Aztecs

[tarvuz]

I would love to have this thread be devoted to Aztecs and all aspects related to them. I love learning new trivia about them. I like their legendary history and find the story of the Conquest to be really enthralling.

I will add more later if people have any interest.

[CoachAlan]

Marshall Faulk.

Greatest. Aztec. Ever.

[tarvuz]

I really was hoping to actually talk about the Aztecs not the sports team. But yeah marshall was good.

[Tophat665]

I took a class on mesoamerican cultures in College. the one thing that really sticks with me was how fucked up the aztecs were. Their idea of a religious thing to do was to take a cord strudded with thorns, pierce their tender bits, and drag the cord back and forth through it. They were so into human sacrifice that there is actually a class of artifact called a <i>tzompli</i> (or something very like that) which is a rack for holding multipe skulls from multiple sacrifices.

Not nice people. If ever was a culture that probably needed to be killed off....

[Church]

Yeah, and they also wore the skins of their enemies during battle.

[gonadman]

I visited the ancient ruins of Chichen itsa a few years back. One of the most surreal experiences in my life was laying on the actual stone they used to sacrifice defeated warriors(by cutting out the heart while they were alive in case anyone was interested...)

[MageB420666]

Originally Posted by Tophat665

I took a class on mesoamerican cultures in College. the one thing that really sticks with me was how fucked up the aztecs were. Their idea of a religious thing to do was to take a cord strudded with thorns, pierce their tender bits, and drag the cord back and forth through it. They were so into human sacrifice that there is actually a class of artifact called a <i>tzompli</i> (or something very like that) which is a rack for holding multipe skulls from multiple sacrifices.

Not nice people. If ever was a culture that probably needed to be killed off....

I think they also pulled the cords through a piercing in their tongues. If I am remembering this correctly, the Aztec capitol city, I can't remember it's name right now but it's now present day Mexico City, was built where it is because the Aztec king had a dream saying that they should wander until they saw a bird(I think it was an eagle) sitting on a cactus and build a great city on that spot, so they wandered until they saw this, it happened to be on an island in the middle of a lake. Now your probably saying to your self, "wait a minute, Mexico City isn't on an island", well it's not now but it used to be, the lake was filled in to make more land for buildings, which is one of the reasons that Mexico City is the largest city in the world. Did anyone else know this? BTW it's not bullshit, it's a true story.

[tarvuz]

Mexico/Tenochtitlan was the name of the Aztec Capital. The "Aztecs" seem to have refered to themselves as Culhua Mexica.

I will write a good deal more later but I am going to sleep.

[bingle]

Originally Posted by Tophat665

Not nice people. If ever was a culture that probably needed to be killed off....

They really weren't any worse than medieval Europe, though. People practiced all sorts of self-mutilation in the name of religion, and let's not forget the Spanish Inquisition - they did things a lot worse to people than just sacrifice. In fact, think how many people Cortez killed when he came over - many, many more than the Aztecs ever did.

The Aztecs (and all the other related South American indigenous cultures) had a lot of things going for them, too. They had public sewer systems, brain surgery, optics, beautiful art and stone carving, and advanced social structures. Eventually, their religious impulse towards sacrifice would have stopped (it just wasn't sustainable) and they could have gone through their own renaissance, if they hadn't been destroyed.

I think it's a shame the human race lost such an interesting and complex culture.

Bingle

[jalora]

I, too, have visited Chichén Itzá. I probably laid out on the same altar you did, gonadman. Must be a touristy thing.

I was there during the equinox when the shadow snake makes its descent down the Pyramid of Kukulkán. Amazing.

[tarvuz]

Just for clarification: Chichen Itza is Mayan. Not sure when it was most active but I do know that Teotihuacan had a good deal of influence on some Mayan cities. This is in evidence by trade goods unearthed in and around Teotihuacan as well as building done in the talud and tablero style being located in Mayan territory.

As for the deaths brought upon the Triple Alliance by Cortez. A host of factors led to this. One was the alliance formed with Cortez by Tarascans and Tlaxcalans(forgive spelling), another was the Aztec Triple Alliance did not work well together in the formative steps of the Spanish presence in the Valley of Mexico, of course the vast sickness that spread played a major part as well. Finally, the worldview of the Aztecs cannot be fully understood but surely they felt safe enough to let Cortes into the city. The concept of such a small band of soldiers taking Moctezuma captive probably did not enter their minds in much the same way we did not consider the technique used in 9/11.

Much has been made of Moctezuma considering Cortez to be a returned God. In fact this is likely a mix of post Conquest justification by the Aztecs combined with Spanish promotion of such an idea.

[gonadman]

Originally Posted by tarvuz

Just for clarification: Chichen Itza is Mayan. Not sure when it was most active but I do know that Teotihuacan had a good deal of influence on some Mayan cities.

Damn! There I go again confusing ancient civilizations!

Jalora, this pic's for you

[abel]

the thing that interests me the most in not necessarily their history as far as those sacrifices, war practicesd and such.

i am more interested in their architectural skills and how their structures are still avail to see today. imagine that there may be cities that are still lost some where out there in that thick jungle!

that part intrigues me...

[tarvuz]

abel, indeed learning about their monumental architecture is very interesting. One thing to keep in mind for the Aztecs and likely the Maya(the folks with buildings poking out of the jungle here and there) is that the building reflect their history and specifically in the case of the Temple Mayor in Tenochtitlan/Mexico it is a physical stand in for a seminal event in their legendary history. It represents a mountain that in fact may exist to the north. It also has a dual identity as Tlaloc's mountain.

As for undiscovered cities..surely there are several to be "discovered"..local folks probably have a good idea but sometimes don't readily share.

I would love to see more of downtown Mexico turned into an archaeological dig to uncover more of the central precinct of Tenochtitlan/Mexico.

[abel]

no joke... we went to a small area of ruins in Progesso Mexico near Cozumel back in april and i really want to make the trak to Tulum (?sp). i know thtas a full day trip from cancun/cozumel but i bet it has to be worth every minute of it!

[bingle]

Originally Posted by abel

no joke... we went to a small area of ruins in Progesso Mexico near Cozumel back in april and i really want to make the trak to Tulum (?sp). i know thtas a full day trip from cancun/cozumel but i bet it has to be worth every minute of it!

I went to Tulum, and it was pretty amazing. The ruins were very interesting, but because there were far too many tourists wandering through them the most beautiful part for me was the jungle, right by where the cliffs fall to the sea. I sat there on the edge and watched exotic birds circle the shore, and I could see the pyramid with no people in the way - it was awe-inspiring.

Bingle

[mo42]

The Mayans were way cooler, but the Aztecs did build some pretty impressive pyramids. Too bad their political system sucked so the Spanish could recruit thousands of warriors from rival factions when they went to war.