American's use of 'then' instead of 'than'
 

Firstly, no offence intended to the North Americans, just an observation from my time on this and other forums.

I have noticed that posters from the US will type:

....blah blah more then blah blah

instead of


...blah blah more than blah blah


Anyone know why this seems to be predominant US writing trend??

I just saw it in one of the moderators notices (on the film & tv board), which prompted my question.

it happens with a lot more than then and than.

try theirs and there and your and you're and lots of other things.

"Commonly Confused Words"

or to and too

(Although I admit to using the incorrect then/than myself often.)

I noticed people in the U.K. do it just as much... at least year 11 students do...

"looser" or "loser"

"He is such a loser/looser?"

I've seen "looser" used so much I'm beginning to think it might actually be the correct term.

No, it's "loser."

Remember, there's a lot stupid people.

Sometimes, though, a word is used in the wrong way enough that it becomes the right way.

It may be be predominant on the internet, but it's wrong in America as well.

It's not endemic to the US. Just ignorance. Their, there, they're, etc...

Mostly idiots do that...mostly.

I started saying 'mostly' after seeing a re-run of Alien2. There's a line in the movie where the little girl uses it. It just kills my wife when I say it, which makes it even more funny. Recently I've caught her saying it too. :D

That's precisely what I was thinking of when I wrote "Mostly". Isn't the line, "They mostly come out at night, mostly."?

Mostly is an honest to god word. Don't be ashamed to use it.

\Most"ly\, adv. For the greatest part; for the most part; chiefly; in the main.


Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.

I'm glad most people here don't vote.

It's easy to get confused but for some reason I don't have a problem with it.

reason:
their/they're/there
its/it's
two/too/to
are harped on in elementary and middle school alot more. Americans also overuse I when they should use me because their early grammer teachers pounded it into their heads.
then/than, like that/which wasn't a big deal, at least not in my grammer education, that's why I didn't know the difference until later in life.

I think the confusion comes from mis-pronounciation(spelling?).

when i say "than" it sounds just like "then" unless i imphasize it.

how about "definately" for "definitely?"

Doggone it, phil! I was going to mention that one. :D
Oh well, you snooze, you loose. <==(I'm a lose cannon, I am.) http://forum.ru-board.com/board/s/winkgrin.gif

I think the then/than part is because most people are lazy, and the 'e' is so much closer than the 'a'.

I think that it's definitely a lack of fundamental English mechanics being taught in schools. I am a freshman in college now, and the first "lesson" I had relating to the usage of then/than was my junior year of high school, and this was only because my teacher was getting a lot of papers from students with improper usage. I've never really had a problem confusing the two, mainly because I make it a point to prounounce them differently. In the technologically advanced world of spell-check, I hope that actual knowledge is not lost.

its just the way the word is used like effect and affect similar words but with different meanings

we dont learn to accentuate in America, not in public school at least
if you don't speak English as a first language, you prolly had to study it and stressed the specifics more than us. I learned more specifics while learning Spanish in high school than I did about the English language.

In school they teach you mostly spelling throughout, which are words you all know if you have ever picked up a real book before, then stop in high school right before you get to anything difficult,
vainly attempt to reteach correct grammer to you in the middle grades (realizing your previous teachers did not, by listening to everyone in the class making the same mistakes [and if you are a kid who changed schools alot and somehow missed what seems like an entire two grades, the teacher gives just you a grammer book, and makes you study it for a month until you know what you should already know] and even if you been in the same school system forever your teachers are always asking the class that famous question "didnt your other teachers already teach you ( -insert basic principle here- (correct grammer, PEMDAS, homonyms, proper grammer, multiplication tables!)?"
then you move onto literature, that no one truly understands, unless you read alot on your own. then i dont know what comes next since i havent graduated high school yet, but dont worry i turned out all right after all, i know i am smart, but i dont know who i owe that too, if anyone at all besides myself and my genes and maybe a few people that you meet, that are role models.

its the american school system.. compare it to the british, canadian, or any other predominantly english 1st-world school system and you will see that not only can they not spell colour properly ( ;) ), but they don't spend a lot of time with then/than, who/whom, their/there/they're, and other confusions of the language...

i learned more specifics, as well as the generalities, while studying latin for four years in high school...

Taking a year of Latin in hi skool rilly hept my word tawkin' and letter makin'. I gots mad skeels wit' da communioncatin', yo! :D

I really hate when people use the word "hafta".

I think it is a variation of "have to".

More common annoying "words":
gonna
wanna
dunno
nut-uh

What gets me is the title of this thread.

"American's use of 'then' instead of 'than'"

Unless you're speaking of one American in particular, shouldn't it be "Americans'"? :p

its/it's, your/you're, lose/loose, et al. really get to me. I'm also appalled by the increasing number of proofreading mistakes in books, periodicals, and "official" websites. *sigh*

Speaking as an American, it's not all that hard to know when to use "then" and when "than" is appropriate.

Then: is used when describing a linear progression - first this, then that.

Than: is used when contrasting or separating - rather this than that.

Not tough at all.


Oh, and one last thing....since this is a grammatically-correct thread, it would be worth noting that the title should read "Americans' use of 'then' instead of 'than' ". Since there is more than one American involved, the apostrophe is utilized at the end of the word. If one American was the focus of the phrase, then the placing of the apostrophe would be correct.

Nice catch Thrae. ;)

I was scrolling through the thread wondering if anyone spotted it.

ahhh...irony...sweet sweet irony!

Is that from Schoolhouse Rocks?!!?


Anyway. What about except and accept. Oftentimes I question myself with this one in correspondence at work becuase I've seen these words misused so often I've confused myself.:crazy:

It's amazing how the useage of the English language is deteriorating. I am 35 years old and live in England. When I was at school, even at the age of seven or eight, if I had confused words like "then" and "than" or wrongly used apostrophe marks in my school work my teacher would have certainly corrected me. Do teachers no longer bother to correct spelling mistakes? An American poster here has stated that his incorrect use of "then" and "than" was only pointed out to him quite far on in his school life. Do people no longer read books...novels, history etc? How can even a remotely well-read person confuse and misuse such simple words? It's amazing! I don't really have a great problem with other people's poor English but I feel sorry for those who cannot express themselves properly in their own language. There is a reason for the rules of the English language.. If we all take each word to have the same meaning then we can perfectly understand each other. If we use different, incorrect, meanings for words then we run the risk of at best looking like uneducated idiots when we write or at worst being totally incomprehensible to others.

Examples:

Wash the car then go to school.
She is fatter than him.

There are twenty chairs in the room. (NOT chair's)

Only use an apostrophe if you are refering to someone's/something's property or component part.

The chair's seat fell off. (not great English but correct.)

It seems to me that many of the most common spelling, grammar and punctuation mistakes in English come from an American source. It's unfortunate that the poor quality of modern British teaching combined with the constant media bombardment of American culture has resulted in young Brits not being able to express themselves well in their own language.

I've read that a prominent American dictionary is to include the alternative spelling of "loser", ie "looser." Hundreds of years ago we realised that we all must keep to the same spellings if we are to be understood, thus the birth of the dictionary. It seems that now the dictionary is happy to become incorrect in order to reflect current trends. It looks like Political Correctness has now gone so far that we are afraid to discriminate against bad spelling!

Will American English eventually become a purely phonetically-spelled language? Do the words all have to have baby-spellings so that their pronunciation is obvious? It is moving in that direction. "Center" instead of "Centre"? "Looser" instead of "Loser" (why not add another couple of "o"s and make it "Looooser?" "Draft" instead of "Draught" When are they going to change "Circle" into "Circel?"

CJ.

I consider myself to be very eduacted, but I confuse than and then every once in a while when typing myself. I can't judge.

'cause us 'mericans are fing lazy :p

No, you're thinking of the conjuction one:

"And":
That's an additive, like "this and that".
"But":
That's sort of the opposite,
"Not this but that".
And then there's "or":
O-R, when you have a choice like
"This or that".
"And", "but", and "or",
Get you pretty far.

It's probably due to the pronunciation being basically the same in spoken English. I'd wager that many of the people who use "then" rather than "than" aren't mixing them up, so much as not having any recognition that "than" exists.

A more valid peeve (because, really, the then/than convention is pretty useless) would be the use of "that" v. "who".

I think it's an accect thing rather than a typo or a mis-spelt word. I have noticed the same issue particularly on American boards.

Ahem.

"Anymore" is not the same as "nowadays".


NO! IT IS NOT!

I am an English major at a four-year university in the United States. I am extremely nit-picky where mechanics, grammar, and spelling are concerned. First off, I find it very interesting that many of the folks who commented here criticizing the grammar of others did not bother to check their own. Some of the spelling found in this thread is atrocious.

I have several theories as to why grammar and spelling are perhaps not as important as they once were. For one, we have spell check now, and in my mind this makes people quite lazy. They think spell check will catch every little mistake they make, especially since Word now comes with grammar check too. But Word isn't perfect. It frequently makes error on verb confusion, usage, and will often miss homonyms. Thus we must be responsible for our own spelling and grammar errors.

Two, we use the Internet a lot, and the language we use on the Internet is not the same written language we would use to write a term paper. Truthfully, the language we use here on forums and in other forms of online communication is closer to spoken English and is rapidly becoming a vernacular of its own. Younger kids may not realize that using this written vernacular is unacceptable in other environments such as school and work.

Three, we fail to teach our children basic grammar concepts in American schools simply because teachers are too busy teaching to the test. Reading has a much higher priority in testing than writing, and with such acts as the No Child Left Behind Act in place, teachers must teach to the test or their schools face losing funding. While I will not disagree that reading and comprehension of written material is important, we must teach our children proper grammar constructions and concepts to further their comprehension. Without understanding of grammar, students cannot then go on to effective analysis of what they have read, and they certainly will not be able to synthesize from the material appropriately.

While I think it is important to have standards in education, I do not think we can truly evaluate students effectively through testing. If that is in fact the case, then teaching to the test is useless. We must take on a system of learning wherein building blocks are used, so that each concept introduced to students builds upon a previous concept. In teaching English, we must divide reading and writing so that children may learn to use both tools effectively, and learn to apply each tool to the other. We must include grammar constructions and concepts as part of the writing curriculum, as well as spelling. Too often we forget grammar in our rush to teach spelling, and we forget that it won't matter if they can spell correctly if they can't use the words to form a correct and complete sentence.

I am saddened to admit I see papers written by fellow students frequently that do not meet basic writing standards. On a rubric scale of 1-6, many papers in my 400-level English classes would rate about a 3 on mechanics alone. This is unacceptable; these are concepts to be learned before reaching university. I had a professor in a 400-level class who had to instruct our class on what comma splices were. That alone tells me we aren't doing enough to instruct our children in grammar and spelling.

Can you tell I am a future English teacher?

Its the bad english teachers. When i was a kid i could not read and they did not know (until my mother told them that she thought i could not read, this was 1st grade). In high school my english teacher said that my grammar, syntax and punctuation were fine and that i was no worse off then (oops i mean than) any other student and that my vocab was great. Being slightly dyslexic, pronunciation off, being one of those people that just cant seem to spell things correctly, and having an Autism Spectrum Disorder (AS), and I did not even know that there was difference between THAN and THEN. Testing showed that my english teacher was wrong. My mother made it to high school before any one noticed she could not read.
Feel free to criticize my english errors (or any other)

Your post was quite a breath of fresh air, actually, in terms of elegant grammar and spelling. I'm a bit of a grammar freak myself when it comes to people not checking obvious mistakes and I know how frustrating it is when that happens.

I think the reasons that we try to type as we would speak on the internet ("we" being those of us who know good grammar and spelling) are related to the fact that we like to be personal and informal and, well, strictly speaking, following the rules of strict English grammar makes a person seem very formal, business-like and, at extremes, snooty. It is quite an unfortunate fact but if a lot of people I speak to regularly via the internet didn't have their own quirks and phonetic typing idioms then I wouldn't pick up on the natural, personal clues about what they are like in real life. In fact, I like to get my words correct in speaking just as in typing but I'm not perfect and I too have my own quirks. For example, I say "gonna" in real life because I talk quickly and because of my accent and I also use it on the internet a lot. I know full well to keep it out of essays and formal documents, though.

As a result of this, I really don't mind any more about grammar and spelling online because its probably more effective in helping people communicate in a personal, informal and sometimes fun way. The rules of grammar break down here because of the exact same reason that makes the internet such a great way for people to communicate: the wonderful diversity of people.

So i'm gonna just leave my grammar frustrations to published works and formal correspondence in future :) Newspapers these days are terrible for that. I know they have deadlines but it really doesnt take much time to correct spelling and grammar. And in books, formal letters from big companies etc. Its everywhere unfortunately :crazy:

Oops, I nearly forgot to comment on the "then" vs "than" thing. There really is no need for them to be confused. They don't even sound the same when you pronounce them. But since so many people are dyslexic, we can't be too closed minded about that.

I HATE it when people say that a point is "mute" instead of being "moot." When I looked this up, however, I was surprised to learn that this actually means "a point open to debate." It's usually used to mean something that's "not worthy of debate" or "insignificant."

I've also noticed an increase in people typing "opps" instead of "oops." Honestly, is it THAT hard to tell the two apart?

Basic grammer should be taught in schools, along with spelling. (Please note that I suck at punctuation.)

When we did French Writing at school we learned a lot about the English language as our teacher had to go over the basics with us. Teaching kids to spell and write correctly keeps our languages similar. Can you imagine in 50 years an AOL kid talking to one of us, it would not even be the same language, its like people who actually speak in Leet today!

Teenagers nowadays use media and schools for standards. That's bad, my high school twas abismal in terms of quality, and newspaper are usually around a 5th grade level, magazines for teenagers aren't even on par with that.

People writing in this thread, please note that the word is "grammar", not "grammer". Thank you.

:lol: I thought you were just being a grammar nazi...

I type pretty much the same way I speak. It's not perfect grammar, but it clearly conveys what I'm trying to say. And I always make sure I don't mess up the then/than, they're/their/there and its/it's. I hate it when people mix those up. Although, to the chagrin of any American English teachers, I am now placing punctuation outside of quotes. It just makes more sense that way.

By the way, snowy, how should I have phrased my third sentence? Something inside me is saying that multiple slashes are not grammatically... kosher.

All homophones should be destroyed.
 

Let me apologize on behalf of every stupid American who ever used then/than incorrectly.

I can't tell you how important proper spelling is to the poor fuck earning minimum wage at Burger King. If only he could improve his spelling ability. He might even be made manager of that shitty Burger King. Then he'd be making $9.50 an hour! Holy shit! Doors of opportunity will present themselves to him and the world will truly be a better place when everyone can speak and spell a language that pronounces two words the same but actually spells them differently. It's not like that doesn't make sense or anything.

And again, I do so humbly apologize for being such an idiot, and being so stupid and lazy.

They are not pronounced the same. 'Then' has an 'e' and 'than' has an 'a', so they should sound different when you speak them. The problem is that not only do you not know what you are saying, but you don't know how to speak it either.

I agree, seems like my teachers in younger school tried to pound the correct their... its... and to... variations into our heads and just didn't care as much about then/than. I'm sure they marked it if it was incorrect, but they just considered the others more of a priority. And then again North Carolina doesn't exactly have the best public school system in the country and we pronounce them roughly similar anyway, so take that as what you will.

Don't forget the fact that they are completely different words.

You're absolutely right! Thank you for correcting my idiocy. I know I'll be better off in the world of fast food.

Consider:

"Sorry I fucked up your order, sir. If I give you a free packet of fries THEN will you agree not to complain to the manager?"

and

"I know, it's so much easier cleaning the women's bathroom THAN cleaning the men's bathroom."

I mean, they are so obviously completely different words, if by completely different you mean one letter or 25% different.

...somebody's angry at the world. Calm down, it's just grammar. There's a time and a place for it. Yes, fast food isn't really the place. But does that mean that everyone who doesn't write for a living shouldn't know grammar?

JFM - no reproach. I can't speak of other Americans, nor would I want to. The internet has made a mockery of the language. I don't think it's even required of the teacher's grading system anymore. Good luck trying to improve the basics on the basics.

As in meaning.

the different pronunciations of 'then' and 'than' are diminished depending on where you are from. These memes of mispronunciation are probably the main reason people spell out the wrong word (like mute instead of moot, affect vs effect) and it spills into a misuse of the word.

Keep sniping each other and i'll shut this thread down and hand out warnings, if that's what you prefer.

the fact is noone gives a damn about grammar except for retards. seriously if you cant just use common sense to create the meaning of a sentence that has bad grammar then its your own damn fault for being too stupid. i fucked up multiple times and i actually could go fix them and spend time doing it right but im not going to because everyone reading this can understand what im trying to say no matter how much of a run on sentence i type.

oooook looks like someone can't take a hint.

Guess what, typing in a forum is like carrying on a conversation: if you misspell or mispronounce a word here and there most of us will overlook it and save you the embarrassment of correcting you. Don't interpret this as acceptance of your poor communication skills. The more mistakes you make the more likely someone is going to call you on it, or simply ignore you.

it's too bad, this discussion had potential