Mirth Sequel: Help me face my fears. *Challenge*

[Mirth]

So it's 3:30AM as I type this, and I just can't go to sleep. I just can't get how to improve myself and socialize off my mind. So, I come to ask for help. I know, it's been only a few days since I made my last thread, but I don't want to waste any time on getting help and getting better.

For those that don't know me and would like to better understand me and my anti-social personality dilemma, please read my other thread, which shows my loser-ness: Settle With or Dump the girl that I don't love?

I didn't think I could break up with that girl. It's something I normally wouldn't have done. But I finally broke free of that thought and did what was best for me (and her). What I'm getting at is I'm ready to take control of my life and I'm ready to change, even if I'm late in the game at 25 years old.

Main point of thread: For those that want to help me, or those willing to, I would like for you to come up with a goal for the week that has something to do with me either talking to a stranger or something of that sort. If I do not complete the goal each week, I will know for myself that I cannot change, and I will inform you of my failure and not waste anymore of your time. If I do achieve the goal, then you will come up with a harder goal for next week. Note that I will not lie and say that I achieved the goal if I didn't. Lying to you would be of NO help to me, and I do my best not to lie intentionally.

For week one, please make it something simple. Note that I am not normal like the rest of you socially, and that a do have a bit of a negative self-image issue, although it's not as bad as it used to be. It's enough for me to have the guts and confidence to even want to attempt this. So please, make it something somewhat-easily achievable for a beginner.
Analogy: You wouldn't tell a first-time guitar player to learn the E-major barre chord to start off.


I am on a couple dating sites and social networking sites, so you could have me use that.
I am of the legal drinking age, so I can go to bars.
I do have a car so I can go to grocery stores or places with real people.
I can and WILL not talk to any of the girls at my college for the first couple of weeks. They intimidate me to no end.


You or other posters may include tips or pointers that would help me achieve the weekly goal if you so desire.

Please, serious replies only. No " *facepalms* ", no making fun of how I suck at life, etc. If I fail the week's assignment, then you can do whatever you want to your hearts content. But for now, I really want help and guidance, and I'm willing to commit.

[dippin]

I understand your frustration. But here's the thing: asking for others to set up goals so you can improve your self-confidence is a bit contradictory, don't you think?

In fact, this is a trend in most of your posts. You acknowledge that you lack confidence, friendships, intimacy, etc. and then you expect that someone will fix that for you. In your most recent post, it was all about how the girl didn't solve all your emotional problems. And so you are asking complete strangers to send you out to do stuff you should be willing to do on your own.

It is very hard to make friends and know people when you are so insecure. It is even harder when not only there are insecurity issues, but you are willing to dump your problems on someone else to fix.

Have you ever considered counseling? If that is out of the question, then at least ask yourself what you want, and go for it. Asking others for goals is just an excuse to make a half hearted effort, or something to fall on if it fails.

You've had two girlfriends by now, and you've dumped and been dumped. You should know by now that there are people that like you, and if not, if things end badly, it wont kill you.

[dlish]

getting other people to set your goals wont fix your problem. you need to do this for yourself.

but for starters, find out what you're good at. confidence will stem from there.

teach kids how to play a guitar, or help out some charities, or just chill with like minded people. just do something that will give you confidence in your abilities as a person. only then will those negative self-concious issues wither away, and you will find that your confidence will come back.

[amonkie]

Something that will help is if you realize there is no such thing as "Normal". Especially when it relates to Social interaction. You're putting building blocks in your own path by building things up to be bigger than they really are.

What about the college girls intimidates you? Answering this question may give you your own set of challenges and steps to take that will help to make taking to them possible.

[Xerxys]

Do you have $20? Get a haircut. A good one. Afterwards take a picture of yourself with a camera phone and use that photo in any of the dating sites your registered at.

[Baraka_Guru]

If you don't have a hobby (that you can share), get one.

Next, go out and find out where people get together to discuss/participate in/buy ridiculous amounts of shit for this hobby. Almost everything has a convention or a bunch of social groups.

Talk to people (both male and female). Meet new friends.

Don't try so hard. Learn to listen and to get people to talk to you. You don't need to do all of the talking. You don't even need to do that much at all.

When you meet up with people who share the same interest as you (even one thing), you'd be surprised how easy it is to socialize with them...especially if the activity deals with actually doing something directly related to it.

[Xerxys]

Originally Posted by Mirth

Please, serious replies only. No " *facepalms* ", no making fun of how I suck at life, etc. If I fail the week's assignment, then you can do whatever you want to your hearts content. But for now, I really want help and guidance, and I'm willing to commit.

I know, I know, but I just read my feeds and I had to be the first one to post this.

[ratbastid]

I think by and large, TFP is going to decline this request. I certainly am. This request just feeds the beast--it has your "self" coming from outside you, which IS the problem.

Also:

Originally Posted by Mirth

If I do not complete the goal each week, I will know for myself that I cannot change...

If you don't complete a goal, it does NOT mean you can't change. You know what it means? It means you didn't complete a goal.

Your main problem is that stuff happens, you decide what it must mean, and then you roll on as if it actually, objectively means that. Life just isn't fraught with meaning like that. Life is just life. The meaning (in your case, largely in the form of conclusions you draw about yourself) is all coming from you.

[The_Jazz]

Week 1: set your own reasonable goals. You know more about your life than we ever will. Hold yourself accountable. Keep a journal or diary if that helps.

Weeks 2-52: see above.

One other thing: you keep claiming that you're not "socially normal", whatever that means. Here's the thing you don't realize - no one is "normal". It doesn't exist. We are all socially retarded at some point and miss basic signals. You're no more or less outside the "norm" than anyone else.

[Mirth]

Hmmm, this thread totally back-fired on me...

I don't know, I thought it just would have made it easier on me if I was doing it as like, a challenge. I felt I couldn't do it for myself, that my brain needs to be tricked into thinking I'm doing it for someone else like if it were a dare. I do think there is something wrong with my brain, and unfortunately I can't prove it. Remember that the brain controls everything, what we remember, what we hear, how we speak, etc. The part that tells me to socialize without fear could be damaged.

I just thought it would be like riding a bike. I rode my bike as a child with my dad holding it up while I pedaled, running alongside me, and we did this for weeks or whatever, and then one day he just let go. I thought maybe we could do something like that where for a couple weeks you guys could give me assignments and then a couple weeks later let go and have me do it on my own. But I respect your decisions not to help if you feel that I must do it on my own...

Originally Posted by amonkie

What about the college girls intimidates you? Answering this question may give you your own set of challenges and steps to take that will help to make taking to them possible.

I'm not sure really, the girls at the university are always in groups and they seem so smart and mature. And obviously they have high ambitions if they are going to get their bachelor's degrees. The girls at the other University I used to go to in Orlando didn't make me feel that way, but these girls for some unknown reason do. Maybe because there are very few, while the other college was swarming with them.


As for the hobbies part... Other than playing drums or bass, or playing video games, which both really don't need to involve a group of people, I don't know what to say. I like flying my dad's radio-controlled model airplane things, but all of the "group" places I've been to are with guys over the age of 50 it seems, haha. I do live in a town where the elderly overpopulate everyone else. I also look on Craigslist in the Activities of Events section, and again, it's all older people stuff. I will have to think hard about where I can find events that involve younger people, other than possibly the church.

Originally Posted by Xerxys

Do you have $20? Get a haircut. A good one. Afterwards take a picture of yourself with a camera phone and use that photo in any of the dating sites your registered at.

I just got a haircut in December. I used to have longer hair (which wasn't cut since the summer), but I did get one recently and I did put up a couple new pictures recently on the dating sites. A few of my online buddies get messaged by women who initiate it, but not myself. Sucks... And when I do initiate it, they usually just don't reply.


Anyways, you may close/delete this thread, I don't think there will be any input here that I haven't gotten from my previous threads already. Thanks anyways fellas, I still <3 you all.

[Xerxys]

Well, if you have $20 to kill, then go ahead and do it again.

Now, you mentioned somewhere you had like 13,000+ posts on another forum. What is it you were talking about worth of 13,000+ posts? And more importantly what subject consumed the bulk of your posts?

[Mirth]

Originally Posted by Xerxys

Well, if you have $20 to kill, then go ahead and do it again.

Now, you mentioned somewhere you had like 13,000+ posts on another forum. What is it you were talking about worth of 13,000+ posts? And more importantly what subject consumed the bulk of your posts?

I would need a stylist more than just a barber.

And the posts were at a video-game forum. Had other boards too to talk-about non-video-game stuff. Yeah, I know, lame. It's what I enjoy though.

[Glory's Sun]

One thing you might want to stop doing is degrading yourself.

Things such as "I know, I'm lame" certainly don't help you look any better in the eyes of a lady. Confidence is a better aphrodisiac than looks any day.

You need to stop over thinking everything and just go. Slap on a pair of Nikes if you have to.

[Plan9]

Whoa, whoa, whoa... what's this?

Originally Posted by Xerxys

Do you have $20? Get a haircut. A good one. Afterwards take a picture of yourself with a camera phone and use that photo in any of the dating sites your registered at.

Camera phone? Seriously? How about a real camera. Outside. In daylight. With other people.

You don't know a damn thing about marketing your mug... do you, Xerxys?

Here, some illumination:

4 Big Myths of Profile Pictures

[snowy]

Why do you presume that everything you say or do is lame?

You seriously need to work on your own self-esteem before you look for a relationship. I think one of the reasons you are so interested in finding a relationship is because you think it will fix your self-esteem issues. I hate to rain on your parade, but it won't. Only you can establish confidence in yourself.

You presume a lot about what other people think about you. Guess what? You're probably wrong. Most people are too wrapped up in their own worlds to notice what you're doing.

And give me a break about girls pursuing BAs being ambitious. You know what they used to jokingly call a BA? The MRS. And guess what? There are still girls at universities all over the country pursuing an MRS, despite these modern times. I see it all over the place at my own university.

I really think you should see a therapist. They can offer more concrete suggestions about how to improve your self-esteem. If you are really truly interested in changing and improving yourself, it can be done, but it will take a lot of work, and it will take professional help. There is really only so much advice we can offer.

[Plan9]

Originally Posted by guccilvr

One thing you might want to stop doing is degrading yourself.

There's gotta be some kinda Charlie Brown parable in here somewhere about being overly humble is better than being a GucciLvr.

[Mirth]

Originally Posted by Plan9

Whoa, whoa, whoa... what's this?



Camera phone? Seriously? How about a real camera. Outside. In daylight. With other people.

You don't know a damn thing about marketing your mug... do you, Xerxys?

Here, some illumination:

4 Big Myths of Profile Pictures

Actually, I read that article the other day (I'm signed up for that dating site) and it actually says that a self-shot photo pics get better results.

So we were very surprised to discover that for both genders, self-shot pictures are more successful than average:

The pics with no shirts get way better results, but I don't have that kind of body. :\


Anyways, I only degrade myself because I thought acceptance was the first step to recovery. :\ And professional help isn't an option, I'd kill myself before I seen a professional.

[Glory's Sun]

Originally Posted by Plan9

There's gotta be some kinda Charlie Brown parable in here somewhere about being overly humble is better than being a GucciLvr.

NOTHING is better than being a GucciLvr.

[PonyPotato]

Originally Posted by Mirth

And professional help isn't an option, I'd kill myself before I seen a professional.

You win the prize for most idiotic statement I've read today. And I've been reading failblog and failbooking, so I've read a lot of idiotic statements today.

[Plan9]

Originally Posted by Mirth

Actually, I read that article the other day (I'm signed up for that dating site) and it actually says that a self-shot photo pics get better results.

The pics with no shirts get way better results, but I don't have that kind of body. :\

Anyways, I only degrade myself because I thought acceptance was the first step to recovery. :\ And professional help isn't an option, I'd kill myself before I seen a professional.

My point by posting that article was strictly humorous. Their stats suggest that I should showcase my ravioli-like abdominal muscles and avoid writing a lengthy profile, sticking to monosyllabic words and catch phrases. Throw in some pouty lip shots and a closeup of my off-the-wall tribal tattoo and I'm gonna be just rollin' in the vaj! Heh. I sincerely doubt that such a course of action would lead me to the kind of woman that I want to do more with than just bump rubber-covered uglies. I apologize if you took that link seriously. Really, it was just part of my larger plan to confuse Xerxys.

Common sense dictates that a shitty indoor self-shot of a dumpy guy who doesn't have much to say about himself isn't going to follow their supposed stats, bro. Grainy emo cleavage-laced coy self-shots might work for girls based strictly on meat appeal but not for male nerds. I can't imagine too many girls soaking their panties over a guy who can't be bothered to escape the box that casts the blue light long enough snap a decently lit picture.

...

Professional help isn't an option, eh? Hey, I'm cool with that. Shrinks are expensive and a liability if you want to get certain jobs. If you're not going to seek professional help, however, you must take it upon yourself to unfuck your life. I get the feeling a good portion of your largely masturbatory posts here on TFP are just attempts to connect with strangers and shoot the shit. That's cool. We all do it. Just avoid being such a whiny choad about it.

[dippin]

Originally Posted by Mirth

Anyways, I only degrade myself because I thought acceptance was the first step to recovery. :\ And professional help isn't an option, I'd kill myself before I seen a professional.

Why? And is begging total strangers to fix your problems a much better solution?

[Plan9]

Originally Posted by guccilvr

NOTHING is better than being a GucciLvr.

So... is that like being Mick Jagger? Whew, I don't wanna be like him when I'm that age.

Originally Posted by dippin

Why? And is begging total strangers to fix your problems a much better solution?

Sure, if he just wants to talk. I think a lot of people are taking this guy waaay too seriously. He's not 9/11, he's the shoe bomber.

[Mirth]

Originally Posted by Plan9

My point by posting that article was strictly humorous. Their stats suggest that I should showcase my ravioli-like abdominal muscles and avoid writing a lengthy profile, sticking to monosyllabic words and catch phrases. Throw in some pouty lip shots and a closeup of my off-the-wall tribal tattoo and I'm gonna be just rollin' in the vaj! Heh. I sincerely doubt that such a course of action would lead me to the kind of woman that I want to do more with than just bump rubber-covered uglies. I apologize if you took that link seriously. Really, it was just part of my larger plan to confuse Xerxys.

Common sense dictates that a shitty indoor self-shot of a dumpy guy who doesn't have much to say about himself isn't going to follow their supposed stats, bro. Grainy emo cleavage-laced coy self-shots might work for girls based strictly on meat appeal but not for male nerds. I can't imagine too many girls soaking their panties over a guy who can't be bothered to escape the box that casts the blue light long enough snap a decently lit picture.

...

Professional help isn't an option, eh? Hey, I'm cool with that. Shrinks are expensive and a liability if you want to get certain jobs. If you're not going to seek professional help, however, you must take it upon yourself to unfuck your life. I get the feeling a good portion of your largely masturbatory posts here on TFP are just attempts to connect with strangers and shoot the shit. That's cool. We all do it. Just avoid being such a whiny choad about it.

Oh, I didn't see the joke at first but now I do. Yeah, I always thought that the pictures of girls climbing mountains or scuba diving and stuff like that were pretty cool. I do have a picture of me playing my bass with the band at a show, but doesn't seem to have helped. Also, I didn't want to make an assumption that dating-site users had bad taste in what they like in pictures (the last time in another thread that I assumed something about a group of people, bar girls, I got my ass handed to me for that).

But basically what you said about shrinks is why I don't want to go. I can't afford a shrink, heck, I was crying at how much I was spending on my date. ($40-$50 every meet usually). I didn't know about the liability on jobs though... I thought there was a patient doctor confidentiality.

And no, this isn't a joke thread. I wish I could think of something this clever to fool everyone, but I'm not like that. Ask LoganSnake, he's known me for years and known that I've had this problem (although I have made improvements from what I used to be, if that even sounds possible.)

[Plan9]

Mirth,

Wild guess, but guys that look for girls with self-shots of their lotion-shiny butterhogs aren't in the mood for a chat about campaign finance reform or the last time they did a half marathon. Some girls pose like meat, and the meat eaters go for it. No mystery there. I can't say I've ever gone out with a girl I met on a dating site that played the sex card in their dating site profile. That's cheap... and I don't like cheap women. They attract STDs and babies and drunken exboyfriends. You don't need that. You're looking for someone who's a dating site mercenary: she's there to find a decent guy, no bullshit.

It's okay to say that dating site users have horrible. At least half of the guys on there are total scumbags... which is why it often takes the effort I put into it to assure decent girls that I'm not just trying to play hide the sausage with them after a trip to Taco Bell.

Yeah, and dating is way expensive if you do the typical dickdance routine of dinner+movie+awkward goodnight. I'd avoid that traditional goatfuck in favor of something a little more European... meeting over coffee (cheap, short operational time frame). Even braineating zombies like something on the menu from Dunkin Donuts. Make sure to bring something to talk about... that's really the most important item.

And having LoganSnake as a friend may contribute to your lack of self-esteem. He hurts my feelings all the time.

[Manic_Skafe]

Well Mirth, what are you going to do?

[Mirth]

Originally Posted by Plan9

Mirth,

Wild guess, but guys that look for girls with self-shots of their lotion-shiny butterhogs aren't in the mood for a chat about campaign finance reform or the last time they did a half marathon. Some girls pose like meat, and the meat eaters go for it. No mystery there. I can't say I've ever gone out with a girl I met on a dating site that played the sex card in their dating site profile. That's cheap... and I don't like cheap women. They attract STDs and babies and drunken exboyfriends. You don't need that. You're looking for someone who's a dating site mercenary: she's there to find a decent guy, no bullshit.

It's okay to say that dating site users have horrible. At least half of the guys on there are total scumbags... which is why it often takes the effort I put into it to assure decent girls that I'm not just trying to play hide the sausage with them after a trip to Taco Bell.

Yeah, and dating is way expensive if you do the typical dickdance routine of dinner+movie+awkward goodnight. I'd avoid that traditional goatfuck in favor of something a little more European... meeting over coffee (cheap, short operational time frame). Even braineating zombies like something on the menu from Dunkin Donuts. Make sure to bring something to talk about... that's really the most important item.

And having LoganSnake as a friend may contribute to your lack of self-esteem. He hurts my feelings all the time.

Ya know, that's exactly how I feel about the dating sites... Most of the girls are there showing off their funbags or how they can hold both ends of a poolstick with their feet. I had a pretty detailed profile, but not enough to bore a person. I put bits of my personality, hobbies, what I was doing with my life (school/work), and the occasional sentence that should make a person laugh, and left enough mystery for them to possibly want to get to know me more. I'm finding it more difficult to find someone who's a little more serious about a relationship... (even if some of you don't feel I'm ready for one, I still have to start somewhere, and I'd rather it not just be for practice)

And, I feel like there is more competition on there than in person. I say this because, there are hundreds of guys within a 25 mile radius of the girl that is looking, so she gets to be picky and choose what she likes best and go down from there. But in person, if there is a pretty girl that's at the grocery store and you're the only one in the aisle, YOU get to show her who you are, rather than her getting to choose who she wants to get to know. That is only an example, maybe a bad one, but that's kinda what's in my mind of how it works...

And I'm glad I'm not the only one who's cheap. Well, maybe you're not cheap, but I can pretend so I don't feel like I'm totally stingy.

Originally Posted by Manic_Skafe

Well Mirth, what are you going to do?

Hehe, actually, to totally contradict what I posted about women on dating sites, before I seen the last two replies on here I decided to message a girl on the dating site. She's hot, has a kid, and is looking for a relationship or casual sex (or both?) So yeah, I messaged her, but only for practice in helping me become confident enough to message more women, hopefully working my way up. I really don't care if that slut turns me down or not. I thought it was a funny message, so at least I got a laugh out of what I did.

Also, I asked my online guy friend if a certain recent photo of me was good or not. He decided to post it on a female friend of his' wall on facebook for her opinion (without my permission -_-). She's taken, and she's a 10/10, so it'll be kinda funny to see what her opinion is.

[Manic_Skafe]

...

[Plan9]

I know they make hose clamps big enough to fit around Mirth's neck. I'll see how much they are and get his address.

[Mirth]

I don't get it, what'd I do wrong? I finally managed to get some balls and message someone, even if it leads to nothing with her. Which I'd prefer. Isn't that a good start?

[Plan9]

Let's start with "if that slut" and map your attitude towards women.

[Mirth]

Originally Posted by Plan9

Let's start with "if that slut" and map your attitude towards women.

I'm sorry that our definitions differ of a woman "looking" for casual sex with people she's not interested in staying with as being a slut or not.

[Grancey]

Originally Posted by Plan9

Whoa, whoa, whoa... what's this?

Here, some illumination:

4 Big Myths of Profile Pictures

Interesting comments from some people...
Also interesting is that the three people showcased near the end of the blog, which I also found interesting, are located in my hometown. Wasn't expecting that.

[Martian]

Originally Posted by Grancey

Interesting comments from some people...
Also interesting is that the three people showcased near the end of the blog, which I also found interesting, are located in my hometown. Wasn't expecting that.

You mean directly above the comments section? Those are chosen by geolocation. I see three profiles from Ottawa, because that's where okcupid assumes I am based on my IP.

/threadjack.

[Plan9]

Originally Posted by Mirth

I'm sorry that our definitions differ of a woman "looking" for casual sex with people she's not interested in staying with as being a slut or not.

And what does that make you, chief? A daring penis/lance-toting crusader in search of a snatch-dragon to slay? Hardly, especially given your demonstrated experience and attitude. You alternate between whining about losing your manga-obsessed failmound and whatever this thread is supposed to be other than the universal hand signal for the the number 0 crudely oscillating over the shaft of a neglected erection.

Your attitude kinda reminds me of the beginning of that Office Space movie... ya know, where the nerdy white guy is stuck in traffic and thuggin' it out to gangsta rap until he sees an actual black guy and flips out, silencing the music and putting up his window / locking his doors. I'm not a genius, but I get the feeling you puff yourself up with these pejorative and adversarial definitions toward women. I'm guessing if you were in a room with this insta-family female from OkStupid, you'd act like you were reading off the script of The Waltons. Suppose this means I'm just doubting your sincerity as an asshole.

Your keyboard appears to be writing a check your real life can't summon the balls to cash. I'll let you in on something I learned a while back: there is no "us vs. them." We're all little chicken nuggets rolling around in this big bowl, bumping into each other. There are no martyrs, there is no magic. You have issues with women? It's you, no them. You don't wanna settle for someone? Don't, your first clue was that ya even thought about it. You wanna find a fuck / love on the Internet? Pick a goal and work your resources to achieve it. It's like all that old "Carpe Diem" go-west-young-man shit without the haircare products associated with our metrosexual peers. My point: we want your social success war stories, not your emo high school LiveJournal rants.

The Internet is a great place for research and a good place for conversation, but it's not really a place to come for help with your social life. A quick peek at 4Chan or WoW forums is enough evidence. Unless you're looking for real world events, it's an avoidable gaping wound on the old life hourglass.

And newsflash: It's 2010. They let women wear shoes AND vote these days. Get with the program. Everybody likes sex... yes, even the goils.

I'm starting to get you, Mirth. And it scares me. Like a dirty bucket containing a pump bottle of lotion being lowered into a hole.

Originally Posted by Martian

You mean directly above the comments section? Those are chosen by geolocation. I see three profiles from Ottawa, because that's where okcupid assumes I am based on my IP.

Say, you find any of my hopes and dreams worth shattering while you're at it?

[Shauk]

Damnit, I was comfortable being the disfunctional relationship guy on the board but this guy... sorry man, you can have my crown, my cake, my kingdom.

Your classification of women seems to objectify them, and if I had to guess, you do this because you're socially defunct to the point that women aren't people, they're just challenges. Challenges that make you self conscious, wonder if you're not good enough, and ultimately it's not about them, it's about you, and you think the only thing that would make you feel better right now is if some chick met you and spread her legs for you in acceptance since you can't find acceptance in who you are on your own.

There's a word for that. Co-dependence.

You're an incomplete person seeking completion in others. I'll tell you what I know. Girls aren't charities. They're looking for the whole package, the men who make enable them to feel love, respect, and passion.



You know what? take a vow of self improvement for a while, don't even think about sex or anything of that nature for a while. Get around girls and alter your attitude whoever you have to, to make yourself not want to hook up with them. Look down at them, brush them aside, treat them like co-workers or business associates, not love interests. Get it under control, and once you feel like you understand what it means to not feel the NEED to hook up with every hottie that passes your way, you might understand what it means to be confident and secure.

and you know what? every little bullshit thing you knock about yourself, you can change. If you feel out of shape, fix it, if you feel like your skin is bad, get a dermatologist, if you feel you can't afford the services that increase your self confidence, get a better job, and if you don't feel you have what it takes to get a good job, get a better education, find a passion that doesn't involve women.

Just my 2 cents, again.

[archetypal fool]

Mirth: It's very uncanny how similar your self-image is to what mine was a couple of years ago. Everything you typed, from the frank and harsh self-criticism to the analyzing of what is "normal" social behavior, is exactly what I would have stated if I had gone this route (posted for help on TFP) rather than my own. You say you don't consider yourself a person of "normal" social ability, and so you think that "normal" people won't understand what you're going through, but I identify very much with you; for this reason I hope you will really listen to what I have to say. Today I'm more content than I think I've ever been, and trust me, I never thought life could be this way for me.

Up in post nine, The_Jazz was spot on in terms of whether there's a "normal" when it comes to social behavior, so I'll skip that lecture and go straight to the point. To escape the anguish and loneliness I was feeling (which was very similar to what you've described), the first thing I did was dedicate myself to getting healthy (at the time I weighed 260 lb); this meant going to the gym unflinchingly, modifying my diet, etc.. In 6 months I lost 50 lb and acquired a fairly athletic/muscular body type; needless to say, my self-esteem was boosted tremendously just from that.

Unfortunately, getting healthy and in shape was far easier than the other changes I had to make; namely, making myself comfortable enough to converse with strangers. To do this, I simply immersed myself in places where I knew there'd be people. Since I was in college at the time, this meant any of the dozens of events that took place every month (e.g., concerts of all genres, club/organized events). As a musician, I especially enjoyed the music events since those were the people I thought I'd have the easiest time conversing with. Once there, I'd come up with some friendly funny/witty general/relevant observation about whatever seemed fittest, then I'd recite it to any near-by person with-whom I made eye contact; people were always receptive to my attempts at conversation, and I never encountered any rudeness or spite. I won't lie, at first it was absolute anguish; there was nothing more discouraging for my cause than having a conversation die after just a couple of exchanges. When things didn't work, I simply moved on and tried again, learning from the mistake I'd made just before, or I'd come up with a different approach for pushing the topic. I forced myself to NEVER dwell on the failure, and always strive to keep the conversation flowing.

There were times early on when I wanted to stop because of the disappointment, but I pushed on anyway, repeating the same strategy probably hundreds of times. I did it in the grocers, in class, at the bank, in the gym, in line at Subways, and even in the park while jogging; it got to the point where I would reach out to people without any initiative, simply out of habit. Then one day, just a few months after I'd started the campaign, it dawned on me: I could finally converse freely with people. I couldn't believe how my personality evolved and presented itself given the tools and experience to relate and speak to others. Mind you, I wasn't totally comfortable around them, but I could come up with things to say, and I could keep the conversation flowing as long as need be. At this point, the transition from talking to strangers to developing friendships was easy. I simply conversed with the same people who had similar interests, became very familiar/comfortable around and to them, exchanged numbers then let nature take its course.

An important note, after reading Shauk's recent post, is that, when conversing with women, I never did so for the purpose of beginning a relationship; I treated girls just as I did guys, with intent to hone my skills and form friendships. That vow of self-improvement that Shauk mentions is essencially what I did in a nut shell. It's well understood that until one is happy with oneself, one will never find happiness in others (several members have already pointed this out), so trying to start a relation before I was ready would only have hindered my cause.

A quick personal fact about me, which will hopefully strengthen my case: When I started the campaign I was 21 years old and a virgin - no, worse than that, I'd never kissed a girl, and I could only recall two times when I'd even touched one before. Now, I made sure when I started the campaign to not discriminate between conversation partners based on sex; after all, what good is it if I'm only comfortable around other men? By the time I was making friends as described above, I was very comfortable around women (I remember thinking, "hmm... they are just people after all."). Imagine my surprise when one of the female friends I'd recently made took the initiative and introduced me to an amazing part of life that I'd missed out on all those years.

To summarize, it's going to take tremendous work on your part to escape the gravity of that black hole that's keeping you from being happy, but you have to accept that it's the only way to make things better. You have to force yourself out there, but the payoff in the end is by far worth the pain of the start. I know you already appreciate this, and I commend you for posting and sharing with us this personal topic.

[monkeysugar]

I have a challenge for you, but for one day only. For one day, I challenge you to find things that you like about yourself, no matter what you might think anyone else might think about it If it's something you're into, that's fucking awesome. Be into it because you love to do it. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. Give yourself compliments. Sweet Jesus...learn to like yourself, then learn to love yourself. If you're a badass drummer and bass player, or even if you suck at it, it doesn't matter. If you like it and you like how you feel when you're doing it, *That is all that should matter.* In addition to that, you are flat out, absolutely not fucking allowed to bash yourself, talk down about yourself, post anything of a self-depricating nature or make yourself feel like a piece of shit. For one day, it's all about YOU and what you like about yourself. Once you have a day down, your next challenge is two days. Once you hit a week, you get a new challenge.

[LoganSnake]

Before y'all start dispensing advice, please keep in mind that none of it will matter (ever, ever) until Mirth addresses one major issue first. I'm sure you all already know what it is.

His self esteem is near 0 Kelvin - absolute zero. If it were any lower, he would be too embarrassed to look at his reflection in the mirror. I'm not saying it in jest, I'm simply stating a fact. Whatever advice you have regarding that -that is the main issue. Address it first.

Everything. Every little problem. Every big problem. Every sentence that may be deemed facepalm worthy that stems from the way his brain works has roots in his self esteem. Fix that and you'll fix Mirth.

And that's all I have to say about that. </Gump>

[Plan9]

Hell, I think he needs to get his emo ass kicked a few times.

He'll either be horribly maimed or learn to stand on his own.

Nothing builds more self-esteem faster than flexing the will to live.

[Mirth]

Originally Posted by Plan9

And what does that make you, chief? A daring penis/lance-toting crusader in search of a snatch-dragon to slay? Hardly, especially given your demonstrated experience and attitude. You alternate between whining about losing your manga-obsessed failmound and whatever this thread is supposed to be other than the universal hand signal for the the number 0 crudely oscillating over the shaft of a neglected erection.

Your attitude kinda reminds me of the beginning of that Office Space movie... ya know, where the nerdy white guy is stuck in traffic and thuggin' it out to gangsta rap until he sees an actual black guy and flips out, silencing the music and putting up his window / locking his doors. I'm not a genius, but I get the feeling you puff yourself up with these pejorative and adversarial definitions toward women. I'm guessing if you were in a room with this insta-family female from OkStupid, you'd act like you were reading off the script of The Waltons. Suppose this means I'm just doubting your sincerity as an asshole.

Your keyboard appears to be writing a check your real life can't summon the balls to cash. I'll let you in on something I learned a while back: there is no "us vs. them." We're all little chicken nuggets rolling around in this big bowl, bumping into each other. There are no martyrs, there is no magic. You have issues with women? It's you, no them. You don't wanna settle for someone? Don't, your first clue was that ya even thought about it. You wanna find a fuck / love on the Internet? Pick a goal and work your resources to achieve it. It's like all that old "Carpe Diem" go-west-young-man shit without the haircare products associated with our metrosexual peers. My point: we want your social success war stories, not your emo high school LiveJournal rants.

The Internet is a great place for research and a good place for conversation, but it's not really a place to come for help with your social life. A quick peek at 4Chan or WoW forums is enough evidence. Unless you're looking for real world events, it's an avoidable gaping wound on the old life hourglass.

And newsflash: It's 2010. They let women wear shoes AND vote these days. Get with the program. Everybody likes sex... yes, even the goils.

I'm starting to get you, Mirth. And it scares me. Like a dirty bucket containing a pump bottle of lotion being lowered into a hole.



Say, you find any of my hopes and dreams worth shattering while you're at it?

Man... I feel retarded because I did not understand about 85% of that message, haha. A few things I got were that women are real people too, and I'm not good enough for them yet until I improve myself. Or something like that.

I'm not sure of the "everybody likes sex" part. The girl I dated didn't seem to care about getting it. I just thought, to advertise to the world that you were looking for sex kinda seemed slutty, that's all.

Originally Posted by Shauk

Damnit, I was comfortable being the disfunctional relationship guy on the board but this guy... sorry man, you can have my crown, my cake, my kingdom.

Your classification of women seems to objectify them, and if I had to guess, you do this because you're socially defunct to the point that women aren't people, they're just challenges. Challenges that make you self conscious, wonder if you're not good enough, and ultimately it's not about them, it's about you, and you think the only thing that would make you feel better right now is if some chick met you and spread her legs for you in acceptance since you can't find acceptance in who you are on your own.

There's a word for that. Co-dependence.

You're an incomplete person seeking completion in others. I'll tell you what I know. Girls aren't charities. They're looking for the whole package, the men who make enable them to feel love, respect, and passion.



You know what? take a vow of self improvement for a while, don't even think about sex or anything of that nature for a while. Get around girls and alter your attitude whoever you have to, to make yourself not want to hook up with them. Look down at them, brush them aside, treat them like co-workers or business associates, not love interests. Get it under control, and once you feel like you understand what it means to not feel the NEED to hook up with every hottie that passes your way, you might understand what it means to be confident and secure.

and you know what? every little bullshit thing you knock about yourself, you can change. If you feel out of shape, fix it, if you feel like your skin is bad, get a dermatologist, if you feel you can't afford the services that increase your self confidence, get a better job, and if you don't feel you have what it takes to get a good job, get a better education, find a passion that doesn't involve women.

Just my 2 cents, again.

I shall accept the crown! But I will hand it off to w4r10ck, he seems to need it more than me.

Anyways, I really liked that post. I hate to admit, but women are just different to me, you're right on target with that. In realizing this now, I have made the effort to change that. (See bottom of my reply.) Sort of like, practice. And yes, I do feel like I need a woman to complete me... It's a bad thought process that I have to let go of, even though I feel like the only thing I'm missing in life are friends and a girlfriend. I'm going to try to focus on friends first, though.

As for the whole package though... In the things you listed, I feel like I do have those qualities. It's just that I usually never get that far to be able to prove it.

As for focusing on self-improvement, yeah, I do need to do that first and foremost. But the not focusing on sex thing is tough. (See bottom of reply again for this). But yeah, mentally I need to fix myself, and physically fixing myself would be a bonus, at least in building confidence.

Thanks for the reply!

Originally Posted by archetypal fool

Mirth: It's very uncanny how similar your self-image is to what mine was a couple of years ago. Everything you typed, from the frank and harsh self-criticism to the analyzing of what is "normal" social behavior, is exactly what I would have stated if I had gone this route (posted for help on TFP) rather than my own. You say you don't consider yourself a person of "normal" social ability, and so you think that "normal" people won't understand what you're going through, but I identify very much with you; for this reason I hope you will really listen to what I have to say. Today I'm more content than I think I've ever been, and trust me, I never thought life could be this way for me.

Up in post nine, The_Jazz was spot on in terms of whether there's a "normal" when it comes to social behavior, so I'll skip that lecture and go straight to the point. To escape the anguish and loneliness I was feeling (which was very similar to what you've described), the first thing I did was dedicate myself to getting healthy (at the time I weighed 260 lb); this meant going to the gym unflinchingly, modifying my diet, etc.. In 6 months I lost 50 lb and acquired a fairly athletic/muscular body type; needless to say, my self-esteem was boosted tremendously just from that.

Unfortunately, getting healthy and in shape was far easier than the other changes I had to make; namely, making myself comfortable enough to converse with strangers. To do this, I simply immersed myself in places where I knew there'd be people. Since I was in college at the time, this meant any of the dozens of events that took place every month (e.g., concerts of all genres, club/organized events). As a musician, I especially enjoyed the music events since those were the people I thought I'd have the easiest time conversing with. Once there, I'd come up with some friendly funny/witty general/relevant observation about whatever seemed fittest, then I'd recite it to any near-by person with-whom I made eye contact; people were always receptive to my attempts at conversation, and I never encountered any rudeness or spite. I won't lie, at first it was absolute anguish; there was nothing more discouraging for my cause than having a conversation die after just a couple of exchanges. When things didn't work, I simply moved on and tried again, learning from the mistake I'd made just before, or I'd come up with a different approach for pushing the topic. I forced myself to NEVER dwell on the failure, and always strive to keep the conversation flowing.

There were times early on when I wanted to stop because of the disappointment, but I pushed on anyway, repeating the same strategy probably hundreds of times. I did it in the grocers, in class, at the bank, in the gym, in line at Subways, and even in the park while jogging; it got to the point where I would reach out to people without any initiative, simply out of habit. Then one day, just a few months after I'd started the campaign, it dawned on me: I could finally converse freely with people. I couldn't believe how my personality evolved and presented itself given the tools and experience to relate and speak to others. Mind you, I wasn't totally comfortable around them, but I could come up with things to say, and I could keep the conversation flowing as long as need be. At this point, the transition from talking to strangers to developing friendships was easy. I simply conversed with the same people who had similar interests, became very familiar/comfortable around and to them, exchanged numbers then let nature take its course.

An important note, after reading Shauk's recent post, is that, when conversing with women, I never did so for the purpose of beginning a relationship; I treated girls just as I did guys, with intent to hone my skills and form friendships. That vow of self-improvement that Shauk mentions is essencially what I did in a nut shell. It's well understood that until one is happy with oneself, one will never find happiness in others (several members have already pointed this out), so trying to start a relation before I was ready would only have hindered my cause.

A quick personal fact about me, which will hopefully strengthen my case: When I started the campaign I was 21 years old and a virgin - no, worse than that, I'd never kissed a girl, and I could only recall two times when I'd even touched one before. Now, I made sure when I started the campaign to not discriminate between conversation partners based on sex; after all, what good is it if I'm only comfortable around other men? By the time I was making friends as described above, I was very comfortable around women (I remember thinking, "hmm... they are just people after all."). Imagine my surprise when one of the female friends I'd recently made took the initiative and introduced me to an amazing part of life that I'd missed out on all those years.

To summarize, it's going to take tremendous work on your part to escape the gravity of that black hole that's keeping you from being happy, but you have to accept that it's the only way to make things better. You have to force yourself out there, but the payoff in the end is by far worth the pain of the start. I know you already appreciate this, and I commend you for posting and sharing with us this personal topic.

That was a very inspiring story and a great post in general.

In response, let's see... Well, the college thing is a little bit out of the question for me. I don't go to our main campus (3 hours away), and our campus is extremely small. ("Campus currently serves approximately 738 students, or 3% of the university's student body."). With that said, they have 3 events in the beginning of the semester and 3 at the end on this campus, which I actually attend all of them, because I'm on the campus anyways at those times. The events consist of them putting up a little table with food and drinks, haha, and there's maybe 10 people that walk in, grab some grub and walk right out. Sucks. As far as other events I can attend in the area... I'll just have to look around. I live in a mostly small town, surrounded by small towns up until 200 miles, so there aren't a lot of events that I'm aware of. But I will try to get more information on any events that we may have that I don't know about.

But like you said, you started to make conversation with people everywhere, failing or not, which is something I cannot make an excuse for. I should attempt to do that. I'd feel better doing that in the town of my college, so I'd feel there's less of a chance of running into them again if things go sour, haha. But I must highly consider talking to strangers to get better at socializing... It seems like the main thing I need to do to improve myself.

For the record, I got ya beat. I got my first kiss when I was 24 and lost my v-card at 24 too, and nothing has happened since.

With that said, I know I'm "supposed" to take things slow, in better improving myself... But my mind keeps telling me that I'm running out of time for that. I want to have kids someday (don't laugh people ) and the older I get, the less time on this Earth I will have to spend with my kids. Sounds retarded, I know, but that's what's in my mind why I'm trying to find someone quickly. But I realize I can't find someone unless I fix myself first.

Thank you greatly for your reply too.

Originally Posted by monkeysugar

I have a challenge for you, but for one day only. For one day, I challenge you to find things that you like about yourself, no matter what you might think anyone else might think about it If it's something you're into, that's fucking awesome. Be into it because you love to do it. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. Give yourself compliments. Sweet Jesus...learn to like yourself, then learn to love yourself. If you're a badass drummer and bass player, or even if you suck at it, it doesn't matter. If you like it and you like how you feel when you're doing it, *That is all that should matter.* In addition to that, you are flat out, absolutely not fucking allowed to bash yourself, talk down about yourself, post anything of a self-depricating nature or make yourself feel like a piece of shit. For one day, it's all about YOU and what you like about yourself. Once you have a day down, your next challenge is two days. Once you hit a week, you get a new challenge.

There are plenty of things I like about myself, I suppose. I like my smile (even with the two vampire teeth ), I like how thoughtful I am in person, I like my politeness in person, as you said the badass bass/drummer part, I like that about myself, I like my sense of humour (although sometimes it's a little too crude), I like my work ethics. Well, I'm sure there's more, but I can't think of em at the moment. But yeah, I have to challenge myself to stop beating myself up, that's for sure. I will start that right about... (I need to take growth hormones) ...now!

Originally Posted by LoganSnake

Before y'all start dispensing advice, please keep in mind that none of it will matter (ever, ever) until Mirth addresses one major issue first. I'm sure you all already know what it is.

His self esteem is near 0 Kelvin - absolute zero. If it were any lower, he would be too embarrassed to look at his reflection in the mirror. I'm not saying it in jest, I'm simply stating a fact. Whatever advice you have regarding that -that is the main issue. Address it first.

Everything. Every little problem. Every big problem. Every sentence that may be deemed facepalm worthy that stems from the way his brain works has roots in his self esteem. Fix that and you'll fix Mirth.

And that's all I have to say about that. </Gump>

Yeah, I'm going to start working on that, as I stated in this post.

And Forrest Gump is my favorite movie.

Originally Posted by Plan9

Hell, I think he needs to get his emo ass kicked a few times.

He'll either be horribly maimed or learn to stand on his own.

Nothing builds more self-esteem faster than flexing the will to live.

You're gonna have to get a group of people then, I'm 3 and 0 in fights


-----------------------------------------------------

Anyways, while I'm doing this self-improvement, is it okay if I try to hook-up with women? Like I said earlier, with how old I am, I feel like I've missed out on my "teenage" sexual years. I've only had sex twice... I mean yeah, if I found a girl right now that wanted me to spend the rest of her life with and I liked her, I wouldn't care about getting any nooky. But I'm single and curious right now. I want to know what it feels like again, because I just don't remember. That girl I messaged earlier on the dating site, before I read all these replies, actually laughed at my joke message and asked me what I'd like to know about her (Part of the message I said "Teach me everything you know " (which I was trying to make it seem like I mean about sex). So ya, I may have the chance to hook-up with her?

So final question... would this get in the way of my self-improving? Should I back down now and focus ONLY on the improving myself? This seems like an opportunity to make myself feel more confident possibly.