going to grad school for history

[hannukah harry]

hey,
i've decided i'd like to go to grad school for history. i've been looking into some programs and noticed that there is a foreign language requirement (in some cases more than one). i plan on studying either ancient rome/greece or medieval europe.

does anyone have and advice/knowledge about:

a) what would be a good language to learn? (i've been debating between latin, french and german)

b) besides teaching or working in a museum (which are my two interests) what other options are there for someone with a masters or phd in history? (i'd like to know what else is out there)

c) good scholoship websites?

d) studying abroad? any info on doing a masters/phd in england... how is it different, will that be beneficial or harmful to me looking long term at job prospects in the states? what about summer programs? anything else?

e) what is the job market like for a history masters/phd's at the moment? any idea on the future?

f) how important is the school i go to? for instance, i realize that the difference between going to harvard/yale and arizona state is probably pretty big, but if my thesis and work is excellent, will it really make much of a difference? short term? long term?

g) anything else i should know/think about?

i've searched on the 'net and have found some stuff, not others. not really sure what i'm looking for at the moment.

[meepa]

I'm not going to answer all of your questions, but I can help you with some.

Languages: Unless you're doing American or recent English history, you must be able to read other languages. Many graduate programs in history do not require you to be able to speak or comprehend spoken language, nor even write it. Most of the time they simply desire that you have a solid ability to read it so you can delve into the primary resources and, if applicable, other scholarly work done in the other language (e.g. if you're doing the French revolution, you want to be able to read 18th C French as well as modern).

If you want to do ancient Rome and Greece, prepare to learn latin and greek. If you want to do medieval Europe, realize you're going to want to specialize in something more particular because that topic is gigantic. Lets say for argument's sake you wanted to do France. You'd need to know both French AND Latin. Basically you're stuck with learning latin for any history work in Europe unless you work in a more modern era where Latin wasn't the language of civility.

The job market for graduate degrees with history is... bad. Realize that there are a lot of people who love history, and a degree in history is a very common one that leads people to go on to graduate work. Also realize that outside of teaching, museums, and writing, the jobs are pretty non-existant. I can't comment on the job market for museums, but teaching positions are a serious pain in the ass.

Since you're talking about an advanced degree, I'm going to assume you're talking about teaching at some kind of post-highschool position. I don't know your personal situation, but if you desired a history teaching job at a university in the US, realize you're going to be entering a national job market with a pool of english-speaking applicants from all over the world. Obviously some locations are more desirous than others, but even so, any position is hard to get. Keep in mind that once someone gets a position at a university, they are aiming for tenure. Assuming they get it, that's a job for life. Read: very very low turn-over rate. And there are many phds out there.

The other option is community college. A lot of people look down their nose at these, but I'll assume you don't. Technically you only need a master's degree to teach at a 2 year school (no university will even consider you without a phd). But realize that because the job market is so bad, many phds are competing for the same community college jobs as masters grads. Also, 2-year schools tend to end up offering more temporary positions on a term-by-term basis (universities do this too), thus they aren't ponying out those sweet tenure-track jobs.

Side note: Community colleges are almost always geared towards teaching while universities (depending on the school) have a much larger emphasis on research and publishing.

As for which school you go to, like you said your work is more important than the name on your degree. Also, of course, the connections you make are critical, but these wont be limited to the faculty at wherever you attend as long as you make the effort to network. The important things I would stress when choosing a school are that 1) you pick a place that you won't mind living and working your ass off for the next several years and 2) one that has a department and professors that specifically deal with what you want to specialize in.

Remember you'll be working very closely with professors in the field you wish to pursue. For example, one school might have such-and-such professor who is the Germany history specialist. Sure, he/she knows a great deal about German history and can teach undergraduate topics up and down the board. But if you look at that person's work, maybe their research has been on social history in the 1930s or political history in the 1700s. If their work is completely out of sync with what you're interested in, you may need to look for another school with faculty that are more knowledgable in the area you care about.


The only other thing that I think YOU need to seriously think about is what are you really want to study. You say ancient rome/greece or medieval europe... That's like saying a zoologist saying "I want to specialize in animals". You're talking about three HUGE areas of study when you really need to be thinking more specifically in the long-term. Nobody expects you to know what you're going to write your thesis on, but even when you apply to history grad schools, they will typically want to know to which depts you're applying to.

I reccomend checking out some schools that you know about or think you would be interested in. Go to their website, go to the history dept, and you can often see what the profs specialty is and what kind of students they take on for graduate work. You can email their graduate-student or applications advisor and ask for any information or a rundown on how their program works. Some schools let you apply directly into a phd program while others require you to complete a masters, then compete for a phd position.

If you're still in contact with any of your old profs, email them (or if you can meet with them, do that) and try to get any info from them you can. Talk to them about what subjects you're interested in. If they're knowledgable, they can point you to collegues at other schools to look up. If look up a prof who seems to specialize in your dream topic at another school, don't hesitate to email them and politely ask for information (this is only if their email address is openly given on the school's website... if you had to dig up someone's email address, then use your better judgement).

Also, many schools only accept applications once a year (ie they only start a new graduate program at the start of the academic years, no separate schedules throughout the terms). They look at a lot of things. They will look at your undergraduate transcript, they'll look at your GRE scores (yes you will have to take this test), they'll require writing samples (both why you want to go and previous historical work you've done), and they'll want letters of recommendation.

If you're really serious about grad school in history, you have a lot of work ahead of you. And yes, it's a ton of work just to figure out how to get started, then it's a ton of work to apply to places, then if you manage to get accepted, it's all that work put together and multiplied. I hope this doesn't sound discouraging, but grad school isn't a decision that someone can just step into very easily.

And if you're set on the periods in history you were talking about, well you might as well go register for language classes now. I know a lot of people who are simply shut out of any opportunity soley because they cannot read the language that they want to study. The good news is that reading is the easiest part of a language to learn (as opposed to writing, hearing, and speaking). The bad news is if you plan to actually travel and do research in France or Italy or whatever, you will need to be able to do more than read. But always take solace in the fact that reading is far and away the most important part.

One other thing that I forgot to mention. I don't know too much about scholarships, but what I do know is you can really take the edge of the cost of school if you can get a teaching or research assistant position. Naturally this increases your work-load even more, but by doing this, many schools will often waive almost the entirety of your actual tuition, and all your left with is various fees (like technology or whatever) and the price of books. Some even give you a living stipend if you work for them.

And since you mentioned teaching as a potential career, TAing is basically a "must" to give you the experience you need for schools to consider you as a hire.

I know I've said a lot of info here and, I apologize, probably not in the most organized manner. If you have any more questions I'd be happy to clarify anything I can for you.

But the bottom line is the people who can help you the most are advisors and professors.

[soccerchamp76]

1) Good language to learn would be Latin, or whatever language you plan on specializing in. For example, if you want to study Rome, Latin would work. French is you plan on studying France.

2) Except teaching or museum jobs, the job market is slim for history grads.

3) Before you decide if you are going to go to graduate school for history, you might want to decide what you want your CAREER to be. If you want to be a teacher (at a university) you will need a PhD in whatever subject you are to teach in. First, do some soul searching and find out what you want to become, THEN decide on the grad school.

[Ustwo]

Years ago, I had a friend who's dad was a hiring type for a major company.

A friend of his was in need of a job and he asked his dad if any entry level job was available.

His dad said 'Sure, whats his major'
Son says 'History'
Dad says 'ohhhhhhhhhhhh'

No job was forthcoming.

I personally love history, and I would love to be an archeologist. I also figured out pretty early on, I don't like being poor and relying on grants. So I think of history/archeology as a hobby.

[iccky]

Originally Posted by hannukah harry

hey,
i've decided i'd like to go to grad school for history. i've been looking into some programs and noticed that there is a foreign language requirement (in some cases more than one). i plan on studying either ancient rome/greece or medieval europe.

does anyone have and advice/knowledge about:

a) what would be a good language to learn? (i've been debating between latin, french and german)

b) besides teaching or working in a museum (which are my two interests) what other options are there for someone with a masters or phd in history? (i'd like to know what else is out there)

c) good scholoship websites?

d) studying abroad? any info on doing a masters/phd in england... how is it different, will that be beneficial or harmful to me looking long term at job prospects in the states? what about summer programs? anything else?

e) what is the job market like for a history masters/phd's at the moment? any idea on the future?

f) how important is the school i go to? for instance, i realize that the difference between going to harvard/yale and arizona state is probably pretty big, but if my thesis and work is excellent, will it really make much of a difference? short term? long term?

g) anything else i should know/think about?

i've searched on the 'net and have found some stuff, not others. not really sure what i'm looking for at the moment.

Meepa covered this pretty well, but as a first year Ph.D. student (in political science) I'll try to add something.

You should understand that where you go to school is EVERYTHING. Some people get degrees from crappy schools and climb the academic ladder, but it is a very tough climb and very few make it. The first thing anyone looks at before they publish your paper/give you an interview/invite you to speak at a conference is what school you're getting your Ph.D. from. Bad school = no papers or conferences. No papers or conferences means you'll never be able to establish the reputation to overcome your bad school.

A masters in Political Science is worth about its weight in toilet paper, and I imagine a master's in History is about the same or less. The only point to getting a masters is to polish your academic resume so that you can get into a better Ph.D. program.

As far as scholarship websites go, there are some national fellowships, but most of those you apply for after you get into the program. Most of your financial aid will come from the school you're attending, in the form of TA and RA (research assistant, not residential advisor) positions. Do Not go into a Ph.D. program unless they are paying you to do it.

Again, these are just my observations from having two academic parents and beginning to enter the academy myself. If you have any more questions feel free to PM me.

[asaris]

What Icky says is good, but I really want to emphasize: Do not go to a PhD program unless they are paying your way. Jobs are hard enough to get. If the only program you can get into won't pay your way, you'll have a hell of a time getting a job when you're done.