Fat Acceptance Movement: Overdue Reform, or Total Denial?
 

What do you think about the FA movement?

Fat Acceptance

naafa.org = National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance

I was a fat kid, fat adolescent and fat young adult. Within the last 2 years Ive worked to change my body so that I could be more healthy. There is adult-onset diabetes on both sides of the family and high cholesterol as well and I didnt want that to happen to me. I wasnt happy or healthy and I realized it was because of my weight. While its not a cure-all, its one thing I could work on about myself and have a tremendous impact.

But being a fat girl for most of my life definitely had its own impact. Part of denying that I was unhealthy and unhappy was empowering myself through a sort of unspoken underground Fat Movement. Beth Ditto of The Gossip who I admire greatly is a Fat Girl and proud of it. Its part of her identity and young girls look up to her, fat and thin alike for various reasons.

I still think of myself as a fat girl in that I know what its like to be discriminated against and treated differently. I want to have solidarity with other people who have weight issues because this issue will never go away for me. Its something Ill deal with for the rest of my life and I need support.

I think discrimination against overweight people is probably the last taboo. Weve talked about race, class, sexual orientation, but mums the word on fat. I know that fat does not necessarily equal unhealthy or unattractive or unlovable. My own personal decision to become thinner is mine alone, but I still struggle inside when I see obese people.

I like that NAAFA is trying to speak out and create a space to talk about fat discrimination, yet I still dont know how to reconcile this position within myself.

Some of my friends thinks that NAAFA a load of crap for the most part, designed to make people whore too lazy to lose weight feel better about themselves.

What are your thoughts?

For the VAST majority of people, being fat is a personal choice and as such I don't really care if they feel people are mean to them.

You can't eat your delicious cake and have it too here.

i think there's a scientific line you cross. when you become unhealthily overweight, you are that, and sparing or cushioning your ego
or feelings about it is the last thing you should worry about. in fact, even if it seems empowering or outwardly beneficial, i'd have
to say "being proud of your fatness" could be more a hinderance to positive change.

nobody deserves to be ridiculed, especially about some of their obviously worst personal problems when they're already painfully aware
of them... but i think often the sentiment from the people doing the teasing is that it's a form of "tough love" if they care about
you at all, and the hope is that the teasing will light a fire of change under your butt that you couldn't have lit before.

i just worry that the whole Fat and Proud of it can be a detrimental liscense to stay unhealthy i guess.

TOTAL DENIAL, absolutely. I feel the utmost sympathy for overweight people, and I sincerely hope that they can find the strength to battle their problem, but accepting people as fat like it's their race or gender? That's massively disrespectful to real civil and equal rights causes.

If you're too fat to fit in a single seat on a plane, you better have to buy two tickets. Don't like it? Jenny Craig enjoys a reasonable success rate.

My attitude towards obesity could best be characterised as apathy. It's your body and your life. You can do whatever you want with it, as long as you're willing to accept the consequences of your lifestyle.

Nobody I know has ever said losing weight is easy, but it can be done. I think this is why the obese aren't really regarded as a valid minority; their distinction is perceived as self-inflicted.

And calling out discrimination because you can't fit in an airplane/cinema seat, well that's just ridiculous. The people who make such things design them to be accesible to the mean average customer. Making exceptions hurts their profit margin. Accomodating someone who is wheelchair-bound or hearing impaired is one thing, but accomodating massive obesity isn't really seen as necessary. Again, these people are considered as having done it to themselves.

I understand that nobody chooses to be obese. At the same time, we have many members here who are capable of saying that they have successfully brought their weight under control (yourself included, I assume). onesnowyowl, Shauk, Lasereth and others all made the commitment to their health and it's paid dividends. If someone chooses not to make that commitment, and chooses a sedentary lifestyle and unhealthy diet then I've no sympathy for them when they pay the price. You don't fit in 'normal' life? That's the consequences mentioned above.

I was at the Chicago airport the other day and a wheelchair whizzed past me. I couldn't figure out what was so strange about it when it passed, until I saw another one. It was ENORMOUS!!! It was well beyond the 24.5 to 26.5 inches normal wheelchair.

So I looked up extra wide wheelchairs... and low and behold there are such things.

This makes me wonder just how effective ADA has been since people with these extra wide wheelchairs are now locked out of most doorways just like before ADA compliance.

They have dishonored the Eclipse name. :sad:

The only time I discriminate against fat people is when the fat, "funny" man is paired up with the slim, attractive woman in commercials and situation comedies.

Besides that, it's "live and let die" for me.

I would gladly attend a meeting of The National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance but only because I suspect the snacks would be plentiful and delicious.

Don't be fooled, even the best suppers can come with stale bread and wine from a box:
http://www.danbrown.com/images/davin...estoration.jpg

to compare fat acceptance to any other civil rights movement is beyond laughable

As a massage therapist, I see a wide range of people. Many are overweight. At the first session, I do a health intake. 90% of my significantly-overweight clients are on medications for high cholesterol, high blood pressure, diabetes, and similar issues. I would be uncomfortable if the FAM resulted in people also becoming comfortable/complacent with the serious health issues that typically occur.

I think they meant eclipse, like as in blot out the sun.

I think what the Fat Acceptance movement is doing seems almost deceptive.

There's a critical difference in accepting fat people for who they are and condoning obesity. As long as those two lines aren't blurred - which, really, is impossible for most people to do - then it's a valid debate.

I was heavy-won't go so far as to say "fat", because, technically, I wasn't. But my knees blew out, my thighs played music when I walked and only pants with elastic in the waist felt ok.
I'd had enough, lost 45 lbs and developed total disgust for anyone who chose to waddle through life.
It's like my choice to smoke. It's hard to quit, really hard. But ultimately, it's been my choice to continue, knowing the health risks.
My best friend is overweight. Her thyroid gland is out of control and she's on meds for it. She's also on heart, blood pressure and cholesterol meds, mostly due to the thyroid problems. She struggles to lose, so she says, but I've seen her eat and she could chow a trucker under the table.
I've seen grossly obese people stand before me in fast food lines, order the full biggy sized meals, then get a diet coke. I'd guarantee they go home, wolf it all down, then whine how fat they are.
A friend of mine was asked by her doctor if she'd made her will as she will probably be dead in two years due to her morbid obesity. She had her stomach stapled, almost died while recooperating, but now she's a svelt size 2 and thrilled about it.
Sorry, but just as no one has sympathy for my bad health habits, I have no sympathy for the overweight. No one's born fat-it's acquired. And if your parents are fat, the chances of you being fat have as much to do with how they teach you to eat as much as the so-called "fat gene".

90% of overweight people are oveweight because they eat too much and don't exercise. Why should I have sympathy for them? Stop whining, eat less and exercise more, fatboy.

For the 10% who have real issues with their health that makes them overweight, I have a lot of sympathy. I hope science and medicine will be able to help them conquer this.

Alas, it's hard to tell them apart in the street.

If you're genetically fat, I feel bad for you, but if you're the other already noted 90%, put down the fork and buy a fucking treadmill.

Listen. And understand. The fat people are out there. They can't be bargained with.
They can't be reasoned with. They doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear.
http://fairmobility.com/wp-content/i...ir_resized.jpg
And they absolutely will not stop, ever, until your food is gone.

I've never had a problem with others being fat, as long as their size doesn't inconvenience me or others. As long as I don't have to sit squished up against an airplane window for hours, or pay higher insurance rates because of someone's triple bypass surgery, other people's decision to be fat doesn't bother me.

I have noticed, however, that there are quite a few people who seem to be bothered simply by the existence of fat people. They act as though the presence of a fat person in their field of vision is an affront, and the hateful comments that follow are delivered in the same manner as racist comments. The look is also the same. It's that look that says "great, it's one of those people." Fat people aren't just subjected to disapproval of their habits; there's a genuine hatred for them that's widespread, and that I just can't understand.

I'm fat and I know it and I hope people continue to discriminate against me for it. It only helps me to motivate myself to rise above it and better myself. Being fat isn't fun. Having been in shape once before, I know how much better it REALLY is, it's not just about how you look, but how you feel.

Theres no need for someone to pander to my laziness.

Taken from H. G. Well's Tono Bungay

I agree with this.

I was overweight. Now I am not. It takes eating less and getting some exercise. I see this movement as people sticking their heads in the sand. They are in denial that they are killing themselves with bad eating and lack of exercise.

three cheers for our "blame everyone else" culture!

Sometimes, even a silly, entertaining movie gets it right...

I'd also like to add that the "Fat is Beautiful" slogan kind of pisses me off.

Yes, there are people who really like fat people sex. However, there's also 2Girls1Cup.*



*Please note, to whoever will want to reprimand me for this, that I'm not being a hater. I'm cool with fat people, but glorifying something like being a raging garbage disposal of doomedy death is just stupid.

Being an asshole is not a virtue. I don't see a reason to be mean or disrespectful to someone because they are fat.

And from what I can tell, no one is asking you to 'feel sorry' for them.

I think there is a line to be drawn as far as accommodations we make in public transportation and so forth, but I absolutely believe that discrimination and harrassment in the workplace should be penalized just like any other variety of bad behavior.

Its not discrimination I am worried about, its so many of them wanting to be treated as if they had a disability.

Employers should not be forced to accommodate someone because they can't keep delicious pie out of their pie hole.

Well, with the way obesity statistics are increasing, employers may not have a choice. In fact, and I could be wrong here 'cause I'm just going off of memory, but statistically people who are not overweight are a minority in this country. And the numbers of people who are 'obese' are rising every year.

We're just a country of fat, stupid, lazy motherfuckers. God damn America. :p

... I'm not fat....

two out of three ain't bad :lol:

I'm just fat cuz I go down to the food court and opt to buy buffet trips by the pound instead of walking a few blocks and picking up a veggie sub. Or because I'll take the escalator out of the transit center instead of the stairs. Or because I'll go home and work on music instead of go to the gym and work on my body. These are all CHOICES I've made, and I'm in the process of un-making them. It's really that simple, eat better, treat yourself better, don't stick with convenience for the sake of convenience if you stand to gain "character" from doing it the hard/old fashioned way.

We need to take a very long and very serious look at the food chain and what we are eating. Cheap and convenient should not be an excuse to eat yourself to death.

I don't know what you mean here by food chain.

I think the obesity epidemic is more related to the food supply than actual over-eating and lack of self control.
Go through your food cabinet and look at the ingredients. How many chemicals are in all those boxes and cans? How far do you have to drive to get a healthy meal vs a double cheeseburger with a supersized fries? How many different hormones are the cattle and chickens injected with to make them plumper with a bigger yield of meat?

While I can't give you exact statistics or supply some philosophical diatribe about how it's all a matter of looking and how people need to stand up and take matters into their own hands, I can say that I really want a Burger King cheeseburger right now. Between you and Tony Stark, I'm a goner.

To me that movement, and this is just my humble opinion, is just like when the balding Pharoah, instead of spending gold and treasure on sages to come up with a way to grow hair, had his entire kingdom also shave their heads.

Instead of changing himself, he made others adapt to him.

I guess that's not necessarily bad, if it works.

It's very much to do with overeating - average caloric consumption has gone up considerably in the west in the last 50 years while the physical demands of our jobs have gone down. Simple as.

http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications.../frsept99a.pdf

If someone has genetic or health issues which cause them to be overweight, they have my sympathies. Known several people like that.

Unfortunately, I've also known several more people who were hugely overweight and not only expected the world to accomodate them, but to validate their choice (there's that pesky word again) to blow up to 350lbs and make all but inevitable the heart disease, diabetes, various cancers, breathing problems and $500 air-conditioning bills which follow. I had a woman once, about 5'3x3'6, upbraid me for a solid 90 seconds about how the fact that the History building at my Uni had no elevators was discrimination. I asked her why she didn't take the stairs; it turned out she'd broken her leg a couple of years before while stepping off a curb. I asked why she didn't exercise in order to lose weight so she -could- take the stairs, and was informed that she was "too fat to exercise, and fine the way I am!" A girl I knew in Junior High who weighed over 300lbs before she was 14 managed to break her leg (tib and fib) in two places because her bones couldn't handle the weight.

But what really gripes me are the "fat is beautiful" people. No, it isn't. "Fat" is a foghorn screaming "Evolutionary dead end!" The obvious genetic/health exceptions aside, "fat" is a sign that the person lacks even the rudimentary discipline and self-control to dodge the veeeery slow-moving bullets described above. There's a reason people conflate "fat" and "stupid." If you have a choice, it's really frikkin' dumb to be fat. I don't validate people's decision to drink and drive, play with loaded guns, or gargle acetone: neither will I validate an equally ludicrous decision to weigh 300 pounds at 25 years old and 5'4. I don't find acetone-gargling attractive, nor drunken driving, nor jiggling rolls of suet walking around in shirts meant for a size-2 teenager. No amount of makup, tight shirts, and undersized high-heeled shoes can make someone like that attractive: it may make them -feel- attractive, but it makes everyone around them feel nauseous.

Sorry to sound like an ass, folks, but this one's a pet peeve of mine. Anyone who's ever been sat next to someone this big on an airline knows what I mean. When the Rotundimus Maximus in the next seat has spilled over and pinned you against the far arm-rest because they wouldn't buy the two seats their ass actually requires, it tends to inculcate a dim view of such people.

Another side to the issue?
 

In the study, published in the January/February issue of General Hospital Psychiatry, researchers interviewed 4,641 female health-plan enrollees, ages 40 to 65, by phone. The women responded to items on height, weight, exercise levels, dietary habits and body image. They also completed the Patient Health Questionnaire, a measure of depression symptoms.

Women with clinical depression were more than twice as likely to be obese, defined as having a body-mass index (BMI) of 30 or more; likewise, obese women were more than twice as likely to be depressed.

—"Obesity, Depression Often Coexist In Middle-Aged Women," Science News

* * *

Results of the research showed, that people, having adiposity, suffered from anxious and emotional disorders, including depression, 25% more often. At the same time, fatty people abused alcohol and drugs 25% less frequently, than their slenderer brothers.

Now scientists are still not ready to answer a question, whether depresion is a reason or result of adiposity, as both variants are quite possible. It’s known, that depressed people experience fall of physical activity. Moreover, medicines, used for its treatment, can cause weight gain. On the other hand, fatty people become butts more often, what surely affects their mood.
Both depression and adiposity are widespread. About one third of adult Americans suffers from adiposity, and depression is detected in 10% of population (about 21 millions of people).

—"Overweight people suffer from depression more often," Woman’s Passions: Women’s Lifestyle Magazine

Things aren't quite as cut and dried as I've read here so far. It's not just about caloric intake and energy output. People aren't machines. This here doesn't apply to everyone, but it does apply to a significant proportion of overweight people. But depression is another one of those things that some people find hard to swallow.

It still comes down to a decision. Nobody (attention-whoring teenagers aside) chooses to be depressed. Unless someone has a genetic or health issue which prevents them from losing weight, they -do- choose to be fat, the same way people choose to smoke cigarettes, shoot smack, or gargle acetone.

I think part of the point is that the stuff we buy in our supermarkets is chock full of sugar (of one kind or another) and it is a bucket load more work to buy ingredients and cook food from first principles, rather than pull a packet of X out of the cupboard or buy a cheeseburger meal.

This comes back to mixedmedia's point that western people are lazy.

It is possible to eat healthily - you just need to make an effort.

I'd say even that is overstating it. I'm a very, very, very to the ninth power lazy person. All I tend to do is surf the Net and watch movies, when I should be studying or working on my various projects, and I procrastinate like nobody's business. Hell, I have to memorize an entire script by around 9:45 tomorrow morning, and I'm about to go to bed after spending my time on here....


... HOWEVER, I still find it very easy to cook up a steak, or throw some oatmeal and a salad together. I can understand sometimes not having the time to do these things, I've been in those situations where all you have time for is a quick stop by the King, but that shouldn't be every second of a person's life. If you don't have enough time to microwave oatmeal or ramen (not especially healthy, but not a butt-in-bun either) then you don't have the time to breathe.

So, using my own lovely little logic, if a person is too lazy to cook or at least look for and buy relatively healthy food, than that person might as well sit down and die, because in my eyes they're completely useless and a waste of air.

There, I said it.

I don't see how this confuses anything.

People are machines, calories in calories out, + = weight gain, - = weight loss.

I mean I can't be overly shocked that people who may have a negative self image would be depressed.

I generally feel bad for people who can't control their weight due to health issues.

If your overweight because you like to eat and don't exercise I have no issues with it beyond the extra cost that it brings to our health care system.

as stated before, it is hard to tell these groups apart so i don't discriminate, not that i would be rude or a jackass to someone based on weight.

That's a total cop-out. 'Blame the industry' is another way of boycotting personal responsibility. Regardless of the accuracy of the argument ('chemical' does not equate to unhealthy any more than 'organic' equates to healthy, despite what the marketing people at Trader Joe's tell you) it still doesn't address the fact that the vast majority of obese people do have healthier lifestyle options that they simply forego.

Respectfully disagree with that. Machines are precisely what people are; incredibly complex ones, granted, but organic machines all the same.

You're right, the formula isn't as simple as calories in/calories out, but modern food supplies allow us to effectively reduce it to that level in the vast majority of the cases. There are exceptions to every rule and this one is no exception; all the same, I'm generally inclined to blame the individual unless evidence contraindicates it.

I'm a big believer in personal responsibility. Depression is crippling and difficult to fight, but millions of people manage that. Using it as an excuse does nobody any good. If a person is suffering from untreated depression which makes weight management difficult, my first question is going to be why they aren't seeking treatment. If they are and are still overweight, then we're right back at square one.

What are the long term effects of said chemicals and hormones? Is it possible that these things are the root of the obesity problem? The food choices of today are quite different from the choices of only 20 years ago. Processed foods are much more prevalent than they were a generation ago.

'Long-term effects' in my experience is generally code for 'we can't actually prove this is harmful.'

Proper procedure dictates that until we have evidence that there are long-term negative repercussions associated with any of the preservatives or other chemicals used to make food cheaper and safer for mass consumption, we should assume there are not. Furhtermore, probing that one chemical additive has negative effects does not prove they all do.

The rest is marketing spin to justify paying more for 'organic' foods that are really no different nutritionally than their non-'organic' alternatives.

There is a diet (the hacker diet) that is based on the concept of losing weight by eating things like frozen dinners. It works entirely based on (surprise!) calorie control.

You mean 20+ years ago when this man made his career?

http://www.eons.com/images/cms/9852_image_file_1.JPG

Maybe I'm just gifted in that when I start to get fat, and I have now and then, I am able to resist these chemicals and hormones and just put less food in my mouth.

I'm sorry but my sympathy is pretty much nil outside of some VERY rare conditions which prevent people from properly breaking down their own body fat.

My wife and I watch our weights constantly, its easy to get fat, it takes effort to stay thin. 100 years ago, work was harder, nutrition was harder to come by and even then you could buy things like.....

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w...3a0e0e27_o.jpg

Its only our relative wealth, cheaper foods, and sedentary life styles that makes it accessible to everyone, especially the poor who are not known for making good life decisions.

yes, a lot of packaged food is bad for you, but this smacks of more blame-shifting. I eat the same super market food that most overweight people do, yet I'm 6'3" and weigh just 165 lbs. how? genetics, partly, but also trying to keep active, not snacking much, and not overeating at meals

That is the classic definition of yoyo dieting.

So according to some of you, the only reason for the obesity epidemic is simply that a large portion of this country's populace has become slothful cheetos swilling couch potatos who are allergic to sit-ups.
I know more than a few obese people who are quite active and eat less than I do.
Poor choices are a part of it but I think there is more to it than that.

Its the classic definition of me not caring that much, eating more than I should and then saying 'ok fine, lets work on this'. We are talking + or - 5 lbs. Its more of a negative feed back system.

Yes pretty much. Not for every single person out there, but for the vast, vast majority.

I used to work as a waiter. I didn't see to many obese people ordering the salad with light vinaigrette.

I don't buy the argument that it's hard to eat healthy. Seriously, when you walk into almost every single grocery store out there, the first section you come to is the produce section. Have you checked the prices there lately? It doesn't take Daddy Warbucks to buy from the produce section. I think it takes more effort to eat like a pig than it does to eat healthy.

And the whole genetic thing? I've never met a fat person who is fat because they eat a lot. Every one of them claims it's genetic. Even if it is, the simple laws of physics dictate that in order to gain that much weight, you have to ingest a certain number of calories. Fewer calories = less weight. It's not rocket science.

Fotzlid, first I'd say that doesn't it say something about our society that we can say something like, "I know more than a few obese people" as simply a condition of a sentence? Second, I'd surmise that the people who are fat but eat less than you are more than likely eating when no one's around. I'd venture a guess that they're highly ashamed of their eating habits which is why they hide it and deny they eat what they do.

Disparage away people. Must be nice looking down from those high horses.

Don't tell me fat is beautiful. I'm fat, It's my fault, and I'm embarrassed to take my shirt off at the beach because I did this to myself. Don't tell me it's OK, that I'm discriminated against and shouldn't be. It's not OK, I have high blood pressure, I'll be diabetic by the time I'm 30 if I don't lose weight quick, and it sure as hell isn't a pretty sight when I'm standing there naked and whoever sees me is sober. I lost a bunch of weight, I was halfway to where I needed to be, then I stopped giving a shit again and realized months later that I had undone all the weight loss that had made me healthier, more attractive, and more comfortable about myself.

I keep one of my favorite shirts on my bureau under the mirror, and once or twice a week I put it on, see that I still don't look good in it like I did when I was 30 pounds lighter, and tell myself that I'm not just going to go get one in a bigger size because that would be taking the easy way out. I won't be happy until I fit into that shirt again. I still won't be in good shape when I fit into it, but I'll be halfway there. that's my motivation and reminder.

Maybe we should all be crying lots of big salty tears for fat people, but when I look around me and see people with real problems that they have no control over it's hard to get too worked up because somebody ate too many cheeseburgers and now they can't get a date to the prom. Don't get me wrong, I meant it when I said I'm apathetic on the matter. It's up to each individual to live his or her life as best deemed fit, and if your idea of a night off involves a pizza and six and a half hours of television, then by all means go for it. I'm just not buying the discrimination argument. A man who has ALS and is wheelchair bound is a man whose rights I'll fight for. A man who supersized too many times and feels like he's being excluded because he can't fit through normal-sized doorways anymore can fuck off and take up jogging, so far as I'm concerned. And a man who is overweight because he has hypothyroidism is still an idiot for not going to his doctor and/or finding a better one when said doctor is unable to help him manage his condition and his weight effectively.

Not a lot of people are willing to jump to the defence of smokers' rights to light up anywhere they damn well choose and anyone who will is also an idiot. As a former smoker I can state quite categorically that smoking is bad and that while people are free to do it or not do it as they see fit, they have no right to force others to accommodate them because of their choice. Why should overweight people be any different?

You seem to think this view makes me elitist. If that's the case, then quite frankly I'm perfectly comfortable with that. After all, at least I'm a thin elitist.

I think this thread naturally slanted toward the discrimination part of the discussion because it is a lot easier to reject than the hatred/ridicule part.

Hatred/Ridicule of over-weight people in the United States is real, and there isn't any effort, or at least very little effort, to change that.

Most people are fat because of personal choices.

All people choose how to treat others, and some (a very large some) choose to treat people who are over-weight different than everyone else. People in this thread have gone out of their way to mention that *they* aren't fat. Why is that?

Why does it matter?

I'm not over-weight nor do I smoke or drink, look at me I'm really special!

If I was only good looking... the world would be mine!

There is a direct correlation between body-mass and daily calorie intake. The average 300 pounder eats about twice what the average 150 pounder eats. Some people have big bodies, and sure, some people put on weight more easily (because they find it easier to eat lots), but at the end of the day you still make that decision: Should I supersize that?

To suggest that being fat is anything but a personal choice is misguided. It is physically impossible to put on fat unless you are eating more than your body needs.

By accepting that being fat is somehow not the fault of the fat person, you are taking a big, jiggly step towards forcing non-fat people to help cover the increased medical costs associated with the obese, as well as making it a disability (extra wide airline seats for the double-wide asses at no extra charge, etc.)

If you want to be fat, or if you want to eat disguisting quantities of food more than you want to be thin, then fine, but don't try to blame your weight problems on anyone but yourself.

For instance:
We have a big guy on my team. He broke his arm and was in a school for a couple months where he wrote reports, ran out to get fast food daily, and did very little excercise. When he finally got back, he was 270+ lbs and looked fat. He started eating right and working out everyday and in the last three months he has lost 40 lbs and he now looks ripped. He made a personal decision and corrected the problem, there is no reason others can't do the same.

Personally, I've grown up exercising and being active, so for me it's very difficult NOT to be able to work out. My parents however have made it known that I got very lucky when it came to genetics.

My mothers side of the family has genetics playing into weight problems. My mom has been struggling with her weight nearly her whole life except when she was in the military, Air Force. For her, a size 12 is excellent. She's currently a 16, so about 30 more pounds and she'll feel happy with herself. That's just how the Gardner side works. Genetics make losing weight very difficult. Many of her family members on the upper side of the hill on their age have many problems, high cholesterol, blood pressure, borderline diabetic etc.
My mom works out about 4 times a week with her homemade workout tape, she jogs around the living room and it makes her feel better because she's being active. She watches what she eats and does the best she can while also performing as a Director on the Board of Directors for Lockheed Martin.

When it comes to luck, my dads side has very skinny people on it. Fast metabolisms are the calling card of the Thompsons. My sister and I were fortunate to get my dads genetics and therefore we're both tall and slim and don't have weight problems. My mom always tells me she's so glad we both got my dads genes when it came to the weight arena. I can't help but feel bad for my mom though, I wonder how she feels because my sister and I turned out slim. I know she says shes happy for us...but it does make me wonder if she's a bit jealous too. *shrug*

I have more pity for those larger folks standing in front of me at fast food restaurants. I feel sorry for them and the choices they're making, the same choices they're probably reinforcing with their children and pushing into a vicious cycle. It's very sad. I've heard of people mentioned that the next generation of children will be dying before their parents because of an alarming obesity rate. The problems associated with obesity etc. Recently I've been taming my love of sweets and not allowing myself to just eat whatever I like even though it doesn't really matter at this point, eventually it will.

I don't really discriminate fat people...unless they're drowning in my pool and I have to save them. One would think that since fat floats more than muscle they would have built in buoys.

The attitude of I don't give a damn how I look, what I eat and how I display myself is unacceptable. I strive to look the best I can and it's very confusing as to why more people don't. Growing up and the environment you're raised in probably has more to do with it than anything, that and letting kids buy French fries for lunch and other crappy foods. It seems nowadays that the healthy food costs more and unhealthy food less. A trend shows that lower income families tend to have more obese people because a lack of education on the subject as well a tolerance toward allowing their family to live that way.

I know I used to buy chocolate milk, an ice cream cone, and French fries in middle school. I totally got away with it too. I believe schools need to make a step toward changing what they offer for lunches, if nothing else that can make a huge impact. Also this shortening recess nonsense needs to go too. Kids need to run and play and get exercise. Education is the key.
It's nice to see that TFP has so many people who are intolerant of accepting this "Fat Acceptance Movement"...it's utterly ridiculous if it's not related to genetics. I would never accept such a thing into my life, I know the same for James too.
Just my opinion.

I will concede that genetics may make loosing weight more difficult. However, if you eat fewer calories than your body burns, you will lose weight.

Your mom may put on weight easy, and she may be unable to excercise (though I feel that is usually just an excuse given by people who don't want to work around whatever difficulties they have), but if she doesn't overeat she won't get fat.

My parents are both fat. Both never work out, and both eat significantly more than I do at each sitting. Unfortunately, they don't have anybody to blame but themselves. They know better than to blame the world though, because if they were willing to eat less they would lose the weight.

I started putting on fat about a year ago, and when I realized what was happenning, I corrected my eating habits and started running a lot as well as lifting. I lost the fat and put on some muscle.

I do not deny that there are different body-types, just that there is no excuse for obesity, to get fat you have to be both lazy and weak-willed.

As far as discrimination: I don't care perse whether someone is fat. I do care that someone would take such poor care of their single most important possession (their body) and would so show little self discipline. If you can't be trusted to take care of yourself, how can I trust you to take care of others? Should I trust you to care for my children, or will you pass on your *wonderful* lifestyle tips? If you don't have enough self control to push yourself away from the dinner table, how can I trust you to put in the extra hours when a job gets difficult? Additionally, in my mind being fat is similar to being a crack addict...both significantly shorten your life expectancy, are a personal choice and make you a poor investment for anything long term.

All points I would have made have already been made. Therefore...


This is the funniest thing I have recently read from you Ustwo. Just genius. I am still laughing.

I'd like to see where in the OP's article it is stating that fat people want you to 'feel sorry' for them. (not talking to you gg.)

I keep seeing that in the posts up there. 'I will not 'feel sorry' for fat people.' 'I will not cry for fat people.'

Who's asking you to cry for them?

********************************************************

And here's another thing. All this talk about stuffing things into your pie hole reminds me of the other side of this equation which is another situation concerning people and their pie holes.

I had to sit through two hours of harassment training at my new job yesterday while I watched video vignettes of people acting like assholes. These folks who apparently need to be protected from the feelings of fat people and others who attract their attention.

I would just like to remind you all that what comes out of your pie hole is a choice, too. And if all you motherfuckers who think you're so witty with all the disparaging and discriminatory things you 'think up' about other people would just shut the fuck up, I wouldn't have to sit for two hours in a darkened room being told not to act like you.

Thank you.

Exactly - I shop at the supermarket too, and if I did not watch what I eat and did not exercise I'd be 25-30 pounds heavier than I am today. I eat a certain amount of processed foods and simple sugars - but in selected and limited quantities.

In the large majority of cases, yes.

Man, just look at people's average weight prior to WW2 and today - nowhere near the number of fat people back then.

I seriously just LOLed at work

Tolerance, yes. Acceptance, no.

As one of those who teeters from time to time, I know it's my own damned fault. One may be genetically predisposed to weight gain, but accepting that as one's fate is not right.

I do get the concept of accepting or loving self despite the weight gain/fat and I think that's appropriate. One has to care enough about themselves in order to feel motivated to do something about it.

I think that maybe that's the cry for acceptance. If others ridicule and look down on you, it makes it all that much more difficult to muster up some self-esteem.

I suppose I should put in a few comments since I'm a prime suspect in the fat case:

I'll make some points that are basically rambling with no coherent structure because there is no overall structure to what I'm about to say, just some insights from me growing up.

My dad's side of the family (the males in particular) are all fat. When I was born, I was fat. Growing up, I was fat because my parents let me eat whatever I want, and I suppose my genetics from my dad allowed me to overeat without getting sick. Growing up as a kid I was active but I was still fat in the stomach region.

Now that I'm an adult, the real fun comes in. I was about 210 pounds at 5'10" when I went to college. I wasn't disgustingly fat but I wasn't skinny and muscular either. Throughout college I had a meal card. Whilst growing up I had no limiters on what I ate and my parents never told me it was a bad thing to eat until you're full. Back to my genetics telling me to eat until I was full: I ate and ate in college until I was full and ballooned up to 275 pounds. I ate myself into that position. Completely and totally my fault.

Now here's the part that no one likes to talk about: remember my dad's side of the family being fat? Genetics made me have a huge propensity to be fat <I>and</I> have an extremely hard time losing weight. I graduated college, hated being fat and decided to not live like my dad and my grandpa. I went from eating 5,000 calories per day (that's how much it took me to be full) to 800-1,500 calories per day which is absolute pure torture. I've tried losing weight in the past...going down to 2,500 per day from 5,000 has little effect. Extreme measures must be taken to lose weight with my body.

Now the part where this ties in with fat people in general: imagine you're fat. That's right skinny people, imagine that you're 275 pounds. Put yourself in a fat person's shoes. You've made bad decisions about food and now you're fat. You've decided to lose weight and today is the day to start.

You stop eating as much and start exercising every single day. Cardio, weight training, eating 1500 calories per day...except something is wrong. You're not losing weight. Nothing. You are going through maniacal pain in your stomach daily from craziness-inducing hunger and then following it up with an hour daily of excruciating, joint-busting, puke-inducing exercise in order to make your body healthy. Except nothing is happening. You are struggling to make a difference and it's not working. 1 month goes by. No weight loss. 2 months. 3 months. 4 months. Every day you are driven insane by hunger, driven insane by the pain of working out as a fat person and you are getting no result.

Most people don't have the willpower to continue. Have the skinny people bashing fat people who can't control themselves ever thought about the possibility that losing weight isn't as simple as eating less and exercising? Once you're fat it's not simple to lose weight. Eat less calories than your body needs and you lose weight. Physics, right? Pure logic, right? Wrong. Not every fat person's body reacts this way.

It took me 4 months before I lost a single pound. After 4 months my body was ready to give up its epic struggle with being fat. 8 months later I had lost 70 pounds.

Here's an even more entertaining addition: working out and exercising had no part of it. I lost the first 50 pounds without exercising because exercising had no effect on my body.

So before the skinny people who lose weight easily bash a fat person next time, think to yourself: what if they've tried losing weight for 3 months with no result? What if they must endure mental anguish (food becomes your savior when you're fat, your best friend, you're basically killing your stomach and your friend by losing weight) and physical torture for months on end with no result just to <B>begin</B> the weight loss process?

Those strong enough will endure and those with weaker minds will not.

I know every fat person is not like this. I realize that most people are very susceptible to exercise and eating better. But some are not, and I'm defending them right here.

I've lost 70 pounds and gained 10-15 pounds of muscle so far. I eat 1,000 calories per day. Sometimes 1,500 and occasionally 2,000 if I want to be a "fatass" that day. I eat vegetables, meat, fruit, you name it. I never eat sweets. NEVER. I eat a dessert maybe once every 3 months. I eat less and more healthy than most skinny fit people and guess what? I'm still fat.

That's right, I'm still fat and I eat better than you and go to the gym THIRTEEN times a week (twice at work daily, and 3 times a week after work). I live a healthier lifestyle than you, try harder to work out, and care about my health more than the skinny people that bash fat people and I'm STILL fat. I could lose another 50 pounds but it's just not happening.

Now that I've rambled, I suppose the point of this was to show that the fat-bashers don't know the whole story about many fat people. They may be healthier than you but their body is EXTREMELY resistant to change due to genetics and a lifelong detrimental effect caused by parents that let you overeat. Some fat people can't lose weight without an epic 4 month long struggle before a single pound is lost that makes you depressed because there is nothing to look forward to anymore (it used to be food!).

Now to all the people at work that bring in Bojangles biscuits every morning and go out to eat for every meal of every day and have to struggle to get up the stairs: I hate you. I hate you for mocking my efforts and leading everyone else to believe that I'm fat because I eat too much just like everyone in this thread believes.

Lasereth while I respect what you had to go through to achieve your results, let's respond to a couple of the points you made:

1) Most people here have qualified their responses with the understanding that a certain percentage of people have a truly valid medical reason for being fat or having a hard time losing weight. To SOME extent, you fall into this category in that losing weight was very, very difficult - on the other hand, you also admit you did it to yourself by stuffing your face into adulthood.

2) Many people "against the fatties" as it were, have been overweight themselves and conquered it. When I started my current job I had gotten up to 185 pounds at 5'8" and about 27% bodyfat) - I got back to being disciplined with my exercise program and with my eating habits and dropped 25 pounds and sit at a lean 160 now at 15% body fat. So it's not like a lot, maybe even most, people haven't been there to some extent albeit not to the extreme situation you found yourself in.

Good luck with maintaining your condition.

So you were eating less than it required to operate your body, yet you lost no weight for the first four months? I'd be interested to know where the energy to keep you going came from.

Undoubtedly after a life of bad habits taught from birth it would be extra hard to lose weight, but early in your endeavor you were doing something wrong which made it harder.

I have to say that I see mixedmedia's point.

It's all very well to talk about willpower, but nobody is perfect. Some people can't shut their mouths before they say snide, hurtful things. Other's can't control their overeating. And the list goes on.

I think tolerance is a good thing in most situations, though I am guilty of the opposite on occasion. We all have things that push our buttons.

I don't think people who are overweight (not fat) should accept that they are that way and just leave it at that. I think that if it's affecting their health they should do something about it. When we speak of overweight, that means that a person has more body fat than is healthy.

If you are just "fat", as in you're not thin as a rake, then I think it's fine. People come in all shapes and some people aren't meant to be skinny. I don't discriminate people for being fat. And yes I feel some compassion for those people who can't lose extra weight, because of related health issues. I also have some sympathy for people who can't find it in them to stop damaging their body that way. I have less compassion for people who don't at least try.

I think it's a bunch of BS for people that are in denial.

There is a difference between being thin and being fit. A fit person doesn't look like a bone rack, nor do they starve themselves or yo-yo diet for a quick fix. They eat well and exercise daily even when they are not at the gym. Bringing the dog out of walk on a lazy Sunday afternoon is still exercise, it's just not regimented like a gym routine may be.

Our weekly grocery bill is about $75.00 a week ( down from $120.00) and it consists of lots of fruit, veggies and clean cuts of meats. It's more expensive to buy pre-packaged junk and the junk doesn't go as far as healthy foods do as people tend to eat more of it. I make spaghetti with a meatless sauce and we get at least 2 meals out of it.

NYC just instituted a new law wherein any food establishment with 15 or more stores nationwide will have to put calorie information on their menus.

I have never counted my total calories for the day, but I know that I can have a McMuffin, hasbrowns, oj for breakfast, Pizza Hut Personal Pan Pizza for lunch, and Denny's Chicken Fried Steak, mashed potatoes, with peas and carrots for dinner. In between having a snack of a Snickers Bar, Doritos Nacho Chips, and always having with a Coca-Cola when I'm thirsty.

The problem comes into play when I try to do that every single day, 365 days a year, year in year out.

I have been going to specialty food, processesing and packaging shows for the past couple of years. I must tell you that I have learned an awful lot about how food is prepared and the holy grail of shelf stable >6 months. The longer something is shelf stable the better the opportunity to sell it is.

Food companies that specialize in taking products and making them more shelf stable. This is why when you read the labels you'll see extra chemical ingredients. Those same ingredients are included in many of the food service products we eat from the corporate chains.

You're not the only one.

?

I'm trying to understand where much of the defensiveness is coming from. I don't see anyone here bashing fat people. I see a lot of people saying that if you can't take responsibility for your own actions, then don't expect the rest of us to accommodate your inability to exhibit more self-control, and that means that if you became fat because you didn't stop yourself from eating to the point of gluttony, then it's not our job to treat you as if you have a disability.

I understand losing weight is difficult, but so is quitting smoking, facing alcoholism, or getting over any other addiction. They also all have in common the fact that while there may be a genetic predisposition for the condition, it is a personal choice to engage in the behavior that results in their condition.

Yeah I know I didn't mean for it to be so pointed at TFP members, I just think that a lot of people think a fat person has no self control when it fact they may just be attempting to reverse a lifetime of bad eating habits.

Genetically, I got screwed over. Both of my parents are overweight, and thus, so am I. I don't want anyone to feel sorry for me, but it's hard being a girl in a society that is so attracted to thinness, yet the majority of people are overweight. It just fucks with your mind.

I just think it's hypocritical of people to make assumptions when they haven't walked a mile in a persons shoe. I think people maybe need to be a little bit more sensitive and not generalize.

Losing weight has always been a battle of mine, because I want a quick fix. Which, I lost 20lbs, but within a year, I gained it all back. I've kind of told myself that I'm not going to give up what I enjoy in life - which is relaxing at times, having good food, being with people I enjoy, etc. If that means that I'm overweight, then so be it. However, I do want to get in a "healthier" routine of things. I'll never be a size 0, but I just want to try to get healthier, not necessarily skinny.

I think things would be a lot easier if I didn't have such a terrible view on fatness, dieting, etc. My mom was awful, and still is. I mean constant passive aggressiveness about my weight. It really does damage to kids when their parents are constantly complaining about their weight, and by the time you turn 12 your mom is encouraging you to do extreme diets. I used to say that I didn't want children because they'd just be fat like me.

And no, not every person who is overweight eats a ridiculous amount. I was always the person who ate less than my friends but who was bigger than them. I remember when I played ice-hockey, I'd practice 3 times during the week (1 1/2 hour practices) and play 2 games a weekend. I was REALLY working out at that point. I mean my clothes would be drenched in sweat by the time I was done with practice and games, and I ate the same as I was before. I lost a total of 10 lbs during the season, which lasted from September to April. It was SO disheartening.

And to ramble on even more... I realized that my weight will NEVER be good enough. I look back on pictures of myself when I was younger, and weighed less, and I think... "Damn I looked good there!" but at the time, I thought I was SO overweight and SO ugly.

hey buddy i saw your pic in the tfp portraits thread and i would not say your fat. but i am curious about your dieting/exercising with no loss to show for it.

did you consult a doctor during that initial stage? as i am perplexed how it is possible for you not to loose any weight when consuming less calorioes than your burning over that length of time.

glad your getting results now! top stuff!

I was fidna say the same thing about lasereth, actually.

You know, this is one key aspect of the whole issue of obesity in America. So many women, particularly those who've grown up in the past 30 years, get these SEVERE self-image issues from the media and society at large. As a guy, I look at that situation and just get so goddamn outraged.

I enjoy looking at women and admiring them. A LOT. And I have seen plenty who are a size 14 or 16 that are just smokin' hot. But anyone who falls outside "the norm" gets beaten over the head with it just about daily. It takes a shitload of mental toughness to deal with something like that your whole life, much less overcome it. I know I couldn't deal with that.

It doesn't help that the King of Queens/Family Guy image sends the message that fat MEN are cool and even funny, but chicks all have to be skinny or they're useless. It's such bullshit.

Yeah, being obese is bad - sometimes it's lifestyle, sometimes it's genetic. But FFS, I wish society as a whole would really take a good look at what we consider to be "normal" for women. It's gonna drive me out of my friggin' mind if I have kid(s) and one's a girl.

(And, uh, jenna? Yeah, I saw a picture of you as well, and your size never even crossed my mind. Your hotness did, though! :thumbsup: )

this is a great point. I think thats what is so upsetting about fat discrimination because, in some respects, the differences in how we eat and what we eat today are so drastically different that its not entirely the fault of the obese person that they are obese. Yes, we have free will, but I think most would agree that the media is incredibly persuasive.

Yeah I lost 70 pounds but I've sorta plateaued. I think my more-hardcore strength training may have caused me to gain weight (I've gained a lot of muscle in the past 6 months) so my BMI may actually be lower even though I gained weight. My geneti-gut remains though.

They also all have in common years of media attention to encourage you to engage in these activities.

The movie Thank You For Smoking is a perfect illustration.

If you are working out BMI isn't even worth looking at, I think it only applies for couch potatoes. Go by how you look and feel.

Thank you!

Once more for clarity, I don't care if you're fat! Fat or thin or in between, what kind of shape you're in, I honestly couldn't care less. Go be a fucking rhombus if you want. I'll be over here doing my thing.

I'll even extend that to say that anybody who decides to spend their time mocking people based solely on their weight needs to find a hobby because it's apparent to me that person has way too much time on their hands.

If you are an overweight individual who wants to lose weight, you have my full support. Losing weight sucks, sure. It's hard. Quitting smoking had me twitching uncontrollably for a week straight, but I still did it.

If, on the other hand, you are like jennaboo4u and are unwilling to make the necessary lifestyle changes to lose weight and get in shape, I say good on ya! Enjoy that cake, watch those movies, do whatever you want to do.

The only thing I take issue with is a lack of personal responsibility. Blaming the food or the stores or (as fucked up as this is) other people for the way you are is blame dodging, and it's stupid. It tells me that you don't understand the correlation between personal freedom and personal responsibility, and that makes me seriously question if you're ready for either.

Okay, so when it comes to weight I lucked out genetically speaking. I am thin and while currently I wouldn't describe myself as fit exactly, I'm also doing battle with my particular little genetic flaw and if you want a real sob story ask me about that some time. What I don't understand is how my genetic disposition to stay thin makes it easier for me to go for a walk every day and exercise portion control.

In North America almost all of us have access to things like personal transportation and easy access entertainment and it's made us lazy. This was recently made abundantly clear to me when I made an off-hand comment to my mother (who at 50 is in better shape than most 25 year olds) about walking 5 kilometres. She seemed to think it was a long way to go, despite the fact that this is my minimum goal for every single day.

Personally, I'm still upset with it because I'm walking it and not running it and it's kilometres and not miles. Yeah, before my current tale of tragedy and woe I used to be that guy.

So here I am. Thin, yeah, cool. Horrendously out of shape and that sucks. It's hard. It was even harder back in October when I couldn't walk further than a block and a half without becoming completely exhausted. If I walked down to the end of my street I didn't know if I'd have the stamina to make it up the hill again. But christ, I went out and I did it twice a day anyway just to prove I could. And you're going to tell me losing weight is harder than that?

I've gotten on a bit of a tangent because I'm annoyed at the idea of fat people whining 'it's too haaaard!' as if anyone who weighs less than 250 lbs has never ever done anything difficult in their lives. I quit SMOKING! It's more addictive than HEROIN! And three months later I'm STILL FUCKING IRRITABLE! If you couldn't tell.

Honestly, I'm expecting my friends and family to start a petition soon requesting that I start again. I expect I'm much easier to deal with.

So, bottom line is that no, I don't care if you're fat. As this will be the fourth time I've said this, I expect it should be perfectly clear by now. If you're happy, I'm happy for you. What I do take issue with is these 'fat acceptance' and 'fat is beautiful' movements that tout being morbidly obese as a something normal and beautiful and healthy. Being fat is not healthy. In fact, it's the opposite of healthy and will probably kill you sooner than the thin smokers. If you're okay with that, then fine. But don't try to tell me that it's something positive, because it isn't.

I'm a petite, thin person. [edit: not without willpower and struggle. I walk a solid 2 miles daily and eat only what I know how to work off] My mother is unhealthily overweight and has been struggling with it for years. She suffers from a couple of medical conditions that are associated with her weight, but nothing life-threatening. The real problems come with her quality of life. She has difficulty walking because of a broken foot she had years ago that never quite healed properly, the pain is only intensified with her weight. Her confidence is shot. She studied fashion design in her 20s and loved her thin, lithe form. But she gave up on fashion along with her waistline sometime after my older brother was born.

Seeing her struggle with weight loss programs and crushed self-confidence has affected me. It has motivated me to never get to that point myself [edit: because with how much I love to eat, I easily could weigh significantly more. I have learned to provide myself metered, balanced meals at regular intervals]. I love exercise and outdoor activities. The thought of being limited by any less-than-top physical shape is nothing I want to entertain until arthritis kicks in. I've worked with my body to understand my dietary needs through metabolism changes [edit: yes, at around age 21 I hit a metabolism change. At that point, I decided to shift toward a light vegetarian menu to partially compensate], and have always been well within a healthy range [edit: thankfully, I caught myself before I gained more than 15 pounds above what I've always weighed]. Since I matured early, I'm the same now (age 25) as I was in junior high. [edit: this is not a bragging point. This is to point out that a woman at age 25 can weigh the same as she was when she was 12, assuming she was healthy then] Ok, plus some curves. [edit: thank goodness I'm no longer half of an A cup]

I feel that a negative social stigma against obesity is crucial to correcting the epidemic.

Obesity is a form of malnutrition, and should be treated as such. Dietary counseling should be available, inexpensively, to families that see the trend. Elementary education curriculum should include piecing together appropriate diets, with homework for the parents to complete with their children, including preparing balanced menus and meals. School cafeterias should only offer balanced, sugar-free meals that encourage healthy eating.

This said - obesity and "fat" are different. One can be "fat" and still be healthy. Many people view themselves as "fat" because they simply hold themselves to an unrealistic standard.

It's all about balance. Teaching one another this balance should be a priority.

I think there are a few distinct points being made in this thread that should be addressed individually:

1. OT

The OT discussed the Fat Acceptance Movement specifically. While I am sympathetic to the ideas behind it (ending the viciousness often displayed towards the overweight, reducing the harmful effects of having a negative body image, etc.), I don't think this is something that really needs an organization and a movement. People who act likes dicks towards overweight people deserve plenty of scorn, but I just don't see why an organization needs to exist to deal with the topic. And plenty of other groups are already working to change the absurd body ideals, especially amongst women. Lastly, but also importantly, obesity is a major problem and what we really need is more help in combating that.

2. Whether or not people are often dicks towards the overweight

The answer is, very often, and being a jackass is simply never justified behavior.

3. Whether or not people in this thread have been acting like dicks towards the overweight

The answer is, some of the time. I know it is a fuzzy, subjective line between stating your beliefs and being a jerk about it, but in my opinion that line has definitely been crossed a few times. In part, because of

4. Perceived defensiveness by posters who actually are overweight

By way of explanation: a few years ago, I came out of college weighing 252, height 5'10. I finally joined a gym, started eating right, and dropped a bit over 30 pounds. I've plateaued since then, staying at around 220 (up a few, down a few), in part because I have grown lazy and don't work out quite as much as I used to. However, I still do work out and I eat pretty well - enough to maintain equilibrium without exercising every day.

It is incredibly frustrating to eat less, and better, and work out more, than most of my friends and still maintain a significantly higher weight. I'm not blaming the food industry (I know exactly what I eat, and it contains plenty of fresh produce, etc.), nor depression (I'm not), nor unfair body images. I acknowledge that I can do more to reduce my weight. But to hear it from most of the non-overweight commentators in this thread, I'm just a fat fuck completely responsible for my own pathetic situation and why can't I just find the time and energy to work out seven days a week and ingest barely enough calories to power a small child even though I'd be desperately unhappy because all my meals would taste like cardboard?

5. Self-Aggrandizement

I believe somebody else already mentioned this, but one of the more infuriating aspects of many of the posts by those who don't have weight problems is the gratuitous mention of how kick-ass their metabolism is.

I don't mean to sound defensive, or jealous, or angry, although maybe I am all those things, but there is no way that this information needs to be mentioned by every person who has never struggled with their weight. I don't begrudge anyone their body, even if it functions better than mine, but I also don't like to hear constant moralizing on the subject of weight loss from people who've never once experienced the issue in any way, shape, or form. It's fine to criticize the Fat Acceptance Movement - I did - but to do so while simultaneously spewing a bunch of stuff about pitying the fat guy in line in front of you or wondering why everyone can't make the same exact life choices you did to exercise every day just sounds like you are trying to build yourself up at others' expense, even if it isn't true.

6. Machines

We aren't machines, Ustwo and others, and we never will be. My very good friend has a sweet tooth almost as prodigious as his metabolism. Every morning in high school, he used to eat a donut and drink a Coke for breakfast. He never has eaten healthy, and never works out (hell, he's even a computer programmer), and still is quite thin.

I have managed to control my eating habits to a certain degree by willpower. I almost always eat healthy, I don't eat huge meals, and I can't even remember the last time I had dessert. And although I do work out, unless I do so very seriously for a sustained period of time, my weight maintains equilibrium. I have lost weight, and I can again, but my body doesn't do so easily. Sometimes, we're just built that way.

Furthermore, it's amazing the hatred people display towards those who have a hard time controlling their food intake. It's fucking hard, people - and to those who've never really needed to diet, you've got no idea. Stop acting like people can just flip a switch to turn off their hunger, or their love of certain foods. Has nobody on this board ever had a problem indulging in sex, or drugs, or coffee? Do you still have self-control issues with anything? Then don't be so damn quick to judge others just because their vice happens to be plainly visible.

martian

I weigh, in the eyes of society, a metric fuckton.

at my "peak" I was 345-350 lbs.

I'm the opposite of many cases in the facet that, depression makes me lose weight.

I lose my appetite when I'm upset.

You guys know all about the trials and tribulations I suffered through mentally over my ex leaving me for some guy on the internet 10 years younger than me, it resulted in me losing 30 lbs in a matter of 2 months without even trying. The completely off comment someone made about "oh hey you're looking pretty good" because they noticed I lost weight was the motivation to lose the other part.

I'm currently down to 265 or so, however, I've lost all desire to watch my intake, but on the flipside, i'm more active than I used to be in a way, and, I just recently picked up a gym membership (today will be my 1st "real" workout) and I walk 2 miles a day minimum, 4-5 miles a day on any day that I'm DJ'ing or whatever cuz I pack all my gear around in a bag or 2.

"what's your point Shauk?"

well, basically I agree 100% with your assessment of the mentality here.

Blame shifting is bullllllllcrap. People shouldn't do it, McDonald's didn't make you fat, giving them money for their shitty fatty food and stuffing your face with it while you were also doubly lazy for not getting out of your car, or going to the grocery store, or making your own food, made you fat.

There are lots of bridges in the city for people to jump off of and hurt/kill yourself, shall we sue bridge makers for not making anti-suicide bungie cords shoot out and rescue you shortly before you hit the ground? (that'd be some straight up sci-fi stuff right there, but I digress)

Now, again, i'm in the camp with Martian here that for the most part, I don't care if you're fat or not.

I don't have "hatred" for those who cannot control the food intake. I have no pity for them either though, at the end of the day, it's a choice you make. People CAN just flip a switch. You have to commit to it instead of coming across like a weak willed sack of worthless meat.

Comparing indulgences in food and fatness next to sex/drugs/coffee? No one thinks highly of people who indulge in those things for the most part either, so it gets the same amount of "whatever" from me either way.

I can tell you right now, it's mental conditioning. A strong mind leads to a strong body. I was mentally conditioned to think that because I was bigger than all the other guys, all the time while growing up, in any school I went to, i was the biggest, therefore I required more "energy" and that required more food, more desert, more soda, more utter B.S. that bit me in the ass with bad eating habits. Both my parents are overweight and were not heath conscious at all, so it was just a compounded clusterfuck of bad mental conditioning.

It's hard to re-train yourself but it's doable, you have to want it though.

Shauk, you're awesome. Has anyone told you that lately? 'cause it's really quite true.

Walking 2 miles/day - I do, too. Doesn't it feel good?

I just got back from my six (yes, six) mile walk, and will address intervening posts momentarily.

I walked six miles today in about two hours. Part of it was because I haven't been well all week and therefore haven't gotten any exercise. Most of it was because I was honestly enjoying myself. I love going out for walks, and I honestly lost track of time. Before I knew it I'd walked myself right out of town and the sun was setting, so I turned around and started back.

This is honestly how easy it is. You don't have to go to the gym and pump iron and run on a treadmill like a hyperactive hamster. Go for a walk each evening, eat more home cooked meals and skip the snacks while you're sitting in front of the television or computer. Honestly, half an hour of exercise per day plus a healthy diet will do wonders for anyone regardless of genetics or metabolism or any of that crap. You'll look better, you'll feel better. There are no drawbacks.

Of course, I understand not everybody wants to make that commitment and that's just dandy. So long as you understand that your choices have consequences you can go right ahead and snort confectioner's sugar off a hooker's ass while drinking pure cream and eating a lard sandwich if it makes you happy.

Now, addressing guy44:

You've done this handy point system and I'm going to take advantage of that. Rather than quoting, I shall simply use corresponding numbers. I'm skipping number one because I don't feel there's anything else to be said there at the moment.

2. People are dicks to other people for all sorts of reasons. Such is life. Anything that makes you different is a potential target for harassment, and given that no two people are identical it's safe to say that everyone has something about them that makes them a target. Some people are just dicks.

3. I don't really see anybody being an asshole. I don't recall making fun of people because they're fat; the consensus seems to be as stated. Be fat if you want to be, but recognize that it's not a healthy way to live and that you're personally responsible for it.

Personally, I know that I can be a prick sometimes and am perfectly comfortable with that. Being nice is often overrated.

4. If you're happy with your weight, I say more power to you. I personally don't see how your meals could taste like cardboard (there are plenty of rich, satisfying dishes available with relatively low calorie content) but it's up to you to live your life as you see fit. So long as you're not blaming other people or telling the rest of the world that they have to go out of their way to accommodate your lifestyle choice I have no problem with it.

5. I refer you back to number 3. If anything I've said here makes me a dick, well I'm okay with that.

From an evolutionary standpoint, people who put on weight easily have the better functioning body, since they're the ones who are more efficiently processing their food and getting more out of it. Small comfort, I realize.

6. Definition of a machine: a device or system that uses input in the form of energy or fuel to do useful work.

That's exactly what the human body is. It's an incredible self-maintaining enormously complex and widely adaptable machine. We use our fuel in the form of food to do all the work involved with our lives and output the waste, as... well, output.

Your metabolism isn't a fixed thing, it adapts to current conditions. This is why starvation isn't an effective way of losing weight. The more active you are, the higher your metabolism will be as your body turns more of your food into direct energy to fuel your body, rather than storing it as fat. Combine that with a proper diet tailored to your own body's personal needs and you can do whatever the fuck you want.

It really is that easy. There's no magic formula, there's no pills or methods or anything else other than just that.

Yes, it's fucking hard. I know it's fucking hard, but even though I've never had to struggle with my weight, let me tell you brother I've faced my fair share of adversity and I know all about hard. The bottom line is either you want it or you don't. If you want it, you do it anyway. There are no shortcuts, so you just have to pound it out. If you don't, well that's fine too. As I've said all along, I could care less. Just don't go trying to change everyone else because you can't work up the necessary resolve to change yourself, and we'll get along just jim dandy.

Shauk:

It's important to keep in mind that height plays a big role here too. You're never going to weigh 165 and you shouldn't even want to. I'd say even getting below 200 lbs is probably getting too low for a guy your size. Guys in the 6'6" height range can often cap 300 lbs on muscle alone, if they're built up. Shooting for a target weight in the 250 range isn't the least bit unreasonable.

Also, never listen to what the magazines or tee vee say. When I was at peak physical condition I weighed about 165 lbs. I wasn't much thicker than I am now, but had a lot more muscle and a little less fat. Despite that, according to my BMI I was slightly overweight and that, frankly, is just fucked up.

you get a cookie for remembering that I'm 6'6" ;p

@Genuinegirly, thanks :)

back @martian

I kinda feel I have to take the gym route because Walking has become such a normal thing to me (I moved into the walking lifestyle in feburary) and it's just not "exercise" to me anymore. Secondly, I just would like to be able to hop on a treadmill and have at it without worrying about all the Traffic/pedestrians/beggars/noise(both audio and visual) and be somewhere where I can stay mentally focused on what I'm doing. As I said, a strong mind is the way to a strong body so I'm going to run with this and try to stay in as a controlled of an environment as possible.

on that note, it's time to pack up my laptop and go to the gym, I just got off work :)

I'm good like that.

I'll expect my cookie in the mail next week then?

By all means, if you want to be a gym rat then go be a gym rat. My point was more that fitness and weight control are not necessarily a big investment in time or money. Half an hour a day and a good pair of shoes is all it takes. If you want to do more than I'm behind you the whole way (figuratively, of course).

I do the gym thing about five days a week and my dogs drag me on a 2 1/2 mile beach walk each morning. I don't do it so much because I want to be a "gym rat." Nor am I interested in looking like some steroid raging freak. I do the gym because I crushed my leg not long after 9-11. I spent two long periods of time on my back. First time about a year and the second right at nine months. I'm not in Shauk's height or weight class, I'm 6 even. But I've always been "big." I can't tell you the number of times, upon meeting someone new, they ask "let me guess- football, right?" "Actually no I smoked a lot dope and drank a lot in school, I thought the jocks were jerk offs, but thanks for asking."

After my second couch vacation I found I'd gained weight, not a small amount either. I had more then one doctor tell me I probably wouldn't walk again. Screw them. When I realized I been down for nine straight months I got up and started walking. I walked a couple yards at first, then a couple blocks and eventually I was walking miles. Since then I've found I have to keep moving or I feel like crap.

I disagree with some of the posters.

People who are overweight have higher incidences of some diseases. For sure, for some of them, the cost to the health system is higher (if it's a public one).

You should weigh the latter against the contributions that the person is making. Are they maybe a researcher working on something important? What is their profession? Maybe they are in business and their income easily pays for the increased public health cost. Maybe they are looking after a sick relative while working shifts as a nurse. Maybe they do community work. Maybe they have three kids to feed.

Don't lump everyone into the one basket. For sure, it's nice to be fit. But those who get on the treadmill regularly are often doing so due for themselves rather than for the community. Don't kid yourself... the average gym has more narcissists than saints.

Heck, my local gym is like that. And it's full of staff who are beaming the subtle message that if I was young, relatively uneducated, had no money, had no house, then I could be as fit as them.

i have a high metabolism, but i don't think that makes me better than someone who doesn't.

...the hell?

What does 'the community' have to do with anything?

Of course people who get fit do it for themselves. It's not the sort of thing you do for your mother. Hence the rhetoric all along about personal choice.

I can make no sense whatsoever of your post.

I agree with this.

Nimetic I don't think anyone said being fit makes you a good person.

:orly: Don't know the circles you walk in, but most of the researchers that I interact with at the University of California are underweight because they forget to eat.

This is a bunch of BS. "If you're wealthy, you have every right to be a glutton!":shakehead:


While I respect your desire to stand up for the selfless, I must point out something rather harsh.

One who does not take the necessary effort to balance their life with their nutritional needs is not equipped to best support the needs of those around them.

They have the option of walking to work, walking around the block with their loved ones in tow, and/or running in place while performing basic chores. Heck, they could make a habit of tapping their foot constantly. There are THOUSANDS of ways that one can find a way to burn calories, to see to their personal health while attending to the needs of others.


Sounds like you just did. Really, you're saying overweight = saint? = of intrinsic value to society? What a bunch of BS.


You pointed out increased health costs to the public due to obesity and yet you're saying someone wouldn't get on the treadmill for their community :confused:
You're contradicting yourself.

Sounds like you need to either find a new gym or find alternative ways of working out that don't surround you with this negative stereotype.:no:

Yeah, what she said.

same here, tully...

you go, gg...

Lasereth, I really appreciate the effort that it took to stay with a program that was not helping you meet your goals, that is perseverance. However, statements like this lead me to believe that you would greatly benefit from more education. No one's BMI will decrease when they gain weight. It is a simple mathematical formula. Unless you grow in height, you cannot gain weight (muscle or fat) and decrease your BMI. As Ustwo has said, if you were not losing weight, even though you were on a strict regemin, you must not have been doing something right. I would suggest that you see a professional to get the most out of the obvious effort that your are expending.

Now that that is aside, back to the topic. Like many people, I view the vast, vast majority of overweight, and obese people as making poor lifestyle choices, rather than having poor genetics. I realize that there are fuckers out there who can eat a whole cow and look like a Kenyan marathoner, however, nearly everyone can be relatively healthy, and reduce comorbid conditions, such as diabetes and heart problems by eating well and getting moderate exercise. The human body is pretty much a machine in this respect, garbage in-garbage out. People make lots of mistakes--working out at too high or a heart rate thinking that higher is better for losing weight, eating too little, thinking that that is good, when in reality it is sending the body into "starvation mode" etc. If anyone is having difficulty losing weight, there are resources out there to help you, most everything else is just an excuse.

Perhaps the funny thing about this thread is the day I read it I ate 4 donuts and had fries/burger for dinner.

Keep that up and I'll need to join the group :(

I don't care if you're fat or not just as long as you're a not rude slob, you're ok in my book.