"Lanval" Marie de France - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

sevens · 10-18-2005, 02:32 PM

Let me first say that help on this will require knowledge of the Poem, I am not pretending to instruct or anything of the sort, in case anyone is reading this for those reasons, sorry.

If you have read this medival Lay, I would greatly apreciate an opinion. We discussed this in class today, ( I go to Davidson college, a small liberal arts college that competes academically with the likes of Duke, harvard, and such) and my professor proposed that Lanval is a poem describing a male fantasy. I found this to be a fairly thin reading of the poem because the Lanval is completely immasculated in the whole thing, and I couldn't see it working well. I proposed that it would be better read as a female fantasy, and good openly laughed at by several people, my teacher being one of them, and most of the women joining in ( my prof is also a female if that makes any difference).

We have a paper due soon and I decided to outline my view on the subject in an organized and presentable fashion, outlining how the poem could be read as a female fantasy.I was wondering if I am comming way out of no-where with this and am better of focusing in another direction?

I realize I didn't give much in the way of specifics simply because it is alot to write and alot to read, but if someone asks I will continue to answer questions about my views on the poem.

Sage · 10-18-2005, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Lanval

The story of the adulterous affair between Lancelot and Guinevere was known to almost every upper-class person in the Middle Ages. Eventually it brought about the ruin of Camelot, the court of King Arthur (Guinevere's husband). After being retold for generations, Guinevere's reputation became rather soiled, as this lay reflects. Arthur was originally Cornish, from the area immediately across the channel from Cornwall. He is portrayed as having conquered all of England, which bordered the still-barbaric lands of Scotland where dwelt the savage Scots and Picts. A very high percentage of Arthurian tales are set at Pentecost because it was associated with the miraculous. See Acts 2:1-13 for an account of the first Pentecost. See p. 2 of the Ovid guide for an explanation of the reference to Semiramis. Octavian was the original name of the first Roman Emperor, Augustus. Both are examples of extreme wealth. A "shift" is an undergarment somewhat like a slip. Note how Lanval pledges his exclusive love to the lady, quite spontaneously and voluntarily. "She granted him her body" means that they made love. A "boon" is a favor of some kind, in this case a magic one. Even in ordinary love affairs secrecy was crucial, but here it has a magical quality. "He was neither foolish nor ill-mannered": this sort of understated complement by negation is common in Medieval narratives. What is the "one dish" that Lanval has in abundance [153-88]? Note that among other generous deeds, Lanval gave clothes to the jongleurs (reciters of poems and tales). As a writer herself Marie takes this as a sign of high virtue. [St. John's Day] In early Arthurian stories, Gawain is the greatest of all knights, renowned for his courtesy and prowess. Later Lancelot tends to supplant him. When Lanval refuses Guenevere's proposition, what reason does he give her? How does she react? Stories like this are common: a shameless woman propositions a man and is rebuffed and takes her revenge by accusing him of trying to seduce her. Such tales are obviously popular among men who want to blame women for all sexual aggression. The direct address to the reader/listener at the end of section [311-51] is another typical Medieval narrative device. The king's use of the term "vassal" is meant to be insulting here. There is great irony, of course, in the king defending the queen's honor when she in fact has attempted to betray him; but what does the king seem to be most worried about? The "pledges" are hostages to guarantee his return. A palfrey is a small horse, often used for carrying loaded packs, suitable for women to ride. Why is the beauty of the damsel so important in [509-46]? Why do you think it is important that the maiden be wearing clothing which partly reveals her body? Her description reveals her to be an absolutely stereotyped Medieval beauty. Avalon is the magical island where the fairies dwell. Medieval fairies were normal-sized and indistinguishable from human beings except by their extraordinary beauty and magical powers. They were often mischievous or even cruel; but this one seems to take compassion on Lanval. What do you think is the lesson taught in this story, and how effectively is it conveyed?

I got that here

Based on what I've read into the poem, I'd say it was a woman's fantasy (considering it was written by a woman and all...)

Personally, my expierence in college (and doubly so in small, liberal arts college) is that if you present a paper with an argument that is backed up well, explained well, and has plenty of supporting evidence, then it's generally well-recieved (unless your teacher is a complete ass, and if so you can complan to the department head

). Write what you think you should write, present your unique opnion- don't just write something because you think the teacher will agree with it.

NC represent!

sevens · 10-18-2005, 09:46 PM

Sage you are a perfect example of why I love TFP even though I don't come here often. Thank you very much for the help, and the reference was wonderful, much appreciation.

Sage · 10-19-2005, 09:30 AM

Yes, I am freaking awesome!

Glad to be of service- good luck on your paper!

10-18-2005, 02:32 PM	#1 (permalink)
sevens Upright Location: the closest dorm room	"Lanval" Marie de France Let me first say that help on this will require knowledge of the Poem, I am not pretending to instruct or anything of the sort, in case anyone is reading this for those reasons, sorry. If you have read this medival Lay, I would greatly apreciate an opinion. We discussed this in class today, ( I go to Davidson college, a small liberal arts college that competes academically with the likes of Duke, harvard, and such) and my professor proposed that Lanval is a poem describing a male fantasy. I found this to be a fairly thin reading of the poem because the Lanval is completely immasculated in the whole thing, and I couldn't see it working well. I proposed that it would be better read as a female fantasy, and good openly laughed at by several people, my teacher being one of them, and most of the women joining in ( my prof is also a female if that makes any difference). We have a paper due soon and I decided to outline my view on the subject in an organized and presentable fashion, outlining how the poem could be read as a female fantasy.I was wondering if I am comming way out of no-where with this and am better of focusing in another direction? I realize I didn't give much in the way of specifics simply because it is alot to write and alot to read, but if someone asks I will continue to answer questions about my views on the poem. __________________ woot!

10-18-2005, 09:46 PM	#3 (permalink)
sevens Upright Location: the closest dorm room	thank you Sage you are a perfect example of why I love TFP even though I don't come here often. Thank you very much for the help, and the reference was wonderful, much appreciation. __________________ woot!

10-19-2005, 09:30 AM	#4 (permalink)
Sage hoarding all the big girl panties since 2005 Location: North side	Yes, I am freaking awesome! Glad to be of service- good luck on your paper! __________________ Sage knows our mythic history, King Arthur's and Sir Caradoc's She answers hard acrostics, has a pretty taste for paradox She quotes in elegiacs all the crimes of Heliogabalus In conics she can floor peculiarities parabolous -C'hi