How can I lose the Nice Guy/Friend Label ?
 

How should i say this.... Alright i got all these chicks numbers maybe 5 to 8. I met them at clubs,stores,work etc etc. Mostly at clubs though. But they keep saying the same damn thing, and it's starting to bug me. They say " Let's be friends". Ugh Because i'm so nice they don't want to hurt me. But i'm all for hitting it and leaving it if that's what they want. I guess their scared i might fall in love with them , but damn i won't i just respect people. Reason i ask this because of something that happen like 3 weeks ago, I was talking to this girl, she like let's be friends. I really don't say anything, but thinking this chick ain't ready for me.

But the funny part is she called me a week ago and i told my buddy to talk to her because i had to do other things , anyways they talk for like a hour. This dude is really trying to get me in with her, But she's like " He's so nice and i can only consider him a friend" . Anyways so i told him to do his thing. Now take this their just talking on the phone, no idea what he looks like. However he some how get her to sleep with him a week later or something. But he was being truthful about telling her just hitting it with no-strings attach , unless she wanted more or something. And she really went for that.

So maybe i'm a dick for respecting women and i should just be what they want guys to be. Tell them i want to hit it and if she wants more it's up to her. Of course in girl terms though :) .

I just don't know, Maybe you can advise me on something better. I'm 22y/o and i'm not going get married this young. I just want to hit up every chick i can and not really have anything serious.

But i do pick up chicks with the nice attitude,but it always seems they want to find a husband or something. DAmn this shit is bugging me..

Confidence is the ultimate turn-on. Doesn't sound like you have a lot of it. If you make yourself fun to be around you will find that people want to be around you.

Think of sex and relationships as part of the scenery rather than the goal. As in, your goal is to go out and have fun, better yourself, whatever. If you go towards that, the girl stuff will take care of itself.

If these girls are all telling you the same thing, there's probably something about you that's turning them off. Maybe you seem too eager to be nice to them, maybe you're just not that attractive- whatever it is, when a girl says something like that and then turns around and has casual sex with your friend, it's not them, it's you.

Yes, that's harsh, but it's the truth. Don't come on so hard- don't be so nice, and don't act so interested. And get a good female friend (if you have any) to give you fashion advice so you don't end up looking like a New Jersey Guido.

I believe in going straight to the point.So thanks for some pointers to work on.

I talk with some friends about it to and they said the samething. I need to work on my personality, I guess i need to be more open to saying whatever i feel.

I have the same problem as you…

I am not sure of myself around girls I like (in other words lacking in confidence).

Around people I am shy and don’t say much, but if you persist and try to get to know me I’ll “warm up” to you and you’ll find I’m quite a funny guy. I’m also intensely loyal and nice.

I used to show girls I liked them by showering them with gifts, but I realized that it only highlights my lack of “skills” and confidence, and earns you the wrong type of girls (i.e. gold diggers).

The girls that WERE girlfriend material always turned me down because I was… well I was a wuss.

Since then I’ve just “given up” on girls. Since then I have picked up weight lifting and am getting more attention from girls, but still have that lack of confidence. I’ll notice girls just outright flirting with me, but I pretend I don’t see it.

Where has that gotten me? Ha ha, I’m too ashamed to say.

Right now I no longer shower girls I like with gifts, but I show that I really interested in them, which earns me that nice guy/friend label. :( And that’s no good either.

*shrug* I need help lol :(

Confidence is one of those things that builds on itself. Meaning, having confidence in your actions and seeing a positive return results in more confidence.

If you can't seem to get the mental game working right, just fake it. Some success might help where following others who have social skills or resolving self-esteem issues didn't. Also, people become what they pretend to be.

Shit on her carpet. She'll probably think you're freaky.

Dude! Brilliant idea! Should I make like my first dog and scoot across the carpet while I'm at it? Or do I just leave the shit on my ass? :rolleyes:

You never scoot and you leave the shit in your ass. Once you shit the ball is in her court. If you shit and then look like uncomfortable with it hanging out of your ass you'll just end up back on the friend ladder.

Actually, i'm just fucking with you. I'm pretty sure there are other threads concerning exactly this topic(losing the nice guy/friend label, not shitting on the floor). Just saying.

I know. Sorry for coming down so hard on ya.

Friends? *hug* :p

fake it till ya make it?

if you pretend, you're going to attract the wrong types anyways.. and that's not what you want either..

probably better just to 'be yourself', and let a girl who naturally likes the 'nice guy type' find you...?

hmm, comparing what i wrote in previous posts to this post, i feel i have 'grown up'.. maybe this should be into the "growing up" thread..

damn you sound like me. But yeah, i figure i'm going just say whatever i think of, if i'm an asshole she'll probably like me. Only because she thinks i'm straight up with her. Soo be it. I'm going start being a dick , i'll report back tell ya how it's going. Not to her of course, but other chicks that seem like her.

Good luck. It seems that alpha male attitude and asshole attitude are REAL close.

I'm not saying to "be fake". I'm saying to act out what you wish to become. As Aristotle says, "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit."


If "being himself" was working, he wouldn't have come for advice. He is (I'm assuming) wanting to improve himself. People aren't stagnant - they are constantly changing. There isn't such a thing as "being yourself".

It's not that i want to change, But society is forcing me to change :) . I mean don't get me wrong, sometimes being nice works on some girls. But right now i'm 22, I'm to young to get married , so i want to stay away from those women that want that. When i'm 26 y/o i might think about it. But untill then, i'm going all out. Ugh hopefully i don't sound like a prick.

Plus if you ask every woman out there they always have a story about going out with a jerk " .Every woman seems to want a jerk,because every woman has a story about going out with an jerk. Well right now i'm going be that jerk. So sorry world, but society made me what i'm into.

EDIT!!!: Don't be a prick! Girls arn't looking for that. Girls arn't attracted to the "asshole quality". Women are attracted to other, more appealing qualities and after dating for awhile they realize he is an asshole and leave him. You are too extreme, you have women on poles man, north being "Nice-guy-loving Mcwants-to-marry and Hottie McSleeps-with-anyone. There is no specific type. Everyone is looking for something different. Be yourself... just turn it down.

Now Read what I had to say.

So true. I bet you anything the fact you are breathing down their neck for love and acceptance is pushing them away. It is possible to be a constant in someones life without being constantly in their face. Don't become weak or passive either because that does nothing but makes you look like your sulking.

Look, I was you a couple of years ago and I know what it is like to be the nice guy. I'm sure there are many attractive things about you that you only wish people like this woman would see. At the same time you always feel inept and jealous of those around you. here's the solution...

Take a step back. Just take a step back and try not to force so much. Relax man. Sometimes people just want to feel like shit and don't want you in their face being nice. Sometimes it's nice for a girl to come home and see that you havn't called for once. In fact, this sudden step back will make her pursue most likely.

i know this sounds like a game but I am so very anti-player and certainly anti-game. But it's kind of the rules of life. Dancing Through Life is stressfree, as well as apealing to others. Just put on some mental music, don't stress, and be there for her when she needs it. Still be the nice guy, be yourself. Just turn down the eagerness. No one is turned on by desperate actions and pleas.

Do you really think forcing from a different angle is going to help. Forcing a situation will always be forcing a situation. If he becomes another personality, like "the prick", he'll still be the desperate, eager to please, prick. He doesn't need to "change" his whole personality, or it at all. He just needs to learn social boundries.

Girls like friends because they provide a cushion to fall back on when the asshole they are dating throws them aside.

I tend to get the close friends route instead of relationship route myself, but I don't oppose it, as I've yet to meet a girl I can honestly say I remotely desired spending the rest of my life with; and ultimately, that is my key factor in judging my interest in a relationship.

My experience with females is that they tend to say they desire certain things, yet end up going after/dating guys that are completely opposite this desire. A good friend is a bit stale, too nice, and a lack in negativity also results in a lack of drama. It's boring, and boring is not a big turn on for the females I've met.

Instead (again, based solely on my experience), the girls I know tend to date assholes, fall back on a close friend, while not leaving a shitty relationship, and leaning heavily on the friend when required.

Now, this seems like a very cynical view, and it is. However, after having discussed with this a few close female friends, they've admitted doing as much.

I do not mind being there for a close friend in need at all. I do mind when a close friend disappears and only shows up when they need something or are in a bad state in life. Friendship takes work, and I know quite a few people that reap the benefits without upholding their end of the friendship.

Regarding the "be an asshole" approach.. That seems stupid to me. If you really are an asshole, then be one. Otherwise, I recommend being yourself and letting genuinely interested females find you. If you change your life to fulfill the desires of a female you want, you ultimately are just posing and being fake. As a result, you are just tricking her into liking you, and unless you intend to keep up the act for an entire lifetime, things likely aren't going to work out anyway.

One thing I will recommend is this... If you find a female you want to date, make it clear you want to date her. Do not start off the relationship with indecesiveness about what you want, because that will ultimately lead to friendship. If you want to date a girl, ask her out, tell her you want to date.. Whatever, but don't start off as just being friends, because that will be very desirable for her, as it will allow her to take advantage of the benefits of a very solid friendship (you ultimately want more than that anyway, so you will be very devoted), while also going and legitimately dating other guys.

If you want to be friends, then just be friends. If you want to date, I highly recommend doing it from the getgo. Otherwise, you are going to have a relationship in which you are likely on different levels of interest, and it's very unlikely you will have the balance of interest that is key to a relationship succeeding on a dating level. IE, you want to date, she is comfortable just being friends, or vice versa. Dating right away doesn't eliminate the chance of imbalance, but it certainly lessens the chances of it occuring.

I can't agree more with everything jimellow said. Hopefully I don't repeat his sentiments too much..

Treat em mean keep em keen seems to apply here quite well. Basically in my experience girls like dickhead guys. No idea why, they just do. If your too nice to them then as jimellow said they will see you as something to fall back on rather than someone to jump into bed with.

Also it seems almost impossible to move from being a friend once your there to anything more. Something just seems to turn off in a girls head and once you have that label its impossible to shake it off. So my advice would be to forget about the 8 or so current friends who are girls and find new girls who you talk to with the intention of getting with them.

I would also agree with attempting to meet new people instead of trying to start a relationship with the ones you already know..

Frienship gets very comfortable for females, and thus, I suspect they see no reason to risk it by dating. They have everything to lose, and ultimately very little to gain..

One of the trends I see often as a "close friend" (which I alluded to above) is that I will often only get contact from a said female when their life is down.. Relationship problems arise, suddenly they want to talk to me. And like said, that is fine, and a reasonable expectation of friendship. My issue is when their only attempt at contact comes as a result of them needing something; and any other time they are next to non-existent.

As an interesting, and very real, comparison.. I met a girl a few years ago I initially wanted to date. I didn't make that clear initially, and we fell into friendship. While friends I discussed, even suggested dating, but she said she didn't know, wasn't ready for it, etc. Understandable. At the time, she was in a comfortable spot.. Recently out of a relationship, but also pursuing other relationships on a dating level, just not interested with me.

Fast forward to currently.. She is in a situation where her boyfriend will be going away for a long time, and she suspects the relationship won't last. I've talked with her (and anyone else that will listen) about my desire to move in the near future, to get away and start life elsewhere. Suddenly, she is making suggestions that we should move in together, get married, etc.

During the time life was good for her, there was minimal to no contact. I contacted her, didn't even get called back, maybe got a text message, usually got nothing back. I'm a nice guy, so I let this go and worked on maintaining the friendship, though I think I would also have been fully justified in not doing so.

Anyway, life is always good for me, as I am an ultra positive person.. I feel like I am often overworking at maintaining friendships, and am finally realizing that it likely is not worth the effort on those that are only going to use me as a fallback guy. I find it insulting to hear from someone after an extended absence, only to hear needs or requests with the preface of small talk or true interest in how I am doing. At least cut to the bullshit and don't try to pretend to care how I am doing.

So, as a result, I am cynical in many regards relating to opposite sex friendships. This view is based heavily on reality and experiences I've had, and thus I don't necessarily think my view is entirely out of line.

And one last comment (in this post!) regarding serious friendships.. Ultimately they have allowed me to be exposed to the negative qualities in a person from a distance, and thus ultimately turned me off from pursuing dating further. If we had dated initially, these issues could have been discovered first hand, and likely dealt with, and overcome. When viewed from a distance, I am instead left asking myself if I really want to date this person after all, and ultimately, my decision has been "No, there are better girls out there." One of the benefits about close friendships (even if they aren't mutual) is that you learn a lot about the opposite sex; and in many cases this information can be greatly beneficial in determining what you want and don't want out of future partners.

Therefore, I highly endorse meeting new people and dating from the getgo. However, don't force it as a result of being desperate, as that will ultimately lead you to a lowering of standards, and the quote that I came up with (which is in my signature below) reflects that.

I'm content being single, and intend to remain single until I discover a girl that is special enough for me to want to spend the rest of my life with. I greatly doubt such a girl is one I currently know and am friends with, and thus I am glad I ended up not dating them, given the results I've seen so far. If I had dated initially, things could be totally different, but I didn't, and thus am pleased with the decisions I've made, and the results I've seen.

You have interesting points, and you list the pro's and con's of being close-friends-only with girls.

Yet, although there is no black and white answer to this question: "be close friends? or if no date, no friendship?", it seems to me that this is one of those things that needs to be decided on a case to case basis.

On the one hand, you (we) don't want to be the fallback guy, on the otherhand you find that there are many things to be learned even in a close friends-only relationship (not just about the girl herself, but about future girls).

It seems to me the message here is that, if you are 'used' as a friend (ie contacted only in times of need, and ignored otherwise), then screw the friendship. but if not, the friendship is a valuable experience even without the dating... provided you yourself are sincerely interested in having her only as a friend.

Don't think so hard, don't try so hard, and don't take yourself or anyone else too seriously. Live life like you've already done it, don't dewll on failures, and if it doesn't work out there are another couple billion women out there.

This is about the best advice for losing the "nice guy" vibe I've ever heard, and for life in general.

Now see, I have the opposite problem with girls as friends.

I have the uncanny ability to pick out good friends (as a result I only have less than 10), and in those friends I have had 3 friends that were girls.

After I got to know them REALLY well, they have wanted to date me. Of course, by this time I have started thinking of them as my little sister, of course I said, "let's be friends".

Truthfully though, the thought of dating/go further makes me shudder.

But then a girl I DO wanna date, I become friends with, and I end up not dating them or being friends with them. It's wierd, really.

Good advice though, thanks for posting!

The person who loves least controls the fate of the relationship.

I think that explains your situation nicely. When you want it, you can't change it because you don't have control. When you don't want it, you can change it because you have control.

The reason women lke bad boys is because bad boys are usually confident and exciting to be around. They put up with the other shit because of those qualities. I'm not saying become an asshole; I'm saying get a pair of balls and be fun to be around. Girls will be falling all over themselves to meet you.

This may be true, but it's very discouraging to me if it validly comments on the way most relationships work.

I gather it is true, and after watching The Breakup, that quote applies perfectly to Vince Vaughn's character and Aniston's desire to make him jealous and desire her back, while he sits around playing PlayStation and "loving least."

Unfortunately, my experiences in many ways have resulted in a quote similiar to the one holding true, but it also represents a type of relationship I don't think I would be interested in.

I have this notion of an ideal balance existing between two people that, while fluctuation of the balance in inevitable, it also ultimately receives equal amounts of effort and love from both sides, with neglect being something that isn't rewarded, but instead criticized.

Perhaps my notion is idealism and the quote above reality. So far, that seems to be the trend of reality I've experienced, and it's unfortunate.

I seem to remember a thread "What must nice guys do in order to get laid" a while back, but I can't find it.

Please don't extrapolate anything from movies to real life. Especially romantic comedies. We already have a bunch of women all damaged from the fairy tale shit; we don't need damaged men.

LLL2, what do you look like?

This *may* not matter for true love or whatever.

But, for hook ups it is all about your body.
If you are a little chubby, or thin as a stick.. well, what do you have to offer?
You need to start hitting the gym a little and shape up. With that some shallow (although, attractive) girls will start coming based on shape alone.

Some guys pull girls even when they are ugly as shit, but, you aren't that guy.

As far as becoming an asshole, that is dumb. You just need to be more truthful about what you want.

If you see a girl you want to have sex with, don't act like you are trying to be her friend, because this a lie. What you really want is to have sex with her.

If you want to date and see what happens, say that.

Best thing to do is find out fast, so that if she isn't into you, you can move on to the next girl quick.

The girl that talk to my buddy i got her number from work, and she found me. I didn't know who she was until a few day or week later after we started to talk on the phone(one of her co-workers said to call her,i'm not really the shy type), so i was playing it like let's just be friends,just in case shes a whale. But she turn out not to look too bad. Oh well. I don't think i'm the uglist dude around.

The thing is, most women really do prefer sensitive, responsible guys -- when it's time to settle down and they want a steady mate to be domestic with. But many like assertive, dangerous-seeming (and exciting), alpha-male types for flings and short relationships before they think about settling down.

Jmellow's advice is great: be a sensitive, responsible, _and assertive_ guy who's ready, willing, and able to take the lead: ask for the date, pick the place, take charge of the arrangements, and make your likes and dislikes known. That's close enough to alpha for most women. Especially when it's pretty clear to them that you won't be heartbroken if it doesn't work out.

And why should you be? It's dating. It's very unlikely that any particular woman will be "the one." If you date a bunch of people and only after five years of it find somebody who you want to spend the rest of your life with (and she with you), that's really not usual. That's the way it usually works -- although we hear more about the exceptions in the media and in fiction.

Just have fun, is all. That should be number 1. If you're not having fun on a date _right there and right now_, why do you want to be there? (Yeah, sex, I know -- but how good is it going to be, and how likely are you to get it, or even want it, if the date is totally "not you.")

It got turned into "What boring guys must do to get laid".

Little update........ So i been trying out my new Attitude, " I don't need you, you need me" and " What are you offering me" , It seems to be working i have been talking to these two chicks that i met at a club for a good week now. I don't take any of there shit and i give them some doubt about their self. It seems to be they are calling me back. Now i don't recommend this attitude if your looking for a wife. But i'm not, i'm looking for something to bust a nut on. :) But it seems they want to meet me at another club , both of them. I'm fine with taht except i'm trying to cut back on the clubbing,but then again school is coming up again , soo maybe i need to get out of my system now. Argh..

I guess you missed the part where I said don't be an asshole. :)

Not really being an asshole, just being cocky , and pointing out the Obvious to her/them. One chick , i'm not getting a good vibe from though, she just seems like a kid still , i think she 19, still acting like a high schooler ... Damn i better ask her how old she is, but she said she going to a community college, so i don't know. I know you guys going say 19 is still a kid, but when i called her today she was at the Mall, what kind of bullshit is taht (i called her about noon time). But then again she said a waitress.


But you know what , i'm all for a ride , let see what happens. I'm going out tonight also to get more numbers....

Hmmm... I seem to be getting a lot more female attraction somehow and all I'm doing is... nothing.

Ha ha. Maybe my bodybuilding liftstyle has taken me to the point where I don't need to do anything to get females.

I've also been allowing myself to say what I think without censoring myself. However, this is only humor wise, not negative-thought wise.

I also do more body actions, like today when a female coworker called me over, I shorta "danced" (more like singing leg side hop thingies) my way over three steps while I said, "Yes boss?" (the coworkers and I joke that she is my boss). The people around us got a good laugh from it.

But then again females from outside my department are fliriting with me. So something has changed about me (or them) but I just can't figure it out yet.

chicks at clubs that let you 'bust a nut' on them probably arent the good kind anyways. i'd be more afraid of std's or them sticking a needle in me

Doesn't really matter where you meet chicks man, their all the same. Unless were talking about church chicks,but that's barely saying they have higher class then a club chick these days. Now i'm not that type of guy to go find the sluttest chick in the club, but everyone that goes to club isn't a slut. But what i think that Jason762 is saying about he isn't censoring is self anymore is what women are looking for.

I think women are scare of guys these days. I think alot of women have commitment issues, On what their looking for in a man.So they try out guys except the guys that go way overboard on How much your suppose to like a girl when your first dating.So if they feel that guy might be too needy right when they start talking, she isn't going want anything to do with him. Because she doesn't want a stalker. So that's why i believe being cocky like you don't need her and she can walk away from you right now and it won't affect is the perfect attitude.

I believe women are shy people in general,so they really don't appoach you so you have to be cocky like nothing affects you. I use to be shy too, but I think i'm killing it,i been hitting up chicks anywhere and anytime. Because when a chick says no to me, i'm fine with it because it's her lost. But anytime they want to talk and she says " Buy me a drink " I walk. Because their only there for a free drink.

Kinda everywhere on that last para. :)

I see what your getting at, its the whole cocky and funny thing that's going around being taught.

I think ultimately what one needs is true confidence, and the whole cocky method is one way to exhibit it, but there are other ways. You can be genuinely nice and still be confident and not give off needy vibes. And being 'nice' doesn't necessarily entail buying her anything, it just means you are courteous, respectful, and you, most importantly, laugh with her not at her.

A good point about the buying drinks thing; if they're there for a free drink, and tell you to buy them one, then of course its a walk. But equally so, true confidence means you do whatever you feel like. So, if you happen to meet one girl in particular, and you feel like buying her a drink, I don't see a problem with it. As long as your doing it cause you feel like it, not to make her feel like she owes you something..

and buying her one drink is not bending over backwards for her. as long as you give off that vibe that your confident but nice, not needy, its all good.

Be a dick. For some reason I do not know, women LOVE assholes. I used to be a MASSIVE asshole to women back in the day. the best come on line I had was "Hi, my name is Seer, I'm an asshole, you are going to hate me". 9 times out of 10, I got them in bed that same night. If you just want to "hit it and forget it", be a dick. If you want something that will really pan out long term, then be a nice guy, get used to disapointment, and wait for the big pay off. As a nice guy, You'll have wonderfull long term realtionships every now and then, as an asshole, you'll have lots of meaningless ones. Pick the one you want.

after reading through this thread, i agree spot on with just about everything most people have to say. i used to be the nice guy, and still am to an extent. but it is extremely difficult to change the "nice guy" mentality because for many nice guys, its the foundation of a personality. YOU are the nice guy, and that's who you've always been.

women look at self confidence more than anything. sure physical attraction is what is first noticed, but if a guy has self confidence he can usually bag some chick who is ranked higher up on the totem pole.

lastly, i started reading this thread hoping that i would find an answer to a question that relates to what's being talked about here. and that question is, how hard is it (and is it even possible) to shed the "friend/nice guy" label that some chick has tagged your forehead with?

I used to have "zero" self confidence, but then I started martial arts, and teaching and shit. Now I have oodles. :D Confidence really does help. Just don't confuse it with being cocky; the two are very different.

Once you are there, the odds are you will never escape. Better to walk and spare yourself the frustration. I've done it more than once, and felt better about myself as a result.

Veritas et Lux!
Jimmy The Hutt

now, i'm a very analytical/proplem solving oriented guy, so i think there is always a solution to a problem out there. and i've been thinking about this for a while now, and i believe that there is a realization.

what i have come to realize is that a guy who finds himself in the "friend/nice guy" essentially has nominated himself to be there. for the most part, any guy has a chance with any chick, and if he wastes his opportunity to step up, he essential says "hey, i dont have the balls so i think i'm just going to settle for this".

but what is a guy like me to do if he suddenly develops the balls and confidence, and wants to shed himself of the "nice guy" label? i think it is possible. now this might just be more bullshit and me talking out of my ass than anything, but it might have just a grain of truth to it.

1.) the nice guy can find a replacement "nice guy/friend" for this chick. a sort of deflection for a time being. during this time, someone like me has an opportunity to take control of the friendship and evolve it as they see fit. i guess it would be like finding some other poor sap, omega male to take over the reigns.

2.) the nice guy can fade out of the friendship for a time (or at least limit his contact with this girl), and return down the road with a new attitude towards the "relationship".

this in theory only works when this girl is single. because returning to a chick who is still in a relationship does little to help evolve the friendship into something else.

and a little off topic here to end it: but has anyone ever heard Tom Lynkis (spelling). he's on in most places on the west coast, and has quite an interesting, and for the most part, correct view on women and relationships.

How to embrace your inner "Nice Guy" and slit his throat when he least expects it
 

Here's a scenario:

I'm about to introduce you to one of my female friends. She's gorgeous, she's single, and she's been looking at that guy at the bar in the ripped jeans and leather jacket decorated with chains all night. She just told me she's going to go over and talk to him, but I think he has "bad news" written all over him, and I decide to introduce you to her. I motion for her to come over to us, and introduce her, "This is [your name here,] I think you should meet him," and point at you. I take half a step back, and she leans in so you can hear each other over the music. She says, "Ian told me you're someone I should get to know [smiles a bit,] why does he think that?"

Time yourself, you have exactly five seconds after I say "go." You see her glance over at the guy I'm trying to keep her away from, and you know you don't have much time to impress her. GO!

five ... four ... three ... two ... one ... time's up


You said something, right? You knew I was trying to help both of you out, so you didn't freeze up. If you did, hold that thought for a few seconds. If you told her, "I won a trophy last week for the regional armpit farting championships," at least you got the trophy, because she said, "oh, ok," and not only are you not going to get to know her better, I'm gong to kick your ass after I have to pull Mr. Tough Guy off of her and realize that I don't have a current tetanus shot. Even then, you could have done worse. If your answer was along the lines of "Because I'm a nice guy," I'm going to buy you a beer to cry into, because you're never going to get women with that attitude. I'll leave out the more obvious wrong answers, because if you give those, you're beyond what I can help you with.

"But Ian, what's wrong with being a nice guy," you ask? There's nothing wrong with it. The problem is that you're exhibiting signs of Nice Guy Personality Complex (NGPC)

As a NGPC suffferer, you may have noticed that you always end up being "just friends" with women. You're like the gay friend to these women, the difference being that teh gay friend is probably having more sex than you. Your first step toward recovery is to swear to yourself, and to me (because I'll kick your ass if you don't,) that you'll never describe yourself to a woman as "nice" again. "I'm a nice guy" is like saying "she has a great personality." It means that you have one good quality and nothing else going for you. If you refuse to think of yourself as a nice guy, you'll stop projecting that image to others. Niceness is something that should be self-evident, not a quality to be worn as a medallion. It'll show through in the first few dates when you're polite to the waiter and take genuine interest in what she says.

What are you really saying when you tell her that :I'm a nice guy"? You're telling her that you're compensating for a lack of anything worthwhile to say by trying to say what you think she wants to hear. In reality, you think you're God's gift to women, the alternative to the assholes and salvation to the women who want to escape from them. You would treat her right. You're an asshole, too; you're just passive-aggressive about it. Once you get past the first few dates (if you even get that far,) the inner douchebag shines through and she sees that you're not relationship material.

What you have to do is to develop something that sets you apart from the crowd. Learn to cook and amaze her with a homecooked meal, learn to juggle and amuse her, become a wine connoisseur and introduce her to her new favorite wine, be like me and learn to do this, but for the love of God, don't just tell her that "I'm a nice guy." Learn to hold a conversation, diversify your interests and be able to join in on, or at least comprehend, most conversations that might arise. Be good at something and exude confidence via an engaging personality. Being a nice guy (the good kind, not suffering from NGPC) is great, but it can't save you if you're boring.


You're in luck. My friend's twin sister just walked in, and after this lesson, I think I can match her up wtih the perfect guy. "Ian just told me that you're someone I should get to know. Tell me a bit about yourself." She just saw the group of guys her sister is with, and a few of them are unattached. It's a good thing that you thought about what I said, because this means you only have three seconds.

Three ... two ... one ... now.

"Really? After the last few people I've met, I'm glad Ian didn't set me up with one of those boring 'nice guys.' Let's go get some drinks and talk out on the patio for a bit."

thats what i wrote in another thread and i think it applies here.

to add to that, i'd say yeah, confidence and being yourself is important. just be aware of the give and take aspect of any social relationship...

if you don't expect her to give back any affection/interest in you she won't

if you invite her to walk all over you she will

Do what I have done before in my younger years, chase after their FRIENDS, and then when their friends say how great you are in bed, or whatever, then SHE will want you. worked all the time for me.

Now If you want a REAL relationship, do what the majority seem to be saying in here and just be yourself, because if you change how you are now, you just become someone else, and lose sight of who you REALLY are. Then you will actually find the RIGHT girl for you, who likes the "good guy."

Yes, he's nominated himself to be there. However, once he's there it takes an act of God to get out. Not because of him, but simply because one never gets a second chance to make a first impression. That first impression, despite what many say, will guide someone's behavior in regards to you for quite some time. They have a view of you, and everything you say and do they will shoehorn into that view/expectation.

You can do it. You just may not be able to do it with HER. There are more women then men out there. Find a different one and try on a new attitude. Remember, faking it works just as well.

The only thing you have control of is your presence and attitude. You can't really steer shit. If you don't like the way things are going, move on. It might actually do the trick.

It sometimes works, sometimes not. More than likely, everything will return to previous behavior unless DRAMATIC changes occur during the off season.

Completely not true. Most girls who are with guys, were with other guys JUST BEFORE they were with this guy. Few of them spend any time single, particularly if they are attractive and they know it. They always trade up. When you get dumped, its not because she wants some time alone. She has already moved on to someone else.

Veritas et Lux!
Jimmy The Hutt

This is a great plan.

True, but not until you are into your 30's, and finding women a little older than you. By that point, if they are not married, they are quite tired of the typical bullshit that goes on.

Veritas et Lux!
Jimmy The Hutt

How do you lose the nice guy/friend label?

You lose your mother to Sand People, become cocky with your powers, shack up with a hot senator, get your hand chopped off by an impossible weapon, behead a Count, swear your allegience to an Emperor, try to kill your best friend/father figure, accedentally break your wifes heart so bad she somehow dies, then don a dark metal suit, right Darth?

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...avel/dARTH.jpg

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

One thing that you guys should know that I just learned this weekend. If you are going to act like you don't give a shit or a asshole. Say or do something that you think that she won't like or approve of, DON'T look for a reaction right afterwards. She will pick up on that and see right through it.

Now thats just not true! I was almost 30 (read 28) when I met my current wife, by being myself! And we have been together for almost 10 years.

It's very simple really. You don't come on as being someone who want's to get it on with them, so they put you into a category. You don't change how you act really, so they keep you there. Once you let them know what you want, it's kinda too late, they have already pidgeon holed you as a friend, and want to keep you there.

You will find that once someone has formed an opinion of you, it is very hard to change it. And, once someone as made you into a friend, that is also very hard to change.

How people see you is based in large part about how you portray yourself from the first, and let them know what you want. You can not expect these women to suddenly change what they want from you just ebcause youn have decided "It's time to make my move."

You make your move from the first, and don't be a clown. Your approach is quite wrong. You must first yes, have more confidence. if you think making them, your friends first will make it easier for you to get what you want from the first, your dead wrong, it will just make it harder. If rejection is what you most fear, it is what you will most get. Put your fears aside, and you will find yourself getting what you want, it's really that simple.

don't be too much of a d*ck but be sure not to be too eager or be cautious when around women. just be confident, and don't ask them too much if they're ok? or are they feeling ok? and so on...

There are MANY resources on the net conerning this. Many are BS...if a man has enough drive he will find the communities which deal with personal improvement and growth.