Alberta Election
 

I did my civic duty and voted.
Have the rest of you TFPers done so?
Remeber vote for the seperation party:)
it works for Quebec...

Voted for separatists.

PC got another landslide...

Yeah, I voted, and no I didn't expect my canidate to win.

It's time for a change.

Voted NDP because Green wasn't going to get any seats. Voting on the congressional ballot just pissed me off because I had to see the words "Progressive Conservative" (an oxymoron if I've ever heard one) and "Alliance" so many times.

As I understand it, the Liberals landed 14 seats. Is that right? Does that give the PC's a minority? Or just a few more checks and balances?
Are the majority of Albertans just tired of Klein, or is he actually a bad leader in a good situation? What's the scoop my Western brothers?

Well, I do not claim to be a westerner, although I do know that Klein still has the majority. Many Albertans are happy with the fact that he's made Alberta completely debt-free... but you can be sure that some are irritated that he made massive cuts to get there.

And come on. The jokes made about him are still gold. Even today. :D

Bad leader, good situation.

Ralphie must be a pretty slick talker he has won the last 10 elections he has been in. 3 as mayor of Cowgary, 3 as an MLA and now 4 as priemier. He must be doing something right.

I like Ralph, or I guess i should say I have no problems with him. That being said, I didn't vote. I was busy yesterday, plus I figured there's no way the Conservatives would loose. In retrospect though, I wish had. I also wish I had convinced more of my fellow students to vote too. I really didn't expect the Liberals to double the nuber of seats they had from last election. Next election I will absolutly vote. Klein won't be running, and I believe it would be disastrous if Liberals gained power here. Anyway, thats just my two cents. Keep the posts coming.

I didn't realize until I hear the results that there was a party to the RIGHT of the PC. Are they related to the old federal Alliance party? What was their platform?

Not really related to the Federal Alliance, more right of them.
there platform? basically family values
Here's there site:
http://www.albertaalliance.com/
Funny though, compared the the rest of Canada, even our liberals and NDP's are pretty far right wing.
Voted for green myself, as the PC (my usual party) Candidate was gonna win by a landslide anyways, and I like some parts of the greens. (the candidate in my riding won with 58% of the vote, next highest had 13%)

And yes I am a PC type of guy, but really, anyone who wants to say Ralph is a bad premier has got to get there heads out of the ground. One of the most popular ever in Alberta, doesn't lose. Had the balls to do what it took to get us debt free, no other province is close to where we are.
Some other provinces could have similar economic situations as us if they wished, but they don't. No short term pain for long term gain for them.
and Daost:
IT's a majority by far.
only in Alberta could a party getting 74% of the seats be not be considered a landslide victory.
Are we tired of him? basically it's now at the point were most feel we need some new blood to come in and shake things up again, to give us the "Next big vision" (the last one being getting rid of the debt)
The liberals will never (well not for a long time) run this province, to few people really like them. the NDP's will probably never get above 8-10 seats again. the Alliance scares enough that they won't either. Only party really left is the Greens, and thats only if they get some really good leadership, and drop some of there kookiness.

Yeah. What he's doing right is rhetoric and propaganda. What I have trouble with is the system whereby the PCs can have a mere 48% of the popular vote, and yet win 74% of the seats in the election. Skewed, anyone?

Metal: all he did was cut funding to departments such as the environmental, health, and educational. That doesn't take a genius. In fact, it takes an idiot. He could have gotten us out of debt by increasing the royalty payments that Alberta gets from companies drilling here, if he had bothered to take his mouth off of the giant cock of the multinational oil corporations for ten seconds.

Well, that's what we get for having an alcoholic highschool dropout as our premier.

I've met King Ralph
 

I've met our King a few times. Always seems tired in person.

Oh, and the best moment, was calling him an idiot for splitting 10's against a dealer 9 at the Palace Casino in Edmonton last year. Dumbass.

Sammy

What rhetoric and Propaganda? This election was dubbbed Kleinfield for a reason. He didn't say much of anything, other than the stupid comment about AISH recipiants. Your right, he did cut funding, and now the fundings high again.
The funding was cut, it's now restored and then some, We have the highest paid doctors and nurses in the country, Alberta also has the highest paid k-12 teachers in Canada as well. What the hell do you want?

mmmm Lets increase royalties by 40% like the NDP's wanted.
Guess what would happen to all those investments in the oil patch.
Why do they win so many seats? It's the same reason why the Liberals do in the federal election.
And making fun of his alchoholism is a really low blow. You make fun of Cretien for his Bell's palsy?
Now the oil royalties are based on different types of wells, and different types of extraction. Now for example, the NDP wanted to raise them by 40% Think about this.
We'll take the oil sands for example, which has royalties of 1% gross or 25% net.
Now the strike price of oil to make the oil sands profitable at 35$ a barrel.
Note, the companies only make money off the oil sands if the price of oil is that high.
If you raise royalties, you raise that strike price, thereby making the oilsands a worse investment.
It's pretty simple really, if your a large multinational company and are looking to invest a couple of billion dollars somewhere, and one of the locations your looking at suddenly raises the cost of doing business there by 10% what are you going to think about that place?
Finally, Remember the NEP? Do you Remember what happened?

Edit:
as an extra
# of people who voted liberal in 2004: 261,471
# of people who voted liberal in 2001: 276,854

The rhetoric and propoganda that he's been running for the past 10 years. The PCs have been saying that they're increasing spending on education, and though they are, it's only by enough to keep up with inflation and population growth. They say it as though they're actually adding extra funding. It's also selectively applied. That's just one example.

They win so many seats because rural areas are disproportionately represented, and farmers as a group are about as socially and politically conscious as granite.

No, but when you come to work drunk all the time it just MIGHT affect your ability to govern. I'm pointing out that he doesn't have the qualities that I would associate with a GOOD leader.

The NEP happened to be implemented at the same time oil prices crashed. We have no idea how Alberta would have been effected solely by the NEP.

What do I want? I want to not have to pay the highest tuition in the country for an education at the lowest-rated university in Canada. I want my profs to be able to focus on their research and teaching rather than finding outside funding sources to prevent their departments from atrophying any more than they already have.

Reliance on multinational corporations for our economy is one of the biggest problems Alberta has. Besides that, oil companies won't have a choice soon, because they'll either get to choose Alberta or one of the countries on America's hit list. Do you think it's more costly to pay a few extra royalties, or to drill in a warzone?

How to stereotype there. :thumbsup:

I voted PC. Not a huge fan of the King himself, he says and does some pretty stupid shit now and then. For myself though, I don't see a much better choice than the PC party. There is a reason that Alberta is one of, if not the best place to live in Canada... and it sure ain't the prarie winters. ;)

Yeah, I know it's an exaggerated stereotype, but there is a certain amount of truth to it. If you spend 12 hours a day doing some sort of manual labour, then go home to your rural abode which may or may not have TV/internet access, you're much less likely (in my opinion) to be well-informed on "outside" matters than someone like me, a student who does an absolute maximum of 8 hours of work per day, where much of that 8 hours is linked with social and political issues. So yes, granite. ;)

You remind me of one of the people in the current Federal Government who told a bunch of farmers they werne't smart enough to run a grain car system.
You realize running a farm now is the same as running a business. Honestly, some of these farms are multi million dollar corporations. You think someone who is stupuid andknows nothing of the outside world could run one of these?
A lot of the newer farmers (the young ones) have degrees now in Agriculture, those are 4 year degree's. Have you seen new farm equipment? Most farmers actualy do have the internet, and a large number of them have a satellite system as well. (there snot much to do in the middle of the winter on a lot of farms)
Honestly. I'm guessing your in Calgary, since you mentioned the University, (it's second lowest by the way, and yes it is a shame, but U of A is rated highly..)
Trust me, lot's of people are ill informed about the world at large, and modern society, like the gentleman who wrote a letter to the editor at FFWD a few weeks ago suggesting that we shut down all imports that we could possibly make ourselves. He thought that this would solve all of our problems.
And how are we disproportionatly represented by farming ridings? Ridings have a basic standard amount of people in them, 30k-40k people.

I don't know exactly, but somehow 48% of the popular vote turned into over 70% of the seats in Alberta for the PCs, and I know Klein gets most of his support from certain areas of Calgary (shameful) and rural communities. And yes, there are many uninformed or misinformed urbanites as well, but I felt the urge to make a scathing analogy, and farmers came to mind. My uncle, who deals with farmers in a large way, has partially enforced and increased my pseudo-hatred of farmers. Anyways, I realise that there are well-informed farmers, and there are ignorant city dwellers. I just felt like picking on farmers.

I tried to resist
 

I've been reading this thread, and I find it sadly amusing that there is so much disatisfaction with the PC government, yet they still manage to get 63 or so seats with almost no campiagning and certaintly no paltform. The saddest thing of is the bad thinking that goes into voting in this province, and a few people have mentioned it here either because they did it, or noticed it (I will not mention names).

Specifically, what I am talking about, is blindly voting for a candidate because he is the likely winner. How many people voted for their PC candidate without even asking him/her what they stood for, or had planned, or accomplished in the past 4 years? Geez.

If you asked your PC MLA what he stood for, and you liked the answer, or if you genuinely think that they are good government, then vote that way. If you have doubts, vote for someone else.

Christ, it's so depressing to see people sleep walk into and out of the polling stations, many of them knowing that this government will do some really bad things this term, liek privatize our health care, and with morons like Oberg, Mar, and Cenaiko in the new cabinet, expect a new low in dicision-maing stupidity this term.

what a shame.

Pierre

ps. yes I voted and no, it was not for the PC candidate. "Nuff said...

I certainly hope you're not talking about me here. I certainly had my eyes wide open when I walked into vote. While I may not agree 100% with everything on their platform, they are certainly the closest match and the party who I think will be the overall best for Alberta.

You obviously don't think so, and that's great. Doesn't mean you're right and I'm wrong, doesn't mean you were more informed than anyone else. It means we see things differently.

Realize this:
People think everyone who disagree's with there standpoint is an idiot.
It's simple, and what basically all arguments stem from.
And the reason they got that many seats is because the person who gets the most number of votes in a riding gets the seat, and we have more than a two party system, it's really quite simple, not sure why you haven't figured it out yet.
And why does Calgary vote PC? simple
white collar +rural folk vote conservitive.
Blue collar vote Liberal.
Edmonton is more blue collar than Calgary. There you go.
(and if farmers are idiots, so are blue collar workers right? who wants to sit there welding for 8 hours a day and end up hurting your back by the time your 40, so you can't work any more)

are you talking to me? seriously? wow.

First of all. I never claimed, and I certainly don't think those who disagree with my standpoint are idiots. If so, I'd be married to one and last time I checked they didn't give idiots Medical degrees so I guess that rules that out.

I know why the PC's got so many seats, thanks. I am also aware that there are more than two partys. Not sure why you would suggest I haven't got that figured out yet.

You know... I just went back through the thread and I can't see how you could seriously be directing those comments at me. Can't see it, but whatever.

Obviously you either didn't read my last post, or have decided to take the less mature route. Either way, there's obviously no point in talking to you.

sherpa, had the wrong person in quotes, sorry.
This was obviously directed at suave.
I did indeed read your last post, describing your psuedo hatred of farmers, and the fact that most Calgarians should be ashamed of there political leanings.

Yes, they should. You should be ashamed of yours. BAD METALGEEK. And what does my hatred of farmers have to do with logic? Very little. It's also only pseudo-hatred, which isn't real hatred. And yes, I find it almost impossible to back down from an argument, even if I say that I'm going to. I'm a stubborn ass, and there's nothing you can do about it.

We have more in common than we realize;)

Then it's agreed. Pistols at dawn. Eleventeen paces, first one to die loses.

Dawn's to early, how about 11ish?

Why you son of a... 10:30! And that's as late as I go.

If you folk out there in in Alberta don't want Klein, can you point him in the direction of Ontario. Anything would be an upgrade from what we have.

Careful what you wish for...

One greasy Klein sandwich coming up, with a side of rum sauce. Want some neo-liberal pro-business rhtoric with that? How about a can of "shut the fuck up you worthless cripple" to quench your thirrst? Regardless of your current problems (rememberm you did have Rae once!), you DO NOT want Klein.

That's just me though. Maybe I should just shoot shovel and shut-up, but then someone would be asking where Klein went, even if it's only Colleen.

Pierre

It took me some time to get over Rae, but since you brought him up my twitch has returned. Let's see, let's show absolutely no fiscal prudency. Guess what then?

Mike Harris' Pc's came in, fixed it, created a competitive economic base and then when dummy Ernie Eves takes over Sars, Walkerton, blackout,..and his personality equivalent of a runny nose fuck things up. Hey this is the age of bullshit,..image?,...that's like polishing a turd.

So as the Carter family sung years ago," Will The Circle Be Unbroken," and now the Liberals will run up the costs just to be voted out in time for someone else to clean up after them. Where's that confounded bridge?

Nope, SherpaHigh, you have it wrong. If you did the research, and you like your PC candidate and/or you think that the PCs are the best government, and then you voted that way, bravo. I will certaintly disgree with you on that , but not on making a dicision based on the proper foundation.

You may have misunderstood my position in the first place. All I am really hoping for is that somewhere in this democratic process, the concept of "wasted votes" and "winners and losers" needs to be thrown away. As voters we should try to challenge ourselves, our candidates, and the system by thinking outside the box. Even if the PCs have done a good job, does that mean they are necessarily the best choice. No, absolutely not.

So, I applaud you for voting, and even for questioning me, and for having the nads to say something to me when you thought you were being referred to in a way you don't like. But politics is not about agreement, never was, it is aout debate, and I hope that this debate, unlike the mean-sprirted crap that goes on in the Legistlature, can remain civil and respectful, which is all I ever tried to say.

I apolpgize if I came across otherwise, but I feel quite strongly about politics, and I speak up about it when anyone will listen.

Peace.

Pierre

I agree with you, there's very little agreeing going on when it comes to politics. I only came out against your statement because of how it sounded to me at the time. It sounded to me like you were insinuating that some people who voted, specifically for the PC, did so blindly without knowing the facts. It sounded like you disagreed with voting for a party even if you didn't agree with them 100%.

I probably read into it wrong, sorry for that if I did.

I agree with you, on most everything else, though obviously not your party choice. ;) Debates about politics, hell debates about anything, would prove to be a lot more effective if the people involved stopped to actually listen and think about the opposite views.

If people would just realize that we as the voters all have the same intrests in mind, what's best for Alberta (or the country, or whatever the vote is about) perhaps there could be more constructive progress made in politics. We don't all agree on what's best and what the best ways are to achive the desired results, but that's what's great about democracy.

Absolutely correct! Talking without listening is the same as screaming in an emtpy room, and accomplishes about the same thing. dissenting opinions are the key ingredient when democracies work (do they?), and it's the only way that we can move ahead.

That is one of the reasons why I do not like the PCs, they do not listen, but I don't want to open that can of worms. All I want to say is that I truly appreciate the concept of "agreeing to disagree" and the eloquent way you stated it was much appreciated.

Glad to have you as part of the Albreta Democratic system, and maybe we can disagree on even more stuff in the future. :) :)

Peace,

Pierre