Do I have to say it isn't a date?
 

I can't believe I am writing this thread, but I need a little advice. I'm not going to write this out in a paragraph, rather will just relay the facts that may be relevant.

Tomorrow night I am meeting someone for drinks.

He is a guy.

Someone I knew when I was still married.

...actually, I was sometimes his boss - meaning he worked as a freelancer for the same company I did and sometimes would come and work for me in my department....this was about 8-9 years ago.

We always got along - chatting about art and movies and stuff.

I think maybe he liked me, but I was married and there was never any flirtation or anything. (there still is no flirtation)

I hooked up with him again recently on facebook and at the time, I was in a relationship with someone else, but we spoke casually of getting together sometime to catch up.

We haven't discussed it, but it's pretty obvious that my recent relationship ended because I have discussed it with friends openly on facebook.

We started firming up plans to get together before I mentioned the break-up on facebook (so there is no opportunism on his part).

So, we are meeting downtown tomorrow night to do a little bar-hopping. I am bringing my camera because I want to take pictures down there at night.

I see this as both a get-together with a friend and a photo expedition - not as a date.

I really don't want to have the 'this isn't a date' conversation. No. 1 it's crass. No. 2 it's presumptive. I just want to hang out, drink, converse, wander around downtown and take pictures.

But, my question is: Is it wrong for me to not make that clear? Is it 'leading him on' if I don't explicitly say, 'this isn't a date, dude'?

I guess what I'm wanting is a guy's perspective. Specifically older guys, because the two of us are in our 40's. I'm just really ignorant of these things for someone of my age, lol.

The fact that you're worrying about whether this is a date, to me, means he has date potential. What are you so scared of? I'm not even 30 but my advice is to just go and have fun. I don't think you need to make anything clear. A little blurriness is fun. He's a big boy, if you're not into him and he's into you, he'll figure it out. It's not leading him on. You're not interested, maybe he is, maybe he's not. Just worry about the issue when it comes, if it ever does. You may find yourself on your outing thinking how silly you were to even think he was misguided in the first place. Or not. Either way, it's life. Take it as it comes. Stop labeling things and they will make themselves apparent to you in due course.

I don't know if I qualify as "older" and I don't know if my view is up to date on these things, as I am in my early 30s and been married 5 years.
And as an additional caveat, I am not originally from the US, although I have lived here the majority of my adult life. I say this because I am still somewhat puzzled by the whole "dating" thing, as it is a more formal way of courtship than what I am used to.

With those things in mind, there are many ways of letting him know you are not interested in him in "that" way without having to have the "date" conversation. I.e., get a seat at the bar instead of a secluded booth, don't dress up for a date, etc.

I don't think it you would be leading him on if you didn't have the "date" conversation. But then again, I think I come from a cultural background that is more similar to little tippler's, where there is less concern for labels.

I agree with tippler to an extent. Has he said anything that would make you think he sees it as a date? If not, I'd just be ready to make it clear that you're not interested when the time comes. He starts to flirt, you might flirt a little. A little starts to become a lot, you simply tell him you're not into him, or that you're not ready to start dating, or whatever the case is.

You always put this in the CD player, and tell him you hate whiny little bitches who can't handle it when women aren't into them:

make no quibbles about it. call it "not a date" just to be sure.

make sure the "gentleman caller" knows the parameters...

It is certainly not your responsibility to make the boundaries clear. He shouldn't be expecting it to be a date, so I'd say it is not upon you to say "not a date."

That's a sound theory but should things get hairy, you'll have trouble and though it was never your responsibility, you might have to deal with the consequences.

To sum up, I wouldn't say anything, but I'd try to enjoy the night knowing my conscience was clear. If he assumes it's a date then he's a f**cker.

I know if I was meeting up with you for bar-hopping...



I would sure as hell hope it was a date. :love:

I'm sorry, but why are you blowing this all out of proportion? Go and have fun. Stop second guessing what he's thinking. You're going to drive yourself crazy and could start misreading his body language. I'd hate to see you slap him for trying to kiss you when he was reaching for another handful of peanuts.

Seriously, go and have fun.

And if you ever meet up with WK to go bar-hopping, I'll be happy to chaperone. We all know how HE gets.

Go out, don't say anything about it not being a date unless it becomes abundantly clear he thinks it is. And even then, who cares? Let him think its a date, hell let it be a date! That way afterward you can say you didn't feel it working out and go back to being friends without having to have the awkward not a date conversation and risk hurting a friends feelings.

I do have Roman hands and Russian fingers...





Get it? Heh? It's a joke... Get it? Roman... ? Russian... ? I crack myself up...

I had a reply, but I think I you know the answer already. Go out, have fun and catch up with an old friend and quit worrying.

Well, I didn't mean to give the impression that I was all freaked out about this. It's just that I literally don't know if there is a protocol for these things. It's all good. :)

And he is not a creep or a jerk at all so I am not concerned about him acting out of turn. It's just the timing of the thing set me off a bit, with my recent break-up.

I do intend to have fun. I'm very excited about the whole thing.

Thanks, guys. :)

oh, and Tippler I don't really see him as date material, in fact, it's just the opposite...if I did think of him as date material I wouldn't be concerned at all. I don't want to get into why that is because it wouldn't be respectful, just suffice it to say that it has nothing to do with his appearance or personality and everything to do with the fact I don't click with him that way.

Protocol is: wait until there's something to deal with before you deal with it.

Otherwise you're saying, "Don't think about a green elephant on rollerskates." Yeah, good luck with that!

Good point.

Gee.

If I was single and I was having a night out with a single women that I was interested in (now or in the past) then I'd be hoping for it to lead to something. But I'd not assume it either.

He'll be watching for signs and wondering what the expectations are. You should be able to send some signals I'd think, without saying it.

And don't be offended if he makes a polite pass. After all, it has been known to work.

Tonight i drank strange ales.
Smoked cigarettes.
Smoked weed.
And I'm almost certain he wanted it to be a date.
Next time I am going alone.
It is a photographer's paradise down there.
I think I have pictures of a club chick being arrested.
I observed the human creatures and I think I have a clearer understanding of why men hate women and vice versa...at least on the Friday night bar scene level.
I felt like the iceman who had just been unfroze.

The key question is was he polite about wanting it to be a date, or pushy?

I agree with When Harry Met Sally on this score - all men want to date all their women friends (or at least imagine that they would if given the chance without ballsing up everything else); the difference between us is that some know this and can overcome it to be reasonable animals to be with, and some don't and become pests.

Yes, he was perfectly polite about it. Well, except for the point in the evening when someone came up and inferred that I was his new girlfriend and he didn't correct them - but it was loud in there making conversation difficult so I just used the head cock-raised eyebrow look at him and let it slide.

But the tension makes things uncomfortable (for me) and I don't have the patience for that discomfort. I missed all the years in my 20s and 30s when I was supposed to be learning how to navigate through these kinds of relationships and now I'm just too old - too set in my ways, I guess. I want everything to be on the level and mutual. If I'm interested a guy will know that explicitly and if not, then I don't want to deal with the bullshit of his hope that the relationship will be something else while we're carrying on the facade of a platonic friendship. And I don't say that to judge him or anyone else in that situation because a person cannot help their feelings. I'm just tired and cranky.

I'll spot you the set in your ways, but I call bullshit on the too old. I can't really base an opinion on someone's belief or value system often enough IRL, let alone on a message board. But living shouldn't be based on an attitude about age.

Yeah, it was a date to him. If you have any heart, I'd get in touch with him and say something along the lines of, 'hey, I was getting an odd vibe from you the other night. I don't want things to go unresolved or become strained between us, so I want to tell you that I'm not that into you in that way.' Something along those lines anyway.

So if you're interested, he'll know it explicitly, but if you're not he should just take a clue and buzz off. Frankly, that is BS. If you are explicit about showing your interest, be explicit about showing your disinterest as well.

Nothing wrong with hanging out as friends. But once you were getting the vibe that he was into you, yeah, you should have addressed it. The poor guy probably spent most of the night thinking that he was doing something wrong for you to not be responding.

And the raised eyebrow thing? We're guys. We don't pick up on body language and subtle cues as well as women do. You may have thought you were telegraphing your thoughts very clearly, but I'm pretty certain that it didn't reach the other side of the table.

granted.

---------- Post added at 01:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:05 PM ----------


You know, I haven't seen this guy in almost 10 years. We got together had some beers and walked around. Why do I owe it to him to dispel notions that he shouldn't even be having in the first place, all things considered? And see, this is the very reason I started this thread. To see if I was potentially getting myself into a situation that I don't feel like dealing with. It's bullshit.

You don't. You owe it to yourself to have a little awkwardness now to head off a lot of awkwardness later.

It's how human beings interact. The world must be peopled!

And I'll just beat everyone to the punch by saying I know that I am being a little unreasonable. Not totally unreasonable, but somewhat. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that you can go out for fun on a Friday night and not have to deal with romantic inclinations towards you coming from a friend. But like I've said, I'm not adjusted well this way. I have been married or in a relationship since I was 18 years old and being married totally changes the dynamics of friendships with people of the opposite sex who you like you a little...well, at least it has with my friends.

So mostly I'm just a little pissed off with myself because a little voice was telling me I shouldn't do it and I did anyway. Such is life.

---------- Post added at 01:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:45 PM ----------

But does the awkwardness really go away? It will always be there to some extent. People can't just turn their feelings on and off like that. I know I can't.

Seems to me like you tried to play the game a little bit, perhaps if this man was extremely impressive you would have gone for him? The appropriate thing would have been to call/message him and say that you wanted him to know that this wasn't a date but that you two were friends and you were looking forward to having a great time. That would have put him in a different frame of mind for the night and both of you at ease. Instead he was left guessing.

When a single man and single woman get together and the single man is attracted to the single woman...etc.

As for now, you really don't owe him anything, unless you consider him a friend you want to hold onto or just someone you'd like to see again.

there's always the " gee, being with you is just like being with my brother " remark. being old, I have had that used on me with devastating effectiveness..... Dammit!

No, I didn't play a game, but thanks. Why would you assume that. Maybe he was playing a game with me, or is it always the default to put the blame on the woman? Maybe he should have stated his intentions up front? No? I stated mine.

And it doesn't sound like you read my posts on this thread.

I take it you didn't put out?






:D

you take it correctly, sir. ;)

Good girl.

You don't unless it comes up again. If he calls you up looking to go out again, it's fair to "draw the line", but I see no reason to ring him up out of the blue and say you're not romantically interested in him. For all you know, he has no intention of trying to get you into a relationship.

I wonder if he started a similar thread on his favorite forum.

You just need to chill a little. It's true, having to worry about this stuff can stress one out or make everything a bit awkward.

But the more you worry and stress out about it, the more awkward the situation gets.

If you try to play it cool and make it clear with your interactions that you aren't looking for a relationship, most guys should catch on and things should be fine.

It follows that thinking that your attitude will manifest itself in your situations. If someone feels awkward/nervous, other people can read that and they might start to feel it too. Also, for another example, if he does have to be told explicitly this is note a date and he's told in such a way that he can feel a lot of frustation from you and also feels like he's to blame for it, then that will only make things more awkward.

But if you show a positive attitude towards hanging out, despite some awkwardness, he'll likely relax and reciprocate that feeling.

It will work itself out. I will talk to him at some point and things will be what they will be.
For now I just need to get over this hangover.

I wonder if he was one of the emo "there's this girl I like" theads we had recently...

I think you have the same problem I do. We tend to over-complicate things that do not need over-complicating. There's no need to bring it up with him out of the blue. Just be friends and hang out...or not if you don't want to. Let things keep on going, and if he tries something or says something about it, let him down easy.

Since you are friends on facebook, you could always post a few pics that you took that night. Along with a note that you got to spend a nice relaxing evening with an old friend.

I wish I had clicked this thread sooner, because I had the perfect advice: Mention to him that you are trying to get [mutual friend] to go with you guys, too! Even if you really aren't and/or it doesn't pan out, it will set the tone immediately that it's not a date. I've been in a situation where it was ambiguous, and kind of awkward, until the girl in question mentioned something about how I should bring a friend of ours with.

Conversely, I've been in a situation where I went out drinking with a girl I'd been friends with, we ended up back at her place, even ended up sleeping in her bed, and I didn't 'make any moves' because I thought we were friends...heard later from a mutual friend I hurt her feelings because she thought *I* thought she wasn't attractive enough to sleep with, when in reality I was trying to respect the 'not a date' that I thought was implied by our hanging out.

Devastating but effective.

I'm surprised you put up with the whole boys/girls Friday night club scene. I'm still in my 20's and I can't stand that scene. I can navigate my way through it, but unless forced to go I'll avoid the dog and pony show.

Had to have been some interesting people watching.