The Matrix Reloaded: Who's seen it and what did you think?
 

If at all possible please give a spoiler free review since I won't be seeing it until this weekend. Thanks.

Does it really matter dude? I mean you're seeing it either way this weekend, no? :)

I wont be seeing it for another...22 odd hours. :(

Just got home from the 10:00 showing.

Personal thoughts... well.... It seemed more complicated then the first. Perhaps in a bad way, but theres enough action that if you're stupid and not a fan of plot you will still like it. Lots of stuff for programmers and comp security people to enjoy. More emphasis on how all the data works. The fighting is amazing.... blows the other movie away.

Oh and I'm sure you've seen the trailer scenes of the freeway-chase right? Sit close enough to the screen and that will make you sick to your stomach... its just SO fast. Overall, good movie although it is obviously unfinished since they have the next movie comming out. The ending kinda reminds me of the feeling you got when you saw the end of Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring. They leave you waiting for the next episode but I'm going to be busy with the video game cause I need more matrix :)

I feel the same way. I can't wait until I get the game tomorrow.
Anyway, overall, I enjoyed it. It wasn't without it's problems, of course, but it was still fun. I heard so many people sighing or complaining anytime someone on screen spoke for more than a few lines....HEAVAN FORBID the film actually have some story to it! (jerks!) These peopel obviously just came for the visuals. which were great. If you're a fan of the first film's story or overal mythology, I don't think you'll be disapointed.

AND STAY AFTER THE CREDITS!!! A PREVIEW FOR "REVOLUTIONS" FOLLOWS!!!

We left before the preview... when I see it again this weekend I'll stay and watch them. Or I'm sure I could just find the Revolutions preview on kazaa

How long was it? I tried to go to one of the 3 10pm showings, but they were all sold out by the time I got there?

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I just got back from the 10:00 showing as well.

I can say that it is one of the most confusing movies I've ever seen, and I've seen a lot. The Wachowski Brothers go totally overboard with this one, throwing WAY too complicated of a plot onto viewers.

Now that I've said that, onto the other parts of the movie: the action. Holy shit. I've never seen anything rival this in a production of entertainment. Never. Not even in a videogame. If you've seen the trailers, then you've seen the main aspects of each action sequence, even though there is one more part of the highway scene that was not shown in the trailers....DAMN.

The scene that is shown in the trailers when everyone in Zion is dancing and raving...well, it just went on too long. I shit you not; that dance scene went on for about 10 minutes at least, with interludes of Trinity and Neo having sex. That dragged on too much, but didn't really affect the overall movie too badly.

When giving your thoughts on a good movie, the bad parts always stand out. That's right, The Matrix: Reloaded is a VERY good movie. Technically, I'd say it was better than the first one. I have to tell about the bad parts because when something is so good, the flaws stand out big time. The Burly Brawl Scene (when the 100 Agent Smiths fight Neo) was actually better than shown in the trailers. It's also much longer than shown in the trailers.

Overall, I can honestly say that watching the Matrix: Reloaded was an amazing experience. The gaps in between the action were WAY too long sometimes (one gap in the beginning was a full hour of non-action, with the hour containing extremely confusing plot elements), but the action scenes were definitely rewarding. I'll probably have to see Reloaded at least 5 times to understand what the movie was about. Yes, the plot is that complicated.

In conclusion, the Matrix Reloaded was just as good as I expected, but was 100% totally different than what the trailers and tv spots portrayed it to be. Trust me, you will be surprised at how different Reloaded is from the first Matrix. They seem like completely different storylines with the same characters at points. When going in to the movie, be prepared for the best action sequences ever seen in a movie, one of the most confusing plots in a movie (it puts Fight Club and the first Matrix to shame), and one of the most exhilarating experiences you'll witness. The highway scene is the best car chase sequence of all time, end of story.

If I had to review it, I would give it about a 9 out of 10. The 1 point off is simply because the audience that will only see it once will never know what the movie is about because of the plot. The talking scenes that drag on and the overwhelming plot hinder Reloaded, but just encourage you to see the movie more than once. Yes, that's good. You'll definitely want to see it more than once -- again for the action scenes, and again to understand what the movie was about. The Wachowski Brothers are my heroes.

-Lasereth

AMAZING!!! :D I loved it! :D

This movie blew me away. I would say that it was a bit confusing but that made me like it even more. I believe there should be elements of stories that you need to think about after the movie to keep you more interested in it. The thing that makes me mad is reviewers saying its not good that the movie was complicated and also they seem to complain about how it has a cliffhanger ending...its supposed to because its only half a movie. Theres no way they would make a 5 hour movie like this. The only way to do it was make two movies. I give 9 out of 10

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I loved the ending! The Bum-Bum-Buuuuuum as they show Bane was the icing on the cake of a great movie. While the plot could be described as confusing I found it enthralling. The whole concept of whether or not a choice is actually a choice or rather a result of a cause was very interesting. I loved Merovingian, especially his little slice of cake, as a student of the Culinary Arts, I would LOOOVE to get my hands on that recipe. Overall I would give this a 10 I didn't have a problem following the plot but I can definitely understand if some do.

Re: The Matrix Reloaded: Who's seen it and what did you think?
 

Only took 9 posts for someone to post a spoiler in this thread....I think that's a TFP record ;)

Well, now that that's done....




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Alright. I'll bite. I'll usher in the big discussion. Is the architect telling the truth at the end? Or is it the other possibility...is Zion and the "real" world simply another Matrix? What are your thoughts on this? Personally, I'm going with it being another Matrix. A couple reasons: 1) How can Agent Smith survive in the "real" world? He's a program. Reprogramming himself into a human program is one thing - binding himself to a human brain is quite another...or maybe not *shrug*. 2) How does the Oracle know about the dreams Neo is having in the "real" world? 3) How did Neo stop the Sentinals at the end? This is what finalized my opinion. Please precede any discussion of this with some sort of VERY obvious spoiler tag.

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I haev to say, those are good points... I honestly don't see anything wrong with Smith being able to survive in the real world; when an agent takes someone over, it seems they pretty much destroy that person because the mind gets fucked. So it would seem possible that if you unplugged that person correctly, the agent would be able to survive as just a mind. *shrug* just my two cents. As for the oracle.... that's a bit more damning, I have no good reason for that. Other than intelligence given to her by someone else, perhaps? Or maybe since Neo's consciouness is in the Matrix, she can acess his thoughts, making her more programlike? Dunno. anyway, the last of your points is the most important, because if Neo has powers in the real world, I'm going to lose all respect for this series. From the beginning, they've made it very clear that the shit that flies in the matrix cannot happen in the real world because there are no such things as magic or "special powers". I dunno, the idea of Neo having powers in the real world seems like a shitty sci-fi cop-out.

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I agree with the Neo having powers thing. That would be really stupid. A couple of my friends mentioned that maybe the hovercraft that saved them shot a EMP beam at the sentinels right when Neo put his hand up, and that's why they disabled like that. The EMP beam may have hit Neo and knocked him unconscious.

Another theory I've heard is that the real world, or Zion, is another Matrix in itself. None of the humans have awoken yet, but the ones that begin to rebel are unplugged from the outer layer Matrix, and put into the inner Matrix, which is Zion. Either way, they're still all connected to the battery machines. If Zion is a Matrix within a Matrix, then some serious shit is gonna go down. I really want to see what the hell happened. Neo did save Trinity and bring her back to life, presenting the whole Messiah imagery like Jesus. I sure as hell hope they don't make Neo a Christ figure that can do stuff in real life and in the Matrix. Either way, Reloaded was awesome, and I really want to see it again.

-Lasereth

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Thought about it just being another matrix, and it seems like quite a likely plot twist/ending to me. The best point made here is probably #2 by Secret . She can either be a rouge program that's travelled through (I guess this is right) two matrices (hehe), or she could just be what she said in this movie, that she's just doing the job that she was designed to do - fortell the future (all she really did was allude to this, but hey, I'm taking a bit of license).
I'm thinking Agent Smith is basically the same as he always was, except that now he isn't controlled by whatever higher power in the machines is fueling this. Seems to me he's doing the same stuff he was the first time around, except that now he can alter people's minds so that they mentally become him. On this, though, what happens to these clones? Should we expect in the third one to see an army of a billion of them walking the earth in search of Neo (similar to The Langoliers)? Just a thought, since all we see them do is walk out after fight scenes.
As for Neo's powers to stop the sentinels, I have to hope that he's in another matrix, otherwise, like OMFUG said, this would be a really sad cop-out.

I was thinking a good ending would be for the movie to just suddenly twink out to a white dot on a tv screen, and to have someone come by and turn it off. Just trying to think of something highly unlikely, since I've found that's really the only way to predict what's going to happen in this movie series (i.e. when Merovingian's wife moves to the two open doors to shut them, I thought, "What's the coolest thing they could do with this? Have them lead somewhere else," and they did. I give myself no credit here, however, just a lucky guess).

OK, one more point before I give my fingers a rest, what exactly was The Architect talking about with the last set of choices that Neo has to make? I completely understand the decision that they've set in front of him, but why would they do that to begin with? Why give the humans however many people he said and give them a chance to rebuild? Maybe that would give the machines purpose, I don't know. That didn't make much sense to me, but I guess the point is moot now anyway, seeing as how he didn't take that one.

After all this, I'm thinking the most probable story line would be that it's all another matrix. That's the only concievable way that Neo could sense anything different when he's not plugged in.

That's all I've got. Whew.

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Ok, first of all, ditto on the Matrix in a Matrix.
Second, there was a lot presented to take in on just one sitting of the movie (especially the scene with the Architect), so my interpretation will most likely change as I see the movie again…and again.

Here is my attempt at this one, assuming matrices: According to the Architect, Zion has been rebuilt 6 times (or 5, I don't remember, I also don’t remember if the Matrix was also reset each time). I think at some time there existed only one matrix and as long as everything works the way it supposed to, the humans don't know what is going on. Well, somewhere along the line "The One" realizes something is wrong, and what he does at this point, I don't really know. But the machines realize his awareness, and I'm guessing that his awareness spreads to other humans. At this point or somewhere along first, second or third resets, the machines realize that their plan isn't going to work. Their inability to mimic "the lack of perfection in the human world" is going to be their downfall, so they create a second Matrix layered below the first and allow those humans who find something wrong with "The Original Matrix" to wake up. Only they aren't waking up to the real world, they are waking up to the "The Second Matrix."

Ok, bear with me now, I might be grasping at straws here.

So, given enough time, humans start to realize the inconsistencies in the First Matrix, and are allowed to awake into the Second Matrix. Perhaps, given enough time existing in the Second Matrix, ("Wait, something’s different" -Neo) humans will become conscious of the Second Matrix. The machines again realize this, but instead of creating a Third Matrix, they create the Oracle, whose purpose is to guide The One to the Architect. If there is a Second Matrix, everything we have seen the first movie and second movie that takes place outside of “The Matrix” is actually predetermined. (Thus emphasizing the concept of a choice) If this is the case, then the dreams that Neo is having could actually be images the machines want him to see in order to lead him to the “choice” with the Architect. The Oracle knows everything because it’s her purpose to know everything, like she states. So to answer the question as to “why,” The reason is: If the Second Matrix is not reset, The One will become aware of it too. The interesting thing is, Neo for the first time in 6 other Neos (presumably) picks a different path, or at least we are lead to believe that he always picked the other door in the past, which would imply that there are choices…and the machines don’t control everything. Perhaps the machines are not capably of resetting The One’s mind completely, and 6 awakenings has lead his consciousness in a different direction, one that the machines did not see with the previous Neos.

I could ramble on and on, but I think I will stop for now. The one thing I have not developed a theory about yet, relating it to the theory of matrices, is what was Merovengian’s purpose? Has it been served? With the depths of this movie, I can’t imagine his character was added to just present the audience with an incite into “programs,” a means to get to the Key Maker, and a lead in to a very cool action sequence…

Anyway, things to ponder until I see the movie again…and yes, I think this movie was more than worth wait!

Yeah... it was AMAZING... and the more I think about it after I have seen it makes me love it even more... Being an action junkie and a plot lover, this movie made it good... I disagree that it was difficult to understand... I took my GF who has a tough time understanding movies and she grabbed onto it pretty quick... AS i've told my friends, I'm afraid that reviewers will review it as a stand-alone movie, which it isn't. It is a second in a 3 part story (this one takes place only a little after the first one and the third just continues where 2 left off). It's not like DIE HARD or INDY where each story is separate and complete... it's like LOTR in that it may seem like it is missing something here and there ONLY because we haven't seen it come to fruition yet! Anyway, GO SEE IT THIS WEEKEND!

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Ok, one question that I don't think has been asked yet...

Did I miss something??? What happened to Tank?? I am going to have to watch the first movie again, but he is supposed to still be alive, right???

Can someone field this one???

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I think the layer above the second matrix is being controlled by humans and Merovengian is one of them. Maybe they have trully escaped the matrix or are a ruling class and they keep all of the "lesser" people locked in the matrix as a playground for themselves. Remember his wife states that he was once like Neo so that is what got me thinking along these lines.

The guy playing Tank was replaced by the dude from OZ

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That's an interesting concept. If he were a human, that would explain his personality/actions...and I would also think he will appear in the 3 movie.

**I LIKE this theory. Man, I wish you were sitting next to me in the theatre to explain the Matrix Reloaded. I was a bit lost there. Reading your post helped to clarify or theorize on many important points in the movie.

**Re: Someone asked about Tank. I believe the new guy is married to Tank & Dozer's sister. So he's Tank's brother-in-law.

**Also, I think Agent Smith is now a "VIRUS" because as he said himself, he is no longer part of the "program". And the things that he does (take over people, even taking over other Agents) is characteristic of Viruses. This also leads to how he is able to remain "alive" outside the Matrix in Zion. But as someone had mentioned, I too, think "Zion" is another Matrix, in which case, Agent Smith (as the Virus) can survive in the host body and then be activated (like a Trojan Virus) later on when they attempt to revive the "only survivor."

matrix revolutions trailer for those that missed it in the theaters:

http://10mbit.com/suprnova/The%20Mat...railer.torrent

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Yeah, that happened . . . . . . and the crew from the first movie caught him stealing stuff (props, etc.), and they kicked him off the rest of the movies. Don't quite remember where I heard that, but yeah, that's why he's not back.

OMG..thats all I have to say

Am I doing something worng?? Why is this link not working for me? All I get is a ".torrent" file....what do I do with it?

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I don't think Zion has to be a second matrix for the story to work, though that is an appropriately brain-warping idea.

Zion is a pressure-valve for the building inconsistencies in the programming of The Matrix. That 1% that don't accept the program escape and build until there's a community in Zion, and eventually, along comes The (well... A) One, whose job is to zero out the accumulated inconsistencies and reset Zion to its starting point. It's been 100 years since the sixth Zion reset. The myth of The One as a savior was planted in each new batch of Zion settlers in order to have them continue collecting those who don't accept the program. Morpheus turns out to be just another Machine dupe.

I'm also puzzled about the choice thing. Why should The One be given any choice in the matter at all? Why does the architect offer two doors? Except to allow the Brothers to explore a "love is the choice" theme? Thoughts on that?

Spoiler, but if you're this thick in, you've read the others.
I'm apparently squarely in the minority, but I thought it was a steaming pile. So disappointing. Poor writing, both plot and dialogue wise, careened wildly from fight scene to fight scene with incomprehensible babble in between. I found nothing surprising from beginning to end, with the exception that the Oracle was a program and the prophecy was nothing more than a regressive control system. The Merovengian was so god damned irritating I begged God to end his scene. His twins were sort of neat, but if they really could phase whenever they pleased, why didn't they phase before the car exploded? I refuse to believe that Morpheus, who has demonstrated his ineptitude against agents time and again, was able to defeat the pair. I wanted to like it, had even convinced myself that it was not a total loss, but then the ending came. God, Neo uses his powers outside the matrix, and then the "surprise" of Bane being the survivor; what, did the sentinels just move aside as the Hammer came through to pick him up? Ugh, I'm sick. The best I can say about that movie is it didn't give me cancer. That I know of.

I DO see your point, there are definitely some criticism that could be made about the movie.

Like the one you pointed out, how is it that Morpheus and Trinity are suddenly able stand up against the agants all of the sudden??

And how about at least an explanation in some sort conversation that would explain the sudden disappearance of Tank. (Link IS Tank's brother-in-law, and Tank's replacement). What actually happened to the Tank character, there needed to be at least some explanation.

...and what was up with the fake ass CG?? There were countless times that the CG was just not right. You can really pick out the "cartoonish" parts.

But I would have to disagree about the movie being "a steaming pile". Even with it's inconsistancy that are not yet explained, the movie was definitely thought provoking and entertaining....WOOO HOOO can't wait for the next one....BRING IT ON!!!

I reserve the right to pass jugement on this movie after i have seen the 3rd Matrix movie.

I shall post my thought around Nov 03.

Tank's dead. The sister says she's lost two brothers to the Nebuchadnezzar.

Matrix Reload - This sucks...
 

I went to New Jersey to a friends house and then go see the Matrix and it got sold out!! We showed up at 9:45pm to see a 10:15pm showing and it was sold out as well as 2 more showings at 10:40pm!! Two 10:40pm shows for a 2.5 hour movie on a Thursday night sold out! This is madness! What a let down. :(

I'm dying to see it. Maybe I'll try and make it to a matinee on Sunday morning.

Glad

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As far as Neo using his powers "outside" the Matrix - that's the whole point we're getting at. I don't think he WAS outside the Matrix at all.

As far as Bane goes, anyone who was paying attention shouldn't be surprised and shouldn't see it as an inconsistancy that he was the only survivor. He is not Bane. He is Agent Smith.

Just got home from seeing it. Different from the first one which is good but I wasn't left with the same emotional high that I had at the end of the original. Definitely glad that Revolutions will be coming out later this year.

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Something seems weird about the architect of the Matrix. I think he's lying about everything to discourage Neo from trying. You can tell he's lying because (I think) he said that Trinity would die. Technically she did die, but I don't think he counted on her coming back to life.

I can only wonder how many mistakes were made. We'll never know until Revolutions.

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Secret , I don't know why I never thought that Bane is Agent Smith, but after hearing it, that makes perfect sense. This next movie should prove to be quite interesting . . .

Oh, and did anyone else think that this ending and the ending to the 2nd LotR movie were quite similar? In this, Neo is sitting right next to what possibly (though it's highly, highly unlikely) could be his killer. At the end of The Two Towers, Smeagol (sp?) looks to be leading them to someone who could (though again it's highly, highly unlikely) kill them. I doubt that this was planned, but, nonetheless, it's a weird parallel.

That's all I got.

Saw it tonite with some friends.

Out of four guys, I really liked it, one guy sorta liked it and the other two didn't.

The major complaint was it was too intellectual in places, too 'Zen'. While I like that sort of thought provoking film, I can see their point. Most people will go for the kick 'em action, but as I said, I liked the mix.

Of course there was great effects, but even though I expected it, I hated the cliff hanger ending. But at least it won't be like "Empire Strikes Back" where I had to wait 3 years to see Han freed from the carbonite.

I'm already looking forward to November.

Saw it tonight.. wow.

I understand the complaints about the 'Zen-ness' of the movie, but I actually liked that aspect. And as we sat there waiting for the "Revolutions" trailer, we came to the same conculsion: There is obviously a matrix within the matrix, sort of like a buffer to catch data errors that has to be cleared every once in a while.

That is the only thing that explains Neo's experience at the end with the sentinals and Agent Smith's new ability to some how infect humans and step outside the matrix. The one guy is obviously Smith underneath.

I also understand why this movie is more complicated. It is like the differences between Star Wars and Empire. Star Wars was a nice little compact movie that stood on it's own, with a beginning and definite end. With Empire, the story suddenly started to get very complicated.

Here we have the same deal. While the Matrix left question at the end (specifically, what is the outcome of this battle), it still wrapped things nicely, with Neo accepting that he is the One and defeating his arch enemy, Agent Smith.

Now things are complicated again. I think that Reloaded will be one of those movies that you have to watch a couple of times to really appreciate the intricacies.

As to being TOO complicated, meh and double meh. People always say that about master pieces. They said Lord of the Rings (the book) was way to intellectual and complex. They even said that Harry Potter was too complex for kids. I personally think that The Matrix Trilogy will become one of the great Sci-Fi series from our time, watched for generations to come.

Yeah, November can't get here soon enough.

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Aight, ive seen the movie, and heres my take on the whole thing.

I think that there is one Super-Matrix that has two subsections, refered to as the Matrix and the Zion worlds. Heres my reasons:

1) If, as the architect said, there is a 99% acceptance rate, what that means is that there is a 1% failure rate. The failures are sent to the Zion world.

Now, this makes the scene in the inital matrix where Neo "wakes up" to the Zion world make perfect sense. Think about it... if i remember correctly, Neo woke up in fluid, struggled for a bit, then a machine came over, and lasered his restraints out and let him drop into a waste pool. If you had a potential enemy right in front of you, why would you unshackle it and let it drop into a convieniently rescuable place, as opposed to say... killing it?

2) The oracle knew about Neo's trouble with sleeping. This could be prior experience with other "ones" et al, but still...

3) The last scene, where something felt different. Neo can suddenly stop the squid thingies. Assuming real life physics, this is impossible. The only real possible explanation is that the Zion world and the Matrix are both parts of a Super-Matrix.

4) Finally, and the most important one, the whole resurrection thing. In the original, right after Agent Smith kills Neo in the Matrix world, Trinity whispers into Neos ear that he is the one in the Zion world, and that she loves him, which causes Neo to wake up. At that time, he is dead, by that i mean, is heart isnt functioning. Its impossible for the brain to process anything when the heart isnt pumping blood, so there is no way that that he could have heard that in the Zion world, and react to it in the Matrix world, unless they were part of the same system. (Also, your not meant to be able to hear/see/feel anything in the Zion world if your mind is in the Matrix world...)

Additionally, the whole resurrection thang in the Reloaded too. Neo starts pumping Trinities heart in the Matrix world, who is "dead" in the Zion world, which causes her heart to start beating once again in both worlds, once again, something impossible if the Zion world was a real one, and not a coded one. (... her consciousness is dead, how the hell can she register anything?)

Also, the whole bleeding-in-the-zion-world-while-in-the-matrix thing. If only thier consciousness is in the Matrix world, it would be virtually impossible for them to cough up blood in the Zion world. Think about it.. its not easy TO cough up blood with no external stimuli. The brain would have to cause a rupture in a vein somewhere, somehow, and to the best of my knowledge, this is impossible.

Hope that all made sense, if it didnt, drop me a line and i'll re-write it. There are a few other points that i'd like to bring up:

the Merovengian. Er, as someone else said, he seemed to be too developed to be just a factor in finding the key and setting up a fight scene. Lets see... he hates the Oracle, he has imprisioned the Key-Maker (so obviously he has to know about the key maker, and what it is that he does) frequently alludes to him facing off against other "ones" and them being tougher (which means that he has been around for at least 300 years) But i think he's been around for a LOT longer than that. Why? he's saved people from an earlier matrix. The Architect says 6 other ones had come to him before Neo, and before this one, many attempts had been made at creating a Matrix. This means that the Merovengian is at least 700 years old in the Matrix.

Couple this with his ability to program in the matrix (i.e. the cake with the woman), plus his ability of saving people from older matricies and we have someone who is very old, and powerful. So it will be interesting to see what he develops into in Revolutions.


Secondly, the comment the oracle makes -- "your making a believer out of me" to Neo. hmm. Shes the driving force behind the prophecy, yet she doesnt believe in it? seems a bit odd, doesnt it?

Ratbastid: the whole choice thing with the architect seems to re-iterate the recurrent theme in the movie. I don't know why there is a choice, but ill be going to see it again soon, so ill let you know if i get any better ideas next time :)


And as for a review i thought the movie was pretty good, but it could have been edited a bit more to make it flow better, and some of the CG was downright shoddy, especially in today's day and age.

Y'all are being pretty darned literal about this "knocking down the squiddies" thing.

Homie can fly. He's hooked up with machines on a deep, deep level. He's visited their core mainframe, interacted with the architect of the Matrix, and left some of his code there. It's beyond the physics that you and I know about here trapped in The Matrix (he he), but cut the guy some slack! He's <i>The One</i>, for crying out loud! Nobody in the movie knows what happened either--including Neo. Big mystery thing. That's what "the middle film of the trilogy" is all about.

I also don't get (yet) how this guy Bane is really Smith. Who said that? Did you infer that from Neo's dream about the Agent leaving the Matrix through a phone? I just got that he was a traitor guy who wanted to give Zion up for whatever personal deal he could work out, just like Cypher in the first movie.

Ratbastid, watch the movie again. This was not part of the dream that Neo was having. Remember the part at the beginning where the two guys were trying to leave the Matrix, and one hands the other an envelope, and says that "this is all that matters"? Well, after the one guy goes through the phone, anget Smith comes in and takes over the remaining guy...then he gets sucked throught the phone. In essence that is is how agent Smith took over Bane's body. Does this make sense?

I saw this last night and have to agree with Kadath. It sucked. Where the hell was the editor on this movie. Did he fall asleep during the first half hour of the movie (like I almost did). What was the point of the 15 god damn minutes of sex scene (not to diss Carrie at all but I really would appreciate it if Keanu kept his cloths on at all times)/dancing tribal orgy. 2 minutes max is how long that scene should have lasted. And what the hell was up with Morph's speech. "Let them hear you", I thought the point of Zion was that the location was secret. You could have left that crap out as well as the utterly pointless chocolate cake aphrodesiac program. I think the cake should have killed her. I would have liked the character much better if he was an evil bastard and not just a sex starved renegade bit of poorly wrtten code. I spent most of the movie just wanting the characters to shut up because every thing they sad came out like they didn't understand what the hell they were saying and the other part going thinking "yeah, it's a cool fight scene, but if he can just fly away, why is he bothering."

Many people are going to say, "you just didn't get it." So let me just address that. Yes, I got it, I just didn't think it truly followed the thought process of the first one and the logic/theologic points they were trying to make were unconvincing and often times seemed flawed to me. I would have liked more rational for the social structure of Zion - or better yet don't show it at all (did they really need any of the scenes that took place there). I wanted character development of some kind. I wanted more of the twins even though they looked like Milli Vinilli dipped in flour(some back story, where these all just old agent programs or is there an occational "bug" that causes a program to go all homicidal - a great way to tie in the idea of serial killers, and other evil people as they exist in the Matrix, especially since the system knew it needed to create a non-utopia). I also felt that hey really didn't do a great job of timing. I want the militaristic characteristics of Trinity back, and I didn't believe the troubled chosen one act of Neo's one bit (and where the hell did they get grapes for crying out loud). And Tank died, yeah I got that, but how? Was there another battle? How long after the first movie is this one supposed to be? OK, I'm done, go ahead and rip into me. I'm just going to sit here in my disappointment and try to look forward to some sort of salvation in the third movie.

SPOILERS (but who cares at this point?)







While I liked the plot twists and "middle-of-the-trilogy" feel Reloaded had, I was generally disappointed by the movie as a whole. Matrix, IMHO, was flawless. Of course, I might simply feel this way because the first flick was a totally new concept and had a nicely wrapped up ending, as was mentioned before, but some elements of Reloaded really detracted from my enjoyment:

1- The crappy "video-game" feel caused by excessive use of CGI: OK, so Neo tangles a shitload of Smith agents; obviously, we need some computer back-up here, but this was ridiculous to the point of being offensive. I really enjoyed the live-action fight scenes, with the light CGI touches for sudden movements and blocks and whatnot, but was an ENTIRELY computer-generated sequence really necessary? If so, couldn't they have made it better? If I were playing a game, I'd be sprating my shorts if it had graphics like that. However, this is a movie, so I expected much higher quality. Perhaps it would have been better if they kept the CGI-only stuff exclusively on the long distance angles, like the bird's eye view when Neo was knocking agents around with the lamp post.

2- 360 sequences: OK, we were all blown away when Neo dodged the bullets in Matrix while we got a nice slow-mo view at all angles in 1 fluid motion. However, in Revolutions, quite a few scenes used that technique, which cheapened it immensly. There is such a thing as "too much of a good thing."

3- Stereotypes: When I first heard Merovengian speak, I knew I was in for the pinnacle in stereotypical overload. They made him French. Now that they did that, why stop there? Let's make him an arrogant, mysoginistic, cowardly sex-hound. Let's make him the embodiment of everything most North Americans think of when presented with a French person. I bet that went over really well in theaters. Sure, being from Montreal, one might think I took it personally, but aside from language I have nothing in common with European French. I'm simply disappointed that they used an easy, unimaginative way to bring out an antagonist. I would still feel the same way if he had been German, English, Italian or whatever. My point is that there are other types of character development that would've been much better.

4- Trinity: There was almost no character progress with Trinity. Along with Neo and Morpheus, she is the core of the "good guys" and therefore could have used more details or progress. I sincerely hope we don't have another "(insert verb) this" in Revolutions, since I really find that gimmick tired. We had "Dodge this" in Matrix, which was poignant and very appropriate, then "Sample this" in Reloaded, which was part of an almost totally useless scene. Leave the recurring one-liners to Ahhnold, not her.

Of course, I did enjoy a number of things about the movie, such as the highway chase against traffic on a speed bike and the meeting with The Architect, but then you have the "rave" scene and the rather formulaic approach of the whole film... Anyway, I still can't wait for Revelations.

Game? Game?? What platform?


I thought most of the fight scenes lasted waaaay too long.

Re: Re: The Matrix Reloaded: Who's seen it and what did you think?
 

Given that the thread is labeled "SPOILERS", I see no further reason to do so.

I'm fairly certain it's another Matrix. Given how Neo was able to handle the squiddies, I don't see how it can be otherwise. Also, how can The Architect be correct if it's otherwise? I think that's why Neo appears to be in a coma now. He's working it out.

The problem with a mythology like this one is that it can be nested arbitrarily deep. How many "realities" are needed? For that matter, how do you know we're not in a Matrix of some sort?

Yes. If they say that he can reprogram a human with himself, like a "Snow Crash" virus, that's one thing. If he morphs the human into his own looks... it's proof that the "reality" in this movie is another Matrix.

If the "super matrix" theory is true, then The One could be another program (like Deckter is another Replicant in "Bladerunner"). This would explain how The One and Zion came to be in the first place: the machines made them as a relief valve. I mean, you're going to tell me that humans somehow built Zion with all its support equipment w/o help? I dunno.... I don't think any of this is outside the Matrix, in one way or another.

After all, if you think you've freed yourself, you stop fighting. As I said, it's a relief valve.


Mine too.

Good movie overall. Everyone here has posted some interesting theories. Smith as Bane hadn't occured to me until now reading through all of this. But do I really want to go see it a 2nd time so soon? NO. While the first one was fresh and exciting. Reloaded leaves too much on Neo being the one. Since he is the one he can just wave his pinky and eliminate all the baddies. Too much of let's put the good guys into a really sticky situation and see how long it takes for them to get out of it. I'm not saying I won't watch it again because this is definitely a movie that needs to be watched a 2nd or 3rd time to truly appreciate all of the philosophy that the "boys" put into it. Thank God that not all Hollywood movies are just action with minimal plot, but this one just did have the same threat that the 1st one had.

One question I was left with is, why do the various Matrix denisons have their stigmata back? They spent a lot of time in the original movie showing them removing all the "access ports", other than the one on the back of the neck, from Neo, so why'd they all come back on all of them?

Here's my problem with the whole Matrix in Matrix theory; Why go to all the effort to program the second level Matrix? Others have stated that it would be necessary to control the humans who become aware of the first level Matrix. Wouldn't it be easier to just kill them (disconnect them and dump them into the drink). They've got millions of other humans working just fine. Delete the ones who aren't!

Of course, IF the whole concept of the machines, humans, batteries, matrix, etc. is all just a game for some higher level group, then all bets are off. But that would suck! The whole 'world inside a world inside a world' concept has been done before. Anyone remember a movie called The Thirteenth Floor?

The "real world" could just be another part of the regular Matrix, too. An "If they want to think they broke out, put them here" kind of thing.

We don't know what they're actually getting from all this. We also don't know who "they" are.

I thought it was great. I don't have anymore to add than the people here have already done.

as far as the .torrent file... do a search for BitTorrent...

what I don't want to happen is at the end of Revolutions that he rolls over next to Trinity and says,"Woah....I had a wild dream..." (ala Bobby Ewing in Dallas circa 1970's)

If they do that, not only can they kiss off any further Matrix movies, they can kiss off their careers as movie makers. I doubt they'll do it.

SPOILER ????? SPOILER ?????
just came to see it ... I found it overdone, fights are cool, but the second time it's like : OK another fight .. third time it's just boring ..

I didn't think about the concept matrix in a matrix, but it does make sense ... well we will see in the next one :-)

but I won't go back to watch this movie agian, just this once :-)

I watched it again.. may watch it.. again..



Some thoughts I had that seemed to be a bit conflicting.. in the scene where he is fight Meru's group, and he bleeds, Meru tells them he's just a man using the blood as an example.

Fast forward. Keymaker gets shot, bleeds. I thought Keymaker was a program, so why would he be bleeding?



Next.

I tried watching all the background scenes in the area with the Architect as it was showing past Neo stuff and seeing if any of the shots were of OUTSIDE the Matrix.. didn't see any.. but then again I couldn't pay attention to all the shots. Anyway, I tried looking out for it.. and will again.. If they show scenes from outside of the Matrix, well.. that would enforce the general concensus of Matrix within a Matrix.


There was something else I noticed but now I can't think of it.

Oh yeah, if these are UPGRADED Agents, how is Morpheus kicking so much ass This time versus sucking so much versus Smith?

I thought the sexual content within this second movie was a bit far out (or, not good). If they hadn't put in the Rave/Sex scene, I think this movie could have easily been PG-13. I know, who cares about ratings, but really.. the Sex stuff kind of... was totally not in the first one and so I didn't look forward to/want/like it. Although, the music during the rave was quite excellent.

Morpheus almost lost the fight, but he got in a lot of good punches. I guess he might have been pumped up b/c he has the keymaker and he thinks he is very close to ending the war? Maybe Neo is an inspiration to him so he fights better? I dunno...

From what I remember of that scene, the past life of Neo started with him as a boy. That wasn't in the original, however, if you watch the 2nd Rennaissance in the Animatrix there is a scene reminiscent of what is displayed on the screens behind the Architect, of a little boy and his family.

I like the fact that they have crossed the story line over into other media to enrich the universe they have created. I wish that I had an Xbox or PS2 so that I could play enter the Matrix.

That was the baddest movie I have ever seen.

Period.

Bonesaw.. if you have a PC (assuming you must have a mac?) you could play ETM, too..


The other thing I remembered..r elated to Animatrix.. in the Animatrix, when the girl that delivered the package to the drop box gets disconnected ont he Ship, she disappears in the Matrix. When characters get disconnected (die) in the Movies... the characters die (and stay) in the Matrix.. as dead bodies..

^^^^CONFLICT

Good Point!

A few things-

I give it a 7 1/2 out of 10. It just didn't really challenge my mind. Sure the CG was good and the action scenes were amazing, but if I wanted action I'd see yet another Jackie Chan movie. I liked the original Matrix cause it changed my world. It was amazingly abstract with the white rabbit, Neo first realizing his world is fake, the white armory room, Morpheus sitting in the chair with a fisheye-type of lens being used...everything was just much more trippy. It almost seemed as if directors changed because Matrix 2 was "action scene, dialog, action scene, dialog, cheesy lame ass joke, action scene, another cheesy joke..." I was like WTF, if I wanted comedy I'd go see Dumb and Dumber. I think adding jokes (at least more than the first) and a exceedingly high ratio of action scenes to whatever else a director can do were both way too extensive. If someone told me that the theater would crack up in laughter more than 10 times in Matrix 2 (went on at least 30 by the end), I would have waited for it to come out on video even though I've been waiting day in and day out for the movie. Just seemed like the directors were going after the wrong things IMO.
Beyond this, onto the story line. Someone said earlier that neo stopping the sentinals could have been actually done by the Nebacanezzer (sp...) because he too was knocked down. Well Trinity was standing right there and didn't fall so scratch that idea. I think that there is for sure some kind of second matrix going on.
Quick background question: Was Matrix 2 written before, during, or after the making or release of part 1?
All in all, I enjoyed the movie and look foreward to seeing it again, as well as seeing part 3. However I think the excess of jokes was absolutely depressing, as were Gimli's in LOTR Twin Towers. I just felt kind of unintelligent while watching it, realizing that the directors aimed their movie towards such an easily-thrown crowd :rolleyes:

I hate playing games designed for a Platform that is also ported for a PC. To me the games just don't play the same.

I will consider it though.

It was in my eyes that they were ported to Console.. not the other way around..

well there is worse, but The Matrix (1) was much much better that's for sure

My friend just tried to download it from Kazaa and claims he got some Dutch porno instead.

haha some of my friends tried downloading it also, they got 101 Dalmatiers, and some fetish pr0n video :-)


so so funny :-) just go watch in the cinema

SPOILER

I think Ratbastid has a point. While I may be missing some plot detail, I do remember Agent Smith leaving the Matrix in Neo's dream. Neo could simply be seeing the future again just as he saw Trinity being shot, which could still allow Bane's actions to follow the plot correctly. Suppose Bane was never infected. Suppose he is simply a normal human who just so happens to be particularly evil. Neo's dream might show that subconciously Neo knows this, but for this to be true, Neo must have had spent some time with Bane. This might be cleared up in other Animtrix shorts or even the game. Neo's dream might just show that Bane isn't infected until Revolutions. He is still dangerous though, since for Neo to dream about such a terrible thing happening, he must be all kinds of crazy. This could even be the reason Smith chooses to infect him. I'm probably way off...

Bane said "We'll be seeing you." That makes me think of "Me and the other Smiths"




Moving over into the real world? Aside from the whole matrix in a matrix answer to it, it seems to me it would be possible to imprint himself onto the human consciousness, as it's what is actually playing as a digitized form in the Matrix.

Neo's dream though only ever centered around Trinity and her death. As long as Bane isn't directly responsible for Trinity dying, would Neo be able to dream about him being the bad guy on the inside?

Realizm I'll look into the PC version. If the game is meant to be played on a game pad and doesn't play well with a keyboard and mouse then I'd rather play it on a platform. I'm so used to playing shooters with keyboard and mouse that to try and play a game any other way is difficult to get used to (all the extra buttons to accidentally push). When I play stuff on a platform and there are fewer buttons to push I have less difficulty in playing. I guess I'm just weird that way. ;)

Me and a friend were debating Reloaded the night before last, and after seeing it twice each now, we have come to the conclusion of why some viewers disliked it after the first viewing. In the first Matrix, the audience was presented with characters that were only known in the ship Nebuchadnezzar and in the Matrix. That's it. Hell, all other life besides those main characters (and the agents) simply didn't exist in the plot in the first Matrix. This resulted in the main characters being very close to relate to and very easy to analyze.

Now, on to the part where people find Reloaded disappointing: Reloaded is nothing like the first Matrix. After seeing the trailers and tv spots for Reloaded, we all imagined that the characters portrayed in the first Matrix would be shown in the same manner in Reloaded. Wrong. The Wachowski Brothers managed to fit an intricately detailed plot into Reloaded, all the while constructing amazing action scenes that were stylish and well-directed in between. When we see Neo and Trinity in Zion, it just doesn't seem right. Why? Because we are used to seeing them in the grungy-ass Nebuchadnezzar or fighting in the Matrix. The real killer was seeing OTHER people in the Matrix and in Zion besides our beloved main characters from the first one. Simply enough, Reloaded had a different feel and atmosphere than the first one. Anytime we saw an event in Reloaded, we tried to compare it to the first one. We tried to fit the main characters from the first Matrix into their molds we expected them to play; it just didn't work in Reloaded. Why? Because this movie is smarter, wiser, and philosophically loaded. Reloaded is much more complex, thrusting it into the "epic" status. Those that want a repeat of the Matrix need to go watch that movie again, because it's not going to happen. The first Matrix was written like a videogame; Reloaded was written like a novel. Matrix Reloaded is simply a better movie than the first one. Die hard fans will be pissed about this, mainly the ones that wanted action and nothing else. Suck it up, Reloaded is better in every aspect. If you want action, go watch a Chuck Norris movie. Or better yet, go see the doomed Terminator 3. If you are going in to Reloaded expecting to be reminded of the first one, then you will be disappointed. If you go in to see Reloaded with an open mind, believing that it can be different and BETTER than the first one, then you'll love it. Just as Morpheus was quoted saying in the first Matrix..."Free your mind."

-Lasereth

Pretty cool ideas. I'm still not into the movie as much as I'd like to be, but I dig the idea that the change of characters played a big part in peoples dissapointment.

Sure is a good thing the bike had gas in it, huh?

I have a bad feeling about Revolutions. Either Neo isn't as great as they all think he is, or he is waaaaay better than anyone ever thought. The theories about having 2 matrices do make sense.

All right...I saw it twice, and have been playing Enter the Matrix too. Obviously, I loved it. Great action, and definitely left you wanting more.
My theory on the whole multiple matrices idea...I think that when Smith was "destroyed" by Neo, he left a little of himself in Smith, which helped Smith become a "virus". And, when Smith tried to infect Neo, he left a little of himself in Neo. So those two are connected. That's why Neo jumped when Bane returned to Zion after being infected. And, Link even had trouble recognizing Neo's code after he leaves the chateau. So he's been changing. Maybe, since he is "The One" he can just do this...he might still be a program, but he's got some humanity in him, and he's learning.
Just my two cents.

Excellent movie, and this thread has made me think alot of the movie.

My only problem is the rave/sex scene. I think it went on way too long. But then I got thinking about that. After Morpheus' speech, everyone is enflamed with passion. They are all partying, having fun and really enjoying themselves. Being passionate. You can see that in the way they move (jumping around, wavin they hands like they just dont care ;) ). Maybe it supposed to emphasize the passion and love shared between Trinity and Neo.

Anyone have thoughts on this?

How else would they have been able to move the bike up to the platforms?

After the first movie, people wanted more. In Reloaded, we got more. Alot more. You can't expect much more than the quality being presented in the movie. Spiderman had similar use of CGI and they didn't fare any better than Reloaded. And FYI, the Burly Brawl sequence wasn't completely CGI.

One might consider the fact that the Merovingian had researched all aspects about the French culture and picked out what he liked the most about it. And he was both arrogant AND cowardly. hmmmm. He was referred to twice as being "once like" NEO. I doubt if he is as much of a coward as you think.

[quote]
4- Trinity: There was almost no character progress with Trinity. Along with Neo and Morpheus, she is the core of the "good guys" and therefore could have used more details or progress. I sincerely hope we don't have another "(insert verb) this" in Revolutions, since I really find that gimmick tired. We had "Dodge this" in Matrix, which was poignant and very appropriate, then "Sample this" in Reloaded, which was part of an almost totally useless scene. Leave the recurring one-liners to Ahhnold, not her.
[quote]
Come on, tired gimmick? "* this" was only used one time in each movie. And in this case, the expression was used to illustrate her growing offended nature at Persephone's offer.

Formulaic. If formulaic, means that they made it in to a love story and told it entirely in flashback, with Neo dreaming about the possible fate of Trinity, and spending the rest of the movie reaching that point..... then sure. :rolleyes:

The nature of the Reloaded didn't require the same earth sahttering approach that was taken in the first film. I thought that the jokes and lighter moments made it more enjoyable. This was a different movie than the first one. A slightly different approach was taken to accomodate the new storyline.

The Nebuchanezza exploded before the sentinels came. I think it the was ship that remained that sent out the EMP. The Matrix has always been considered a part of a bigger story. The only question after the first one was made was whether it would make enough money to warrant a sequel to tell the remaining story.

Here's my revision

AND

While I thought the sex content was a bit far out, I think the comedy that was inserted into the movie was just over the top.

The people in the theater laughed several times during the two times I went to watch and it just detached from the mood of the movie some. Matrix just didn't look like it was supposed to ever be comedic to me.

I skipped down the lenghty reviews just to post mine.
First of all, the movie was not confusing. If you pay attention you will understand it. If you did not see the first don't bother watching the second. Why? Simply because you're not a true fan. Who is the Oracle? Who is Tank? Who is Agent Smith? That's mainly why.

To add to the "answer" of what really happened in the Matrix. I will go with this. To disect this we must go to the first movie. The children who were being taught to "accept" the program or become an anomaly had a bald headed child who I remember could bend spoons with his mind (maybe more). Now in Reloaded he sends Neo the spoon as if he will understand why. Is it a gift or maybe something more? I'm not going to look too deep into that. Another thing in the first, was that after Neo jumped inside Agent Smith they swapped data. Being that Neo already being the "One" merged some of that data into Smith while Smith might have also gave Neo some "system" or "matrix" data that allows him to do what he can do. Ex: Flying, but it may not be limited to only that. Now at the fight scene with a lot of Smith's we learn that he is no longer a part of the system. Instead he is some kind of rogue program removed from the matrix and maybe the only reason he fights Neo is for a personal vendetta. Adding to that idea, another agent (the new agent, just with a different face) stumbles onto the fight as an chinese lady holding grocery bags. Smith immediately turns him into an Smith. Why? Maybe he is more of a virus or plague and would like to be the only agent.

As we see, the two different kinds of Agents never work together. So indeed Smith may be an asset to Revolutions. But, what happened to the Smith who "dialed out"? (used the phone to get to the real world) Now obviously someone will say that since he is a code or program he can not fuse with the human brain but how can we rule this out after seeing Neo carry his hairstyle back and forth through the Matrix. It could have just been that they didn't want to bother with all that mess of "bald" then "full head of hair". But remember this is the Matrix, it is not limited to our way of thinking. So the man with the weird goatee should in fact be Agent smith. Why was he cutting his hands? He never experienced feeling before or for that matter, even seen blood (coming out from himself). And the knife? To end the battle between Zion and the Matrix by killing the One.

Will everyone die, including the Matrix and Zion because of Neo's choice? Hell no! You see the Source explains that there have been 6 anomalies therefore 6 "One's", so if they all chose the door to the salvation of Zion then they picked 27 females, 17 children and 7 males (so kill me if it's not exact, I don't remember) to start Zion over. Because what reason would the Source have to lie? To avoid death? No. He already explained that there were levels of living they, the machines, were willing to accept. So Neo did in fact make the right choice by choosing to save Trinity because I assume no "One" before him attempted to do so (choose the door back to the Matrix). For this change, you have to expect an opposite outcome. The end of the Matrix.

Earlier where Secretmethod said that it could be another Matrix? True, but why would they go as that far to confuse us. It stops somewhere. But it was on 500 mini Tv's (I'm sure someone will sit down pause their dvd version and count every single tv) and when Neo's thoughts were shown every monitor had a different response so that does mean there are more matrixes? Not really, because the monitor only showed expected responses as "Bullshit" or "Fuck you!" whenever the hero is told the truth. One stands out and speaks. So the other monitors were not really showing seperate worlds or more Matrix's nor Neo's true feelings. I'll leave this one open many answers.

And I've seen a lot of people bitching about the sex scene, the talking, the CGI, everything.....

1. It was something different so sue them. Good speech some people bitched about the "let them hear us" part. People who are not yet ready to cope with death do not understand this. If you are not afraid who cares if they hear you. Their approaching anyway and the only reason they haven't already come is because they can't drill through some iron-ore.

2. The Talking- Fuck the movie for having any kind of a story or plot. If you ask me it was better than all the damn fighting put together. They EXPLAIN the MATRIX to us! More or less. so this was definently a good story not just a action thriller made for wannabe white boys who run around screaming "I am Neo". It's just a movie no one will ever possess that kind of power.

3.CGI- One guy up there said it better than I could. About how it being required for redefining the blocks and tiny but noticeable attacks. But in the highway scene it was just full blown fake. Neo grabbing Morpheus and the Keymaker and dragging them up upwards like two rag dolls which was only saved by the token black guy's "YES!!!" I can't expect perfection this is no Animatrix (although it should have been) or Final Fantasy. There are many parts in which the fighting angered me. Bad choreography and boring fight sequences God forbid Neo should be hit. I accept what Warner Bros. has thrown at us and do so with a smile. Because if were put into their situation, Could you do better? HELL no. Before you bitch remember the time and effort that was put into the film. I close my argument here.

Quoting chinese guy: "I protect that which is most important." (or something to that effect) Is it the Oracle? or something deeper?

And the weirdest thing is that me and one other poster above have one thing we share. During the movie I had about 3 to 4 wide eyed moments where I accepted information that blew my mind or where I put the "pieces of the puzzle" together, so to speak. But during one of those moments, maybe it was all the green, I said to myself. This is like the 13th floor! Yet I have never seen the movie!!!!! The only bit I remember is from a preview of it where green surrounds all these "business type clients" and some ball explodes or something like that. I think something subliminal is going on. Don't be surprised if you see an ad for "The 13th floor" anytime soon on sale or something.
"I have more to add that's what the edit button is for.":D

http://www.corporatemofo.com/stories/051803matrix.htm

Thats a good article about the religious overtones of the Matrix. Well worth the read.

7 out of 10, I gave the original 8 out of 10

My reply from BoCo's thread

Great article. Thanks for posting the link. :)

I think you're being rather simplistic about it, actually.

No. What doesn't seem right about them is that suddenly they've got all the matrix stigmata (holes in arms and back and such) back, which they'd spent time in the first movie showing being removed. That's unexplained.

What I think you're talking about is how the focus in this movie is a bit different. That's true, it is. I don't see that as an innate problem.

However, what it looks like to me is that people were wowed over the fighting scenes in the first movie, so they went overboard with fighting scenes in this movie. It does get boring after a while, IMHO.


That may be a problem for some people, but I found it reassuring: they're not alone, the people working with them are GOOD, and they are supported. Now that Zion is apparently destroyed, I look forward to the impact of the change.

I think that scene was the only reason the movie was rated R, and that it could have been deleted w/o losing much of anything. It's not like they actually showed anything, anyway.

I mean, do you really need to see them fucking to get the idea that they're passionate about each other? I don't. They'd settled that fairly early in the movie with spoken lines, IMHO.

Note that white space generally makes a post easier to read.

It's a reminder. That seems fairly clear.

Neo was The One before merging into Smith, yes. If he'd tried flying before merging, he'd have been able to do it.

The thing about Neo flying is that it's a Hollywood-ism. It seems to me that a "real" Neo would instantaneously change locations instead. It'd be more efficient.


Maybe, or the reverse. It might be that the main Matrix entity may have Smith as an enemy. Given the trailer at the end of movie 2, I see this as verified.


You really should read Snow Crash.



She did "die", as expected, but Neo brought her back, which is an option the Architect didn't cover. Doesn't mean it didn't happen before; just means the Architect didn't see fit to mention it. Keep in mind that the Architect was not necessarily limited to the truth, as one way of lying is to tell only part of the truth.


Note that we've seen those TVs before, in the first movie. What does that tell you?


Dangerous assumption, that.


Exactly.

I see one problem with his analysis: the Old Testament is more than the Five Books of Moses. It also includes many prophets and such.

What? In the first one, everyone that was unplugged from the Matrix had holes. The only people that didn't were the naturally born people like Tank and Dozer. Get your facts straight, they weren't removed in the first one.

-Lasereth

They used the F word a lot, which also gets an R rating.

I think that Trinity is pregnant. Watch the scene when Neo is bringing her back. There is a little glow in her abdomen area.

Oh, and Trinity has to get over the "Your The One, I they need you, I can wait" crap.

I saw it for a second time this weekend and liked it even more than the first! Instead of trying to focus on the story, I just sat back and enjoyed the ride! I did notice something that may support the "Matrix in a Matrix" theory; During the opening title sequence it looked like the green matrix imagery formed the shape of Zion. Can anyone else confirm this?

They had them in their necks, but no place else, as I recall.

Ah. I didn't really notice that.


Maybe. I don't know what it's like to be married to a famous person, for instance.

A friend of mine came up with another intersting twist. When the women kisses Neo why couldn't she have infected him with some code much like Neo infected Agent Smith. Perhaps that is how he is now able to effect machines outside of the Matrix.

What are your interpretations on the various emotional expressions by Neo on the architects TVs? Is it showing variety and unpredictability in humanity or "One"s before him. There might have been a whole hell of a lot of "One"s.

The TV's are possible calculated emotional outcomes...

I think

:D

I like how the discussion this far down has transferred from "I hate it" or "I love it" to more nit picking type of analysis as to the meanings of the movie. Unfotunately, I am going to chime in with an "I love it" type of comment. I honestly do not see what anyone has to complain about in this movie. It has everything anybody could ever want. Or maybe that anybody is just me and those like me, but still... For every "it boored me" type of response to the movie, I can't help but think of old jaded ladies complaining about the number of stairs to reach the viewing platform of the grand canyon. Sure there were a lot of steps, sure some of them were in disrepair, sure an escalator would have been a quicker way to the top, but... What you are looking at is the grand canyon and it is a perfect spring day with a mild breeze and clear skies and !!!!
I guess my point is that the movie was great and people fueled with their own opinions of how the second movie SHOULD have been aren't appreciating the movie for what it is. Anyway, back to the more appreciated worthwhile analysis I hope.

okay.. i just saw wthe movie last night.. Here are my (and Peutetre's) thoughts
We agree on the whole "second matrix" thing..
actually we think of it as a multidimentional array.
The matrix is an array within an array.

Also we think Neo may be a program. Specificly.. we think he may be a manifestation of error handling, or an "garbage collector".
When the oracle is talking about "ghosts, aliens, werewolves and vampires.." being programs doing stuff they arent supposed to be doing and they get a choice to shut down and exile themselves or get destroyed/ assimilated into the sources.. we think that may specificly alluding to Neo's role in the whole thing. Perhaps Zion is that exile? Perhaps Neo being the anomaly and all his powers stem from him being a conglomoration of errors in the programming. The Matrix keeps running him through the program trying to correct these errors over and over again until it's rate of failure is minimal. That is what the architect says that they have done this 5(or 6?) times previously. Theoreticly he's stuck in a "Do Until" loop.

edit: Much true about the TVs being the same as in the original...


Interesting thought about Monica infecting Neo, I had thought that myself as I watched it if only because of the little "matrix sound" that you hear as they kiss... The Same sound you hear as the matrix is changing something the digitized rain.

I think you've got something there. Of course, if you do and he's another program, it kinda assumes that the "real world" is either another Matrix, or another part of the regular Matrix. That is, that they still don't have a way out.

If you think you've escaped, you stop trying to escape. And we've already seen that the machines can fool a human into thinking they're not in an emulation. Most people in the Matrix are like that, yes? :D

For all we know, they might not even be on Earth. Maybe they're planetary colonists in transit, and don't know it.

Yeah, denim, fixed that dizziness you'd get after trying to read my post. Much clearer now. Finally, thanks for someone remarking on my post, always like to hear how other people think.

i just liked going in and watching the action and having my mind fucked with at the same time

The Architect talked about how they had the first "perfect"matrix, then they had to reset it. Then the next one wasn't right, so they did it again. Will the Architect ever construct an ideal matrix that won't have to be restarted every so often? Or, like said in the film, will there always be that remainder left after the calculations which is the One?

Oh, and this was one awesome movie, no matter what anyone says.