New Joss Whedon Show: Dollhouse - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

guy44 · 10-31-2007, 07:18 PM

Joss Whedon is returning to TV with a new show. Summary: he's developing it with Fox, has seven guaranteed episodes, and it will star Eliza Dushku. Relevant info here.

Quote:

Hear that? It's the sound of Joss Whedon fans around the world freaking the frak out. (And I am one of them!)

I'm thrilled to tell you that just this afternoon, Joss Whedon rang me up to break the news that after a long, Whedonless TV drought, we Buffy fans are finally getting another TV series created by Mr. Whedon himself. Hell. Yeah.

While you scream, hyperventilate and then (hopefully) recover, I will tell you this: The news gets even better.

Whedon's new Fox series, called Dollhouse, stars Miss Eliza Dushku, best known as Faith to you Buffy the Vampire Slayer fans. And, this show isn't just a pilot. It's already been given a seven-episode commitment by Fox. Whoo!

The series, according to Fox, is about "Echo (Eliza Dushku), a young woman who is literally everybody's fantasy. She is one of a group of men and women who can be imprinted with personality packages, including memories, skills, language—even muscle memory—for different assignments. The assignments can be romantic, adventurous, outlandish, uplifting, sexual and/or very illegal. When not imprinted with a personality package, Echo and the others are basically mind-wiped, living like children in a futuristic dorm/lab dubbed the Dollhouse, with no memory of their assignments—or of much else. The show revolves around the childlike Echo's burgeoning self-awareness, and her desire to know who she was before, a desire that begins to seep into her various imprinted personalities and puts her in danger both in the field and in the closely monitored confines of the Dollhouse."

So, how did Dollhouse come about? When will it start given the impending strike? And what are the chances a few Buffy alums might make it onto the show? To find out, read on for my exclusive one-on-one Q&As with creator and executive producer Joss Whedon and star and producer Eliza Dushku. (Pinch me.) You honestly won't believe how fast this all happened, or where the idea first began!

Oh, and P.S. to all you fans of writer/producer Tim Minear (Angel, Wonderfalls, Firefly, Drive). He tells us: "Joss has pathetically begged me to be involved. And I hate to see a slightly younger man weep like a girl. So, I said 'm'kay.' I'll be playing with dolls one way or t'other."

This might be too much goodness to bear, no?!

JOSS WHEDON

So, first of all, congratulations!! I'm freaking out. And thanks for thinking of me for this news.
You're welcome and thank you. I remember last time I saw you on the Office set, you said "Come back to TV." So, it was all you. That's what caused it, so...

Ha! Well, thank you for doing this for me.
Yes, that's going to be the poster. "Dollhouse: It's for Kristin."

I love that you are reuniting with Ms. Eliza Dushku.
I know. How 'bout that?

Can you tell me how this all came about?
Through a rather time-honored tradition called "lunch." Eliza had her deal with Fox, and we went to lunch, as we sometimes do, to talk about her career and what her next step should be. Like, do I know writers, and what was the best way to protect herself, and what type of show. Eliza and I do this sometimes, because she's a friend and a great talent, and that's easily misused. She was trying to protect herself, and I was trying to get a free lunch. In the middle of lunch, I came up with the idea of this show and the title by accident.

Tell me this isn't that easy for you…that it just came to you in between bites.
I went to the bathroom and came back, and said "I figured it out," so there it is. It took longer than between bites. It came so organically through our conversation, and what I know she is capable of, and what she was talking about and what people were expecting of her. It just kinda happened, and when it happens like that and it has a title—that's a big deal, if it has a title, you can't just turn your back on it. So, I told her, and she freaked out, and I told her I was busy with these films I am trying to setup, but Fox is interested, and Fox said let's do seven episodes instead of a pilot and here I am.

So, you have a seven-episode commitment?
Yeah.

In your own words, how would you describe Dollhouse?
The idea is those with the money or connections can access this secret highly illegal facility where they can basically fulfill their greatest fantasies, and most people assume that means sex and on an occasion it does because that is a lot of people's fantasies, but it's basically scenarios. They can basically reenact scenarios of romance, adventure or anything perfectly, because they become the person that you want them to be—they become that person. They don't act like that person, they are not a robot pretending, they become that person, and then they forget all about it. The problem is the character of Echo, Eliza Dushku's character, stops forgetting. She doesn't completely remember, but she does realize she is a person, and that she might have been a person before she did this, and she doesn't know what that is.

Do you feel like this is a very different role for Eliza, or do you feel there are some commonalities with her Buffy or Tru Calling roles?
Every now and then she will be called upon to kick ass because one of the many personalities she can get downloaded with is sort of a La Femme Nikita—she can be the best of whatever she does and that includes sweat work—and whatever she is hired for and she isn't harmed, and the company isn't exposed, they don't really care what it is. Some of her jobs are sweet and uplifting, but yeah, sometimes she'll be a sweet girl, others she will be that down-home Eliza thing—go Soxs—and sometimes she will be completely elegant, completely naive, completely helpless. She could be a neuroscientist, she could be ballroom dancing, she could be doing absolutely anything.

The thing about Eliza is that she has a lot of colors to play like most good actresses, but Eliza has kinda gotten pigeonholed. I see those big eyes, and I see the innocence they can play, the decency that is in them and the way that we can refer, and that isn't just hey, I'm the tough girl. There's much more there.

Can I ask you, why the decision to return to television now? Do you feel like you are finally ready to dig back in?
I have to say when they told me seven, part of me was like tired, scared…basically because I haven't been in that world, and I have children, and I don't like to not be around them, which is problematic. But the fact is, it was also somebody saying we trust that you can tell this story, and we love this story, so go and tell it. That's a damn boat of confidence. That's a grownup license fee, it was a big commitment, and they weren't afraid at any point. My experience with the movies hasn't gone quite as well. It isn't terrible to hear yes, instead of the other thing.

In terms of TV, I have tried to be very clear that there's nothing about TV that I don't love. I mean, I've always loved movies, and I still want to make movies—movies are cool, but TV has things that movies never have. The ability to really just delve into something and take it apart endlessly which I adore. It's very organic.

I went home to my wife, and we've been talking about doing lower-budget movies and not being beholden by these tent-pole things that I couldn't get off the ground, and I said "Honey, I accidentally created this Fox show," and she said great. She completely got it because it was completely organic. It was the next thing—you couldn't deny it. When an idea comes that fast and that fully you don't ever say no.

The bathroom trip that changed Joss Whedon's life.
[Laughs] I hate to say it, but occasionally there have been some inspirational bathroom trips. Or if I am at a restaurant with the writers, and they go, and when they come back and have figured it out. I think it's just getting a moment to yourself. Though, we have to stress it's not the act of going to the bathroom…that's not good! That's not what it is.

I wanted to ask about the timing of this. This is being announced a day or two before the writers strike. How will this affect the show?
All of this happened before the strike. They had to make my deal, and you can't say anything until the deal is done. Eliza has been sitting on this for a month, and it all happened in a week. We had lunch, and a few days later I wrote a treatment, and then I wrote an episode guide, a pilot outline and even a poster. I PhotoShopped a poster one night. A couple days after that I went to Fox, and a couple days after they gave us the seven. Eliza and I were dying to get onto the Internet or do something, and everyone was like, there's no deal yet so you can't say anything. So, by the time comes now, when they finally close the deal, there is no more writing involved.

Wait, what? You mean all seven scripts have been written?
No, no—are you kidding? I didn't spend that much time in the bathroom. All seven scripts have been pitched, all stories have been pitched.

So, if the strike were to take place, it would delay the project…
This would delay everything. This is certainly no exception to anything. The strike has to happen. I wish it didn't, but it has to, and it has to go on for as long as it has to. When that is done, this will start and a few months after that, we will be filming. If there were no strike, we would be looking at something like February.

So you support the strike?
I will be busy picketing. I support the guild, and I think what we are doing is unfortunate, but necessary, and that means I don't get to have my fun but that isn't the point. It is classic for me, by the way, to be going, "Yes! New show! With Eliza!" But...Strike.

This will give your fans a light at the end of the tunnel in the event of a strike.
If they feel they are getting comfortable with their routine of reality television let them know about this. It's going to be really cool. It is freaking nuts to be doing a show with Eliza, but it just feels great.

Do you think any Buffy people might come on the show or do you think you are going to try to separate?
I think it's important to separate, but if you have somebody who can do the job that is the person you should hire. When it comes to the first flush, I think it's important to be a step forward, and not a reunion. We aren't playing games. I never rule anybody out, but my first instinct is to try out new people because it is me and Eliza.

I have to tell you this is like Christmas for Buffy fans. They have been waiting for you to come back to television so we have this news tonight, and we have your Office episode tomorrow night, it's like this perfect storm of a Whedonverse holiday.
If it was six more things, it would be Chanukah. I'll work on that.

ELIZA DUSHKU

Congrats on the show—this is so exciting. First off, how did it come about?
It was the best scenario. Basically, I went in with Peter [Chernin] and all the heads over at Fox, and they really honestly and really confidently told me that they wanted me to come in as a producer and an actress. They told me to bring them the material that in my heart, I wanted to do.

So, I sat on it for a couple of weeks, and I knew that Joss was working on other things, and his Wonder Woman stuff, but he's been a friend since I moved out here, when I was 17. He became my favorite writer/genius, and I've always said I'll follow that guy anywhere. So, I called him just to have coffee, and talk about life and what I was going to do with this deal. And we got to talking. He just gets women, which is the most amazing thing. He gets them, and I think that that was clear from all his past things, from Buffy.

He can use the science fiction, and he can use these metaphors or exaggerations—but he gets women, and he gets people. He gets down to the real human emotion and the real beating heart.

So, we talked about life, and we were telling each other crazy stories about the things we had done in the past time since we had talked, and the Internet and download that thing, and we talked about hunting, and that person with that fetish, and that thing we were trying to do, and that woman we knew, and that fear that we had, and all of the sudden, it was locked in, and the rest was history, and we have this crazy, exciting bomb-ass new show.

Are you already prepping to be Echo?
Yes, I'm already training and getting ready for it. I'll be a different Echo every week, which is great for my ADHD personality, it's truly—the stars aligned in this one, the timing, the people, the creative ability, the potential is really there. I can't wait for the fans to finally hear about it, because I've been asked about it for years, is there going to be a spinoff. Everything happens for a reason, and timing is just right here.

It sounds like you guys developed it together. Can you talk about how you came up with Echo, and the concept of the actual Dollhouse, and not just the show?
We did kind of come up with it together, and that's one of the cool things—I'll be one of the producers of the show and it's eventually kind of a story of my life. I've had kind of a crazy life, traveling around the world with my mother at a young age, going on these crazy trips and adventures, and then being in this business. It is the story of who I am, in this business especially, like the objectification of people, and who people want to make other people into, and people clicking a button and thinking they can make something happen.

We have so much control in this day and age with the Internet and television and what we want and our desires and fantasies and thinking we can make them come true. And all of this, I think, just makes this such a smart concept, because it's all infiltrated in there, and it's part me and it's part the world. It's part people's fantasies, people's demons, their high times, their low times, their hilarious times and in between, mixed with—I gotta have some serious action, because that's just, like, I realized that a procedural show isn't right for me. I need to be jumping out of a car or kicking butt or making love.

It sounds like you'll get to do all of that with this. Another thing I liked about the pitch was that there's a whole bunch of you, you're all in this dollhouse, and you're all trying to find each other one way or the other. Can you talk about other parts, other casting? Anything like that yet?
Yeah, we have, and it's nice, again, that we kind of have similar tastes. I think that we all know, we can kind of see it and feel it and taste it, and it's just kind of about putting it together, and getting the orchestra and getting all the variables into the equation. But we're both major fans of some of the previous people that we've worked with in other shows, and we also have writers from Buffy that are going to be coming over and joining us. It's just going to be—it's gonna be fun to watch I think. Because I think people are going to be excited at what we have.

Everyone is super-super-excited I guarantee you; I squealed.
The Red Sox won the World Series again, and things are good—I have my boy [Brad Penny], and he's going to be playing baseball for Fox next year, and I'll be here shooting my show for Fox. It's all gonna be good.

Other stories here and here and here and here.

Well, I'm still waiting for Ripper to come to be. And would have loved to see a Faith spin-off, which I assume is completely dead. Of course, my truest desire would have been an announcement of a new Firefly project, preferably the resumption of the show, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't very, very excited. This season has been an almost complete flop of new shows, Veronica Mars isn't around anymore, and Battlestar Galactica will soon begin its final season. Joss to the rescue...

Willravel · 10-31-2007, 07:22 PM

OH THAT'S WHAT HE'S WORKING ON. Everyone said it was Firefly.

I'll watch.

squeeeb · 10-31-2007, 08:51 PM

i bet it's gonna be really good and get cancelled after the 7th show, or it will suck and last 3 seasons....i'll still watch it...

Charlatan · 11-01-2007, 05:08 AM

Bring it on...

Redlemon · 11-01-2007, 05:52 AM

The title got my heart racing, but I had a little bit of dread, which came true when I saw that three letter word: FOX. There's a very common phrase on the TiVo boards, which is "Burn in hell, FOX!". There have been far too many quality programs dumped too early by that network.

guthmund · 11-01-2007, 11:59 AM

Same here. The Fox connection has me a bit leery...

That and Eliza Dushku.

Frosstbyte · 11-01-2007, 02:12 PM

I have full confidence in a Whedon-Dushku alliance, but I cannot BELIEVE he's entrusting another creation to the fuckstains at Fox. The potential brilliance of the show is outweighed only by the potentially immediate cancellation order from a network that hates shows that don't have immediate returns. With our luck, they'll show episode 7 first opposite the Super Bowl (yeah I know Fox is showing the SB, but they'll figure it out) and then wonder why people don't keep tuning in and why they don't have an immediate audience.

I'm not sure what other network would be any better, but Fox's track record is...shall we say...not good.

xxxafterglow · 11-01-2007, 02:21 PM

Thanks for posting that! Funny, I was just reading through the very thorough Buffy episode caps on Wikipedia.

I'm a bit leery of Eliza as well but hopefully she has expanded her acting range.

Still, something to look forward to... that and buying the big Buffy DVD set.

Willow: I think we have Dracula factoids.
Xander: Like any of that's enough to fight the Dark Master (beat as everyone looks at him) bator
...........
Xander: I think you're drawing a lot of crazy conclusions about the Unholy Prince! (beat as everyone looks at him) bator

hagatha · 11-02-2007, 08:08 AM

I will definitely check it out, but part of me feels like maybe Joss's best days are behind him. And am I the only one who thinks Eliza's acting skills are pretty much unidimensional?

flat5 · 11-20-2007, 04:46 PM

blahblah454 · 11-24-2007, 11:13 AM

I don't know who Eliza Dushku is so I google imaged her... one of the first things to come up was some fat dude fucking a chick, not what I wanted to see.

I have only seen a few episodes of buffy but I loved Firefly.

LuxoDave · 11-24-2007, 03:18 PM

I automatically season pass all Joss Whedon shows.

El Pollo · 11-27-2007, 06:08 PM

I'm not too crazy about the concept for the show. But then again, I wasn't crazy about the concepts for Buffy, Angel, and Firefly and I wuickly fell in love with those shows. So, yeah, I'll be checking it out.

guy44 · 05-15-2008, 04:52 PM

So I thought it was time for an omnibus update on Dollhouse as more info about the show has been released lately:

1. It will begin in January, on Monday nights, as the show leading in to 24. It has a 13-episode buy already. Also, Fox is desperate to reinvigorate the moribund TV industry, and will therefore air Dollhouse (as well as next season's other major-name series on Fox, J.J. Abrams' Fringe) with half as many commercials as other shows get.

2. The show has been cast (actually, they just finished shooting the pilot). Here is the cast list:

Eliza Dushku
Tahmoh Penikett
Fran Kranz
Dichen Lachman
Enver Gjokaj
Olivia Williams
Harry J. Lennix

And Joss Whedon also announced on Whedonesque who the first recurring roles will be played by:

Amy Acker
Miracle Laurie

You may remember Tahmoh Penikett from his role as Helo in Battlestar Galactica, Olivia Williams from Rushmore (and being incredibly beautiful), Harry Lennix from the last two Matrix movies, and Amy Acker from Joss Whedon's Angel, of course.

3. Here are the first publicity stills:

4. The Trailer!

5. OK, there is no 5. I'm just really, really excited after seeing that trailer. This looks like it'll be Joss Whedon-ey heaven, at least until Fox tries to throw Paris Hilton in as a guest star or something.

MexicanOnABike · 05-15-2008, 06:51 PM

looks interesting. but the video is dead.

sapiens · 05-15-2008, 07:24 PM

I enjoy Joss Whedon shows, especially Firefly, but I am having trouble getting excited by a show starring Eliza Dushku. I have not been impressed by her acting in the shows and movies I have seen her in.

guy44 · 05-15-2008, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MexicanOnABike

looks interesting. but the video is dead.

Yeah, apparently Fox didn't want that video out quite so early. Lucky for us, though, the internets rulz all!

Check out the trailer

Dailymotion - Dollhouse Trailer, a video from kyoto. dollhouse, joss, whedon, eliza, studios

.

jewels · 05-16-2008, 03:23 AM

The trailer reminds me of The Pretender.

Redlemon · 05-16-2008, 04:59 AM

m0rpheus · 05-19-2008, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guy44

Joss Whedon is returning to TV with a new show. Summary: he's developing it with Fox, has seven guaranteed episodes, and it will star Eliza Dushku.

Joss Whedon and Fox. Two words (okay three) that scare the living shit out of me. Why? Because odds are good I'm going to watch Dollhouse, and love it. Then Fox will cancel it.

guthmund · 05-19-2008, 01:34 PM

Christ...

Dushku and Helo?

/bangs head against the desk

Maybe not so bad...I don't like SMG too much either and yet I kind of dig Buffy....

guy44 · 02-14-2009, 01:00 PM

Dollhouse finally premiered last night. My early thoughts: Good, not great.

The Bad:

Whedon's signature dialogue was missing, which may or may not be a feature instead of a bug. I guess we'll see.

The show was very...slick. In that overproduced, Fox Network kind of way. Which worries me, because I know how Fox likes to have all their shows be shiny and shallow and that Whedon likes them to be, you know, good, and that there's already been substantial disagreement between the two. Hopefully, the show thrives anyway and Whedon will be allowed to do whatever he wants but with a massive budget.

Eliza Dushku was alright, but I need to see more out of her in the future. This show was literally created to display her acting chops, and she needs to step it up a bit. That said, Whedon's gotten fantastic performances out of some pretty shitty actors (Sarah Michelle Gellar, anyone?), so it isn't out of the realm of possibility.

I hate straight-jacketing shows to be more "stand-alone" and less serialized. I'm a massive geek, and I love to delve into a huge and uncompromisingly intimidating mythology, which is part of why I love Joss Whedon shows. No human being could pick up Angel or Buffy smoothly by season 3 or 4. Fox clearly hates this, and may force the show to be too one-off for my tastes.

The Good:

The show was action-packed, sexy, complex and complicated, touched upon a huge range of moral and ethical questions, and still managed to get out an ass-load of exposition. In other words, it many ways it was a typical Whedon series premiere.

Whedon's shows tend to get better and better over the first 5 or 6 episodes, as he has to explain the basics of his always complicated fictional universe less-and-less. Huge amounts of exposition is the curse of sci-fi/fantasy TV, and things tend to look much better after that initial awkward phase is dealt with.

The set looks simply incredible.

Olivia Williams and Amy Acker. Oh yes.

The show is clearly bursting at the seams with possibility. The cast is really, really talented (Harry Lennox, anyone) and the show's very premise allows it to stretch in many different interesting directions. So long as Fox doesn't, you know, do anything to it, and enough people watch despite Fox putting into a Friday death slot, Dollhouse could really go places.

I can't wait to see what happens from here.

P.S. Dollhouse, Friday Night Lights, Psych, Battlestar Galactica, and Terminator: TSCC are all on Friday nights right now. How come Fridays have better shows than the rest of the week put together?

Reese · 02-14-2009, 04:14 PM

I highly doubt Joss Whedon will let this become a bunch of stand alone episodes. I thought the first episode was too stand alone-ish but hopefully it was just to give you an idea of what they do at the dollhouse. We'll see what the next few episodes bring... Apparently it didn't have many viewers.. sad because it does have potential.

Willravel · 02-14-2009, 05:33 PM

Despite what I see as a strong and engaging format, the Dollhouse series premier had really bad ratings.
'Dollhouse' premieres soft; 'Terminator' dives--The Live Feed

It's frustrating.

Charlatan · 02-14-2009, 06:35 PM

I've heard that the series gets rolling at ep 5 (written by Wedon).

fresnelly · 02-14-2009, 07:48 PM

It put me to mind of shows like Charlie's Angels and Remington Steele but I enjoyed it well enough and will keep watching. Initially it had a Cinemax Soft-Core kind of vibe (how many times will she be going under cover as a stripper, prosititute, model, portrait-photograher I wonder...) but then gained its edge over the course of the Kidnapping plotline.

You could also see the groundwork being laid for the series arc so I look forward to that.

Frosstbyte · 02-14-2009, 07:53 PM

Having just re-watched the beginning of BtVS, I can't say Dollhouse was any better or any worse, really. It has potential, for sure, and could make for an interesting series, but....9 PM on Friday night is fucking murder. I hope they take into consideration the number of people who watch it on demand and on DVR at this point, too, since I imagine it'll get a lot of viewership from people that way.

Just gonna have to see....

guy44 · 02-14-2009, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fresnelly

Initially it had a Cinemax Soft-Core kind of vibe (how many times will she be going under cover as a stripper, prosititute, model, portrait-photograher I wonder...)

Joss Whedon is famously a strong feminist and has been quoted as saying that he's not going to shy away from the reality that an "active" would likely be hired out often for sexual reasons. He also said he's going to deal head-on with all that implies. I guess we'll see.

m0rpheus · 02-15-2009, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willravel

Despite what I see as a strong and engaging format, the Dollhouse series premier had really bad ratings.
'Dollhouse' premieres soft; 'Terminator' dives--The Live Feed

It's frustrating.

Maybe it would have helped if they even advertised it was coming. Hell I forgot it was starting this week. Shit. Hopefully I can find the first episode before next week.

guy44 · 02-15-2009, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m0rpheus

Maybe it would have helped if they even advertised it was coming. Hell I forgot it was starting this week. Shit. Hopefully I can find the first episode before next week.

Hulu - Dollhouse: Ghost - Watch the full episode now.

Frosstbyte · 02-15-2009, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m0rpheus

Maybe it would have helped if they even advertised it was coming. Hell I forgot it was starting this week. Shit. Hopefully I can find the first episode before next week.

You must not have watched Fox at all this week. There were Dollhouse/Terminator commercials on during almost every commercial break.

m0rpheus · 02-16-2009, 04:57 PM

I was busy last week and didn't really watch that much TV but before last week? Nothin I can remember.

exizldelfuego · 02-17-2009, 04:03 PM

Whoa, Dichen Lachman? Talk about exotic…how’ve I never heard of her?

777 · 02-19-2009, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willravel

Despite what I see as a strong and engaging format, the Dollhouse series premier had really bad ratings.
'Dollhouse' premieres soft; 'Terminator' dives--The Live Feed

It's frustrating.

Well, it's a tough fight for ratings when the show is on Friday nights...

Frosstbyte · 02-24-2009, 10:48 AM

I think the problem with this show so far is that it's all potential and little payoff. The writing has been very weak compared to previous Whedon outings and Dushku hasn't been on her game. These facts have only been emphasized by the fact that I'm currently re-watching Buffy. It's apparent that Whedon can get good performances out of her, but so far there just hasn't been any meat or spunk to the character. For that matter, basically none of the characters have had a lot of meat or spunk so far.

As I said, there's a lot of potential, and I'm worried that it's not going to get to develop enough for that potential to turn into something before Fox pulls the plug.

Cynthetiq · 02-24-2009, 11:46 PM

2nd episode was much better than the opener. The mythos is being laid out, and the antagonists are being fleshed out.

It's been interesting but the dialog and whedon writing isn't up to par. I'm game for a while longer and it doesn't interfere with anything else on the Tivo.

guy44 · 02-26-2009, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

2nd episode was much better than the opener. The mythos is being laid out, and the antagonists are being fleshed out.

It's been interesting but the dialog and whedon writing isn't up to par. I'm game for a while longer and it doesn't interfere with anything else on the Tivo.

I agree completely. Whedon shows always had a very unique quality to them, a writing style and (especially) dialogue that seemed to come from another, slightly awesomer and funnier, dimension. For the most part, that quality has been lacking. Of course, it's only 2 eps in, and there was that great line about "4 brothers, none of them Democrats."

I'm still really hopeful.

sapiens · 02-26-2009, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frosstbyte

I think the problem with this show so far is that it's all potential and little payoff. The writing has been very weak compared to previous Whedon outings and Dushku hasn't been on her game. These facts have only been emphasized by the fact that I'm currently re-watching Buffy. It's apparent that Whedon can get good performances out of her, but so far there just hasn't been any meat or spunk to the character. For that matter, basically none of the characters have had a lot of meat or spunk so far.

I've never been impressed by Dushku's acting, even on Buffy. She doesn't have much range. Her role on Dollhouse seems like it would be better suited for a good character actor. I did like the second episodemore than the first, but that may have been because Dushku didn't have much dialogue.

Another thought: Dushku's character is effectively a slave who gets attacked and raped nearly every episode. A bit disturbing.

SecretMethod70 · 02-27-2009, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sapiens

Another thought: Dushku's character is effectively a slave who gets attacked and raped nearly every episode. A bit disturbing.

This is my main problem with the show. It's not that I have a problem watching disturbing stories. One of my favorite movies (Irréversible) has a terribly raw and gut-wrenching 9 minute long rape scene with no cuts. The difference between that and the scenes in Dollhouse is that Irréversible respects the gravity of what it is showing. Watching someone who has no real control over their actions get pimped out and raped and then have their knowledge of the event wiped away should not be filmed as a "sexy" scene. There is nothing "sexy" about watching Dushku's character have sex with these clients. She's very attractive, and under any other circumstances I'd certainly enjoy watching her be scantily dressed and in sex scenes. But these scenes should not be filmed like any standard old TV sex scene - and they are. So what's disturbing to me is not the subject manner, but the presentation - because that presentation has little to no relevance to what's going on.

Cynthetiq · 02-27-2009, 11:34 AM

While I agree with you for the most part, maybe that's what will fuel her to turn into another kind of Alpha. She's obviously gaining some sort of recognition as to something isn't right.

Whedon isn't an idiot, I'm sure he's going to use that device in some manner to turn and burn the character.

Just like she's having flashbacks to the past, maybe she's going to have flashbacks to clients. And get fucking pissed off....

Note that Amy Acker is just a guest star... maybe she's going to get knocked off. I also can't see her sticking around with all that make up appliances every week, but who knows, it worked for ST: TNG and DS9

10-31-2007, 08:51 PM	#3 (permalink)
squeeeb part of the problem Location: hic et ubique	i bet it's gonna be really good and get cancelled after the 7th show, or it will suck and last 3 seasons....i'll still watch it... __________________ onward to mayhem!

11-01-2007, 05:08 AM	#4 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Bring it on... __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

11-01-2007, 05:52 AM	#5 (permalink)
Redlemon Devoted Donor Location: New England	The title got my heart racing, but I had a little bit of dread, which came true when I saw that three letter word: FOX. There's a very common phrase on the TiVo boards, which is "Burn in hell, FOX!". There have been far too many quality programs dumped too early by that network. __________________ I can't read your signature. Sorry.

11-01-2007, 11:59 AM	#6 (permalink)
guthmund big damn hero	Same here. The Fox connection has me a bit leery... That and Eliza Dushku. __________________ No signature. None. Seriously.

11-01-2007, 02:21 PM	#8 (permalink)
xxxafterglow Crazy Location: Berlin	Thanks for posting that! Funny, I was just reading through the very thorough Buffy episode caps on Wikipedia. I'm a bit leery of Eliza as well but hopefully she has expanded her acting range. Still, something to look forward to... that and buying the big Buffy DVD set. Willow: I think we have Dracula factoids. Xander: Like any of that's enough to fight the Dark Master (beat as everyone looks at him) bator ........... Xander: I think you're drawing a lot of crazy conclusions about the Unholy Prince! (beat as everyone looks at him) bator __________________ Uh huh her. Last edited by xxxafterglow; 11-01-2007 at 02:28 PM..

10-31-2007, 07:22 PM	#2 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	OH THAT'S WHAT HE'S WORKING ON. Everyone said it was Firefly. I'll watch.

11-01-2007, 02:12 PM	#7 (permalink)
Frosstbyte Winter is Coming Location: The North	I have full confidence in a Whedon-Dushku alliance, but I cannot BELIEVE he's entrusting another creation to the fuckstains at Fox. The potential brilliance of the show is outweighed only by the potentially immediate cancellation order from a network that hates shows that don't have immediate returns. With our luck, they'll show episode 7 first opposite the Super Bowl (yeah I know Fox is showing the SB, but they'll figure it out) and then wonder why people don't keep tuning in and why they don't have an immediate audience. I'm not sure what other network would be any better, but Fox's track record is...shall we say...not good.

11-02-2007, 08:08 AM	#9 (permalink)
hagatha Addict	I will definitely check it out, but part of me feels like maybe Joss's best days are behind him. And am I the only one who thinks Eliza's acting skills are pretty much unidimensional? __________________ Thats the last time I trust the strangest people I ever met....H. Simpson

11-20-2007, 04:46 PM	#10 (permalink)
flat5 Very Insignificant Pawn Location: Amsterdam, NL	.. Last edited by flat5; 05-03-2008 at 01:05 AM..

11-24-2007, 11:13 AM	#11 (permalink)
blahblah454 Let's put a smile on that face Location: On the road...	I don't know who Eliza Dushku is so I google imaged her... one of the first things to come up was some fat dude fucking a chick, not what I wanted to see. I have only seen a few episodes of buffy but I loved Firefly.

11-24-2007, 03:18 PM	#12 (permalink)
LuxoDave Upright	I automatically season pass all Joss Whedon shows.

11-27-2007, 06:08 PM	#13 (permalink)
El Pollo Insane Location: Austin, TX	I'm not too crazy about the concept for the show. But then again, I wasn't crazy about the concepts for Buffy, Angel, and Firefly and I wuickly fell in love with those shows. So, yeah, I'll be checking it out.

05-15-2008, 04:52 PM	#14 (permalink)
guy44 Somnabulist Location: corner of No and Where	So I thought it was time for an omnibus update on Dollhouse as more info about the show has been released lately: 1. It will begin in January, on Monday nights, as the show leading in to 24. It has a 13-episode buy already. Also, Fox is desperate to reinvigorate the moribund TV industry, and will therefore air Dollhouse (as well as next season's other major-name series on Fox, J.J. Abrams' Fringe) with half as many commercials as other shows get. 2. The show has been cast (actually, they just finished shooting the pilot). Here is the cast list: Eliza Dushku Tahmoh Penikett Fran Kranz Dichen Lachman Enver Gjokaj Olivia Williams Harry J. Lennix And Joss Whedon also announced on Whedonesque who the first recurring roles will be played by: Amy Acker Miracle Laurie You may remember Tahmoh Penikett from his role as Helo in Battlestar Galactica, Olivia Williams from Rushmore (and being incredibly beautiful), Harry Lennix from the last two Matrix movies, and Amy Acker from Joss Whedon's Angel, of course. 3. Here are the first publicity stills: 4. The Trailer! 5. OK, there is no 5. I'm just really, really excited after seeing that trailer. This looks like it'll be Joss Whedon-ey heaven, at least until Fox tries to throw Paris Hilton in as a guest star or something. __________________ "You have reached Ritual Sacrifice. For goats press one, or say 'goats.'"

05-15-2008, 06:51 PM	#15 (permalink)
MexicanOnABike Location: up north	looks interesting. but the video is dead. __________________ - Movie Reviews - Ratings-

05-15-2008, 07:24 PM	#16 (permalink)
sapiens Junkie Location: Some place windy	I enjoy Joss Whedon shows, especially Firefly, but I am having trouble getting excited by a show starring Eliza Dushku. I have not been impressed by her acting in the shows and movies I have seen her in.

05-16-2008, 03:23 AM	#18 (permalink)
jewels Eponymous Location: Central Central Florida	The trailer reminds me of The Pretender. __________________ We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess. Mark Twain

05-16-2008, 04:59 AM	#19 (permalink)
Redlemon Devoted Donor Location: New England	__________________ I can't read your signature. Sorry.

05-19-2008, 01:34 PM	#21 (permalink)
guthmund big damn hero	Christ... Dushku and Helo? /bangs head against the desk Maybe not so bad...I don't like SMG too much either and yet I kind of dig Buffy.... __________________ No signature. None. Seriously.

02-14-2009, 01:00 PM	#22 (permalink)
guy44 Somnabulist Location: corner of No and Where	Dollhouse finally premiered last night. My early thoughts: Good, not great. The Bad: Whedon's signature dialogue was missing, which may or may not be a feature instead of a bug. I guess we'll see. The show was very...slick. In that overproduced, Fox Network kind of way. Which worries me, because I know how Fox likes to have all their shows be shiny and shallow and that Whedon likes them to be, you know, good, and that there's already been substantial disagreement between the two. Hopefully, the show thrives anyway and Whedon will be allowed to do whatever he wants but with a massive budget. Eliza Dushku was alright, but I need to see more out of her in the future. This show was literally created to display her acting chops, and she needs to step it up a bit. That said, Whedon's gotten fantastic performances out of some pretty shitty actors (Sarah Michelle Gellar, anyone?), so it isn't out of the realm of possibility. I hate straight-jacketing shows to be more "stand-alone" and less serialized. I'm a massive geek, and I love to delve into a huge and uncompromisingly intimidating mythology, which is part of why I love Joss Whedon shows. No human being could pick up Angel or Buffy smoothly by season 3 or 4. Fox clearly hates this, and may force the show to be too one-off for my tastes. The Good: The show was action-packed, sexy, complex and complicated, touched upon a huge range of moral and ethical questions, and still managed to get out an ass-load of exposition. In other words, it many ways it was a typical Whedon series premiere. Whedon's shows tend to get better and better over the first 5 or 6 episodes, as he has to explain the basics of his always complicated fictional universe less-and-less. Huge amounts of exposition is the curse of sci-fi/fantasy TV, and things tend to look much better after that initial awkward phase is dealt with. The set looks simply incredible. Olivia Williams and Amy Acker. Oh yes. The show is clearly bursting at the seams with possibility. The cast is really, really talented (Harry Lennox, anyone) and the show's very premise allows it to stretch in many different interesting directions. So long as Fox doesn't, you know, do anything to it, and enough people watch despite Fox putting into a Friday death slot, Dollhouse could really go places. I can't wait to see what happens from here. P.S. Dollhouse, Friday Night Lights, Psych, Battlestar Galactica, and Terminator: TSCC are all on Friday nights right now. How come Fridays have better shows than the rest of the week put together? __________________ "You have reached Ritual Sacrifice. For goats press one, or say 'goats.'"

02-14-2009, 04:14 PM	#23 (permalink)
Reese Delicious	I highly doubt Joss Whedon will let this become a bunch of stand alone episodes. I thought the first episode was too stand alone-ish but hopefully it was just to give you an idea of what they do at the dollhouse. We'll see what the next few episodes bring... Apparently it didn't have many viewers.. sad because it does have potential. __________________ “It is better to be rich and healthy than poor and sick” - Dave Barry

02-14-2009, 05:33 PM	#24 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Despite what I see as a strong and engaging format, the Dollhouse series premier had really bad ratings. 'Dollhouse' premieres soft; 'Terminator' dives--The Live Feed It's frustrating.

02-14-2009, 06:35 PM	#25 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	I've heard that the series gets rolling at ep 5 (written by Wedon). __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

02-14-2009, 07:48 PM	#26 (permalink)
fresnelly Functionally Appropriate Location: Toronto	It put me to mind of shows like Charlie's Angels and Remington Steele but I enjoyed it well enough and will keep watching. Initially it had a Cinemax Soft-Core kind of vibe (how many times will she be going under cover as a stripper, prosititute, model, portrait-photograher I wonder...) but then gained its edge over the course of the Kidnapping plotline. You could also see the groundwork being laid for the series arc so I look forward to that. __________________ Building an artificial intelligence that appreciates Mozart is easy. Building an A.I. that appreciates a theme restaurant is the real challenge - Kit Roebuck - Nine Planets Without Intelligent Life

02-14-2009, 07:53 PM	#27 (permalink)
Frosstbyte Winter is Coming Location: The North	Having just re-watched the beginning of BtVS, I can't say Dollhouse was any better or any worse, really. It has potential, for sure, and could make for an interesting series, but....9 PM on Friday night is fucking murder. I hope they take into consideration the number of people who watch it on demand and on DVR at this point, too, since I imagine it'll get a lot of viewership from people that way. Just gonna have to see....

02-16-2009, 04:57 PM	#32 (permalink)
m0rpheus bad craziness Location: Guelph, Ontario	I was busy last week and didn't really watch that much TV but before last week? Nothin I can remember. __________________ "it never got weird enough for me." - Hunter S. Thompson

02-17-2009, 04:03 PM	#33 (permalink)
exizldelfuego Crazy Location: Seattle, WA	Whoa, Dichen Lachman? Talk about exotic…how’ve I never heard of her?

02-24-2009, 10:48 AM	#35 (permalink)
Frosstbyte Winter is Coming Location: The North	I think the problem with this show so far is that it's all potential and little payoff. The writing has been very weak compared to previous Whedon outings and Dushku hasn't been on her game. These facts have only been emphasized by the fact that I'm currently re-watching Buffy. It's apparent that Whedon can get good performances out of her, but so far there just hasn't been any meat or spunk to the character. For that matter, basically none of the characters have had a lot of meat or spunk so far. As I said, there's a lot of potential, and I'm worried that it's not going to get to develop enough for that potential to turn into something before Fox pulls the plug.

02-24-2009, 11:46 PM	#36 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	2nd episode was much better than the opener. The mythos is being laid out, and the antagonists are being fleshed out. It's been interesting but the dialog and whedon writing isn't up to par. I'm game for a while longer and it doesn't interfere with anything else on the Tivo. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

02-27-2009, 11:34 AM	#40 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	While I agree with you for the most part, maybe that's what will fuel her to turn into another kind of Alpha. She's obviously gaining some sort of recognition as to something isn't right. Whedon isn't an idiot, I'm sure he's going to use that device in some manner to turn and burn the character. Just like she's having flashbacks to the past, maybe she's going to have flashbacks to clients. And get fucking pissed off.... Note that Amy Acker is just a guest star... maybe she's going to get knocked off. I also can't see her sticking around with all that make up appliances every week, but who knows, it worked for ST: TNG and DS9 __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!