Outstanding post, tecoyah. Thank you.

Again, I'm only going to respond to what you directed at me, to keep the post length down. What you said to the others is also, largely, wrong, but I'll let them address that.

Oh come on. You can't really think this can you? Mohammad lived in a place where there were pigs. Or he had friends that lived where there were pigs. There's other meat out there that will make you sick as well - in fact ANY meat can make you sick if it's not cooked properly. Beef (e-coli) chicken (salmonella), sushi (you name it, it's in there), lobster (if it dies before you cook it, it's already spoiled). The real miracle is how Mohammad only managed to identify ONE out of the jillions of types of meat that can make you sick.




Wrong again. A wood fired oven can get hotter than 750 degrees F. They had ovens back then. Ergo, they could get the meat hotter than 160 degrees.

Direct cooking over a fire can get it even hotter. The coals in a camp fire can be hotter than 2,000 degrees. Wood won't even burn with an open flame below around 530 degrees. All of these temperatures far exceed the minimum safe cooking temperatures of pork.




You are wrong. If it was mentioned in the Quran, then the Quran is wrong. The videos are wrong too. Mountains are not nails. Period.


And an absolute misinterpretation of what I said. I didn't say EVERYONE who believes in a God is ignorant. I said that people who get the entirety of their science knowledge from a religious text, one I might add which has never been subjected to scientific peer review, are setting themselves up to believe untruths, and are setting themselves up to never learn any new information.

Well, that's nice, but fixing computers does not mean you know anything factually correct about geology or chemistry. Einstein believed in a creator, but didn't buy the yarn that the creator made everything in 7 days. You can believe in a god without having to 100% believe in everything the religious book about that god tells you.



Well, I'm sorry you feel that way, but anyone who thinks nothing was hotter than 160 degrees until modern times, and who thinks mountains are nails that hold the world still, and who does not understand the principles of evolution (whether you believe in it or not, you can at least understand what it actually says), does not know science.

back from work,

debaser,

Muhammad did not invent. How can he invent when he was a poor goat herder and he could not read or write to get this data. Also the layers, atmospheres, above earth are 7. I named them in a previous post. Also when God said he created 7 earths other than earth, indeed, it was 7 earths. He did not tell us where but if we name the planets we can see:

Mercury
Venus
Earth
Mars
Jupiter
Saturn
Neptune
Pluto

The number is 8 - earth = 7 earths. So as we see, I analyze from he Quran and the number of 7 earths also is mentioned with the 7 heavens. Now since they are 7 planets other than the earth, then it can be the heavens of these 7 planets, or skies. So God might have referred to the 7 heavens as our atmosphere, 7 layers or the 7 planets other than earth. But these are verses that came on the prophet and were left to people to know, in time.

But in either case, both 7 heavens meanings are correct.




But that doesn't explain it. Lets say some humans lived under water some hundreds of thousands years ago, why no phossil of them.

Give me a previous version of humans. If there where many previous versions of humans, how come they are all dead and all what remains is the humans there are in this world?

So you know say we come from Protozoans. what about viruses. what about aliens.

YOU CANNOT CREATE INFORMATION WITHOUT INFORMATION. The genes cannot "INVENT" code. you cannot get another eye when there is only one eye, and then have 2 eyes work with each other smoothly and create an image in the back head of the brain that is 2 dimensional as the brain works.

Let’s say that 2 eyes where made by evolution which is not possible. HOW and HOW did the brain know that 2 eyes can be used to calculate distance?
How did the brain learn that it can make these 2 eyes focus, how does it know, by itself, how to calculate the strength of the muscles of the lenses in the eye so that it can focus?

If you are saying the human came from a creature that had 2 eyes in the beginning. How come this creature came with 2 eyes in the beginning with lenses, the ability to focus and calculate the distance from the focusing?

Evolution cannot program new programs, "Gene Codes"
Evolution does not have a brain to think with
Evolution does not have intelligence
Evolution is not smart
Evolution doesn't think ahead

Therefor => Evolution did not create

Evolution Exists
Evolution improves the "ALREADY EXISTING GENETIC CODES" of creatures and hence we get better breeds.

But EVOLUTION DOES NOT CREATE.

Nezmot,


All I give is scientific evidence, miracles of time, videos containing miracles of time and my own analysis. And you come up with your idea that I'm twisting facts to tell untruths.

Why would I make up truths? What have I to come here and waste my time and tell you evidence from the Quran? Why would I twist facts or lie?

I have not been and will never be a liar, "with God's help". I believe in God and lying is considered the biggest sin in Islam.

From the Hadeeth; a man came to Mohammad and asked him. Can Muslim steel and he would still be considered a muslim? Prophet Mohammad did not want to answer the questions although he knew the exact answer. Because they were would deter people from faith. But the person insisted. The prophet said yes. The person said: "can he commit adultery and still be considered a Muslim?" Same thing, the prophet said yes.

The final question was "can the Muslim lie and still be considered a Muslim?"
The prophet said 3 times:
A Muslim does not lie!
A Muslim does not lie!
A Muslim does not lie!

So I'm saying this to tell you that I don't lie. If I'm mistaken by something it is because I'm mistaken by it, nothing more.

This is not a tangent; it is to show you a miracle. What about waves, sounds of other dolphins and sea animals how can 2 dolphins understand each other 200 miles in the sea?

How can dolphins communicate? It means they have intelligence.
Are they not animals? Yes they are animals
So it means they have intelligence but not evolved.

So if they evolved, why are they not as advanced as humans? How can they have intelligence but no hands to make tools. To evolve, you needs hands to write on paper or wood or stone. they cannot hold anything in their hand, yet dolphins have a sophisticated language.

Have you seen previous versions of non sophisticated dolphins? there aren't.

Tecoyah, this is not boring at all. From your text, there's a proof that the universe came from God's creation in this text. One can use simple scientific methods:

1- elimination: Evolution cannot create, only evolve therefore the only creator left is God.

2- deduction: Since we were given all this evidence of time from the Quran, and all prophets’ point to God. And since aliens did not exist and even if they did exist, how come they did not write a book or refute God's books. So they do not exist. And since evolution cannot find ape like people in fossils, therefore the only possible reason is they were created by God.

So I thank your American scientist as well. I actually am impressed by American scientists because a lot of electronics, scientific etc books and inventions were made by them. I never undermined American scientists or any scientist. Many of my books in university were written by Americans. However Darwin and the people who think evolution alone made the universe have been simply, "mistaken scientists" in my opinion. Evolution evolves already existing genetic information, but it cannot create something from nothing.

Thanks again for this resource.

shakran,
Yes there were pigs like any other place. But that is not the question. How did Mohammad who was poor and worked as a goat herder and could not read or write travel around the world and learn that it is only the pig that has this worm or disease to humans? He couldn't. That’s one miracle of the Quran.

1- if meat gets to 750 it will burn and cannot be eaten
2- God will not risk the death of the people because they know or don't know how to cook.

But God gave humans all animals told them, do not eat the pig. It is a test.
Does this remind you of something?
God gave Adam the paradise, and told him do not eat from this tree. That was the first test.

Please see more. Mountains are not only nails. They have one of the purposes to act like nails to hold the lava. They have other purposes to store water inside. They have many purposes. This was one of the purposes. And the videos were not wrong, I had a big knowledge of the Quran and Islam before a month ago when I saw these videos. And when I saw them, they were the same as the knowledge I gained before.

Sorry, but wrong assumption. How did you know I have not studied other points of view, Hitler, Darwin, the ape which looked like a man in London and then turned after 50 years to be a fake? The people who pray to the devil, the Satanist religion, the gypsies who think that life is for pleasure at every moment only. Sorry again, but you’re mistaken. I always search for new information and I do not believe in an untruth. I believe in God. He gave me scientific evidence of his existence. There are many people that have more suspicion than you and were concerned about what will happen when the remaining 60 years of their life finished. I was one of those and I made researches, studies and mathematic formulas because I couldn't sleep knowing what will happen if I die? VOID!? I wanted to know what will happen and I learned.

WHO ARE YOU? who are you to say that I don't know anything about geology or chemistry? I know more than you and I loved these in education and understood how to work with them and made a few little formulas of my own, and I can recall the chemistry formulas in 20 minutes if I read the book again after 15 years of learning them.

Mountains have one of the purposes as nails. That’s one of the purposes.

Even if supposedly all worms and egg worms die at 160 degrees Did they have thermometers in the old days? Why would a man with a family and kids eat pork that can kill him or his kids. Because, he "thinks" that he boiled it enough to have no worms. Do you think God will tell them in the Quran to buy thermometers and make sure its 160 degrees Fahrenheit? and the use a formula, F= 9/5 *C + 32? And how can he be sure by himself that all worms are dead? Would you take the chance of sleeping with someone if you know they have HIV but you have a condom? What if the condom was not 100% fool proof?

Of course you can fully burn it and then the pig will have all the worms dead. But the pork meat for man is a test like the apple tree of the heaven.

I'm going to be honest here and point out I don't have the time, patience, or inclination to debate this at length with you, but I can't help but respond to this section. It stuck out to me as one of the more obvious examples of misunderstanding of basic scientific facts that brings into question many other things you say as well. Since I was as young as 9 - and maybe even before then but it was at the age of 9 that it was first taught in school - I have known that there are *nine* planets in the solar system:

Mercury
Venus
Earth
Mars
Jupiter
Saturn
Uranus
Neptune
Pluto

I don't need to, but I'll point it out anyway, 9 planets - Earth != 7 planets. Even more significantly, nearly 200 planets have been definitively discovered outside our own solar system, most of them with masses similar to that of Jupiter. Not that it's needed, but such an egregious flaw in your statements calls everything else you say even further into question than it already is.

Secret - I came so very close to making some crass joke about your anus, but I'm glad to see you beat me to the punch.

OK...I think we are about done playing this game Nanotech. I have watched this thread since you reposted it after we removed what was considered Spam. I then followed your ramblings knowing you dont use english as a first language, and was hoping we were dealing with a communications issue, we are not. While it would be inappropriate for me to discuss the knowledge level of a member, as you have done, I can and will take what action in needed while attempting to seem Unbiased.

This thread is now moved to Nonsense, as it would only tarnish Paranoia.

It is not only the pig who has a worm or disease that humans can get if they eat it. It's just that Mohammad apparently did not know about the other animals that can give you disease. And pork will not kill you if you cook it properly, just as beef won't kill you if you cook it properly.

Mohammad's ignorance of the disease potential of other meats does not constitute a biblical miracle.


That's nice. I didn't say you should cook the meat at 750. I said the oven is capable of reaching 750. My car can go 120mph. That doesn't mean I actually drive it that fast.


Then why didn't he ban all meat? Because if you undercook ANY meat you take the risk of getting sick and/or dying.




Easy experiment to prove this wrong. Drive a nail into a glass of water and see how well it does at keeping the water from moving.

Whaaaat? Where did you get this?

And that's exactly my point. If the videos had said something that disagreed with the Quran, you'd have rejected them out of hand as being false. You have many of us telling you things which do not agree with the quran, but which have withstood decades of rigorous scientific analysis, and are rejecting them out of hand because they do not dovetail with what you read in the Quran. You refuse to acknowledge any new knowledge unless it is not, in fact, new at all but just a retelling of something from the Quran.


Mountains are water-holding nails that keep the world still. You have stated this several times. You believe in untruths.

Sorry, but none of the evidence you have cited qualifies as scientific evidence.

Please give us the mathematical formula you used to prove the existance of God and the afterlife.


Again, you said mountains are nails that store water and keep the world still. That's pretty clear evidence right there.

But the problem is, what you know is not true.

You cannot have a hypothesis, and then make up the evidence, and then claim it's all true. This is what separates you from the scientifically minded. If we have a hypothesis, we search for evidence to support or reject it. If you have a hypothesis, you search for evidence only to support it, ignoring any evidence that rejects it. And as you've just indicated, if you can't find that evidence, you dream up a "formula" that supports it.


No, it is not.

And I don't have a thermometer when I cook a pork chop either, but I haven't died yet because I cook it with enough heat for enough time.

Unless you're a vegetarian, you must answer the same question. What if you get undercooked meat which is not pork? You too could die and/or kill your family. Why would you do this? I'll give you a hint: You know how to cook beef to the point where it will not harm you.

No. I think the MEN who wrote the Quran and who would not yet know how to safely cook pork would tell people that God told them not to eat it.

Again apples and oranges. I can't cook my sexual partner (well. . not without going to jail anyway). But if I COULD cook her, it would kill off the HIV and the sex would be safe. . if a bit crispy. . .

I can cook the pork to the point where it is not dangerous.


Maybe I'm just a better cook than you are, but I'm perfectly capable of cooking pork to an internal temperature that's safe without burning it ;)

This thread is now where it belongs, people. It is quite obvious that nanotech will not change his mind no matter how often or well his arguments are refuted, nor is he likely to change anyone else's mind with his "scientific proof." I do get a kick out of his "science" though: mountains as nails. :crazy:

Move along, nothing to see here.

Good call.

I also think it's pretty funny that a thread entitled 'Proof that god created the universe' gets shunted off to nonsense, and yet a thread called 'If you could, would you play racquetball with God?' manages to survive :lol:

But....that doesnt answer the question...I mean.....would you?

Seems to me she would kick anyones ass all over the court.

the only thing i dislike is that the monster "facts o' evolutionary theory" post(s) that tec made will get buried in the ass detritus that this thread is destined to become. is there any way to keep that part around for any future threads on the subject?

Stored here:

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...=1#post2026186

Yes thanks for being honest, the planets was a subject I learned in school around 15 years ago. I have forgot something but everybody forgets. From the amount of subjects and references I'm discussing I think it is reasonable for a human to forget something. It is still better than some who make silly sarcastic jokes and don't offer useful information. Again thank you for reminding me that the planets are 9. After I read them, I realized that I studied them all but that I forgot something. This is good for me because it means that the other supposition of the 7 heavens is the correct meaning, unless there are other 7 heavens near that might be found in the future. There are meanings in the Quran that are still being discovered by modern science.

Should I behave as an adult and not reply to this nonsense or should I behave the same? Well I kind of feel I have be fun too :D

pigglet, I was going to eat your head but then I realized pigs have worms inside.

Game? I am a direct to the point and honest person. The only games I play are video games. :) Someone insults me and I reply, but I'm wrong... Is this just a little biased?

Beef meat cannot be compared to pork meat, health wise.

Let me ask this. If species are created by evolution, why is this worm only in pigs, and how did the prophet know it was only in pigs? What if it was in the amazons or the polar creatures? He couldn't go there to make sure that they don’t have it.

Water doesn't do it, the earth crust is made of many layers. The mountain has a deep root which goes inside. Several mountains doing this function would lessen the movement and shifting of continents



You are imagining. I am always open to new ideas if they are scientifically valid. I read about scientology and part of book online about materialist and the history that Darwin methodology affected the world. Transitional species don't exist. A hypothesis doesn't become a theory until it has been globally agreed by scientists.

Should I repeat the miracles again and all i said again?.. bah

I posted it

I am scientific minded, as do people and teachers whom I knew at school had told me. I have given evidence and references. The videos I referred to gave thoughts on both sides: materialists and creationists. Its titled: "Collapse of Darwinism".

There is a high level of danger in pork meat for average humans of the times before us. With no science, many people would have been dead because they didn't cook pork well. What a purpose to die for... God knew this and pork was created, but it has the purpose like the forbidden tree of heaven.

They are not refuted. They are being argued but not refuted. "Well, you're wrong", there is a lot of evidence of God's existence to see in here and in the videos I referred to.

Another error. The Trichina worm occurs in more than just pigs and humans, pigs just happen to be the most common host.
http://www.medterms.com/script/main/...ticlekey=12513