The Nintendo DS
 

Hey all,

There was a thread I started a couple months ago about the DS, but it was mainly about speculation on the system. Now that the grand unveiling is less than a week away, I thought the system deserved a new thread.

IGN is reporting that the system has over 100 different developers with kits, all who are planning on supporting the system. This is quite a bit more support than the Virtual Boy (i feel i'm jinxing it with the VB's mere mention) ever got.

i'm a shameless Nintendo afficionado... but i'm also excited about this system for other reasons than blind devotion. :p I feel the videogame industry has really become stale lately. I mean, how many variations on the Tekken/Final Fantasy/MarioKart/GTA/Half-Life/MGS themes will the market support? while there is a good chance it will fizzle and die pretty quickly, i hope this bold move by Nintendo will prove to inject some fresh blood into game development.

and also, it'd be nice to see Nintendo have a genuine stroke of genius and innovation that used to charactize their business. Nintendo makes some bone head moves, but they're also one of the few companies that seems to care about real innovation. It'd be nice to see one of these wild-goose chases they seem to enjoy so much pay off as much as the Gameboy has.

::crosses fingers::

I dunno, just like the GBA was a pocket SNES, this'll be a pocket N64.

I hope.
*crosses fingers*

If not, then I wont have a good reason to get one since I already have anSP.

that, to me, would be a great disappointment. i want it to do things that no other console is capable of by virtue of its unique hardware.

I'm very interested in the DS so here is my take.

I find this hard to believe. After working with Nintendo for a while I've learned that getting support from them is a bit of a challenge unless you are 1st party. This is not to say that developers arent interested in the system, I just dont know anyone that has a kit yet.

There is a reason for this. Publishers want to make money. Titles like this have proven to make a profit. What certain companies don't understand is that even though you can make a clone of these games 90% of them will be garbage. With the budgets of games these days you really need to make a triple-A title to make any sort of profit. The sad thing is that some brilliant games get lost in the shuffle. Smaller development studios who dont have the assets to market their game and hype it up suffer the most from this.

Look at the specs of each system

N64
CPU: 64-bit R4300i RISC (93.75MHz) / 64-bit data paths, registers with 5-stage pipelining
Co-processor: 64-bit RISC (62.5MHz)
RAM: 4MB (36Mb) upgradeable
Graphics: Pixel Drawing Processor (RDP) built into co-processor
Colors: 16.7 million (32,000 on screen)
Polygons: 150,000 per second
Resolution: 640x480 pixels
Sound: 16 to 24-channel 16-bit stereo (up to 100 PCM channels possible)

DS

Main Processor - ARM946E-S (Running at 67 MHz)
Cache: 8 KB Instruction Cache, 4KB Data Cache
TCM: 8KB Instruction, 4KB Data
Sub Processor - ARM7TDMI (Running at 33 MHz)
Main Memory - 4 MB (Debug version has 8 MB)
ARM9/ARM7 Shared - 32KB (16KB x 2)
ARM7 Internal RAM - 64 KB
VRAM - 656 KB
Display Size - 256 x 192 RGB Screens x 2
Display Colors - 262,144 colors
2D Graphics Engine
Background - Maximum 4 layers
Objects - Maximum of 128
3D Graphics Engine
Geometric Transformation - Max 4 million vertex/sec
Polygon Rate - Max 120,000 polys/sec
Pixel Fillrate - Max 30 million pixels/sec
16 channel ADPCM/PCM (Max 8 channels can be set to PSG)
Microphone input
Wireless Communication - 802.11 Protocol
Input Device
Touch Panel
Direction Pad, A, B, L, R buttons, Start, Select (X, Y buttons being considered)

It will be a powerfull unit, the thing that really got my attention was the actuall design of the unit is not exclusive to gaming. The touch screen and 802.11 protocol really leaves things open for Nintendo to maybe do a lot more with this product. I've been a Nintendo guy ever since I got my NES and hope that this will bring them back into my good graces :) AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PUT THE DANG X/Y BUTTONS ON THE DS!! Even if a game does not use them, it allows for so much more control sets.

The recent Matrix games sold more than Prince of Persia, Mario Sunshine, Metriod Prime, Eternal Darkness, F-Zero GX, Metal Arms... the list goes on.

Gosh, that is discouraging.


HAHA, if by "control sets" you mean "top-notch SNES emulation"... then i agree.
:p :p :p

The already made the pocket N64, the iQue =) And it rocks, apparantly. Lucky chinese....

It'd be really interesting to see what Nin have come up with, though. I'm gripped.

Screw that thing, I'm hyped about the PSP.

They made the PSP, except it had a phone attatched =D

Comparing the PSP to the Ngage is like comparing the comedy stylings of Bobcat Goldwaith to Ricard Pyror. Although, Ngage has made a lot of progress with the new model..but thats not really saying much...

i'm sure the psp will have merit... merely having the playstation name and styling attached to it will be enough for many to buy it.

still, i can't help but feel it is merely a logical extension of what we already have. i'm hoping the DS will allow for new types of gameplay... not just squishing what i played on the Playstation into a handheld device.

Seriously, where did I miss the NGage coming into play? I was comparing the PSP to the DS.

Yeah, I was taking the piss =) The PSP looks to do what the N-gage did, but without so much lameness. It'll be interesting to see how it goes. Ye-e-e-s. Veeeerrrrrry interesting.

/me goes and does something sinister

First DS Details and authentic picture

http://www.usatoday.com/life/lifesty...tendo-ds_x.htm

That looks great! I'm gettin sorta excited about it now. I hope it does well.

-Lasereth

YES!!!

it looks like the button configuration will closely resemble that of the SNES. I can't wait to get some hands-on impressions of the styling and feel of the thing.

Very cool! Now just give good developer support and I'll be a happy guy!!!

Don't like the look of it but I still can't wait to get one.

First official pic of the PSP:
http://www.trenzhost.com/files/Culex/PSP.JPG

Here and here are a few 1/2 decent screen caps from the Nintendo presentation this morning. Beware Miyamoto and his sword!

Link is dead now, they should all be up on various sites soon though.

man, for relevancy sake i should've name this thread "The Sony PSP"

gosh.

Holy Jesus. Those are some awesome pics, 001110000, too cool.

Nice screenshots, mrquackers, 001110000 and Mr.D.

Damn, the PSP is looking nice as well. It's all up to the developers now.

-Lasereth

I'll never buy one because Sony is trying that "propritary media with encryption" bs. I never bought a mini-disk player for the same reason. Sony doesn't seem to realize that some people WILL NOT buy crippled products on non-standard media. Those reasons along with Sony's decision to add regional codes to the games means that I will never buy a psp.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/media/1233.jpg

The little mini-disk thing in the corner is what has me upset.

The Gamecube seems to be doing alright with minidiscs. :)

-Lasereth

Gamespot describes the media as:

"UMD (Universal Media Disc)
60mm-diameter disc
660nm laser diode
1.8GB capacity (dual-layered disc)
11Mbps transfer rate
AES crypto system
Unique disc ID
Shockproof
Regional code system
Parental lock system
Repeat ordering system"

I don't think those are standard mini-disks, note the crypto, disk ID and regional code.

I don't understand the problem. Current PS2, GC, and XBX media all have encryptions on them. If you're gonna pirate them, ya gotta go to great lengths with mod chips and all. There's regional code locks on PS2, GC, and XBX games as well. The parental lock thing is new...and it sucks. The rest has been done before though!

-Lasereth

the coverage on the software has been pretty thin so far... but i'm encouraged by what i've seen so far.

that new metroid game looks cool, as does the new mario game.

on a less dramatic note... i bet you could make really good chess and golf games with the DS hardware. dragging the pieces w/a stylus instead of fumbling w/a keypad would be a big improvement.

I hope they come up with a sketchpad type disc where you draw with the stylus.

They both look good. I think that competition is a good thing. I just hope the PSP doesn't suck up all the FF releases.

Really huh, I guess being a 99% pc-only gamer I had forgotten how crippled consoles were.

Sorry man, I brought it up. I started it all. My bad, sorta jacked your thread there. Apologies.

check this out! pre-order

Crippled? You mean you actually have to pay for games on consoles? That's not crippled. That's called not being a freeloader. :) If everyone stopped paying for games, then developers would stop making them. It's consoles and console gamers that keep the videogaming market alive. If it was as easy to pirate console games as PC games then videogames would have been dead since the PS1 used a CD format.

-Lasereth

The DS looks awesome. Nintendo did some good again.

Back to the DS. I like what I see so far...but that is all first party stuff. That is all Nintendo has these days and sadly they don't put out enough games. If they don't get the support from the larger companies the unit will be lackluster at best. The GBA is one of my favorite systems and it has done ok, but good games are few and far between. When I saw the specs on the DS I was instantly stoked...but then remembered all the shovelware that is bound to ensue. You'll get some good studios putting out some quality games, but the way I see things is that third party developers, who put out the bulk of portable games usually have to deal with less than ecxiting porperties and next no budget.

The fate of the DS lies in its games, developers need to push that technology like they did in the late nes and snes era. With all that cool technology there are tons of possibilities for some seriously cool gameplay. What to do....oh what to do? :confused:

i would describe third party support for the gamecube and n64 as being sparse... but i don't think the GBA has anything like a lack of quality 3rd party titles.

but you're right, i hope the DS gets the ball rolling in that regard.

well the third party support for the gamecube is better than the n64.

The thing that pisses me off about the DS is this:

http://www.popkid.com/nintendo/images/nintendo071.jpg
Why? Why stay with cartridges. They messed up bad when the n64 did it and now they are doing it again with the DS. *sigh*

Honestly, I'm fucking blown away by the DS... still like the look of the PSP more but the DS is out of this world. It's a great time to be a gamer!!!!

they aren't really staying w/the cartridge... it's more of just a legacy thing. all the DS games will be in the other format. personally i think this adds a lot of value to the device... as you will not have to lug around another system to play your old games.

i was actually very encouraged by the backwards compatibility... but, each to his own i suppose.

oh so the new games arent cartidge? I thought they were. Are they like minidisks or what? I like the backwards comaptability but i thought the new DS games were on cartidge too.

no, they're on a proprietary medium that is a lot like SD cards for digital cameras. i think it's just a different version of non-volatile flash ram... but not certain bout that.

so, no it isn't a disc... but not a cartridge either. i think for a portable system a disc drive would consume too much battery power and the medium would be less durable. i know my counting crows CDs feel that way. ;)

I would think it is still a cart, just a larger/better type that is able to handle the new hardware. I think the largest GBA cart holds a 16mb rom now, not totally sure on that though. If not then a new hardware specific media type is not out of the question.. the cost of said media is the question though. I'm not paying $60 a game!

edit: lousy spelling....

Someone, Shigeru Miyamoto I think, said that the DS wasn't in its final configuration and that there would be a name change, too.

They're changing the name for the Japanese release.

Ah so. I am very excited about these systems.
The DS looks kinda stale. Find a new prototype color, nintendo! You too, Sony!

The PSP is going to be available in an assortment of colours, like their Digital Cybershot Cams.

And seeing as how every Nintendo system since the N64 has had more than one colour, I don't think they'll stick with just one, either.

I don't think the graphics should set it apart. The type of Genre I look for state of the art graphics are FPSes.

PSP Wins for FPS Mode

The DS has the touch screen with a stylus. Here's a phrase for you. Hand-Held RTS. Thats gotta be a point for the DS.

RPGs? Graphics aren't everything here. IF they were.. whats up with all us D&D freaks? ;) If you've played Golden Sun, then you'd agree you don't need state of the art graphics to enjoy a very... VERY well done Console RPG.

When you think about it, There is a wide range of games that will excell on both systems equally as well because of their bonuses.

PSP will excell in games that require great graphics. So I could see PSP for being good for FPS style games on the go. That would make me want to buy it just for that. To be able to play a FPS whenever I want. Then be able to link up? Yeah that'd be cool.

Then if you look at all the possibilities of a Touch Screen on the DS.. there are many types of games that will also only excell on the DS. I mean the screen in and of itself will become THEE most universal button EVER known to a gaming system. RTSs, Chess styles, Drawing (heh, Mario party with 2,000 people at the same time.. pure madness.. MADNESS I SAY!)(remember the internet hub idea), Simplicity such as choosing your plays in a football game.... the possibilities with this touch screen is just so insane that I have yet to find an ending.

In the end? Both will be great systems, and both will have abilities that they will excell in more than the other. So plan on buying both, but figure out which options between the two appeal to you most.. then get that one first. ;)

who wants to play a FPS (metorid) with a pointer stick? I dont want to have a whole hand moving with the d pad, and another moving the gun with the other, how do i jump? item switch, on the go?

Keep ragging on Metroid for DS all ya want, but at least the DS doesn't have a new Metal Gear game that's a 3D RTS!! Yeah, Metal Gear Acid is a strategy game that's supposedly a lot like chess.

I still say both systems are looking excellent. Someone else pointed this out earlier, and it's true: the DS isn't the next Gameboy. The next Gameboy is supposed to be announced this year. The DS is just a combatant to the PSP temporarily.

-Lasereth

So??

Use the touch pad?

Nintendo has always been successful with handheld consoles(except virtual boy) and their line up of multiplayer games is already pretty good, so I imagine they'll go far with this new one. Although PSP is probably the biggest threat to their market share thats come along in a while :eek:

Well, if you're excited about it just for the franchise, you should know how Metroid lovers feel about theirs?

Damn DS game cost $50 each. thats pretty expensive for a handheld game. :mad:

http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/product/241868.asp

I know i do want the metroid game too, even though the stupid touchpad thing, but so what if Metal Gear is a RTS? I like RTS' and Metal Gear is a good game.

In regards to cartridge vs. disc. Remember that this is a handheld system with limited battery life. Imagine how much energy it takes to not only spin a disc, but also to fire a laser at it. Plus you've to move that laser around with some sort of motor... more engery comsuption = less play time

yeah, couple that with a larger/brighter/denser screen and you've got a device that is going to suck a lot of power down.

it's not going to make 10 hours... i'll take that bet any day. if sony pulls of any more than 8 hours on a single battery charge with practical usage (lets say... 6 hours of gaming plus a movie) then i'll tip my cap in their direction. but, past experience and what i know about what it takes to run a machine like that tells me that 4-5 will be tops... 3 with less than top-of-the-line batteries.

i'm wondering the same thing (to a much lesser degree) about the DS. i wonder how the two backlit screens are going to affect battery life. the GBA SP does fine imho in this area... so hopefully the DS will follow suit.

everyone seems to be using the cartridge word... though i think the medium operates differently than what we consider to be a traditional cartridge. but, since oftentimes people split videogame mediums into either disc or cart... i'll run w/it for now.

Ah, Jesus. Time for an update. All from IGN: closed open actual logo

I'll post the actual pictures later, when I can get a ftp program that will go over the crap ton of proxies we have here at work, or maybe someone will beat me to it! Here's the articleaddressing this event. Good stuff.

Good deal, Slayer. Thanks a lot for the pics! Here's one more for your viewing pleasure, a hi-res shot of the open Nintendo DS. I'll edit my earlier post for the actual logo.

EDIT: Denied. I'll post the damn thing, once again, when I get home. It's a nice pic, though. I'd hate for you all to not see it.

EDIT: HI-RES PICTURE TIME

Open:
http://appstate.edu/~bm48531/dsopenfinal.jpg

Closed:
http://appstate.edu/~bm48531/dsclosedfinal.jpg

Logo:
http://appstate.edu/~bm48531/dslogofinal.jpg

Great News!!

Man, that new design is so sharp, the PSP is not looking so slick anymore :). Im glad they ditched the original look they had at E3, that was pretty bad. Although I really do like this concept (below) from couple months back that someone made more than the official design, dont get me wrong though, Nintendo's own is quite badass.

http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthread...516257-ds1.jpg

Very nice! I like it. :drool:

Here's a side-by-side comparison of the two versions:

http://img59.exs.cx/img59/7351/_agam...prototypex.jpghttp://img61.exs.cx/img61/6838/_agam...nalproduct.jpg

Such a sexy thing to put in your hand, can't wait!

I do believe I've just creamed my pants again. That's four times over one device =(

Nintendo has made a bad mistake of using a directional pad for the DS. Many people now much prefer the use of analog stick(s) over a directional pad. I'm not saying all people want a analog stick, but it would be extremely nice with the 3D games that Nintendo seems focused on producing for the DS.

How would it close then?

I have never had a problem with a D-Pad, i use it all the time playing games on PS2. I use it on everything, I dont realy use the stick unless i have, to if the D-Pad wont work for that game. Mabey it's just the old school in me, I don't know. They can always make the D-Pad Analog, like the PS2, that could work just the same. Plus you can close the lid too. Matter of fact why not make all the buttons analog... hmm.

why is the power button so close to the d-pad? it better not be just a button, cause what if your finger accidentally slips and hits it!!??

id like to see analog sticks too. I dunno how Metroid will play... Im still buying it though.

Simple. Put a small recess above the left speaker, so the analog stick would fit when the DS is closed.

That'd be cutting the room tight for a decent analogue stick. It'd probably be far better to have an analogue d-pad, if you follow me =) Pressure sensetive and more than 8 directions.

So the ds doesn't have a port for the link cable? Why the hell not?? I was finally gonna be able to play crystal chronicles...

This was actually a huge turn off for me when I first played with the DS. You have to touch where you want to shoot with your thumb or the stylus. At first, I thought it was pretty cool. The shots go wherever you tap, but then quickly realized I was spending far more time staring at my thumb then I was at the screen. It was novel for about, oh, 5 minutes...

Hmm, most reviewers were really into Metroid's control scheme - saying it's as close as possible to mouselook as they can imagine. Must be a matter of taste.

Let me just say that I have a DS and it's by far the best invention ever made. Ever.

Mario DS is Mario 64 with 30 more stars and 4 playable characters (and multiplayer). What more could one ask for in a hand held?

I've also gotten hooked on the Sims for the DS. Too addictive.

Feel the Magic is also a very fun assortment of minigames, all of which use the touch pad.

The DS gets a 10/10 from me. Did I mention it also plays GBA games? The battery life is about 4-6 hours. I hear the PSP's battery life will be 3 hours IF you turn down the resolution all the way.

Yeah, I whole heartidly agree. I got it a few days ago, and I can't put it down. I love the minigames in mario, and I think the touchscreen is by far the best part of it.

As for the Metroid gripe, I don't use the thumb-butt. I find it too distracting, but I enjoy using the stylus pen for it, it makes combat much easier.

I too give it a 10/10. :D

I played a few games on my friends once he bought it and I'm stoked.

Feel the Magic is a lot like "Look what we can do!".. Some games are fun, but most just kinda seem like the expand the possibilites of what the DS can do..

I enjoyed the Metroid Prime control scheme, but I couldn't really get used to it in the time I played it, but I think given some time I could get it down.

I was impressed, but I'm not going to buy one until I see a new Golden Sun, or a portable RTS (please god in heaven, send me Starcraft!!)

If they release a new golden sun for the DS i'm going to be all over it. In the meantime I'm just trying to find one.

Does anyone know a store or website that still has some for under $180. Every place I've checked is either out or charging $250.

I have a DS, and it has perfect analog control... The included "thumb-stylus" really makes me feel like I'm using a mouse to play Metroid. It doesn't work as well in Mario 64, because you need to have your thumb available to press the other buttons at least sometimes. But Metroid works really well! And there's no added space for the analog sticks. Plus the Mario mini-games all use the touch pad and they're a ton of fun - they could have released a Mario Party DS with those games, or something similar.

The only part getting to me so far is the lack of good titles announced for the system - at least going by EB's release list, there's not much coming out, and most everything exciting is next year. But then, there's nowhere near 120 titles on there, so I hope some companies pull some surprises. I hope the lack of good launch titles doesn't kill the system, though.

Bingle

I am not a big fan of the portable gaming systems...It is really the games they have for them that bother me. They try to cross the bounds of the systems ablity and make the game more difficult to play. For instance its like FFVII and FFVIII. They knew in VII that they could not do 3d and made the game accordingly. But still not being able to do 3d fully they made FFVIII in a 3d manner. This made for a lowered playablity, for instance running on the map its hard to do directors because the screen is so busy with pixelated graphics. My responce has really reared of course. But the point is, The system will be only as good as its best games. And if PSP comes out with better games, The DS will go the way of the Virtual Boy (remember that portable....of course you don't).

I got a DS. The touch screen for Metroid Prime is AMAZING. Super Mario 64 doesn't really use it. Since I'm kind of out of money right now, I'm saving up money for the next game, the racing game thats coming out soon like December 7 or something. Can't wait until Gundam Seed comes out for DS and Mario Kart DS. My 2 most anticipated games.

Hoping Starcraft is gonna come out for DS

Starcraft would be WAAAAAY RAD.
I can see it now... Map on top screen, and on the bottom screen, a focus on the area/unit you've selected, and on the sides of it there'd be options. Scroll through the map with either the dpad or the right 4 buttons.

Oh man. That'd be awesome.

i agree about loving to see starcraft on the ds. what i found amusing was readin someone thinking about how great duck hunt would work on the ds. old skool fun :)

How would Duck Hunt be good? tap the ducks going across the screen? Thats more like squating bugs than shooting. "old skool" is over rated.

A good RTS like Starcraft, Warcraft or Command and Conquer would rule though. Id almost have to buy one then.

I was playing my friends DS the other day and am completely blown away by how good the control scheme is for Metroid Prime: Hunters, I'd even go so far to say it's more accurate than dual analogue and nearly as accurate as a mouse!

Mario 64 DS was amazing too... I need a DS... soon... soon..

actually it seems duck hunt will arrive even if only in mini game form

http://ds.ign.com/articles/570/570760p1.html

even if it sucks for many people nostalgia alone would make it worth a look, and of course enjoyment of 'ol skool' is up to the individual. i personally still enjoy some old games quite a bit.

Where the hell do you live? They only retail for $149 US.

I'm in Louisiana. None of the local stores had any left so I started looking online. I've found some since then for $150.