Why the Wii is winning
 

This Christmas I took my Wii home for the family to enjoy. Every day large groups of people would gather around it and play it. The family loved playing the sports games and those that didn't want to play loved to watch it. For hours on end my entire extended family would sit there and play. Even my 93 year old grandma and 70 year old aunt played it. After I left my uncle (50ish) and my brother (39) both immediately went out and bought one. In addition my 70 year old aunt also wants to go buy one....

This system has an amazing pull to non-traditional gamers that is making it out pace other system sales. It will be interesting to see how this effects the types of games that come out for the Wii. Already many games are loaded with mini-games and some games are nothing but mini-games. For example we bought Raving Rabbids 2 last week and the family couldn't stop laughing while playing that game. Also the game is the best party game I have found so far for the Wii and i'm tempted to go buy the first one because I hear it is just as good.

Right now the games list for the Wii is pretty small and there aren't a lot of big hitters out there. If the mass of new games draws in more developers the 360 and ps3 are both going to have a lot of trouble catching up to the sales of this console.

Have you heard what a big hit Wii Sports is in retirement homes? It's huge--they have Wii Bowling tournaments and things! Amazing.

Both the Rabbids games are AWESOME party games. I played #2 a couple days ago with two people who had never touched the Wii before, one of whom had never played any video games in her life--and she WON. It's really the most accessible gaming platform ever created.

I love the Wii!
But also I'm noticing this trend towards games ANYONE can play, with other systems.

Take, for example, the XBox 360 game Rock Band

Also, if you remember Dance Dance Revolution...

I can sing, but I'm terrible at video games. I was able to participate and have fun with Rock Band! If you can hold a mic, and follow along with words you can make it work. You don't even have to be on pitch for the beginner level. It's like doing Karaoke!

The Wii is winning because it's cheap and has games that appeal to even non-gamers. Unfortunately majority of the games for it lack substance and are mostly a compilation of mini games for multiple people to play together.

Ive never played it.

The control system just sounds strange to me.

Completely and utterly true.

If the Wii was $400 or $600 like its competitors at launch it wouldn't have did nearly as well. The control scheme does open it up to casual gamers and that is a major plus. If you're a true gamer it's quite obvious that the Wii is not "winning" per say but it's definitely outselling its competition.

But if you are a corporation selling the consoles that is "winning". Especially if you look at the sales for previous Nintendo systems.

which is exactly the direction more console makers want to go. games in general are becoming easier. i know a lot of people who dont play games because they just dont understand the joys of button mashing.
the Wii games may be simple, but playing Wii bowling with a few people is much more fun than playing Gears of War by myself.

Why the Wii is winning

Baraka_Guru is actually buying his first console since the Sega Genesis...and it's a Wii!! :eek:

Undoubtedly. :surprised:

What about playing Gears of War with friends? I'd rather play Gears than Wii Bowling with friends.

I believe the NES is winning, technically.

Given that the N64 and Gamecube both launched at $200 and both have some of the highest ranked games of all time, clearly neither price nor games by itself is the answer.

Its all about the interface, and the market expansion that it helped create. Ideally they'd probably like to follow in the footsteps of the DS as much as possible.

I bought my first console, period, when I bought my Wii. My mom wants one--we took it home at Thanksgiving and everyone loved it. It is very popular with our friends, too.

My main issue with the Wii is that through the eyes of an outsider, it seems like it's capable of doing more than it really can. It is viewed by many people as a revolution in console gaming, but it's technically just an outdated console with a unique controller. Its somewhat deceptive exterior lures people into buying it, and the subsequent buzz over the massive shortages lures even more people in. That, along with the fact that it's about half the price of its competition, is why the Wii is winning.

There are a few great games on the Wii, and since Mario Galaxy came out (by far the best game on the console), I haven't regretted my purchase as much. I'm just disappointed in the fact that most of the games to come out on the Wii are either franchise-based kids games (Surf's Up, Ratatouille, High School Musical), or compilations of mingames that become stale rather quickly (Wii Play, Wario Ware, Raving Rabbids). The only games that have real depth are the first party, big-name nintendo titles, specifically Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3, and Zelda. The Wii is definitely not a gamer's console.

Maybe it's just a case of "the grass is greener" though, since I only own a Wii and don't own a 360 or PS3. I expected more out of the Wii when I chose it over the competitors and purchased it. Looking at the flood of great games coming out on other consoles, and the slow trickle of good games on the Wii, I am disappointed.

I just used a Wii this evening with friends. It was a blast. I'm seriously considering purchasing one, even though it would destroy my GPA.

You know that the N64 did absolutely abyssmally and was decimated by the PS1 that generation, right? Its sales were terrible and there were 6-month droughts every year between a game even worth renting. The Gamecube suffered the same fate until its price dropped to $99....see a trend?

You know thats sort of my point, right? Both of the previous Nintendo home consoles launched at $200, lower than their competitors, and like the Dreamcast, has games at the top of the all time rankings and were soundly beaten.

Gamecube and XBOX price drops did NOTHING to help their marketshare. The effect that a price drop has is dependent on your current position. The Playstation price drops further solidified their lead, but the price drops by those that were trailing did not turn around their fortunes, it was a mere temporary boost and then back to baseline.

The only time in history that a company has been able to turn around its momentum after a full year of being soundly beaten would be SNES vs Genesis, but that had more to do with Sega's own self destruction.

In other words, what Sony is calling for now(a comeback), is completely unprecedented and extremely unlikely.

I agree, I just whole-heartedly believe that price is the absolute major contributing factor to whether a videogame system sells or not. I also believe that price drops will cause short-term spikes in sales but won't cause a huge market share difference unless the price goes down to a really low point. The Wii launched at <I>less than half</I> the price of one of its competitors and is still the cheapest console out there, hence the 360 and PS3 price drops not causing a huge difference. When the Gamecube dropped to $99, the PS2 and XBox were still $200. Another console for <I>half</I> the price of its competitors...and then the GC boomed in sales because of it.

Another indicator of company-based "winning" for Nintendo is the fact that they are actually earning a profit for each unit sold. Unlike the loss-leader marketing models of Microsoft and Sony.

I wouldn't really call this a win for anyone besides Nintendo stakeholders. Gamers get a much less powerful console because of this. The Gamecube wasn't as powerful as the rest and the Wii is laughable compared to the 360 and PS3 technology and feature-wise. People always say Nintendo is the only company that cares about gamers because they made their console so cheap. Couldn't it be argued that Nintendo is the only gaming company that <I>doesn't</I> care about gamers because they keep releasing underpowered, underfeatured consoles so they can reap a profit? Sony and MS seem to care a lot about gamers if they're releasing consoles that they take a loss on so gamers get top of the line graphics and features. /endrant

Yeah, but are PS3 developers using the full capacity of the hardware? Are they using it efficiently? A system's games should be a balance of technology and gameplay. Nintendo is winning many hearts. Sony is causing a lot of grief. Oh, and there's that XBox defect, too.

But would you play GoW with your parents ?

That is the thing that makes the Wii winning.

But as it was already mentionned the party thread is gaining in the other console. Scene it with the tv show buzzer might be the start of something for XBOX.

Non gamers wants easy to control. One buzzer and four button is the scene it control. Non-gamers are lost when you have to control two sticks, 4 triggers and 4 buttons.

Nintendo have devised, through the DS and Wii, the greatest peice of marketing genius since the new testament. In terms of units sold, marketshares and profits, nintendo have won this round of the console wars. The OP has a first hand account of the selling power the wii has.

Sure, the Wii isn't the most powerful console on the market, doesn't have the greatest games (suckness, i know), but it has a market share the size of my house and more and more people joining up every day. The coffers at ninty are swelling with the money they're making, especially after the failures with the N64 and GC. Do you actually need full HD on a game at this time? No, how many people do you know with a full HD tv? I know 3, the best tv i have is merely HD ready, which is fine with my wii. You don't need a dvd player because you can get them for £15, and lets not get started about hd-dvd or bluray. The internet service is suprisingly good for a first attempt

The reason i know the wii is winning, over anything else? Sony ditched their original PS3 controller and put it motion sensors. That my friend is the win, microsoft will do it with their next console, sony with theirs, and ninty will still be far ahead with their next controller.

The problems for the wii is that there arn't that many good games, a hangover from the poor third party development for consoles past. If that changes nintendo will have pulled themselves around in epic proportions.

And, at the end of the day, its all about money, something nintendo is making plenty of. More money for them equals more money to spend on R&D, and more fun for the gamers. What good is it to gamers when the company they use hasn't got enough money to do anything in the first place (sega).

One question, Las - what would you define as 'winning' characteristics?

I'd hardly say the Wii is short on features. Raw power definately but as far as general features go it's unbeaten. Nintendo managed to turn a profit with the Gamecube as well, and that was -hardly- underpowered in it's day. Sony and Microsoft release consoles at a loss so they retain market share, plain and simple. Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft aren't charities, they exist to make money and to provide consumers with entertainment.

This is just plain wrong.

PS2:
CPU - 294 MHz (299 MHz on newer versions)
GPU - 147 MHz

GC:
CPU - 486 MHz PowerPC
GPU - 162 MHz

XBOX:
CPU - 733 MHz
GPU - 233 MHz

The Gamecube was in some cases almost able to keep up with the xbox on the few occasions that it had really been pushed.

That aside, history indicates that the most powerful console never wins the generation.

Even though the Wii doesn't have a tun of great games yet it soon will. Developers are going to see a large demographic for targeting their games. Pure numbers is going to drive the games to be developed for the Wii. In addition, the entire gaming industry is going to win because of the Wii as many people who never touched games in the past are now casual gamers that can be target and possibly converted to be hard core gamers.

Lots of good games.

If it's just plain wrong, how come the Gamecube was "almost able" to keep up with the XBox on "a few occasions?"

They couldn't port games straight to the GC from PS2 and Xbox because the hardware couldn't keep up.

Thats ridiculous. The PS2 was absolutely the weakest out of the 3. Cold hard fact. I cant even believe you're trying to argue it. Look at the raw system spec numbers! Do you think they are inaccurate or what?

Why cant you port games straight from one platform to another?

Because thats not how ports work. Games are built around a particular platform. Generally, any platform its ported to afterwards will suffer. Playstation 2 was the primary platform for most multiplatform games because of its marketshare status.

Perhaps you're familiar with the differences between Resident Evil 4 for Gamecube and for Playstation 2. Its a miracle that Capcom even could pull it off.

Screenshot comparison:
http://www.the-horror.com/forums/showthread.php?t=256

Video
http://videos.emule.com/play/residen...n-(5qz0LbKpZtI

I'll agree with RE4.

But a quick google search yields a dozen pages saying the PS2 had better graphics than the GC. Up for debate I suppose.

Either way, the GC didn't have a DVD/CD player and extremely limited online support. My point is what you get in the console. The Wii, just like the GC offered limited functions, hence its lower price.

I'm just jumping in to say the Wii is winning because it is dirt cheap.

If the PS3 or 360 was $250, it would be winning as well. End of story.

It's extremely innovative, but that price is the main factor. Trust me, I work with soccer moms. I KNOW THINGS

Here's a question for those of you that own a Wii. How long have you owned it and do you still use it? I've owned mine for full year now and when I first got it I played it quite a bit, but within the last six months it was turned on twice, maybe three times, and that's it. It's uniqueness wore off very quickly and now it just seems like a novelty item to me.

Wii Sports is good for turning on spur of the moment and gaming with the family (those two or three times that I said I turned it on in the past six months was when family came to visit), but beyond that the game library is utter trash. Yes, I know it has a couple great games, but comparing those couple great games to the amount of great games on the PS3 or 360, it just doesn't stack up.

I have four friends with a Wii that all got it within two months of when I got mine and they all experienced the same. They used it a helluva lot when they first got it, but now it just collects dust due to shatty, gimmicky games.

To help know the type of gamer this is coming from: In terms of a casual gamer, I would say we are not - all of us game quit a bit. I own a PS3, one of the four friends I mentioned above owns a PS3 also and another a 360. All three of us just shake our heads when we look at the Wii's library of games. I agree with everyone above that said price was #1 factor it is selling well. It certainly isn't the capabilities of the system that are making it sell (both 360 and PS3 have so much more to them, most notably online play - which is something important to myself and all of my friends when looking at games).

Don't get me wrong, I do recommend to all that ask to buy a Wii for those times when family or friends get together, but I tell them to stop beyond that point and not bother buying any games.

Hmm... I wonder if my little rant there added anything to the thread.... :)

Look at modern ps2 games. Like the God of War and Tekken 5. Those games look far better than any games I have ever seen on either the gamecube or the xbox.

And the Wii appeals to a WAY larger demographic than any of the other systems, I think that alone with always insure that it will get more sales. Its like comparing ticket sales between a PG movie and an R movie. only so many people can go to the R movie

I'd play GoW with my friends too if any of them were gamers. I could probably play against their kids when they are old enough to play Mature rated games.

The GC had more powerful specs than the PS2, but not as powerful as the Xbox. The reason games suffered on the Gamecube was not because of the lack of hardware capability, it was because the PS2 was the leader of the pack, and developers were developing games for PS2 and porting them over to Gamecube. Therefore, the Gamecube suffered from inferior graphics and performance on most ports, regardless of its specifications. The exact same problem is happening with the PS3 right now. Developers are making games for the leader of the hd-capable pack (Xbox 360) and porting them over to the PS3, and the PS3 is suffering despite its superior specifications. This is why many of the launch titles on PS3 that were also on Xbox 360 were inferior looking than their Xbox 360 counterparts.


Back on topic, though. I am extremely frustrated with the Wii. Nintendo has had a history of being a step behind the competition--The N64 was cartridge-based while all of the competitors were CD-based. The Gamecube was CD-based, but used a special format that only allowed compatibility with gamecube games, and didn't allow DVD-playback or any other "perks" associated with running DVD format. The Gamecube also epically failed in executing any kind of online support, even though there was a network adapter for the Gamecube. Nintendo claimed that "people don't want to play games online," which is absolutely ridiculous.

Now, keeping up with tradition, the Wii is technically a step behind the competition. Unlike Nintendo's past console ventures however, the Wii is a huge success. However, the exact same problems that plagued the Gamecube are afflicting the Wii. Like the gamecube, the only games really worth checking out are the first-party big name franchises (mario, zelda, metroid), and the occasional big name third party franchises (resident evil). Also, the Wii has online capabilities, but is very rarely used for actual Wii games. Sure, you can download virtual console games, and there are a few channels like the "Look at Mii" channel that lets you create and vote on Mii contests, and the "Everybody Votes" channel where you... vote on things. This isn't exciting to me, though. Also, despite the fact that the Wii uses a DVD drive for its games, DVD movie playback is not allowed. WHY?


I think that many, if not most, of the people that are purchasing Wiis are not purchasing it with the idea of a gaming platform in mind. They are purchasing it as if it were a toy, and ignoring most of the titles on the console except for the bundled in Wii Sports. There have been approximately 15 million Wiis sold worldwide, but the total sales for Super Mario Galaxy, easily the best game on the console, hasn't even broken 2 million sales. The Xbox 360 has sold approximately 17 million consoles now, and Halo 3 broke 3 million sales within the first couple weeks of release. It's now up to about 8 million.

I think the naiveté of most of the people that currently own Wiis is going to cause Nintendo to stay the course that they've been on for a while--one step behind technologically, one step behind in availability of good games, and one step forward in "innovative" controller design (although, Time Crisis 4 on PS3 proves that pretty much all of the Wiimote's main features can easily be ported to other consoles if you add a sensor bar). The Wii remote is truly an innovation in home console gaming, but it is not a big enough step to cover up the obsolescence of everything else regarding the Wii.

Is there something that DOESNT look like a failure when compared to Halo 3?

Mario Galaxy is doing fine. I expect it to outsell Halo 3 in the long term, as a result of marketshare. It sold 1.12 Million in the U.S. in November, with expectations as high as another million for December, once those numbers come in (3rd week of January I think). For the week of 12/24-12/31, it sold 68,000 in Japan, bringing the total to 748,000.

Thats almost 3 Million without Europe. The 360 has its target demographic down. The Wii base is much more broad.

Regarding online play, the reason Nintendo isnt fully on board is simply money. I dont buy their stance on family friendliness. Maybe if one of the proponents of online play could actually make a dollar, Nintendo might give it a second thought. It requires a lot of changes in the design of the hardware, if you are going to be able to do some of the things that make a robust online network profitable (media playback/distribution for example).

I think they've made the right decisions regarding the console. If online means that much to you, you have 2 alternatives. People are voting with their dollars.

Also, that 8 million number is shipped, or sold to retailers, not sell through to consumers. It came from the same recent statement where they have 17.7 M hardware units sold to retailers.

360 shipments by quarter
This is why conservatism pays off:

Profit in the game industry, 1998 to present

Microsoft – Entertainment and Devices Division (Home and Entertainment) through 1st Q FY 2008 ended September 30 2007
Sony – Game division through 2nd Q FY 2007 ended September 30 2007
Nintendo – Overall through 2nd Q FY 2008 ended September 30 2007. Average exchange rate: 1 US $ = 119.34 yen

* -- it's fiscal year for both Microsoft and Nintendo
** -- it's FY+1 for Sony for comparison reasons

And remember, the 360 has a year's head start on the Wii. Look at how many good/great Wii games (half a dozen) there are to good/great PS3 games (Resistance is a maybe). Nobody can argue the Wii has the strongest software library at the moment, because that's hands-down the 360, but it's still relatively early days.

Yeah, except it didn't sell 1.12 million in the U.S. in November. That was the total U.S. sales on December 23. Perhaps it sold another million between then and now, but I doubt it, since most of those purchases were probably for Christmas. That, combined with the 748,000 in japan, equals almost 2 Million, as I originally stated.

But yeah, my point was not that the Xbox 360 is more successful than the Wii, the system sales really have nothing to do with what I'm saying, except for showing how many people own the consoles relative to how many copies of the games were sold. I would understand if Super Mario Galaxy only sold 2 million copies if the Wii had sold as many consoles as the PS3, but the Wii is basically tied up with the 360 in console sales, despite the year difference in release date. There is no argument that the Wii is doing better than all of the other consoles in system sales. But what about games? It seems like many of the Wii owners are purchasing the console just to have a "Wii Sports" machine, rather than a real gaming platform. I wonder if some people even know that you can purchase other games for the Wii.

What frustrates me most is that, the Wii is not that incredibly unique. The Wii remote, although really neat for the first few hours of gameplay, eventually just comes off as a glorified light gun. "Shake the remote to swing your sword", or "shake the remote to do a spin attack", or "shake the remote to throw a grenade" is not real immersion, and it actually gets kind of annoying after playing for more than an hour or so. There are a few games that use the Wii remote in unique ways, but the games themselves are usually really flat, one dimensional mini games that lose their appeal after playing them just a few times. Of course, this is all subjective, but I'll bet many of the people that own Wiis feel the same way as me, or will eventually when the novelty wears off.

I'm not trying to burst any bubbles here, but I think the Wii's success owes a lot to peoples' bubbles NOT being bursted until it's too late, and they've dumped $250 on a glorified Gamecube. And Nintendo's success is just going to encourage them to continue what they're doing-- releasing substandard hardware, with two or three great first party games a year, and a veritable bevy of disgustingly terrible third party abominations.

Except Galaxy DID sell 1.12 Million for the NOVEMBER NPD, which covered Nov 4 to Dec 1. Mario Galaxy came out 11/12, and was only in the reporting period for 3 of the 4 weeks.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6184008...result;title;2
http://kotaku.com/gaming/npd/novembe...les-333823.php
http://www.joystiq.com/2007/12/13/no...nes-a-winner/4
http://blog.wired.com/games/2007/12/...er-npd-ni.html
http://www.gamegrep.com/industry_new...eads_software/

Do you concede that you've made a mistake? or do we have to bring an arbiter in to interpret the meaning of November

I'll address the software issue in another post tomorrow, since it'll take a while to compile the data. In short, the software issue is yet another non-issue.

Yeah, I was actually looking at other sources before I read your post, and I was wrong about the sales in November. However, my stance hasn't changed, because give or take a million sales doesn't really change the fact that SMG has sold a fraction of what it should have sold relative to the console sales. This really should have been the Wii's flagship title.


Edit: And I'm not sure what you mean about the "software issue"... do you mean to tell me that there are good third party games on the Wii? Because I am aware that there are a few (Resident Evil, Zack and Wiki, Trauma Center), but given that the console has been out a year, that's not really that great.

Why does nobody complain about all the third party trash on the PS2? ;)

Nintendo is about "fun"
they dont care about elaborate story lines, they don't care about pushing the technological envelope graphics wise. they don't care about trying to get a "badass" gamer centric image.

I respect that company, but there are at LEAST 3 different sub markets within the gaming community.

The casuals (the popcap gamers) who can only really play a little per day, at break or something cuz they've got nothing better to do.
The "deeps", the people who've been playing since atari, have the konami code memorized, and have a favorite final fantasy.
The mediums, the people drawn in by the glitzy flashy high tech graphics but really don't give 2 shits about a story line anyway
oh and thats just the big ones. I mean you can narrow it down more to competitive gamers, pc enthusiasts, mmo junkies, etc..

Nintendo just appeals to all ages, and thats the safest bet when dealing with numbers.

The first two points are incorrect, but you're spot on with the third one, Shauk. This is the first generation that they've intentionally downplayed the power of their console.

Because it has an absolutely tremendous amount of third party borderline game of the year titles that came out every single year, usually every 3 months. :thumbsup:

Theres super smash bro's & Geometry wars coming out soon, both of those should be good hits.

If only the dimwits hadn't sold Rare we would have had some cracking games (Perfect Dark 3 w/ a lightgun, awesome!)

I've seen gameplay videos of this.

It looks like you need ADHD and/or energy drinks and/or illicit uppers as a prerequisite to play. Looks cool, though:
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I own both an Xbox 360 and a Wii. Playing Wii sports is highly addictive, but quitting is just as easy. I haven't played with the console since March or April, I think.

When it comes to the games available, I personally despised Wario Ware, but only barely got started playing Zelda. I love Wii tennis and boxing, though. :) Elebits was boring, and I imagine most of the other games are the same way.. I like puzzle games (TETRIS), and I have yet to see one advertised for Wii that gets my attention enough to buy it.

I have a 360 largely because of its online connectivity. Wii is really the most fun when you're playing against another person (usually in the same room), and though you can have "friends" online, the technology to play games against people online hasn't yet been developed. If that was complete, I probably wouldn't own a 360.

I got a 360 largely for my weakness for Halo. I really don't play games that much, but they're useful for rainy, miserable days when I have someone over to entertain. I'm competitive, and playing a game tends to be more interactive than watching TV or a movie. I haven't yet set my 360 up in my school apartment so I don't ruin my GPA in my last quarter. I'm good at resisting the pull of games.. so sometimes I really wonder why I have them to begin with. :confused:

I'm going to start with this, which is basically the very common, "but it has a low attach rate" argument.

Why is the attach rate skewed lower than their competitors?

Key point: Attach rates drop as marketshare increases.

This can be approached two ways, size of overall marketshare, and SPEED of increase, I'll take overall marketshare first as it relates to attach rates.

Historically, only the hardcore buys systems near launch, and then as more people filter in with different interests, due to lower prices and a wider range of software, overall attach rate drops. The top selling games for playstation 2, having sold over 120M hardware units, are GTA:VC and Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec at roughly 15 M a piece (12.5% attach). It drops dramatically from there. Mario Galaxy, excluding Europe, has about 3 million out of roughly 13 million hardware (~23%)

# Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (12 million)[95]
# Grand Theft Auto III (12 million,[94] may include PC and Xbox versions)
# Gran Turismo 4 (9.52 million)[82]
# Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty (7 million)[96]
# Final Fantasy X (6.6 million)[97]
# Kingdom Hearts (5.6 million shipped)[72]

You can certainly argue that the Playstation 2 doesnt have a "flagship" series, though for many people, Gran Turismo is Sony's big fish.

Nintendo has come out of the gate attracting different groups of people than would traditionally buy a game machine, whereas normally, the casuals wouldnt come into play until later in the generation when the prices are lower.

Contrast this with Microsoft's strategy - From the start it was to consolidate the "hardcore" base, and also making new "pseudo-hardcore" players, due to the hooks of online and achievements. While it has served to get them a ridiculous software attach rate, hardware install base growth is limited.

Next: Speed of increase, which is a more relevant issue to the Wii, being the fastest selling game machine in history.

Selling as many consoles as the 360 has in half the time means that weeks of ownership are going to be a lot lower. If Nintendo had sold that amount over 2 years rather than 1, people wouldve had a lot more time, and more importantly MONEY, to buy games. They basically just got the system into their home and are out maybe $350-400+ after their first batch of games and accessories.

As an aside about Mario Galaxy, you havent provided any grounds to as why the current rate of sales is disappointing, outside of your personal view that a "flagship" series ought to do better. I think this post overall frames why I think they are NOT disappointing.

In my next post, I shall address 3rd party software sales and profit, since thats another hot issue thats somewhat related. Its only numbers that give us a bigger picture. Whether you personally think the software is good is as irrelevant as my disliking the software on the HD consoles.

My latest issue of EGM had a very interesting article in it about Nintendo's software policy. Sony and Microsoft both have entire departments allocated to quality control. That means if a game is proposed to be developed for the system, it has to go through a review board that approves or denies the game. If the tech demo or quality of the game is lower than what the board feels is necessary then the game is denied. You can't just make a product for the PS3 or 360 -- it has to adhere to a certain amount of "quality points." Nintendo used to have this board as well but got rid of it at the end of the Gamecub era.

The abolishment of <I>any</I> type of quality control for the Wii is showing. It has a huge amount of shovelware, meaning games shoveled out of the studio for the sole purpose of making a profit. Look at www.metacritic.com and check out how many green games the PS3, 360, and Wii have...the Wii is in dead last by a long shot.

Nintendo's Vice President was quoted <B>directly</B> to saying that a good indicator of how well a console is doing is how many bad games are released and how many people buy them. Nintendo knows it's selling bad games for the Wii, and actually approves of it.

There's a rumor sort of floating around the Internet about how the Wii has a severe lack of good games even though its press and sales should indicate otherwise. This isn't a rumor, it's a fact. Nintendo has zero quality control measures in place for their games and Sony and Microsoft do. Any argument about the Wii being the better console in terms of quality of games is null.

I fully agree with this statement. People forget or dont know about some of the stuff in the PS2 library. You know Ninjabread Man for the Wii? That got a PS2 release (though not in the states) back in 2005. Where was Sony's QA board then?

Furthermore, there was a TON of shit on the NES/SNES.

The answer is that the 360/PS3 development costs are too high to make shovelware that attractive of an offer. Its also too high to make a lot of other things attractive as well, which is something I'm going to address later.

Did someone say Metacritic?

http://xs322.xs.to/xs322/07506/chart2.jpg

See also: # of Dreamcast, Gamecube and N64 games at the top of the Gamerankings.com list.

Good games have almost nothing to do with the success of a console, believe it or not.

If you look at overall reviews of past consoles, such as Gamecube, Xbox, etc, you will find that these systems have hundreds of quality games regardless of how much shovelware is released. For me, it will be about affordability of the system and the games. For games, we're talking about an avg. of $50-60 vs. $30-40 [Xbox360/PS3 vs. Wii (approx. avg in Cdn$)]. I'm confident that there will be hundreds of quality games released on the Wii eventually.

There seems to be a misunderstanding about the views of a successful console. There is not a doubt in my mind that the Wii is unbelievably successful. What I will argue is <I>why</I> it's successful.

Ever since the Wii launched it has been hyped into oblivion about being the best gaming console ever and is sooo much fun. But for actual gamers, the system is quite ordinary.

What's making the Wii sell like it is has nothing to do with the quality of the games being released. It's the price combined with the casual-gaming attraction. Sure the Wii is successful but I can't just sit back and watch the Wii rake in compliments about being so amazing when it has arguably 4 games worth buying, 2 which have debuted on the Gamecube with arguably better controls.

I have zero problem with Nintendo succeeding. I like all videogame systems and all videogame companies. What I do have a problem with is overrated, sensationalistic, hyped-to-the-moon videogame systems that stemmed from its low price and its competitors (a huge part of Wii's success is due to the PS3 doing so many things wrong, mainly the price).

Whoever has the largest marketshare, regardless of why, is going to have the largest number of games.

However has the largest number of games, is going to have the largest number of good games in the long run, even if the average number or the ratio of good games is lower.

Thats the Playstation 1/2 strategy at work.

I would be undeniably proud of Nintendo if this actually happens. I want to see the Wii win this generation because of quality games, not because it's $250 with casual-friendly controllers.

I know that the Wii has only been out a year, and honestly, for the year its been out, it has a much higher number of good games than most consoles release in their first year (mainly because Nintendo blew their load and released a game for pretty much every big N franchise... mario, zelda, metroid). The PS2's first year was abysmal in regards to good games coming out, so maybe I'm a little too hard on the Wii. (did I just say "hard on the Wii"? lolz.)

I'm just disappointed with the complete package. In the original trailers, the japanese guy playing Zelda made it look so awesome, like the sword would mimic the exact motions of the Wii remote. I was really hoping for something like that, but it's more of a "twitch your arm to swing your sword", which actually comes off more annoying to me than innovative. I'm just also afraid that the only worthwhile titles to look forward to will be first party titles. I mean, how many mario games can they release in one year? Look at that listing of gamecube games on Metacritic... how many of those are third party games? I love Nintendo's games, they rarely disappoint me when it comes to making great games... But as long as the Wii keeps getting half-assed PS2/PSP ports for third party titles and the occasional good first party title, I'm going to look at it as a glorified gamecube with a neat albeit overhyped control scheme.

Also, on a more superficial note, I wonder how long Nintendo plans to stretch out the life of the Wii. I own an HDTV, and right now in 2008, the Wii doesn't look that great graphically, I'd say about the equivalent of what I'd expect from consoles in 2002. Now what about the year 2011? How will the Wii look then? I'm sure by then, PC graphics will jump up at least another step, and PS3 and 360 games may even start looking dated. The Wii will still be sporting decade-old graphics capabilities. I'm not saying that graphics make the game, or even have any type of significance in the gameplay, but the Wii will look like the equivalent of what the Playstation 1 looks right now. Not that great.

Future proofing is something of a fictional concept. It has never worked for consoles, and it really isnt particularly effective with PCs either, given how fast the technology moves.

The market is what really decides console lifespan. The leader in marketshare should always want to continue the current generation as long as possible, whereas the others will want to jump into the next generation sooner.

Looking more dated shouldnt matter because it already does look dated. With the graphical difference already so huge, I find it hard to believe that a bigger difference will suddenly sway the masses.

Nintendo cant maintain lead marketshare without wide 3rd party support. I'm sure they learned the lesson well the prior 2 generations.

Thats why I conclude that if they are able to maintain lead marketshare, you will see good 3rd party games.

Ideally they want to mimic their success with the DS. Yes, Nintendo still is the primary driver for the platform, but they have vast 3rd party support. The PSP blows the DS out of the water from a technical standpoint, and everyone is alright with it.

Another thing to remember, too, is that with the lower price point that was profitable from the beginning, Nintendo has plenty of room to move. I wouldn't be surprised if a higher-powered Wii was released mid cycle - look at the Expansion Pak for the N64, and the 64DD, for example.

I partly agree. I didn't even (not even briefly) consider either xbox 360 or PS3 simply because of the cost.

There are priorities in the queue before gaming (hockey for the kids, swiming for the kids, camps for March Break, summer for the kids, family vacations) that compete for the entertainment dollar before I'm going to drop that kind of coin on a gaminig system. Particularly since we already have Super NES, PS2, 3 gameboys, 2 DS and a PSP in the house. Add to that the 3 computers, I'm not motivated.

The Wii on the other hand was priced right. good enough that a relative was able to justify purchasing one as a family Christmas gift without breaking the bank. Not only that, but as pointed out above, the interactiveness of the gaming even for observation kept a group of children and adults occupied for most of New Year's Eve.

I've since added to the game collection (Metroid Prime - Corruption, super Mario Galaxy and some Rabit killing game) and they seem to be engaging enough. I find that they are dissapointing in that they are more traditional style, while I want more that involves the motion of the controller. I find that Mario Galaxy is a lot like Ratchet and Clank. In fact, so is Metroid.

In the future it would be interesting to develop Tai Chi exercises or even explore the world of sensuality (ok, porn...) :thumbsup:

Wii Fit is SO for you and your family.

If you're looking for a game that uses a lot of controller motion detection and that the kids will enjoy, check out Wario Ware, my nieces go crazy over that game. Unfortunately though, that's about the extent of what you're going to get out of the Wii's controller. The motion detection is really over-exaggerated by the Wii commercials.

So far the game that uses the controller the best has been Rayman Rabbids 2 (excluding Wii sports). It is also a 4 player party game so you should purchase that if that isn't the Rabbit killing game you are referring to.

sounds good.. Wii Fit and Wario Ware. I'll research them on line.

One thing you might consider doing is subscribing to a game rental service. I found one online that seems similar to the U.S.'s Gamefly service, but it's Canadian: http://www.gameaccess.ca It looks like they also have used games. Wii games are expensive, but renting lets you figure out which ones you like without suffering from buyer's remorse, plus you can order used games for less money. Kinda nice.

Wow, thanks for the link, snowy. Now all I need is a Wii... :sad:

Wii Fit doesn't look fun at all to me. Guess it's just not my thing.

Here's a video that explains pretty much everything Wii Fit has to offer:

Theres a big new demographic that rates their games completely differently than the traditional core gamer.

Who is making Carnival Games a best seller in the U.S.? Its not you or me. In a traditional rating system, the casual games can be quite poor, but a lot of people enjoy them.

Heres a slightly better Wii Fit impression :rolleyes: http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=81819

I've heard fantastic things about the skiing, but this is the part that I found relevant enough to make the recommendation:

I haven't bought a console since the original playstation. At that point back in 1998 I switched to the PC for gaming and never looked back. As I get older though, I'm less and less of a gamer as time dwindles, my head of the household role grows, my family grows, etc.

But I'm going to get a wii. Even my wife wants to give it a try.

I just can't find one at Best Buy. I'd get it somewhere else, but I have a $250 gift card to best buy. So I'm stuck. I'm sure the shortages will ease up eventually.

We're on the same boat with this one. Except my wife started the whole thing, since she played it first and told me all about it. I tried my brother's and now I want one.

My Best Buy GCs are burning a hole in my pocket.... come oooonnn, Wii! :hyper:

I was told that there will be larger quantities available the weekend of 1/26 by the Walmart manager who helped me out. :D

How I got mine this weekend? I'd been calling Target, Walmart, Circuit City, BestBuy, and a couple of others since 12/27 every day, since they had no idea when they'd be getting more. I happened on a Walmart employee in the store one day who recognized me from my workplace and was able to find out that he'd had a tip that there was a shipment of 3 or 4 coming in Saturday night and would be on the floor at 7 a.m. I set my alarm for my day of rest at 5:30 a.m. and was there at 6:30. To shorten a very long story, I ended up going home with my little one (13 y/o) and got a call not two hours later, from the store manager. I had to meet her in the layaway department, ask for her, pay back there so she could bag it so I wouldn't get jumped. Crazzzzy! I'd thought it was nuts that I saw 'em on eBay for $350 - 400, but she told me that when they came in, they're kept under lock and key until the moment they're sold; they never put them out on the floor! And this store isn't in the Hood, it's surrounded by upscale areas!

I just hope for your sake they don't start inflating prices!?!?

I really hope you find one soon!

I was standing in the new Best Buy at the north end of the Eaton Centre, chatting to the sales guy about the game selection, when an entire shipment of Wii's came in. There they were, and no customers to buy them. They may still be there.


Thanks for the link Snowy! I'll definitely give it a try.

-- Last night I was trying to play Super Metroid and it was actually a lot of fun. But my wife was complaining of nausea as I was trying to get used to the motion of the controllers.

One of the annoying things about that game is that you can't start more than 3 games. All three of my sons have a game in progress, and I could start a new game, so I jumped on the one that had the least progress (the kid with the most homework!) and played his file without saving.

that's it, except it's the first one, and only cost $19.99.

The wii sucks.I have both a wii and a ps3,i got the wii first and i thought it really was awesome.But after a bit of playing a got tired of the poor control mecanics(except on some rare games),the N64 graphics and the bad sound effects.When i bought my ps3 i couldn't believe that i could've loved a wii lol.Seriously my ps3 was one of the best things i bought in my life.
Sorry for the spelling,i'm french canadian lol

Holy crap! How did I miss this?! I work within walking distance of that place!! :mad:

Thanks for the tip, but I read it 6 days too late, I think. :sad:

I'm tempted to get the first one but what i've read is that the multiplayer isn't as good as the second. Namely many of the minigames are hotseat....

Anyone see that they are porting spore to the Wii? That should be a big hit. Since the wiimote behaves like a mouse I suspect we will see a lot of PC game ports to the Wii. We are likely to get some RTS games that you don't see much on other consoles because of the heavy mouse mechanics.

I'm still hunting, I make regular rounds to a couple different best buys on my commute to work. Stop at them every couple days.

lolz... Bought a PS3 a couple weeks ago, haven't touched the Wii since then.

I'm pretty sure I've played that game before, only it was called Asteroids then. Or was it Defender?

It's like Asteroids on steroids.

Finally found a wii today. I called a best buy, sat on hold for 10+ minutes before someone answered, and they put the last one they had today on hold for me.

Yay!! Enjoy.

*jeal:mad:us*




Edit: Enj:py