I hate to be so shallow and only think about money, but it's really important to me because I could get fucked out of a lot of it (although I do understand this is a result of my own actions, so really, I'm just fucking myself). Her living situation with her parents is really unstable, and I'm getting super paranoid about her trying to get pregnant so she can leech off of me. When she told me the other day, I looked deeply into her eyes, and I didn't see fear or regret, it seemed like she was satisfied with what was happening. I haven't expressed any of these suspicions to her.

Can someone explain the financial implications of this baby, and potentially child support if we do get separated?

Also, if this baby is not mine (very very unlikely) and I sign the birth certificate, does that mean I'm legally bound to the child even if it isn't mine? I was talking to some friends last night and someone mentioned something like that...

Edit: Adoptions is not something she is interested in either. She wants to have the baby and raise it too.

Edit2: Thanks for the comments. And there is still a part of me that wants to do the right thing and see this through...

Edit3: One of the worst parts about this is how my parents are very against this. It's really going to wreck our relationship.

You took the fun without understanding the risk, I am sorry but you have become a creator, there is a life there now. You are responsible and you as a person should have to live up to that responsibility.

My daughter is my world until she was born I never could understand the love between a parent and a child, it is something special unique, and I hope you will see that after the child comes in to this world.

You have the right to bring up adoption, and blood test if you really feel that way, just realize the health of your child and the mother during pregnancy and stress is important for her to avoid. Also this child is yours it is your son or daughter (dare i scare you even possibly multiples). As far as salaries and income and all that wow, that is all things thought of before you decide to unzip. Right now seriously she is on such a high level she is a creator she is creating life, that is part yours, this is an incredible joyous thing.

As far as your parents you may be surprised old school or not they will be grandparents. And that fact is not going to change, they will either come to terms and enjoy their grandchild or not, that is their perogative, but I am betting on them loving their grandchild. But your parents opinion now is to late really to be a factor you made your choice by dating her, and now you must live with your actions.

In life there is consequences for what your actions, this is one big lesson, but you can either think of it as a horrible thing, or work in the next few months to accepting and desiring and loving your child, don't punish the innocent child over your concerns.

As far as the birth certificate quesion, you can get your name removed via court if you can prove you are not actually the father (but you most likely will need a lawyer though I know in some courts the county clerk can help you do it by yourself).

Mazel tov

Soma, you need to check the laws of the state in which she is going to have the baby.
For example, in Florida, women are now required to provide the name of the child's father on the birth certificate if she chooses to try to seek state financial assistance. The woman MUST pursue child support and prove that she's actively seeking it, through the courts or privately, to receive any kind of help... in theory, cause it doesn't always work. But there are a lot of things in the Florida laws that many women are not happy with, but have to do in order to get help. Good luck, man.

Regardless of the laws, if you are the father the only right thing to do is to support your child.

Well, I was off. My assumptions were incorrect (as per usual) but unless your bach 'n mast degrees were paid for by someone other than student loans, you're in the same boat as someone with no college degree other than better job prospects. Even if your baby-grower has a good job, if you're both digging out of debt, the time and money costs of having a kid is only going to m... well, yeah. Dead horse.

You need to rethink this statement. You're not being shallow. Money is the only issue here unless you don't want this kid for other reasons like the ability to sleep 8 hours at a stretch. Money is what takes care of you (it is why most people have a job) and money is definitely what will take care of this kid. If you're the only one bringing in the oolahs, it's a real problem. You know what's shallow? Keeping an unwanted child because of emotional weakness/family fantasy/religion/whatever. You can make another one. It's really easy. The guests of Maury and Jerry Springer prove it every week.

This is bad. She's laying eggs without a frickin' nest, bro. Her student loans? Whatever. Her living arrangements? Whatever. Job? Whatever.

She's satisfied with having a baby when neither of you are emotionally or financially ready for it? Don't confuse confidence/comfort with idiocy.

A donkey isn't zen, it's just dumb.

My parents had a hard stance against some of my choices. And after the dust settled, I always found I'd have been better off listening.

1. It takes two to make a baby.
2. She wants to keep it.

You have two choices:

1. Stay with her and help her raise the child despite your racist parents.
2. Leave her and support her and the child financially (assuming it's yours).

The rest is just values.

This is the philosophy that loads the trailer park. If he is the father and it's unwanted, he shouldn't have to ruin his life over one blown load.

This isn't 1710. It's 2010.

I hear you. I'm reminded of it everyday on my 30 minute, 5 mile drive to work everyday.

Call me socially phobic but anyplace with a population in the billions scares me a little. I don't think even the largest ant colonies in the world run into the BILLIONS.

In 1710, child labour was legal. Our modern laws aim to prevent the suffering of children. This includes laws regarding paternal abandonment.

yeah, well the stalks going to be delivering in 8 or so months, so there's no use telling him how he should have listened to his parents.

besides the fact that the horse has already bolted, he's an adult and needs to accept the fact that he'll be a father soon. No amount of badgering about what he should have done is going to better his situation.

It is, what it is...right? ;)

The world isn't overpopulated; it simply has too many North Americans and Europeans.

I was referring to medical technology / abortion, but sure... I'll buy that. Paternal abandonment is fun. What about maternal idiocy? Going for male-female relations / law? We live in an age where everybody is supposedly equal... except not men in this situation. Sure, it's his fault, but it still sucks.

...

You mean whitey. And I think we could knock off a few million Chinese / Indians as well. Somebody push the red button. Africa will take care of itself.

...

Oh, yessir. Girl is pregnant. -> Big problem. -> Do what it takes not to ruin your life.

Dude, doing what it takes not to ruin your life is NOT fucking a girl that you wouldn't want to be the mother of your child. That was the only stop gap measure built into our society and he dismissed it.

P.S. Triple negative sentences ROCK!

I bookmarked this thread a while ago ...

At my job in HR a year or so ago, I was shocked how many single young guys were earning $450. a week and only taking home between $200-325 a week because they were being hit up by the State for child support payments. The State takes it directly from the employer, you know. Some of these guys were getting hit up for more than one kid with two different women.

One guy had to pay for 8 kids and it was going to 5 different women!! (No shit). He once joked to me and the director of accounting --- that he felt like a slave laborer.

Wisely, I just smiled and kept on walking....

I have a difficult time understanding the mentality that goes into being immediately at peace with any unplanned pregnancy. I wonder if in fact it was not entirely unplanned on her part.

Her Parents:
You've mentioned that they're unstable. Are you anticipating little to no help and support in this matter?

Your Parents:
Is the main thing holding you back from loving this woman your parents' disapproval? The prospect of a grandchild in their near future might provide them with enough of a catalyst to result in a critical change of heart. Maybe not, but it's possible that your parents only need to see a working, loving interracial relationship.

Finances:
Presumably when she accepted the student loans she had every intention of paying them off. For some, they take this on knowingly as a lifetime burden so they can study and practice their area of passion. Hopefully she has every intention of working her bum off when she is finished with school so she can eventually pay off those debts. If her debt is entirely in student loans, you have much less to worry about than you may think. It's usually a good way to build credit, and generally involve low or no interest rates. If you dive into her finances you may find that you're much better off than you anticipate. On the other hand, if she chose to pay for school with credit card debt (no joke, I've met someone who did this) then you might just be up a creek.

During the pregnancy, many women are unable to think clearly. You may want to use this as an opportunity to ask her permission to take over paying her bills, and in the process glance at her finances and to see if they're salvagable.

Since you are personally in school and presumably living off a stipend-income at best, you won't be able to support her the way she apparently dreams you can. Provide her with emotional support, and make sure that your child is in a healthy environment, but make it clear that everything is for your child. You may want to look into the support programs that are available in your area to young single moms. Check non-profits and local churches, too. Assure her comfort from outside sources as much as possible, this will relieve your stress as well as your financial burden.

She may attempt to pursuade you to marry her before the child is born. You don't seem ready for that kind of a commitment. Rather than promise her a lifetime that you're not sure you want to give, encourage her to be a single mother for at least a year. If an undying love and partnership develops from the birth of this child, then you can plan that wedding, knowing that you're confident with your decision.

Her Mental Health
On a similar note, she may not be able to keep up in school. She may not feel motivated to go back to school after the child is born. Do not take this as a shift in ethics or some sort of religious preference, but please see it as it truly is - a plea for help and a sign of post-partum depression. Please do her and yourself a favor by encouraging her to resume some semblance of a motivated happy life after the baby is born. Do not let that child suck away her life and consume all of her thoughts. I've seen far too many young women fall into this trap and wind up hopelessly lost, with regrets about not finishing their education, with their only achievement being their healthy children. Having a baby is not her free pass to your lifelong assistance - especially since she took out those student loans - she needs to finish her degree and find a healthy line of work, which will be mentally stimulating as well as financially rewarding.


----
Any way you look at it, you're in for a hell of a ride, Soma. Good luck to you.

Abort the mission, bro.

I'm gonna go with Plan9 on this one. Do what you can, when you can, to get off the hook. I'm not telling you to sneak her some pennyroyal tea, I'm saying that you should let her know of all her options, and try to convince her to side with you.

Whatever choice is made, prepare for lots of crying and emotional pain. Stress at it's finest is the situation you're in.

Sorry to hear it, I've never been there but I've seen a few friends go through this and its never easy. I will say (based on what I've seen from those I know) that if you're a level headed intelligent person you'll find a way to navigate the waters and come out okay on the other side. It sucks and it wont be easy but but where there's a will (even if its forced on you) there's a way. Best of luck.

Okay the following has nothing to do with Soma or his GF I don't know them or what kind of parents they will make but MY GOD do I hate hearing things like this. You have a mother who has basically decided the fathers financial lot in life for the 20 years for a simple mistake while bringing a child into the world that neither one is sure they either want or can take care of. The child, unplanned for gets the short end of the stick because the parents have no intention of trying to build a family, don't have the financial ability to provide or worse resent the he/she fucked up their own lives and feels the brunt of all this through out childhood. Before long Dad gets sick of the responsibility and splits, mom can't afford to pay and suddenly junior becomes everyone else's responsibility/problem. Now I know all of that is a generalization and an unplanned for child can have a great life with great parents. But it does happen (a lot from what I've seen in my own life) and I wish more people would think about it before going through with an unplanned pregnancy, its not fair to anybody involved if neither of you are ready.

Back on topic Soma I'd do what I can to try and avoid going through with all of this if you or your GF don't feel ready, at the very least have a very, VERY long talk about your options. If you can't avoid it then you'll have to take it on the chin for the sake of the little one (who has no say in this) and do the best job you can to provide for and raise him/her.

Again best of luck and the above rant wasn't directed personally at you.

girly -

Great post. Very positive. I confess I'm having a difficult time mustering anything happy to say about this. I'm feeling like a grandfather looking at those damn kids and their rock music.

What exactly does a "film studies major" do for a living as a graduate - Blockbuster cashier?

What the fuck? Student loans to get a film studies degree?!?!? Clearly someone whose parents pushed them into college as "the next step in life", as opposed to someone with true ambition and wanted to pursue a career.

Sorry, this is all fairly harsh. I'm sure that degree will have a huge ROI in the real world - even with the 4.5% interest on the 20 year student loan.

Not to get too into the "college is a piece of paper" realm, but it has been my experience that it is.

I didn't matter that I had a degree in the specific field I was going into... only that I had a degree.

The company gladly accepts people with any type of degree. Baraka is just as good as Plan9.

We all know that's not true.


In summary:



Your life - "if you like it, then shouldn't stick your dick in there. If you like it, then you shouldn't stick your dick in there. Oh, oh, OOOhhhhh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh...."

*Ahem* I have a degree and a diploma—just not the income to reflect that.

Compensation all comes down to the reward for the value you provide. A film studies graduate can work in the culture industry—not necessarily the film industry. Many, many people don't end up doing things directly related to their diplomas/degrees. She might even get into PR. PR pays well. It's about going after the money and getting paid for providing a service of value.

Do as I say not as I do.

Haha! I think that's the funniest thing you've ever said on here. Well done.

Did a socialist just say it's about going after the money and getting paid for providing a service...?

Someone suspend his account, it's clearly been hacked! :)

I think that's what it all comes down to.

The more you stick your dick in there the greater the chance a baby will come out.

That's life.

---------- Post added at 04:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:58 PM ----------

We're socialists, not communists. :thumbsup:

Well I wasn't going to mention it, but others have, including soma, so it does seem suspect to me that you've been going through relationship troubles and that you're so much more stable than she is and now *oops!* she's pregnant. I wouldn't accuse her of it directly - there's no good way to do that - but it's something to consider when you're deciding whether to keep trying for a relationship with her or simply fulfill your duty as a father. What were you two doing for birth control? Condoms? The pill? Both? Something else?

As for this mentality that it's your own damn fault for having sex in the first place, I'm not one to blame people for following biological imperatives. Blaming someone for having sex is like blaming someone for eating. That said, just like one can eat irresponsibly (overeating, eating more than they can afford), one can also have sex irresponsibly (without adequate birth control, etc). Assuming you were using birth control, I think your biggest mistake was having sex with someone who you weren't positive was sane enough to recognize when a pregnancy should not be continued. Anyway, that's all in the past. My point is simply to say that it's unreasonable to expect people to forgo sex entirely. That urge - and these sorts of mistakes - are kind of the entire basis of our advancement as a species.

I think genuinegirly gives some very good advice, but I disagree with the idea that your parents might magically be OK with an interracial relationship just because there's a grandkid on the way. I don't know why, but people have this tendency to think children fix everything. Your girlfriend seems to think it will fix your relationship (it won't, and it will screw all three of you over in the long run), others here seem to think that the wonder of creating a life will make up for the fact your financial life is going to suck for the next 10-20 years (it won't, regardless of what approach you take to the situation), and still others seem to think that a cute little interracial baby just washes away any inherent racism grandparents might have (it won't, in fact it might just make it worse, especially considering the child is out of wedlock).

None of this is to say that these are good excuses to be a deadbeat dad or anything like that. I don't get the impression that you're considering skipping out on your responsibilities, and I don't know why some others seem to default to that assumption just because you're not happy with the situation. Rather, I acknowledge the negative to sympathize with you: telling you what you feel is wrong and that you should be happy about all this isn't going to do anything to help. It's important to know, first and foremost, that what you're feeling is OK. It's OK that you're not happy. Don't ignore what you're feeling because other people tell you it's not right; embrace your feelings so that you can see them, accept them, and move on from them.

Once you've accepted that what you're feeling is OK, it's easier to move past those feelings and determine the best course of action. Your relationship to the child - should it be born and kept by the mother - only has a few options, ranging from full on dad to absent source of money. Seeing as how any hint of you doing anything less than that is only in the imagination of other posters here, I'm not going to dwell on that.

Your first step is to have many long, hard discussions with the mother about why it's not a good idea to keep the child. I don't know what her reasons are for not having an abortion, so let's assume that's non-negotiable. If that's the case, I'd focus on the fact the child will have a much better life with a different family than with the two of you barely able to support it. It doesn't sound like she's one to respond to reason, but it's worth a shot. Focus on how the child's life will be better, not how your lives will be better. She's clearly not capable of thinking rationally about your own lives. I'd mention the prospect of having grandparents who resent it as well, because that is an important issue if you're talking about providing the best life for the child.

During these discussions, observe her reactions, because your next step after finalizing what is going to happen with this pregnancy is figuring out what is going to happen to your relationship with the mother. Even if you convince her to go through with adoption, she could change her mind, so you need to assume that you'll be responsible for the baby until it is officially, legally not your responsibility. Working with that assumption, you need to know if there's good reason to suspect that it is not truly yours or that she got pregnant intentionally. Observe how she talks about the pregnancy, how she reactions to the idea of adoption, why she is against putting the baby up for adoption, and decide how likely you think it is that the baby is not yours or was intentional.

Asking for a DNA test is likely to severely damage your relationship with the mother. If she has cheated in the past then you have good reason to want one, but she's going to be insulted by the request either way. Be prepared for that consequence before you decide to ask. Not because your relationship with the mother particularly matters here, but because if she keeps the baby then your relationship with her will affect your relationship with the child. Asking for a DNA test will be a very sensitive discussion. That's not to say you shouldn't do it: if you do suspect that the child may not be yours, then going through that difficult discussion is better than going through a lifetime of caring for a child that is not your responsibility.

The even bigger issue is the question of whether or not this pregnancy was intentional. There's no point in ever making this accusation directly, because nothing can be done with it. Intentional or not, if the child is yours then it is your responsibility. (Side note: Men seriously get screwed by the law in this regard, but I have yet to think of a satisfactory way to give men the same power to denounce a pregnancy that a woman has.) Could she have intentionally skipped birth control? Could she have sabotaged your condoms? If you come to believe that she planned this, then that does two things for you: 1) It will tell you that this is not a woman you want to remain in a relationship with. This will help you determine what role you are going to play in the child's life, and it will also help determine whether or not you think the issue of a DNA test is worth bringing up. 2) It may help you convince her to give the child up for adoption. If she intentionally got pregnant thinking that it would tie you to her and you make it clear that you have no intention of letting this pregnancy tie you to her as well as the child, then she may realize it's best to give the child up for adoption than to raise it as a single mother. You'll never know if she did this intentionally, so the best you can go on here is intuition.

----

I just thought to add: a very good friend of mine found out he was the father of an unwanted pregnancy back in February. Both he and the mother have law degrees, and they had already been living together for over a year at that point. They decided to keep the baby and got married right away, but they were not exactly enthused by the development. They weren't calling their friends spreading the good news, and when they finally got around to telling me that they got married and will be having a baby, there was a mixture of happiness and disappointment. I share this story to stress, again, that you should not feel guilty for being unhappy about all this. If two relatively stable young lawyers who are already in a committed relationship aren't happy about their unwanted pregnancy, then you definitely have a right to be unhappy about yours.

I must interject, I rarely post on here but some of these posts trouble me.

I few years ago,when I was 25 and my partner 23, even though I was taking the pill we got pregnant. We were not in a financial position to support a child, and he was using cannabis heavily and it was making our relationship rocky.

When I got the test and took it, I immediately told him, his first words were 'I'm too young to be a dad', being naive and totally in love, I felt I did the right thing by him, and went to have a termination. I didn't want to be a single mum.

It has haunted me ever since. I'm sorry to get graphic, but because I wanted not to risk my future fertility I had to have an abortion wherby you essentially give birth to the dead foetus (at 11 weeks), it was horrific and troubling, I am not against abortions nor pro people having kids against their will but if you understood the pressure, guilt, worry and feelings of disgust that went through me shortly after - then you might think twice about being so much more worried about yourself.

I did not choose to get pregnant,
I would never manipulate a man into staying with me by getting pregnant.
Nor would any sane woman.

And it is I that has to live with the choice we made - have a long hard think about what it is she is probably feeling at the moment and be a little less panicked about yourself, and a bit more sympathetic to her, please.

Just a thought from my own experience.

I say you have it easy man!
Nobody will notice you're going to be a dad, everybody will notice she is going to be a mother; if you decide to abort, is she, not you, who must likely will get scarred for life by the experience; if she decides to keep the baby, is she who will have to put her academic, social and work life on a hiatus, not you (assuming you won't go and live with her, assumption more than reasonable taken into account everything you have said in this and other threads), you won't have to spend night after night feeding and taking care of the baby, you won't get all preoccupied and stressed because the baby is sick, won't eat or is crying for no reason, no man, you won't experience any of those shortcomings, all you'll have to do is pay a monthly sum to support the baby and that's it, I say you have it easy taking everything into account, so, my advice to you: MAN UP and thank God you are the man and not the girl in the situation, then go and buy a shitload of condoms, this time with Nonoxynol-9 for your future sexcapades, or better yet, refrain to engage in activities which consequences you are more than clear unable and unwilling to accept.

katyg: I'm sorry to hear about your experience. I don't think anyone here would support the idea of someone getting an abortion when that person doesn't truly want one; we are suggesting that the mother is likely not thinking clearly about the issue and perhaps through discussion soma can make her realize that there are better options. Going through life avoiding expressing your own wants and desires out of fear that someone else will not like their consequences is no way to live. If the mother decides to have an abortion or give the child up for adoption after talking things over with soma, then that's her own responsibility. Just like the fact she is pregnant is soma's responsibility. He shouldn't be required to keep his own desires locked away just because someone else might not like them.

ironman: The fact he's less screwed than her doesn't take away from the fact that he is still screwed. Furthermore, I get the impression that she's perfectly fine with "[putting] her academic, social and work life on a hiatus," which only contributes to making soma even more screwed. Lastly, if she doesn't feel screwed by this - and it seems she doesn't - then it hardly makes sense to say she has it worse off than soma. Neither are in a good position, but soma seems to be the only one with the good sense to realize it. As they say, ignorance is bliss.

As for Nonoxynol-9, it actually increases the risk of HPV and HIV infection because it is a skin irritant. Most safer sex educators I know of specifically recommend against its use.

Even more reason then to keep it in his pants if his not willing to accept the responsibility of his actions. If you fuck, eventually you will get yourself/other pregnant, that's as simple as 1+1.

What is with the "go me!" if this is such a displeasure for you why congratulate yourself for the fact that a woman whom you don't really seem to care for beyond a nut dump is pregnant by you.... what does it prove, that you can make a baby. The real question is can you be a man about it and accept the responsibility of your actions. Life is not always the ride we dream it will be but if you look around and try to enjoy the ride your on you may find it is even better than you thought it could be. Man up to your parents, apparently you have some feelings for this girl and whether your parents accept her or not is truly the least of your problems, they will die one day and if you are living for them, then they really didn't do the job they should have. If you wait until you are financially capable to conceive you may end up fatherless, for now you must face this unplanned surprise, if she aborts or not will only alleviate the momentary issue, whether you will take the reigns on this horse of your life is the real question, twenty years from now you will still be a father, of either a dead conglomeration of cells that amounted to nothing or a 20 year old human who will bear some resemblance of you and hopefully respect you more than you respect yourself right now and who if in the same situation as you are right now recognizes the choices they have, just the fact that she is in college says something.

If she decides to keep it and you do decide to participate in a life together (why not, if the baby is yours, why the hell not try, you don’t have to get married, you don’t have to sign your name to the papers yet, on the contrary if no funds are available, you two need to allow her to take the responsibility of the financial burden (depending on where you live, unmarried mothers, especially students, receive reduced to free care for childbirth and early child development) and the ability to receive food stamps, WIC, etc… this is the price she pays for not protecting herself, that and the whole Mother thing, secondary you will need to support the child, period, unless it is not yours but you have already stated that you believe it is. Still she will get more help as a single mother right now and I think this should be part of her commitment to the baby and in a sense her willingness to support you finishing college and getting the job, then when the baby is a bit older she can finish her education, she will need to quit school and get a job, you will need to finish school and hold down a job -always- It is nice to be young with your children, struggle builds character and if you allow it, closeness of family and value of more than that which is monetary. It is true, if she desires to keep this baby it is she who will do the lions' share of the child rearing, and you will only foot half the bill, it's not like mom's and their jobs, or our taxes don't pay for at least half. (go you!) well you did Soma, the question now is can you go the distant and when or if you do then you can truly say, GO ME! until then, just because you can father a child, damn sure doesn't make you a dad.

p.s. katyg, it still amazes me how fast the word abortion gets thrown into the mix of responsibility as though aborting the conglomeration of cells is just as simple as throwing away a piece of paper, but the reality is that piece of paper was a story in the making and we ended the book before it began but the chapter remains within “our” book and always feels empty, pages of emptiness that never seem to be filled with anything except regret. Even though we convince ourselves we did the right thing and that at the time we did exactly what we knew was the best for all involved, it doesn’t change the fact that those pages will always be empty in the book of “our” lives, for men it seems however, they don’t carry the same emptiness we do, they don’t understand the unwritten words that are written in our minds over and over again, the what ifs, the could have beens, the did I do the right thing, the justifications, the reality of the experience is ours to bear, the burden of birth or lack thereof still seems to linger in our minds, and the biggest worry on this thread seems to be “what will my parents think” and “how can I afford this” not the reality of lives changed simply in the effort of living. I am amazed at the moments of reality that seem to pass people by with little more meaning than what it will cost my wallet or my appearance as opposed to how it will alter my reality of LIFE, if I had had the baby it would be 21 this winter, IF, If, if. I wonder if he even remembers my name. I sure as hell remember his, I remember every single moment of every single moment, it costs me a lot more than a college education to remember, a lot more than the respect of my mother (who was disgusted for years at me for my decision), but he’s not paying for anything, I am and it still costs me today just currency of heart and mind, and a good therapist and learning to just go with the flow “chart” of life that doesn’t always end in definitives that are all squared away and neat or easy to follow but lead me to happiness none the less. :)

Man up Soma, either way, don’t let her go through this alone, she sure as hell didn’t get there that way. Peace be with you and her. Good luck and God Bless.

What is manly about putting up with a stranger growing a 50/50 tumor?

Pretty sure it's called sarcasm ;)

I find it interesting that people are so willing to talk about "manning up" and accepting the responsibility of actions, yet no one apparently expects the mother to do the same thing. The responsible thing for the mother to do in this situation would be to either abort or put the child up for adoption. It is irresponsible for the mother to carry this child to term with the intention of keeping it, yet no one wants to talk about how she isn't being responsible here. Soma's not asking how to get away with being a deadbeat dad, and no one here is advising him to be one. Rather, the discussion has been centered on how to help the mother to see what the more responsible options are, how to make sure he's not stuck caring for someone else's kid, and, finally, how to minimize the negative impact this unplanned pregnancy will have on the rest of his life.

As for the specific topic of abortion - and this is really approaching deserving a different thread - while there is no doubt that some mothers do suffer regret after abortion, the evidence points to this emotional impact being seriously overstated by those who are opposed to abortion. This is not to discount the experience of someone like katyg or yourself. Some women most certainly regret the decision. It is simply a mistake to assume that the difficult decision to abort will also lead to years of regret and anguish afterward. But again, no one is saying soma should bully her into getting an abortion, some people (including me) are simply saying that it is an option that should be seriously discussed. The fact that you regret your own has no bearing on what decision is right for soma and his girlfriend.

Awhile back, a certain TFP user wrote about her experience having had an abortion as a teenager, and you know what? She did not talk about regret. She did not talk about how that "chapter remains within [her] book and always feels empty." She was perfectly fine with the decision and recognizes it was the best choice to make. So please don't promote the sexist idea that men just don't understand and woe is woman who will always and forever regret having not given a chance to the clump of cells growing in their womb. The "what if" argument is tired and faulty, as powerclown demonstrates (perhaps unintentionally) in post #6. Women are just as capable as men to find peace with the decision to abort, and men are just as capable as women to regret that decision. In my own relationship, we've done everything necessary to avoid pregnancy over the past 10 years, but if we were to find out tomorrow that she's pregnant we would be making a trip to Planned Parenthood the next day. That's the real mistake here with soma's situation, because both my girlfriend and I have discussed this and there has never been any question that we would both choose to terminate an unwanted pregnancy. Soma didn't establish that understanding, and so he's paying the consequence. But again, that's in the past. It doesn't do him one bit of help to tell him how he should have done this or shouldn't have done that. It's kind of hard not to realize these things when you're faced with an unplanned, unwanted pregnancy.

Don't go moralizing and generalizing about your own decisions as if they apply equally to others. Especially don't go telling someone that their feelings aren't valid or that they shouldn't express their own needs and desires because they might cause someone else to be unhappy. Why is it OK for the mother to express the desire to keep the child with no regard for soma's happiness, but not OK for soma to express his desire to abort the child or put it up for adoption simply because the mother might be unhappy with those choices? It's not. He can't force the mother to abort or put the child up for adoption, so if she does do one of those things after discussing it with soma, it is her own responsibility to own those decisions. Don't go saddling soma with guilt for future possibilities that don't yet exist. He is responsible for his own choices, not hers, and if his choice would be to get rid of the baby in some way then he should not be forced to keep silent about what he wants for fear that she may not be happy with her own decision down the road.

(Sorry, soma, for talking about you as if you're not here.)

Nice, Smeth. And God can stay outta this thread. He's a lousy sibling to Our Lord and Savior: Brother Reason.

Didn't know she had a tumor, I thought she was expecting a baby.
She is no stranger, it is right there on the OP's title, GIRL FRIEND, hell!,you were offering him relationship advice twenty-something days ago.
A true man takes responsibility for his actions and does not fears his parents, instead he fights for what/who he wants/love.

Life sucks, but it also swallows!!
MAN UP!!

Geez, the high horses in here ...

People freak out. Freak out is normal. It is far more likely the girl didn't do this on purpose and even FAR more likely soma will be a dead beat more than the mom. Being a bread winner is difficult and soma just realized what he is up against. I have faith in him being a good father ... cause it's the only thing I can do.

but you guys ... wow!

It seems to me that "manliness" is a concept used mainly to either castigate or manipulate male behaviour.

I'm thinking about adding the phrase "man up" to fugly's thread. Does anyone second this motion?

Aye. All this "man up" shit makes me wanna punt someone in the crotch.

How about she "woman up" and get an abortion because she doesn't have the $$$?

OOH NAW, DAT WOULDN'T BE FAYR 'CUZ SHE A GIRL AND HAVIN' DUH BAYBEE.

Uh-huh.

Enough.

...

New from the makers of Chivalry's Dead and brought to you by Equal Rights (Sure, Uh-Huh) comes:

Man Up. (TM)

Just wanted to pop in and say great post, smeth.

I bolded the part that I thought was most important. This is probably the most crucial conversation to have in a relationship--or even not in a relationship, if you're not willing to wrap it before you tap it.

For those of you who haven't done it -and it's glaringly obvious that about 90% of the posters in this thread haven't - go back and read some of soma's earlier threads and posts. Because most of you clearly don't know much. So, dumbasses, before you get on your high horse for or against abortion, I humbly suggest that you know who the fuck you're talking about. Because, again, most of you don't. Which makes you suck, regardless or whatever opinion you have or don't have.

Those of you who've already done that know who you are - as do I and anyone else who've bothered to invest 5-10 minutes of their time. Thanks for that.

Soma - a few questions that are tough but need to be asked. Since I'm already the dickhead in this thread, I'll be the one to ask.

1) Are you sure she's pregnant or do you just have her word? Doctor confirmed?
2) Are you sure it's yours? I know you think its unlikely, but that didn't seem to be the case not that long ago.
3) What is she trying to get you to do? If it's anything beyond financial support at this stage, be suspicious.
4) Has she told anyone else she's pregnant? How is the announcement being made?
5) Are you trolling us?

Like I said, uncomfortable questions all around, but ones that need to be asked.

Yeah, "staying together for the kids" is a bullshit and epic fail move. The "kids" will know it and it never ends pretty. No one said "be a deadbeat dad", just don't stay dating this girl you are having problems with just for some accidental joining together of microscopic cells.

The_Jazz is right, these 5 questions *NEED* to be asked. Mainly 1 and 2. Coming from someone that has a woman cheat on him in every single relationship he has been in, find out if it's yours before signing anything. Hell, they sell DNA tests at CVS and walmart now. You will have to wait till the podling is out of the holding chamber before you can test it, but it needs to be done.

Also, women get pregnant to keep a relationship alive, I *know* this and it's a FUCKED UP situation to be in. Not all women (or men) are sane (as one poster commented) and that shit happens.

Personally, I say take her on a romantic day long horseback ride and hope for the best.

Any updates on your mind status, soma?

One thing I may advise you to do is to seek some legal counsel on this, as I'm not an expert on custodial and parental obligations.

You aren't married to the girl, I'm unsure about the status of your relationship with her, though I do feel as though you might just be with her because she's there for you, and taking on more responsiblity than you are currently prepared for may drive you to some metaphorical edge of sane rationing and who knows what you'll do then.

Just take some time to examine both you and your girl's mindset about the idea of a consolidated soma x soma's current GF mini-human, what it bears towards future returns, and if either of you can be commited to each other in the long-term. Perhaps love can later, if not's already prsent in your relationship (though this may be the case for only one of you).

Last remark: I'm thinking your signature's link may need some updating (with this thread instead).
It is really hard to think about how unbelievable this is for you ; it's just... you have every right to be whacked out of your mind about now.

I'm losing faith in humanity reading this thread.

All I am pointing out is:

1) If you have sex, there's a chance you might have a baby
2) Abortion can be an option but it's not always an easy one - it wasn't in my case
3) If she has decided to go to term you have to respect that - don't try and persuade her into anything
4) Support her as best you can but if you don't want to be with her, be there for the child but end the relationship

What often troubles me is the sheer amount of boys that simply seem to think that you can go through life and this is never a possibility - it's not all fun, games and fucking - there are consequences that neither person can foresee. I feel some very latent misogyny around here in ,some of the replies but perhaps I am just not in a funny mood.

It's not about 'manning up' that's equally sexist rubbish, it's about being a decent human being, supporting the girl you chose to be with, and helping her through this either as a friend or partner.

You're not the first, you won't be the last- it's not the end of your life so calm down.
All I was saying in my earlier post was that for me, and many of my friends - it wasn't easy to abort so get that right out of your head and deal with the person in front of you and help them.

To "woman up" would mean to accept the responsibility of her actions and follow through with them regardless of the choice, abort, adopt out, or rear and mother.... that would be to "woman up". And within that "womaning up" the recognizing that it seems, to many men, that abortion is just the end of a problem whereas the process of abortion alone has its own issues for not only a mental adjustment of reality but a physical one. Abortion is like having a root canal between your legs with more stigma than lack of good dental hygiene, grow up fellas, the abortion of a fetus is more than just taking a day after pill at this point. I could care less about the moral side of this issue; God has nothing to do with choice, imo, so my bringing in of God was just a simple well wishing to soma, et al.

It’s a real shame when someone takes what one says and wraps it with a religious connotation just because I believe in a God (just because I believe in God does not make me anti-abortion nor does it make me judgmental, nor am I pressuring to not have an abortion, gggeeessshhh people), and most of what I was saying about abortion to begin with was to katyg and understanding how abortion can effect somebody, funny, it didn't bother me that much until about 10 years later, when I grew up and realized the haste of my decision (and the pressure put upon me to have it). Still doesn't change that I did what I thought was the best at the time I did it, it just seems to me as a more mature woman now, I realize that most people raise to the challenges they are presented, it would have just been another challenge I would have risen to. And if she keeps it, so will they, they will rise to the challenges presented by their decisions. Soma seems to be a very intelligent person, I have a feeling he will make the right choice and support this girl regardless of her choice, one that I do not pressure or have a vested opinion in either direction, I was simply tired of hearing the abort, abort, abort, wash your hands of it and np shit being throw out there.......

I am floored at how many of you jump on to that abort wagon and seem to blame the girl for entrapment of some sort if she doesn't do what some of you fellas view as the easy way out, but it is really only easy for you boys, interesting. Man Up means be an adult about it, grow up and accept the reality of your situation as more than just her problem to fix and deal with it, accept your part in the participation of the results of your actions.

God has nothing to do with my perspectives of the actions of morality, human actions are simply what they are, responses to stimulus, how one responds to stimulus defines ones character, not ones religions beliefs. I do not believe it is morally wrong to have an abortion, I do not think it reduces ones character, I do not believe abortion is bad, what I believe it that the reality of abortion is more that just a trip to the doctor to remove a 50/50 tumor because a tumor has no potential for anything other than being parasitic whereas a fetus has potential. I am not selling life, it is what it is. Manning Up is simply growing up just as Womaning Up is growing up too; it’s facing your responsibilities head on and accepting the repercussions of their outcomes. Get over the God shit, when I say God bless you I mean, may your life find meaning and fulfillment in whatever endeavors you seek and may you find peace in your decisions that they may bring you joy in life and a sense of completion in your living however the fuck you find it, in that fucking sentiment, God Bless you all. :thumbsup:

For starters what part of this is a lack of her accepting responsibility, yeah, she got knocked up so now she will need to take the responsibility of motherhood, find a job, ask for assistance to admit she fucked up in her ability to prepare for motherhood before she allowed it to happen, put off her education and in a sense her ability to provide for herself without depending on someone else, wherein she will be beholden to handouts for her security, accept that society will look at her as a burden, an unwed mother, she will own them alright, and where will he be in all this, her accepting her responsibility? Well if she had aborted like he wanted or put the baby up for adoption, would she be where he is? (As a side, when a woman goes to a doctor she is asked if she has had any abortions, pregnancies that ended early, etc, as the effects of pregnancies do weight on the female body, regardless of fruition {scar tissue, etc}…. do they ask the same of men? like, how many women have you impregnated who aborted or who carried to term? It makes a difference to a woman’s body, it makes a difference to a woman’s mind, it just does! We are asked these questions, it matters to us, it matters to our physical definitions of our bodies’ evolution, it matters.)

So, because HE does not want the responsibility of his intercourse SHE should either, abort, give it up, or take full responsibility for the decision to keep their offspring and he should have no responsibility because he doesn’t WANT to deal with the repercussions of his actions to begin with…..What? How is it irresponsible for her to want to keep her child just because HE does not want the responsibility of it…. WTF? She must abort or adopt out because HE does not want the responsibility, do you hear what you are saying? It’s all her fault he will be a father and it is up to her to fix this for HIM, at her expense of everything, you know, had she been wearing a burka maybe she would not have tempted him to fuck her to begin with and he would not have to worry about the consequences of HIS actions, all her fault, all her decisions, all her repercussions to protect his way of life…. are you getting this? She should just abort or give it away so he does not need to suffer the injustice of unprepared for fatherhood as he really didn’t mean to become one right now and not with her, she was just for fucks sake, even his parents would have disapproved, he was never really serious, but was she? Not that that mattered, did it?

I really wish men could be impregnated and understand what it means not only to themselves (as the conceiver) but to society as being the incubator of life, and to themselves later as the ender of life, because it just didn’t seem like the right time to let this conglomeration of cells to grow. You abort a mission before it comes to fruition, once these cells develop you destroy a fetus, abortion is what you do before you bust the nut. Interesting site you linked to, I have never seen it before nor does the putting a God perspective to abortion mean squat to me, God has nothing to do with the abortion of a fetus or life, the perspectives of life (the already living body) is what makes the difference, if abortion to you is a form of birth control, well then, their you go, what is the difference between life and death to begin with…. I would hate for humanity to get to the point where we view abortion as just an extension of bc, shame, get over the whole God stuff, this isn’t about God, this is about the reality of human experience and human existence, the biology of man and the minds ability to link life to experiences therewith, you cannot remove life from pregnancy in that you decide that if it is not the appropriate time then it was never really viable anyways, lets not confuse choice with convenience.

What part of this does not imply that she should take responsibility for the decision to keep the baby, if that is the decision? In the end, he can simply walk away and throw her a couple of bucks to cover the costs of the LIFE HE CREATED TOO (in reality he can just walk away and deny, move to another state, ignore, move to another country, nothing outside of a court ordered blood test can prove his paternity and then if he really does not want to support his child he can just not work and eventually be sent to jail, on the other hand, she will always be the responsible party of this life, regardless of whether she allows it to come to fruition or not and most of the time in situation where the male just does not want to provide, the female makes due anyway). You know what SecretMethod70 I did not talk about regret for many, many years after either, it wasn’t until I got much older and realized that life may not have been as easy but it still would have been an experience to have known, I do not regret having an abortion, what I regret is not experiencing that life when I was younger, this is not about morals, this is about the reality of what an abortion places on a woman, research what happens to a woman during an abortion, better yet, go to a clinic and watch the women who have to cross a protest line with women chanting “please don’t kill your baby, please, give me your baby”….. this isn’t about morality, this IS the reality of living, and she should not have to live this reality alone as he is just as much a party to this as she is, but she will suffer the responsibility of it far more than he ever will, unless of course she dies during any procedures and all is lost or HE rears the child by himself, then he can accept full responsibility for his actions and man up to life as an adult male, or a man.

Pardon my rant......., and the five questions posted by The_Jazz seem like the five pillars to reality to me for Soma right now..... Good luck Soma, my thoughts are with you, be patient.

It sucks having to play Captain Obvious for these type of threads, huh? Glad you posted your Five Pillars, though.

...

I just assume people post shit that's real. Otherwise I'd get tired emulating you with the constant "you're an idiot, it's crap."

How are we supposed to confirm any of this shit anyway? For all we know, he's a just another Sudanese banker with a great offer.

Just pretend it's real. We can berate Soma and each other once his lady friend lets out an epic fart that was nothing but a food baby.

...

Sorry.

I get all cranky when somebody upsets my flow of "Well, I'd spike a fetus in a trash can!" during the course of a I-Accidentally-The-Whole-Thing thread.

Topics like this inevitably lead to the same circle jerk. I should have just linked the old bean directly to the last thread where I shunned god and a fetus.

...

That reminds me... whatever happened to that InfiniteLoser guy?

I actually tried to ignore the fact the OP has only posted twice in here for the fact that he may be going through something quite demanding at this point in his life, so I left a little reminder note to ease him back into this (now tug-of-war-like) discussion.

Also, I think it may be be as simple as The_Jazz put it, trying to re-address soma and give him some basic guidelines in order to not freak out.

I'm not really interested into getting into the concerns of babies and their implications toward quality of life, and what constitutes the best decision according to *expert's hand raised here, because it isn't warranted. Of course this has morphed into a discussion piece because of differing and vocal viewpoints raised by others, and then contended by those subsequent, but I just leap-frogged you all, and tried to do what The_Jazz did, only just a tad bit late (I'm always late - why, oh, why, am I always so late?).

It'd be really funny if, in the end, your girlfriend ended up being "late" as well, soma (we laugh to keep us from crying, or so I hear).

Maybe his own pregnancy scare turned out to be real.

UPDATE
(Sorry for the all caps and red text)

1. The pregnancy is doctor confirmed
2. Not sure, but she will get a paternity test. When I brought it up, she seemed completely unfazed. I'm pretty sure it's mine (but there will still be a test).
3. We're thinking of moving in together, looked at a few apartments today (I still have serious doubts about this whole thing)
4. We've only told our close friends and parents, we're certainly not making is super public.
5. Negative.

-There is a .000001% she will get an abortion
-There is a 10% chance she will put the baby up for adoption. This is what I'm hoping for.

My Objective Going Forward:
I want to convince her that adoption is best for her, the baby, and me. Are there any statistics regarding unmarried couples and unexpected pregnancies? If there are hard facts I can show her, maybe I can convince her that this is going to be really messy.

We did some math last night, and we simply can't afford this (it was depressing). The problem is that we're both getting kicked out by our parents and we have to find a place together. I'm thinking that we will move in together, and during our time spent together I can convince her just how fucked we are and maybe she'll consider adoption.

There's more on my mind that I need to post, but I have to go. Thanks again for all of the posts and information everyone!

soma: There was a statistic I remember about how it costs, on average, $12,000 a year (US-specific) to raise a 1-3-year-old, then you add 25% compounded every 5 years, and I believe the cut-off for child rearing was 20 years in this.

It was very quick, televised, and I'm half-and-half sure I saw it in 1995, so adjust for inflation. I doubt the statistic applies for every family and cause and demographic, but for the most basic of child needs (food, clothing, shelter, education, medical services) this is what it touted: 12k a year for one kid. (though, I could just be misremembering / making this whole thing up unaware of the fact that such a statistic does not exist. sorry i can't forward you a link.)

Does your city or county have a planned parenthood center? That might be a place to start. (the local library would be the first venue to refer you; your GCP (doc) would be the second.)

Go for custudy of your child and raise the little darling yourself. Hire a nice old nanny to help you. If you are in a more stable lifestyle and better off financially and have a female lawyer you may win this case. Let her pay you.
The best defense is a good offence.

yeah I was a Spanish Lit major (for whatever reason) and now I work in manufacturing. Go figure.

The kid thing - as a father-to-be myself in a somewhat different situation (committed relationship but still a Surprise (TM)) the emotions started in the same place you are at, but ended up with happiness and excitement.

HOWEVER we have had an abortion back in the day, and that was FUCKING GOD AWFUL I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Adoption isn't easy either, definitely harder than an abortion due to the whole 9-months thing. Plus she'd probably not be able to go through with it once the time came to pull the trigger. I'd love to say "go for the abortion" even though it is absolutely terrible but it ultimately comes down to whether or not she'll go through with it b/c it is her body. Kinda sucks b/c there should be a 50/50 say in the matter but you can't MAKE her get one. Also be careful about trying to force her into it b/c the harder you push for it the more she'll resist. Gotta be gentle with that one. And then be nice to her afterwords if she does go through with it, she'll be wreck.


edit: and don't worry about your parents, after the initial shock they'll come around. I would not, however, advise telling them about it at all if you do end up getting an abortion. that is NOT a pleasant conversation to have with your parents

MISCARRIAGE! I win. (sorry, that was horribly insensitive, but really, that's how i feel)

It's all over now, and I'm damn pleased.
I have my life back and am never having sex again.

Holy crap, you sure dodged a bullet.

You'll have sex again. Just don't forget your 1) rubber raincoat, and 2) have a serious conversation before bumpin' uglies about a) what birth control method she's on, and b) what happens should an accident occur.

Miscarriage? Thanks a lot, Jazz.

Now skeptical TFP is skeptical.

I didn't dodge a bullet, I dodged a nuclear bomb! ;)
But yea, that's a good check list. I'll keep that in mind if I do plan to bump uglies again...

Edit: if anyone thinks i'm making this all up and am trolling you guys, here's some more details that only someone who's going through this would know. Ok, so last week her progesterone levels were very low. if you have declining progesterone levels, that means a miscarriage is imminent.

So she had some bleeding, which prompted her to go to the doctor, where she found out she had low progetsterone levels. she then went to the doctor a few days later to see if the levels went down. we didn't get the results until this past monday, which was also the same day she got the miscarriage.

graphic: she woke up with heavy bleeding and when she was on the toilet, a bloody glob was expelled from her body.

So yea, trust me i'm not trollin'. I've been a tpf'er for many years.

So are you kicking this girl to the curb or what? Let's do an after action review about how you're gonna wise up with women.

i agree with 9er. You need to have a real good think and assess whether you really want to be with this girl after this little episode and especially with the crap she just put you through.

i suggest you do this before any of this wears off and you decide to stick your willy in her again.

wow, quite the dodge.

I am surprised I am the only one who seems to have heard miscarriage, and think that is sad, I hope she is doing ok.

To think that is a "WIN", is sad as well, personally with that kind of attitude, maybe it would be better if you get a chastity belt, keep it on until you are willing to accept potential consequences for your actions instead of jumping up and down cheering since your child got flushed via miscarriage down the toilet, and your (ex?) gf is probably hurt physically and emotionally.

Either way I hope you try to learn from this.

---------- Post added at 04:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:50 AM ----------

He put her through crap as well, they are both equally responsible for getting pregnant, and unless she said before hand, hey if I get knocked up don't worry I will get an abortion, I am not sure any guy should have an expectation of that. It is our choice as men to have sex as much as hers, and we all have to deal with any consequences.

Then again I grew up with the no ding with no ring rule.

"Wah, ah, OOOhhhhh, Wah, ah, oh, oh, oh, OOOhhhh, Wah, ah, oh...Wah, ah, OOOhhhhh, Wah, ah, Ooohhhh, oh, oh, oh, Wah, ah, oh..."

Please try to learn a little something from this.

Everyone Else: I've got $10 that says I see a post from soma in a few months regarding his girlfriend who used to be pregnant. Any takers?

true. he did put her through crap as much as she did. but if this is what you call a functional relationship, then im not sure what one is. if you cant even agree on how/when/why/who to bringi nto this world, it begs the question of compatibility given the historical context of the situation.

without question, it is still a time that he reconsider and re-evaluate this point in his life and decide which way his life should go. But agreed, it is sad that she's had a miscarriage. i couldnt imagine the emotional anguish she must be going through.

Xazy, a bloody crotch meatball is not a child.

I'm not betting against this man, I can see this thread happening sooner than later.

And also,

Yes, it certainly is sad that she had a miscarriage. She was definitely more emotionally attached to the baby.

The thought of breaking up with her has crossed my mind for sure, but at this point, she's too emotionally fragile for me to do that. I'd feel really bad if I did.

Regarding this 10$ bet floating around, I don't understanding the reasoning for it? Is it because I'm a dumbass and will continue getting into trouble? Is it because me and this girl will always have issues? I'm not mad or offended, just curious. :confused:

Also, the things I post here are my private thoughts and feelings. I didn't do a little song and dance around her when I got the news and tried to be as sensitive and supportive as possible.

And here some people thought you were doing Numfar's dance of joy


I was trying to explain that about your thoughts and feelings being posted here.

You could have fooled us.

...

Too fragile to break up with now? Oh, and a month from now will be a better time? Stop blowing sunshine up her ass. And stop playing hero. Kick her troubled ass to the curb (don't worry, she'll find another sucker) and check your pecker for a helmet the next time you head into the great unknown.

Yeah, regardless of timing, you're gonna be a dick in her mind. Just get it over with.

Break it off with her now. I'm tired of guys saying they don't want to feel bad about dumping a girl, you'll feel bad no matter what. She will get over it, just as you will. It's obvious you want to break up with her and it's even more obvious that she isn't mentally prepared for a relationship right now. In fact, you're not ready for it either if you can't accept the consequences of sex. Stop making excuses and let her go, it's now or never.

Ok guys, message received. I'm going camping this weekend with some of my guy friends and I'll see what they think about breaking up with her.

But yeah, another reason why I hesitate to break up with her now is because we have a lot of mutual friends, and I know they will all tell me I'm a shitty person for leaving her when she needs me the most (and she has been super needy since she had her miscarriage).

Anyway, I'll keep you guys updated here. I know I will always get good advice from the TFP :)

i disagree with some of the last few comments. The kid's got a choice. Let him be the one to make it. He doesnt HAVE to break up with her. He needs to do whats in his best interest, and that why he needs to have a long hard think about his situation.

getting that space on a camping trip with the boys will help.

as far as the mutual friends thing goes, they'll think she's a shittier person for cheating on you.

good luck soma

I remain skeptical. Not necessarily about you, soma. You've been around long enough that my question about you trolling us was asking a question whose answer I already knew.

I'm not 100% convinced she was ever pregnant. I don't see where you explicitely stated that you'd been to the doctor with her. If you did, obviously you're not being tricked. And based on other threads, I still see that as a real possibility.

Now, about the rest - frankly I'm disappointed in a lot of folks here. We don't treat other long-timers like this. Not cool.

But there's a kernel of wisdom from the mouths of insensitive douches: don't stick your dick in this girl again. You don't have to break up with her immediately - your Real Life friends that are telling you not to do that are right. It would make you a real asshole. And you're not one, are you?

You can stay with her for a bit before you break it off. You were already drifting apart. This is a stressful thing for any relationship, and it's going to almost certainly drive the two of you apart. There's no guidebook for this sort of thing, but you've got to give her some time to get herself back together before you break up with her. Remember the Campsite Rule of Dating - always leave the other party in better condition than you found them (usually that only applies if there's a big age difference, but I think it's relevant here).

No one is saying you have to stay with her long-term. I'm only saying don't ever have sex with her again (for obvious fertility reasons) and give her some time before you break it off. Do the right thing.

Jazz,

I have to disagree with you here. Re-read post 19. This is not a woman who has his best interests even on her radar. A woman who lives at home with her parents while going to school for a useless degree, while ringing up student loans that will never be paid off by such a useless degree, who gets knocked up and decides the best thing for her future is to raise the child, effectively abandoning her useless degree but keeping the student loans so that he can pay them off with his hot new masters degree....well, I can't envision a good future with this person.

If you can't envision a future with someone, you break up with them immediately. You owe it to yourself and them.

Sorry soma, I just envision you as thinking of 20 reasons why it's not the right time and 2 years from now, you are unhappily married to the mother of your child(ren), no support from your parents, and drowning in student loan debt. There really is nothing like getting up to go to your "9-5" knowing you have to work until 11:30 for the student loan corporation - courtesy of baby momma.

So what if it's true?

Well goddamn, my thoughts exactly.

/insensitive douche

No, I read that. After all, I got all pissy about people not reading the entire thread back in #58, and I made sure to reaquaint myself with the entire situation before my last post.

And this isn't about whether or not she's got his best interest at heart. Or your low opinion of film studies majors (FYI - I've got what I'm sure you would consider a "worthless" degree yet I'm arguably the most successful person on this board. Go figure.). Or even if he should stay with her long term. I consider those questions either asked and answered or immaterial.

At this point, we're at "WHAT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES". That's regardless of how she's treated him or if she sees a future for them. If you carefully (or even not so carefully) reread my #90 post, you'll see that I don't think they have any future together. But the woman just suffered a miscarriage and you want her kicked to the curb. Where's your compassion? Where's your sense of human decency? Don't you see that if soma breaks up with her now, he's simply adding to her sense of loss?

Hopefully you will never know anyone who suffers a miscarriage (and suffer is the right term). It's a horrible, tragic thing. Soma needs to treat her as a friend and be there as needed. He does NOT need to put his penis anywhere near her, but he needs to be there emotionally for her. Even if he doesn't share her sense of loss, he's part of the cause of it. Decent people don't inflict intentional harm on others.

As we all know, Plan9 isn't human, let alone decent, so he shouldn't feel insulted.

Okay, so it is clear we are suffering from a case of semantics.

First of all, I don't have a low opinion of Film studies majors. I said the degree is useless...does not have any value (read Return on Investment) in the real world. Yes, there are people with that degree who have leveraged it to its fullest and become very wealthy. Most who receive it, do not. OR, their success is completely detached from the actual degree itself. I believe that would bear out to be true, if I were inclined to do any research. Regardless, I stand by the statement. A fool is one who rings up massive student loan debt to get such a specialized degree, with very few jobs requiring it.

Second of all, breaking up romantically does not equal abandonment. You can state that this scare has made you see that the romantic part of your relationship needs to end because your value systems are not aligned...and you are now going to consider yourselves friends.

That declaration is FAR more upfront than stopping the romantic part, but not telling her about it - which seems to be your suggestion.

You still don't get it - this isn't about being honest and upfront about their relationship. This is about intentionally inflicting emotional harm on someone who's recently suffered a loss. Let's say that her father, who for the sake of argument she was very close to, died suddenly last week. Does the decent human being who's no longer interested in a romantic relationship break up with her, pregnancy and miscarriage aside for the moment?

No, he doesn't.

Being honest and upfront about his intentions are only going to hurt her further at this point. This seems to me to be a white lie told with the best of intentions. Again, the Campsite Rule seems to be incredibly relevant here.

Edited to add - not that it's relevant, but it's glaringly obvious that you DO actually have a low opinion of Film Study majors. But that's ok, I do too. They're up there with Philosphy majors. They're not really prepared to do much in the real world, except, you know, communicate ideas. Which, it turns out, is a skill that translates to lots of fields. But you'd never think that a Russian History major would amount to much, yet here I am.

I get it, I just disagree. There are ways to say it that define the transition and don't devastate.


When you say "majors", are you referring to the people who study Films in university? Again, I do not have a low opinion of those people. Pulled from

Film Studies Degree Programs | Online Schools & Colleges

"What Is the Estimated Salary for Film Studies Graduates?

Due to the large variation of career paths, students graduating with a film studies degree earn varying salaries. Leading directors, scriptwriters, actors and industry professionals often earn millions of dollars each year.

However, the majority of film studies graduates earn considerably less. The average film director earns approximately $35 per hour. The average film critic earns between $40,000 and $60,000 annually."

So, IF you become a film director (obviously, there are a huge number of these people), you make $70K. If you become a film critic (obviously there are a HUGE number of positions open here), you get to make 17% to 45% less than the average salary of all college graduates (which appears to be $72,000).

Still standing by my statement that going and getting $100K in student loans for that degree is completely bone-headed. Still sticking with giving those $100K of loans to baby daddy is morally bankrupt.

Russian History can be applied in a huge number of financial and political professional paths. It is far more relevant. Incidentally, do you use the "Russian History" part of your degree in your current occupation? I'm not picking a fight, I'm just curious.

"...treat her as a friend and be there as needed..." Did you steal that from the Wedding Crashers manual or something? You wanna know what helps? Honesty.

Sure, it's painful. Sure, it's bad timing. But how can you make it not painful to break up? And what would be good timing? Rip that band-aid off, baby.

Guess that makes me a monster, huh?

I'm so very tired of a world filled with good intentions and little white lies. You can't little-white-lie yourself outta this situation in good conscience. Well, unless you're a nutjob who enjoys the drama. This isn't about his long time girl gaining a few pounds or his unsatisfied desire to pound her ass, it's about a 20 year sentence and a ruined future.

I've made plenty of mistakes and told plenty of white lies and I always carried the rucksack of regret. I ditched that approach last year or so and it's been liberating.

9er said more or less what I was thinking.

Breaking up sucks no matter what. Yeah, he could wait and try to be "the nice guy", but honestly, no matter what he does, he's never going to be "the nice guy" in her eyes again, once it's over and done with. Why put off the inevitable?

After a miscarriage there is something decent about waiting til she is emotionally well. It migt take a while yes, but that does not mean you should kick her while she is down, and maybe make her have a real meltdown.

And return on investment depends on the person, if your measure of success is all about money, and not satisfaction and joy in what you do. Some people do not want to be ultra wealthy but only care about enjoying their job and having a good life. Either way he did not break up with her before because of the major and her student loans.

I think as a decent person you should wait and who knows he may still feel for her and want to remain when the scare from the potential fatherhood fades, but to leave now would be cruel.