it's a bookstore, NOT a library

[squeeeb]

it really rubs my rhubarb when i see people in the bookstore lounging with their cup of coffee, bending a book back, taking notes, using the bookstore for research, ruining merchandise, etc.

you wanna read the book a bit, see if it's worth buying, cause it sucks to drop 20 bucks on a book you end up ditching after 10 pages? hell yeah, do that. read a page or two, see if it "gets you" and if you really want it. but don't sit in the coffee area with a stack of magazines and books, reading, hanging out, taking notes, whatever, drink your coffee then get up and leave, leaving all that stuff behind.

you want to do some research? go to the library, that is what the library is for. you want to hang out and read a book but not take it home? go to the library. you want to take your kids somewhere and let them run around loose? library.

it seems some people don't understand the concept of a business, how it is there to sell things and make money.

if i ran a bookstore, there would be no shenanigans like that. i'd rather "lose customers" than have a bunch of people ruining my stock and not paying for it.

grrrrrr, humans.

[shakran]

If the bookstore does not want people reading while sipping on coffee in their store, then why do they have a coffee bar, and easy chairs placed in reading nooks throughout the store?

The reality is that few people are going to read the whole book there at the store. And if it's good, they'll buy it. And even if they don't, people like me who go in and drop $200 on books because we're book nerds will make up for it

[levite]

Nope. You lost me. I love the chance to go to a bookstore, plop down, and read a bunch of stuff in an easy chair. If I like something, chances are it will go home with me if I can afford it. But I read too much, too fast to be able to afford to buy everything I read. If the bookstore is good enough to put out chairs and host a coffee bar, far be it from me to refuse the opportunity.

[Charlatan]

You should come to Asia. Most bookstores shrink wrap their books.

Shakran is right though, the larger bookstore chains brought in comfy chairs and coffee and encouraged people to lounge and read.

[Jetée]

The atmosphere of a general bookstore is conducive to anyone garnering a gradual and elevating sense of ease, repose, and regard to communing with the literature that is abundant around them. It invites the consumer to believe that the shop is a comfortable release for them. As a consequence of this welcoming ambiance, it can result in capturing more return consumers that truly love books and have no qualms in spending an hour on the floor, then leaving with multiple volumes afterwards.

I'm sure some of the bigger chains know of the marketing aspect of this, and perhaps it is why it's employed nearly nationwide throughout North America, Japan, Germany, & France. (Britain's another matter; they sometimes charge a nominal fee to enter a bookstore if you plan to spend more than 15 min. inside)

[dippin]

There is a reason so many of the larger bookstores have included lounge areas, comfy chairs and coffee shops. First of all, it sets them apart from the smaller stores and attracts more customers in. Not only that, but it also brings the internet customers in. People who know exactly what they want and don't need to browse through stuff can mostly get good deals online that no brick and mortar store can match, but those who are still undecided will prefer the cozy place.

But the key thing is that margins on coffee, pastries and so on which are consumed while there are much, much larger than on the sale of a single book. Because the fact is that the profit margin for selling used books online is much, much larger than the profit margin for selling new books on a brick and mortar store, and so they have to adapt. And they adapt by catering to the crowd who will come in, read major parts of a book, buy a coffee, a pastry, and maybe even get that CD that has been playing on the background.

[vanblah]

When was the last time you visited a library? Most of them have had their budgets cut so far back that they hardly have money to spend on new books--let alone bestsellers and modern research materials.

I've worked in large chain bookstores as well as a mom-and-pop store. This was 20 years ago BEFORE coffee shops inside the store. Bookstores ENCOURAGE people to lounge around and read.

[khe1138]

While everyone makes a valid point, I ultimately have to side with Squeeeb on this one. I couldn't tell you how many times I ended up not buying a book because they had food smudges on them from some careless reader, and on three different occasions I've seen people spill a drink on the book they were looking at and then get up and leave without buying it. If someone is going to ruin a book I'd much rather it be a libraries than one I might possibly be interested in buying.

[squeeeb]

Originally Posted by vanblah

When was the last time you visited a library? .............

today actually.


and i understand the concept of the comfy chairs and coffee, i'm not arguing with that. if they didn't attract and help business, the bookstores wouldn't have them. i just get upset when i see people abuse it and treat a bookstore like a library.

i knew a chick who worked at borders. a guy once asked her if they had a xerox machine so he could copy some things out of a book. i have seen people with a stack of books opened, spines bent back, taking notes and doing homework or something.

ive seen a guy sitting in the comfy chair, bending the book back, reading, like he was in his living room. no, he didn't buy the book. why should he?

THOSE are the people that bother me.

[Hektore]

I was told by a Borders employee that it was perfectly acceptable to pick up a book and go sit and read. Coffee or not. They pointed out what others have, that's what all those big comfy chairs are for. You have to remember damaged or lost merchandise is a write- off(IIRC).

[Martian]

squeeeb, I'm not really sure I understand your objection to this.

If you don't like people reading at the bookstore, don't do it. What difference does it make to you if other people do? How does this negatively impact your life?

Clearly the staff and store owners don't particularly care. They create an environment conducive to such things. I can only assume that they've run the numbers and figured out that such an environment encourages more purchases and offsets the losses.

[Grancey]

Originally Posted by Charlatan

You should come to Asia. Most bookstores shrink wrap their books.

This would be a dream for me. Maybe someday.

[Manic_Skafe]

Originally Posted by dippin

But the key thing is that margins on coffee, pastries and so on which are consumed while there are much, much larger than on the sale of a single book. Because the fact is that the profit margin for selling used books online is much, much larger than the profit margin for selling new books on a brick and mortar store, and so they have to adapt. And they adapt by catering to the crowd who will come in, read major parts of a book, buy a coffee, a pastry, and maybe even get that CD that has been playing on the background.

Spot on. I should also add that after having spent a few years working for a major retailer of books, they couldn't care less about damages or even theft. They've got a stronghold on the market because they've either bought up or pushed out the competition and they've got the publishers in their pocket. They couldn't care less if you lounge and read because with every book sold, they've made several thousand times over cost. It's a racket, really.

You should also know for the next time you spot a cop patrolling in a bookstore, chances are that they aren't there to protect the merchandise but to keep the child molesters and dudes who are looking to hookup in the bathrooms away.

Lounge away.

[SecretMethod70]

Having worked in a big corporate bookstore, I can sympathize with both sides on this issue.

It's true, if the companies didn't want people to stick around and browse through the books, they wouldn't have put the comfortable chairs and coffee shops and tables there.

On the other hand, you'd be surprised how many people *do* read whole books in the store without purchasing anything. Overall, that loss is probably quite small compared to the gains from providing comfort to customers. As a worker though, it gets incredibly frustrating to see the same person come in every Tuesday night, grab a stack of 10 books, eventually settle on one and read it for the next 3 hours until they're kicked out because the store is closing, leaving their mess of books on the table for someone else to clean up. Next Tuesday, they come back and get a new stack of books, including the book they were reading the previous week so that they can finish it.

90% of people are perfectly fine and reasonable, but that other 10%.... you have no idea how incredibly frustrating they can be.

---------- Post added at 06:00 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:52 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Manic_Skafe

Spot on. I should also add that after having spent a few years working for a major retailer of books, they couldn't care less about damages or even theft. They've got a stronghold on the market because they've either bought up or pushed out the competition and they've got the publishers in their pocket. They couldn't care less if you lounge and read because with every book sold, they've made several thousand times over cost. It's a racket, really.

You should also know for the next time you spot a cop patrolling in a bookstore, chances are that they aren't there to protect the merchandise but to keep the child molesters and dudes who are looking to hookup in the bathrooms away.

Lounge away.

The one thing I disagree with here is that they don't care about theft. Granted, more could be done, but when I worked at the major bookstore there was a pretty decent emphasis on preventative security measures and spotting theft in action.

That said - and I believe this is probably true for any retailer - there was more of an emphasis on internal theft than on theft from visitors. The store I worked at was one of the few that didn't have cameras, but all newer stores do, and they're primarily to catch employees stealing (which is why they also exist in receiving and the break room).

It's annoying to be treated like a criminal by the company you work for.

[vainღ♥♡jane]

i can agree with you on some points. i think its fine to go to bookstores and read. i do it all the time. however, i hate seeing people eat over books, getting crumbs and tea stains in them; the worst part is them bending the spine. it may just be me, but the best part about of buying a new book is breaking in the spine myself! i don't want to buy a book that is already broken in.

anyway, i got to my local bookstore and read almost everyday. i normally read my favorite magazines for free. however, i also have a membership card, and i buy books almost twice a month. i am a good customer and i always come back for purchases so the staff never has a problem with my raiding their magazines lol. and i would never eat over a book. that is just so gross. no one wants to buy stained, greasy books at full price.

[Cynthetiq]

Originally Posted by Charlatan

You should come to Asia. Most bookstores shrink wrap their books.

Shakran is right though, the larger bookstore chains brought in comfy chairs and coffee and encouraged people to lounge and read.

and their MAGAZINES!!!!!!!!!!

I can't tell you how infuriating it was...

One of the dirty secrets of bookstores is that some if not many of the books are on a consignment type basis. The bookstore gets to return it to the publisher for credit by tearing off the cover and sending a stack of covers to the publisher. Newsstands work this way as well for magazines and newspapers.

I was actually thinking about this when I was reading this article Tech Is Too Cheap to Meter: It's Time to Manage for Abundance, Not Scarcity about

Free: The Future of a Radical Price by Wired Editor in Chief Chris Anderson

Free: The Future of a Radical Price by Wired Editor in Chief Chris Anderson

. While it is true that something there is free, there are other items that are not which get purchased like the coffee.

[daysleeper]

Originally Posted by Charlatan

You should come to Asia. Most bookstores shrink wrap their books.

lol.

[roachboy]

thought about the op. don't see the problem.

[LoganSnake]

So first it's the automatic check-out counters that bug you, now it's the people reading books at a book store. What else? Newspaper bins instead of man-operated newspaper stands?


Why do you care so much about how other people make their money?

[genuinegirly]

Bookstores encourage this behavior by offering cafes and comfortable couches in nearly every section. Sorry, I have no pity for someone who designs their business around pretending to be a library that encourages you to eat with a book.


Another thing I disagree with about your opening statement. Children should not be allowed to run around freely in a library, either. Even less so than an establishment where it's a given that you'll pay for the books that they destroy.

[Psycho Dad]

Bookstores take a dim view of one taking a Playboy back to a chair and spending the afternoon with it though. Or maybe it's the masturbation that bothers them.

[Xerxys]

Originally Posted by LoganSnake

So first it's the automatic check-out counters that bug you, now it's the people reading books at a book store. What else? Newspaper bins instead of man-operated newspaper stands?


Why do you care so much about how other people make their money?

Not speaking for him, but in general, because folk like me wanna hear it ...

[LoganSnake]

I didn't ask why he posts it, I asked why he cares.

[JumpinJesus]

Originally Posted by LoganSnake

I didn't ask why he posts it, I asked why he cares.

Why do you care so much about his rants?

[Punk.of.Ages]

I don't really see the problem here either. I think the whole coffee shop in a bookstore vibe is pretty rad actually...

You're right, it's not a library. Bookstores are much more relaxed and fun to be in.

[LoganSnake]

Originally Posted by JumpinJesus

Why do you care so much about his rants?

Is curiosity forbidden on TFP?

[squeeeb]

Originally Posted by LoganSnake

So first it's the automatic check-out counters that bug you, now it's the people reading books at a book store. What else? Newspaper bins instead of man-operated newspaper stands?


Why do you care so much about how other people make their money?

i don't care how other people make their money, and i actually don't care about auto check out machines or people reading books at the bookstore.

i just wanted to start some conversations.

and what does auto check out counters and people reading books have to do with anyone making money? i don't see the connection.

[dd3953]

it's funny, i don't mind the dude reading the book, or the chick with 12 open doing her homework, but i can't bring myself to do it. i check out a book longer enough to figure out if i wanna buy it, then i buy it and roll out. i guess it kinda makes me feel like i'm stealing and everyone walking past is thinking "so is she gonna buy that or what?"

i know they brought the chairs in so people can do just that, sit and read for free, but i won't be one of them.

[Baraka_Guru]

Perhaps this is why these big chain bookstores have fallen away from relevancy as a good place to sell books to the reading public.

It's bad enough that publishers pretty much sell their products on consignment at these places. It's even worse when the returned stock comes back doggy-eared and with the spines cracked. It makes it more difficult to resell them to Wal-mart, Costco, Amazon, etc.

At this rate, patrons of these stores will only be able to leaf through bestsellers and potboilers. Perhaps that's what most of them want.

Hey, more room for scented candles and yoga mats. Yay!

[LoganSnake]

Originally Posted by squeeeb

and what does auto check out counters and people reading books have to do with anyone making money? i don't see the connection.

In the former you argued about them replacing real life workers, removing jobs. In the latter you argued about bookstores losing money by customers reading and not buying books.

You've come across quite passionate in your stances in both topics, so I assumed a higher overall theme. After your explanation, however, I see that it was just for a discussion. Carry on.

[SecretMethod70]

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

At this rate, patrons of these stores will only be able to leaf through bestsellers and potboilers. Perhaps that's what most of them want.

Hey, more room for scented candles and yoga mats. Yay!

This was one of my biggest disappointments about working in a book store. You're more right than you know.

Originally Posted by vainღ♥♡jane

i am a good customer and i always come back for purchases so the staff never has a problem with my raiding their magazines lol. and i would never eat over a book. that is just so gross. no one wants to buy stained, greasy books at full price.

The good customers never bothered us. The sad thing is how many people come in on a weekly basis (or sometimes even more frequently than that!) and never buy a single book. And yes, they eat over the books too, sometimes ruining them.

It's true, the book stores bring it on themselves, but that doesn't make it any less annoying for the people who work there.

[Zeraph]

I would disagree with OP sentiments. It appears to be good business sense to let people do that. It's a lot like bars offering free peanuts and pretzels. It's something that get's the hunger for more up (hopefully resulting in a sale) and looks good to other customers because the place looks more successful with more people in it. It's almost like free advertising and it creates loyalty to some extent. Some of those people you see there every week that don't buy anything may just be tight on cash because of college...but once they get out the may very well get a good job and start spending an exceptional amount of money there.

[fast1]

Originally Posted by Zeraph

I would disagree with OP sentiments. It appears to be good business sense to let people do that. It's a lot like bars offering free peanuts and pretzels. It's something that get's the hunger for more up (hopefully resulting in a sale) and looks good to other customers because the place looks more successful with more people in it. It's almost like free advertising and it creates loyalty to some extent. Some of those people you see there every week that don't buy anything may just be tight on cash because of college...but once they get out the may very well get a good job and start spending an exceptional amount of money there.

hey i totally agree with you

[DaniGirl]

Originally Posted by shakran

If the bookstore does not want people reading while sipping on coffee in their store, then why do they have a coffee bar, and easy chairs placed in reading nooks throughout the store?

I agree, if they didn't want you to stop and read a book they wouldn't be so accommodating. Also its not like they can read the whole book right there in the book store, it gets them hooked so they want to buy it. I don't know why it should irritate anyone.

[Lindy]

Originally Posted by Manic_Skafe

....because with every book sold, they've made several thousand times over cost. It's a racket, really.

Hard to believe that a $50 book costs the store only a couple of pennies (or less.)

Lindy