The End of the Nolan Batman Trilogy...
 

I'll ask that this thread be renamed when the next title is revealed.

This thread is about speculation regarding the next Batman movie following the Dark Knight. It will feature speculation on plot, casting, villain, title, and many other things. Hopefully it will also be the official thread in the next year or two when information about Batman Begins 3 starts to surface.

Be warned: thar be spoilers ahead.

I'd like to start this with speculation about the general plot and thus the villain(s) which will help to close the best Batman franchise ever. I'm going to come right out and say it: Catwoman. We were allowed a glimpse of the Batman pretenders in The Dark Knight, and it stands to reason that there will be more and more as time goes on. One such pretender, or at least one who is inspired to vigilantism, could be a thief by the name of Selena Kyle. After the untimely death of Rachel Dawes, Batman/Bruce will likely be left heartbroken and not find any comfort in the arms of the more shallow company he keeps as Bruce. Along with Batman being chased by the police in connection with the Dent murders, he will be in an especially dark place. I somehow don't think this will be enough story, though. This leaves the floor open for another villain.

I'll admit to being concerned that it could be the Riddler, or as I like to call him "the second most boring villain in Batman's rogues gallery after the Penguin". I hope this idea is dismissed, instead being someone a bit more complex and maybe sinister. I would personally like to see one of two: Bane or Mr. Freeze. I know that these are both a bit more science fiction than Ras, Scarecrow, and Joker, but we need escalation to be followed, as it's a central theme of the franchise.

Bane: Around 1993, when I was a boy who read comic books, Bane was a very different character than the one most might be familiar with today. He is a brilliant strategist, very cultured, and even a bit melancholy, in addition to his greatly enhanced strength from the venom serum. Bane's hatred of Batman comes from his own childhood, where he is haunted by nightmares of a demonic figure which resembles Batman. Instead of attacking Batman, he attacks Arkham and frees many great villains which Batman spends months rounding up. Bane discovers Batman's identity and battles him at Wane Manor, eventually breaking Batman's back, paralyzing him. Many likened this moment (which can be seen in the Knightfall series 1993-1994) as being paralleled to the death of Superman at the hands of Doomsday. A combination of Robin, Catwoman, and a character named "Azrael" had to protect the city as Bruce went to seek out a supernatural means of healing.

I'm not saying they have to follow this story (though it's quite engaging), but using the character of Bane from this series, instead of the dumb brute as he is portrayed elsewhere, would be good for the series.

Mr. Freeze: please, please forget Arnold's despicable suck fest. The Mr. Freeze from pre-crisis and from the Animated series of the 90s was a complex, depressed, and endlessly devoted man who's one purpose in life was to save his beloved wife. All of the crimes he committed were to fund or somehow help to find the cure to her ailment (which changed from time to time, but basically she has to be kept in a suspended state or die). Ra's, Scarecrow, and Joker, the villains so far, have been id's run wild. None of them were particularly sympathetic characters which allowed us the simple choice of siding with Batman completely, even when he was doing morally questionable things to stop them. But what of a heroic character who is obsessed with saving his one true love? Not even Two-Face can compete with that.

There are a lot of other villains to consider, and there is the fact that Batman will be hunted by the Gotham Police, which also opens up the possibility of Batman squaring off with a hero. I keep coming back to Green Arrow, who is nearly a mirror image of Batman—wealthy, socially active, anti-hero, relies on technology instead of superpowers—but just different enough that he could make for an interesting challenge for Batman.

Robin/Nightwing? The Dark Knight made it clear that Bruce agreed that staying Batman forever was a mistake and something he wasn't interested in. He wants someone to take over, and this could be motivation to accept someone under his wing. No annoying little kid, or some idiot (Chris O'Donnel), but someone who Batman fears will become a villain if he doesn't interfere.

Thoughts?

You pretty much just summed up my feelings on the subject. While I have a personal liking of the Mad Hatter, I know many hate that character so I'll just forget about it.

I think the Bane story line could work very well, but mostly I'd like the Joker back. I realize that many think it a sacrilege, but did anyone seriously think Heath Ledger couldn't be bested before his performance became known? Of course not. I think there is someone out there vaguely similar looking to Ledger who could do just as well if not better at making the joker their own, while keeping him in the same spirit of Ledger's incarnation.

Having said that, I don't think the Joker has to be a main character. I think having Bane brought in would be perfect, especially if they followed the basic Knightfall story and had him broken out of Arkham by Bane.

Your idea for Catwoman and Robin/Nightwing were exactly how I thought they could be done, as heroes inspired by Batman. Selena Kyle of course would be an anti-hero, but I'm sure falling in love with Bats would work fine as justification for a string of heroics.

The most interesting of the ideas, and the one that fits the current story arc best for me is the Batman being hunted by another hero or heroes. There is plenty of opportunity in that storyline to introduce morality and difficult choices, as well as upping the difficulty for Batman as he tries to stop other villains while being hunted down. Also, having chosen his current vigilante guise, he would be unwilling to do to much harm to the hero hunting him as he would understand why they would come for him. The current role he has chosen for himself is almost designed to draw out that hero, one that Gotham could be proud to have and possibly replace Dent as their "White Knight."

As far as Robin, my understanding of Bruce's wishes in the films aren't that he hopes someone will replace him as a masked vigilante so he won't have to do it forever, but that when the right person comes along to lead Gotham in the right direction, his role of vigilante/protector won't be needed any longer, and he can retire to a normal life and not need to be replaced.

As long as Nolan avoids Robin or Batgirl, I'll be happy.

It wasn't intentional, but you're absolutely right. My concern is that Gordon will have to be Batman's enemy and eventually catch him. Awkward. :expressionless:

Christian Bale has said he won't do a Batman film that has a Robin character. So that's out--I presume Nolan has learned from the earlier series of films that a revolving-door of batmen just doesn't work.

I agree that Penguin, Riddler, and Poison Ivy need to be avoided--their portrayals in the earlier films was just too iconic, and it would take someone of Ledgerian talent to reclaim the characters from the camp portrayals they're known for. Not that it couldn't be done, but it'd be nice to tread some new ground, the way the first film did.

There's a whole panoply of great Batman baddies. I'd like to see the story of Dr. Kurt Langstrom (a.k.a. The Man-Bat) make it into a feature. It's a great, tragic story. I think Clayface would be fun. Maybe Killer Croc, too.

I'd like to see Joker's "Red Hood" backstory. You've got to think that Joker will be a feature badguy in the next movie, given he's up at Arkham just waiting to get sprung by either Bane or Harley Quinn. For SURE we need Harley Quinn, if we get Joker back. Love that crazy little clown chick.

I'd like to see Talia al Ghul show up as a love interest, perhaps competing with Selena Kyle.

I can't believe I forgot: BLACK MASK! Considering the reliance on the mob as a major part of the story, who better to introduce? A business tycoon who loses his job on account of his own failure, goes insane, and carves a mask out of a piece of his mother's coffin? Brilliant!

Bane, Black Mask, and Catwoman, anyone?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi.../da/Bat636.jpg

I couldn't watch someone else play the Clown Prince of Crime. It was depressing enough seeing Heath Ledger do so well posthumously.

I would honestly like to see Catwoman make an appearance. She's the perfect love interest: dark past, secret life, etc.

Who would be good to play Catwoman? My first thought was Charlize Theron, but I'm still not sure that she's a good actress. Tricia Helfer? Carrie Anne Moss? Naomi Watts? Jolene Blalock? Michelle Monaghan? Thandie Newton? I'm having trouble deciding who I'd like.

Therein lies the rub. I think you'd need a great method actress like Bale to do it. Moss, no. Newton, no. Blalock, absolutely not. I honestly couldn't tell you. I'd almost say Angelina Jolie, but I don't think she could pull it off. Maybe Winona Ryder?

The whole point of Catwoman is that she is Batman's kindred spirit. They never know eachother's real identities, and that's what makes it so interesting. As for villains, I think Riddler could work, but it couldn't be played like it has before. I don't think Mr. Freeze or Poison Ivy are ready yet. This isn't the fantastical Batman, it's too gritty, too based in reality. Maybe Penguin could work, but as more of the Penultimate mobster, hellbent on taking over Gotham.

Please for the love of all that is holy don't make Angelina Jolie Catwoman. Watching her in Wanted was almost painful.

I finished what I was doing, so now I can add to this post, which was kind of...abrupt the first time.

I basically think there is a very strong incentive to find someone who can do Ledger's Joker justice. Speaking of another A Knight's Tale alumn, I heard it thrown about the Paul Bettany was considered as another candidate for the Joker. It'd be different than Ledger's, sure, but I can see it. And I think it'd work. While letting the character die with Ledger is very poetic and all, the character is far too vibrant and important to the Nolan mythos for me to think that it's worth it to not try damn fucking hard to find someone else.

Which says nothing for the fact that a return to Arkham gives them a chance to bring back the Scarecrow in a meaningful way, and also to introduce some new lovely villains as RB mentioned earlier in this thread.

I think introducing Catwoman is tempting, because she'd fit very well into Nolan's grey, contemporary Gotham city, but the trouble really is finding someone to play her convincingly both in terms of appearance and in terms of attitude. The looks have to be there, but having Catwoman be like Katie Holmes's Rachel Dawes would just kill the movie. I almost wonder if looking for someone a little older might not be a bad idea, instead of trying to pick between hot, vapid starlets. Maybe Carla Gugino, Linda Fiorentino or Jennifer Tilly? Not totally sure. Theron has potential, since her performance tends to vary a lot based on her direction. With Nolan at the Helm, he could probably make it work. The rest of the girls on your list aren't cutting it for me so much.

That being said, unlike Nicholson's Joker, I'm pretty sure you could port Pfiefer's Catwoman over to Nolan's world without a whole lot of trouble, which kind of makes her a less interesting character to reboot.

Heck, let's just throw irony in the blender and cast Michelle Williams. Quasi-widow of Ledger, Dawson's Creek alumnae, what do we have to lose?

Winona Ryder, hmm. She's always been a bit of an uncertainty in my mind. I think she can act, but as I look back over her filmography I can really only think of her playing the same character over and over again. She's like Will Smith.

Carla Gugino's an interesting choice. She'd probably have to get in shape, but I'm sure she could do that. I think she's a good actress, but for the life of me I can't remember what she's been especially good in. Fiorentino's too old (Dogma was made about 10 years ago). Same with Tilly (not to mention she really can't act).

I'll throw some entirely different names out there (names that I think of when I ask myself who the best actresses are): Tilda Swinton, Cate Blanchett, Hilary Swank, and Helena Bonham Carter.

I'm betting on Cat Woman or The Riddler as the next villain, with a possible return of Two-Face (they never said he was dead).

In Nolan's universe, however, no villain can be really cartoony. I see The Riddler as more of a John Doe in Se7en type.....serial killer who likes playing games with the cops.

They had a rather public funeral, but he may not have been in the coffin.
Hmmm.... sociopath toying with the cops. You mean like the Joker? Too similar. They need someone physically powerful in some way, to stand in opposition to Scarecrow, Two-Face, and Joker. That's why I thought Bane would be an interesting choice. Maybe he's a "consultant" for hire who works with police to catch particularly bad criminals. I dunno.

but is Bane a "franchise" villain for a trilogy?

Burton had the Penguin for Batman Returns. He has no powers and is completely uninteresting.

Bane is interesting.

and the Penguin was completely lame.

as for "powers", I don't want a villain who has any. there has been nothing supernatural about the series so far and I don't want it to go that route

If by "franchise", you mean "appeared in the 60's show", then not as I recall, no. That's where most non-comic-book-geeks get their knowledge of the Batman universe from. Anybody not steeped in Batman cannon knows of their Gotham criminals from their interaction with Adam West's Batman, and they expect Sid Caesar and Burgess Meredith.

But look: Scarecrow wasn't around then. Neither was Ra's al Ghul. Those are really almost completely from the books (and the 90's cartoon, but that's not really in most people's awareness, either). It was BALSY to do a Batman movie without a Joker-caliber badguy, and the totally pulled it off. They could do it again.

One of the themes from Dark Knight that I LOVED is that Batman himself is the destabilizing factor that makes Joker go costumed. I think Nolan could easily put the next film in a Gotham where the criminal element has gone as crazy as Batman is, and a more cartoonish quality is accepted.
-----Added 26/7/2008 at 01 : 14 : 37-----
Bane's "powers" are scientific in origin. Every bit as scientific as Scarecrow's spooky-dust, anyway.

I suspect most fans now get their Batman IQ from the Animated Series from the 90s. Mine comes from a combination of graphic novels and that series.

As for Jolie, I heard that she has already been asked about it; it also makes me sad. How about Alexis Bledel; I know it seems very strange but she has this almost innocent air while also a teasing viciousness. Plus, she is incredibly talented as well as beautiful. Also, the following: Natalie Portman, Rachel McAdams, Scarlett Johannson, Rachel Weisz, Allison Lohman, Claire Danes, Selma Blair, or Zooey Deschanel (who I think would be wonderful).

Just some thoughts.

actually, i meant is Bane a villain who can carry a film.

I think it would be interesting to introduce Harley Quinn as either someone who is carrying out The Joker's schemes from jail, or as a Joker copy cat villain.

My take on the Two Face and the funeral was that he was dead to the rest of the world, no longer affiliated with the police/government, and thus could re-emerge as a character with "freedom" much like Batman has at night.

I'm not familiar with Batman and the characters beyond the recent movies, but it seems unlikely to me that they would introduce the second "half" of Two Face halfway through the movie, and then have him die and be gone forever upon its conclusion. It just seems like a very short lifespan for such a well developed character.

I also thought it possible that Batman will take a step back and Two Face could become the new representation of good, as the photography shots during the closing moments of the movie indicated that if only one aspect of him were to die, it would be his evil side.

However, due to me not being familiar with the characters beyond the two most recent movies, I'm not sure how viable that is. But if Batman does really take a step back, then someone is going to have to fill his shoes; and I suppose that could also lead to an introduction of Robin, though I like to think it's going to be Two Face, if only because it's what I initially thought could be the future of the character.

Eckhart was signed for two films, so there you go

It could be memories or old footage.

Scarlet Johannsen or maybe Keira Knightley. I still think Winona Ryder could pull it off with the problem direction and preparations.

I honestly don't want to see anyone with "superpowers" enter the equation, unless it has a solid scientific explanation. My guess is that we're going to see multiple criminals appear in the next movie, just like Dark Knight. I would love to see Mr. Freeze or the Riddler make an appearance, but I don't know if you can pull Mr. Freeze off without making it cartoonish, and I'm not sure if you can pull off the Riddler without making him like the Joker.

I suspect we'll be seeing Two-Face again, just this time his personality will be fully split and Harvey Dent will be all but dead.

I thought it was pretty clear he wasn't dead at the end of TDK. They did the Cmsr. Gordon eulogy in order to preserve the "white knight of gotham" image of Dent but Dent could easily be at-large or at Arkham

I remember reading something about lasers being used to create cold, maybe a few years back. That could be used to explain the Freeze Gun. As for Bane, steroids have a lot of different incarnations.

honestly, I don't know much about Bane, which is why I asked if he could carry a movie

I could see a whole film being written around the Kurt Langstrom "Man-Bat" story.

i think the challenge facing Nolan is that Ledger was SO good as The Joker (and The Joker is such an icon of the Batman universe) that it'll be hard to top it. I don't think a villain who isn't very well known will do it. Cat Woman or the Riddler might

I definitely think Two Face is coming back - they were just too subtle about how they worded his "death" and separating Harvey Dent from his murders. But isn't Two Face a villain? How would he step forward into being a good guy now? That seems... off.

Most of the women mentioned for Catwoman are NOT dark enough, I think. I'll come back when I figure out who is.

That particular story, despite being really awesome, is probably too science fiction to seem in line with BB and TDK.

Possible upcoming villians? My thoughts...

Riddler. I love the riddler personally - no flash, no thrash - just a crazy loon who toys with people.

Possible actors?

Jim Carrey would be good with his improved acting talent - however we won't see him as... 1) He's already done it and 2) people whould see him as Ace Ventura, something that doesn't fit *at all* in this new semi-gothic Gotham.

John Lithgow. This was my personal idea. Before you dismiss him as a simple comedian - imagine how his face would look in a flickering shadow as his slightly nasally voice qeuries in a loud, angered voice "Riddle me this, Batman!" His voice makes this a very possible choice.

Daniel Day-Lewis. The only thing I can think of that would prevent his casting is his voice. He absorbs himself into his roles and produces steller performances with 'bad guys'. (See Gangs of New York)

Robin Williams. He has the voice, he's done serious movies, and I think he could pull the villian aura off well.


Mister Freeze. This would be extremely easy in the technopunk-gothic movie Gotham . The suit would look awesome and would fit in very well in the setting. This is who I'm putting my money on, as the tag team of Two Face and Freeze appeals to me.

Possible Actors?

My only thought on this is Hugh Laurie. Not because he absolutely needs to be cast in the role, but because I can't think of anyone else at the moment. He's not imposing enough by himself to be imposing, but you slap on a suit that looks like it weighs 300 pounds and the imposing factor takes care of itself. Plus he looks intellectual. I'm not saying it's the best choice, I'm just saying it's possible.

Catwoman and Poison Ivy

These two may be cast into the same movie, or may be seperated. I'm pretty sure that the writers will avoid the fiasco that we saw in Spiderman 3. (Well, other people saw - I know better than to spend 2 hours watching a slideshow of various Spiderman villians)

Unfortunately, I dislike Catwoman as a villian. Whenever she appears the show / comic / movie / conversation turns into a drama, rather than an action. Posion Ivy has the same problem, but much less so. Ivy would be more interesting, but I'm completely sure Catwoman will be seen before her.

Actors?

Halle Berry. Sorry - I had to write it. There's not a chance in hell. I really have no idea who would be cast in the female slots.

Firefly. A long shot, but a possiblity. Someone crazy looking would be necessary. I'm out of ideas though.

Bane. Another possiblity. Once again, no idea on casting. The problem here is that you'd need to find a bodybuilder who is a good actor. These are notoriously rare.

Casting for the Riddler? Ryan Gosling or maybe an older Riddler played by Geoffrey Rush.

Bane? Viggo Mortensen. He's in good shape off Venom, but on Venom he can be CG. They need someone smart, assertive, and most importantly someone who owns the room.

Mr Freeze? I'm thinking either Ralph Fiennes or David Strathairn.

Daniel Day Lewis would turn down a role in a Batman movie. As much as I'd love to see him do it, he's above them.

A great actor for The Riddler is already in the movie: Gary Oldman

Will, you mentioned a new Freeze simply because he could be someone that the audience could feel sorry for, someone they could sympathize or empathize with. In that same vein what about the original Scarface with Arnold Wesker at the helm?

Being a child of the mob he could fit that angle and his Dissociative Identity Disorder (Multiple Personality Disorder?) could link into Arkham Asylum. Granted having a killer ventriloquist could wind up being very childish. However, if done correctly Wesker's self-conflicting nature could provide a world of depth.

However, I could see Riddler being the next villian and taking this chance to turn Batman from just a vigilante with high tech, a la Punisher, into one of the world's greatest detectives as he's often billed in the comics.

As for Bane, I don't see how they could add him without staying true to the end mythos. So now the Bat is broken... Where do we go from here? We can't end with Bruce crippled and adding Azrael (Valley) just seems crazy. Not to mention adding Valley instead of Robin or Nightwing would lose more than a few people. So that means Batman has to be broken and the come back from being a paralyzed better than ever. Just explaining that might be a bit much in the realistic world that the films are set in.

I think Patrick Stewart could pull off Mr. Freeze, but I'm afraid too many people would see him as Captain Picard. Perhaps Dane Cook as the Riddler, I think he could pull it off. He was great in Mr. Brooks. Robin Williams and John Lithgow are just too famous and won't be taken seriously by the public. I think you'd have to find someone like Ledger for the Riddler. It would need to be someone who can transform themselves into the person they're playing and totally steal the show. At the moment I can't think of anyone who isn't already playing a role in the movie.

The dummy wouldn't work. We could see that he was nuts, but we've already had the best in that category: Joker. comics.
The Nolan Batman movies have not stuck with the original comic books. They wouldn't have to have Batman's back broken, just have him lose 1 on 1 really badly.

Wow, Daniel Day Lewis would be amazing as a Batman villain, not necessarily as Riddler, but someone much darker, maybe even a replacement for Ledger's Joker, as he seems to get just as absorbed in his roles as Ledger did in this one. Unfortunatley I think Will is right, he would consider himself above comic book movies.

Daniel Day Lewis would be a HELL of a Bane.

DRAINNNAGE!! Drainage, Batman! If you have a milkshake, and I have a milkshake... there it is. Are you watching? My straw reaches across the room, and starts to drink your milkshake....
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3.../Milkshake.jpg

I drink it up!

Holy thread explosion Batman.

I don't care who or what the next Batman movie is about as long as it doesn't suck. Spiderman 3 anyone? WTF happened, seriously. Spiderman 2 is still tied as my favorite comic book movie ever, and then the series gets ruined by the third one.

Daniel Day-Lewis would be amazing in almost any role that he's type appropriate to play, i.e. not a large black woman, for example. I think you might have a tough time selling him to join the franchise, though, despite its success. The guy takes himself pretty fucking seriously.

Not to say Nolan's Batmans aren't serious movies, but they're definitely not along the lines of the roles Day-Lewis has previously played.

For what it's worth, I'll throw out a predictiation about a potential plotline for the next film. I think one of the plotlines is going to have to do with James Gordon Jr. Why? Because they seemed to focus on him quite a bit, and made a point of his distress over the way Batman was being treated. As far as I know, he is barely even mentioned in the existing Batman lore, other than that he is Comm Gordon's son. This is in contrast to The Dark Knights treatment of Gordon's daughter, who has a significant place in Batman lore as Batgirl. Whereas she it veritably ignored in TDK, insomuch as to only being billed in the credits as Gordon's daughter.

So I could foresee Gordon Jr. as either some sort of Batbuddy character, or possibly someone to "take over the mantle", sort of in the Batman Beyond vein.

I wonder how the hardcore Batfans would react to a completely brand new villain?

poorly, considering how many existing villains haven't been used

Yes, but as discussed, many are fare too "cartooney" or supernatural to fit into the "new Gotham".

It was pointed out to me by my brilliant (and noticey) girlfriend that every time little Barbara Gordon is seen, we really only see her forehead or the top of her little blonde head. Her theory is that when Barbara is eventually cast as a grown woman, we don't want some little bucktoothed child-actor spoiling the continuity. Never mind that Rachael Dawes apparently got a facelift between the two movies...

I hate to be even more brilliant and noticey, but Barbara Gordon was Commissioner James Gordon's wife in the movie. His son's name was Jim and his daughter was unnamed. This can be verified on IMDB.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0468569/fullcredits#cast

Fixed link

Bane (comics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

I fixed it. I'll report the problem with posting links. :no:

Catwoman could be interesting. Maybe Eliza Dushku? Given the flavor of of the movies, there is really only one villian I can think of that would make a perfect fit. Hush.

Maybe even a "reverse" Batman type like The Wrath, who is tied into both Batman and Gordon, and can make Batman look even worse to the public than he ends up looking in DK by emulating his style, but commits murders instead of save lives. There was another character like that more recently, whose parents were killed by police, but I can't remember his name or what he looked like. Anywho, that would fit in well with the continuing theme of the films IMO.

Yes, I was noticey about that during the film, but forgetty about it when I posted above. Pretty serious cannon violation, there--perhaps I blocked it out.

more like a face droop, amirite?

I don't get the hatin' on Maggie. I think she's cute.

and at least a decent actress. Katie Holmes on the other hand...

I'm surprised and a little disappointed how may Catwoman suggestions are just current, hot starlets. Scarlett Johannsen? Seriously? Why not just cast Loni Anderson?

You need someone more dangerous than sexy. In other words, Junkie hot.

What's Courtney Love doing these days?


I'm betting on Two-Face and a storyline that focuses on Gordon and his relationship with Batman.

I'd hate to see the trilogy go out with a ridiculous battle royale o' added characters like so many other unnamed trilogies.

Well, but she needs to clean up okay, because Selina Kyle's relationship with Bruce Wayne is part of the whole Catwoman package--and it's hard to see Bruce picking a girl up out of the gutter.

I'm working on who would be dangerous enough... Nobody mentioned so far really captures it. Scarlett MIGHT be able to pull it off. If she weren't already sullied by her earlier portrayal, Halle Berry might actually be pretty good. Somebody as hot and edgy as Sharon Stone was back in the 80's. I wish Megan Fox could pull it off. Hell, maybe she could with some really sharp direction and coaching.

Yeah, or Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction.

Ooh, wait! What about Miley Cyrus?

She posed with her naked back on a national magazine!! That's like, totally scandalous!

The fact that she already failed once as Catwoman aside, Halle Berry is a terrible actress. The only time I have ever found her remotely believable was in Bulworth, and that's not really saying a whole lot. She (and Bryan Singer and Brett Ratner) ruined Storm, and Jinx was just an awfully conceived and executed Bond girl, which I think about covers her experience in action movies. I will never understand why she won Best Actress, and that's probably a topic for another thread anyway.

Megan Fox has the perfect look, but i have little confidence in her ability to bring to the role what Nolan's characters have required. Not that Transformers was really indicative of anyone's skill as an actor (we are talking Michael Bay here), but unless she comes out in something else that demonstrates range other than "Hot chick in peril" I don't think there's much promise.

Scarlett suffers from a similar problem as Fox, and has a very innocent look, which I'm not sure is conducive to playing Catwoman. She'd make a much better Harley Quinn, if she were to be anything. She has shown some good range in Ghost World, Lost in Translation or Scoop, but hard to say and she did work with Nolan to some effect in The Prestige, so she's got that going for her. I don't know much about her upcoming film "The Spirit" or her character, but that might give some insight.

Someone mentioned Alexis Bledel, who is another interesting choice, but, again, not a whole lot of range. If they would be wiling to look a bit older, though, I quite like Lauren Graham (who played her mother on Gillmore Girls).

First person I think of when you say "Junkie Hot" is Gina Gershon, but I think that's probably a bad idea for a lot of reasons. Haha.

Lauren Graham came to mind but I don't think of Lauren like I think of Catwoman.

Will, correct me please because I assume I'm wrong.

Catwoman is a line walker. She isn't "good" or "bad"; she's a thief who gets what she can. She is incredibly sexy but I don't think going the road of sex pot is a good idea; she is a cat, she is elusive and she is young. Alexis is beautiful, small and innocent, but her eyes can scream; it's all eyes with Nolan. He loves method, which she is. She gets pigeon holed hard core because she played the cutesie girl next door for so long, but she has range. Trust me.

Watch Sin City again and see what I see. Potential.

I was kinda thinking Heather Graham as Harlequin. She's got the goofy bubblyness that we saw in Boogie Nights.

But I could see Scarlett, as long as the part doesn't call for her singing any Tom Waits songs.

EDIT: Woah. Just had a thought. You know who could pull off Catwoman? Chloë Sevigny. She's hot (or at least, she can do hot), and she's WAY edgy. She can play girlish and playful, she can play crazed psycho, she can play seductress. She's CLEARLY got the acting chops for the part, I think. And she's method just like Nolan and Bale.

Catwoman's not necessarily young. I think the age difference between Bale (34) and Bledel (26) would be an issue. I suspect people would be more comfortable with a woman closer to the 30-35 range so that it doesn't feel like he's robbing the cradle.

BTW, Bledel is not method. She's also never done anything that required her to really show her acting chops. WB dramas could star anyone (*cough* Katie Holmes *cough*) and her movie career is really unimpressive. When Ledger was brought on board, it was after he had made a name for himself in Brokeback and I'm Not There.

I think I know who may be able to play the Riddler: Kevin Spacey. He does off-kilter crazy well.

YES YES YES THIS THIS THIS!

Heather Graham could be Harley Quinn, someone who is talked into becoming batshit insane while Joker is at Arkham. She comes out, does the whole Joker thing, but in a much... sexier way.

And Chloe Sevingy as Catwoman. Hell yes.

Oh, I definitely see the potential. I ran through all of the Sin City girls (which is what prompted my Carla Gugino suggestion above) since, while it's not the same, the tone and the look are similar.

I think it could work, but she does look very young (even compared to Katie Holmes) and is relatively untested outside of being a cute teenager/college student.

I will be following this thread.

I have one thought...Nolan did not let the Joker die, so I think he will be back.

What about Rosario Dawson? She was in Sin City and I'd say that she is rather talented.

Personally, I would hate that. I think she's fairly irritating, but I can see why it's not a bad choice, and a lot of people do like her.

Have you seen Alexander? Yikes.

I noted that she had two ample talents in that movie.

And uh, that's about it. Because that movie was really really bad, and probably should not really be held against anyone who was in it.

You don't blame the actors for signing on? I can't imagine reading the script and thinking, "An entire 3 hour movie about how one of the greatest military leaders in history was gay? Where they only really show one major military engagement and don't even do it justice? Where do I sing up?!" :no:

And yes, she's gorgeous. I really liked her down-to-earth character in Clerks 2. She can do well in certain roles, but can she be Catwoman? Not in a Nolen incarnation. Maybe in a Robert Rodriguez incarnation.

as long as we're throwing out names for Catwoman, how about Summer Glau?

- sexy
- dark
- not Hollywood A-list

seems to fit the profile.

Did I mention sexy?

http://hereticdhammasangha.files.wor...ronicles-3.jpg

I dunno. It seems like it's still be Batman robbing the cradle. I, on the other hand, am about the right age.

Call me, Summer. :suave:

here's a pic I like even bigger, it's just way too big to put in this thread:

http://monsterscifishow.files.wordpr...122_1140lo.jpg

What about Christina Ricci as Catwoman?

Argh everyone stfu about Catwoman. Catwoman has no place in a tightly woven trilogy. What role could she possibly play to advance the story?

Step back for a second: Where does this trilogy (if it is a trilogy) need to go? Here is where we left off:

1. Police chase for batman
2. Public thinks he is a 6 x cop killer
3. Who cares about Harvey Dent, he's played his role
4. They don't need the Joker. I don't think Arkam is as incompetent in the Nolanverse as it needs to be in the comic canon to keep the Rouge Gallery in steady rotation.

The next movie doesn't need a primary villian, it needs a very literal anti-hero. Batman is going to need to be hunted, and so I imagine the police, with under-the-table backing from gangsters, hire someone like Bane to do the hunting. If I were going to write the script, I would have Bane be written very similar to Emil Blonsky from the Incredible Hulk--a brutal special forces who doesn't have Bats aversion to killing. I'd probably spend some time in the first act committing some crimes in Batman equipment to turn the public opinion against Bats.

A rather huge role, actually. Consider the following themes: redemption, vigilantism, mutuality... not only that but Batman Year One provides a PERFECT backstory and template for a good, solid Catwoman.

She's a thief. The year one backstory doesn't fit at all with where we left off with the Nolanverse. Batman doesn't need an ambivalent fellow masked rouge/vigilante, he need someone to hunt him, and a way to redeem himself. Catwoman provides neither of those things, and an inclusion in any but a greatly altered version (to play one of those two roles) would be pure fanboy fluff.

Do I need to read Year One again? As I remember, she provided some filler, some eye candy, and an occasional deus ex machina. Her role could have easily been redistributed if it wasn't considered 'neccessary' to the canon.

Catwoman represents the good he can't see that he's doing. A thief becoming someone dedicated to justice is the change that Bruce wanted to see from the get go, and some of that hope was lost with Dent.

Not only that, but Rachel really wasn't like Bruce. Catwoman was always more of a kindred spirit. That could be important in regaining his perspective after losing Rachel.

Found this on the web, some pretty good options in here

8 Great Villains We Want in the Next Batman Movie - OMG Lists.com - When we list, the world listens- The Ultimate Pop Culture List Site!

The Penguin is boring, no one would know who Zsasz is, Blackfire would anger the religious right... Whisper is 100% science fiction (or even fantasy). Strange would be interesting, but I'm having trouble imagining him fitting in with the setup of Batman 3. Riddler, imho, is too similar to the Joker (narcisism, laughs, leaving clues, costume, etc.) to really allow Batman 3 to be set apart from TDK.

Black Mask is interesting. Retro brought him up earlier in the thread (credit where credit is due), and I've been thinking about how he would fit in. The shared childhood friendship (and secret hatred) with Bruce Wayne could create an interesting dynamic. It also lends to the "there but for the grace of god go I..." kinda thing, where Bruce realizes that he could have become Black Mask had he killed Joe in Batman Begins. Had it not been for Rachel he might have. The torture thing might be interesting, too. A lot of people were surprised that Bond was tortured in Casino Royale (even though he had been tortured in the previous movie, Die Another Day, albeit less convincingly and realistically). Batman still feels a bit invulnerable from a physical standpoint, only having falls and dog bites really featured as physical challenges. I'd be concerned, though, that most people would have to go to wikipedia to learn who Black Mask is. That might piss off medium fans, those who enjoyed the occasional comic and tv show instead of die hards.

Who cares if no one knows who the character is before hand? I bet you probably only 10% of the theater that I was in knew who Harvey Dent was before half his face was torched off. A good movie is a good movie, a good character is a good character, despite his name or his previous popularity.

*Entire country raises hands*
Oh comon, you really think only 10% knew who Harvey Dent was?

You are right will, 10% was probably high. I heard a collective "is that two face?" when he was in the hospital and it showed the burnt side. Keep in mind I saw this movie this last Sunday, so all the hard core kids had already seen it.

I think Black Mask could work very well. He could be the mob boss who takes control of the mob in Joker's absence, also allowing him to not only act out his personal vendetta against Batman, but Bruce Wayne as well.

I doubt many people will care if they don't know who Black Mask is. Many didn't know who Raz Al Ghoul was, but if the introduction is done right, it can be pulled off. Also, Black Mask fits in really well with the Nolanverse.

Have we decided on an actress to play Catwoman yet?

Touche on the Ra's Al Ghoul thing. You're right in that a lot of people may not have been familiar with him (or Ducard, the character he was combined with).

Making the mask look like a skull might not play well, but a black mask of some sort might be kinda interesting. I really liked the mask Tom Cruise wore in Vanilla Sky. Something like that, which is meant to look like the face of the actor, but that's lifeless and haunting would really be incredible. It would be interesting to have the police hunting Batman and Black Mask going after Wayne, not giving him any shelter.

One thing that should be said: do not do the original origin story on Black Mask. He was dropped on his head as a baby and attacked by a raccoon as a child. I don't know about you, but I'd be laughing so hard in the movie I might be asked to leave. Maybe have him born with some malformation of the face.

As for Catwoman, I threw out some really good actresses (Tilda Swinton, Cate Blanchett, Hilary Swank, and Helena Bonham Carter) that I've not really heard back on yet.

First of all, do we know for sure that there is only going to be one more Nolan Batman?

I'm really kind of surprised that they didn't introduce the next villain in some way (unless they were planning on continuing with the Joker and Two-Face). I think Catwoman could work as a secondary character/villain, but I agree with twistedmosaic that she would do little to really advance the story other than provide a female presence.
My vote is for Rose McGowan.
-----Added 29/7/2008 at 07 : 22 : 49-----
Definitely no to Cate and Hilary, but Helena could be a very excellent choice. I still like the idea of Rose, though.

The film companies would hire a cleaner to off Nolan if he didn't make another gold-mine Batman film. This thing is shattering records left and right and Warner Bros is making a ton of money off this. TDK had a budget of, what, like $180m? It nearly made that in the first weekend.

I'm personally hoping for a quadrilogy, but a trilogy would be fine.

I really think the next movie will be Act 2. Batman Begins really felt like a prologue, which makes Dark Knight Act 1. The plot feels like it needs more conflict before we can have a resolution.

Rose would be good.

This is exactly what I'm thinking. It's also why Catwoman would be better for part 3 of 4 (or 2 of 3).

Yeah, I think we can agree on that. She's good filler and adds interesting character development, which is what would be needed in Empire Strikes Back, but doesn't really have a place in the finale (unless she has/had been developed in previous films).

Angelina Jolie for Cat Woman?

For real? I have not enjoyed her in a single film I have seen of hers. And I will go out on a limb for this one - I don't find her very attractive. I pass by hundreds of women a day on the street who look far superior to her.

I completely agree. However, rumor has it that she's already in talks with the studio for the part. :shakehead:

The more I think about it... I think Black Mask would probably fit best as the next major villain, but I don't think we've seen the last of Two-Face.

She's the right age, she oozes sexiness, and she has been good in past movies (Girl, Interrupted, for example). Just throwing a name out there

oozes sexiness? We are going to have to agree to disagree on that one!

that's fine. Watch her when she's on Larry King or Inside the Actor's Studio. Everything about her is sexy I think. You're saying you'd kick her out of bed?