Ok so Locke is going to use the C4 to blow up part of the compound (or maybe the sub?). I don't think Locke wants to leave the island so he is going to sabotage it. Well this episode was good I'm annoyed with what Locke is about to do. Locke is now taking the path of Michael and screwing everyone else over for his own good. Not even Sawyer does that. Also how many more times are they going to pull the Desmond saving Charlie plot? They have set it up so they can keep on doing it but it will get old....

The first thing I though of when they went over the fence was, how are they going to get back over? Locke is a moron at times. I think Jack's dad is in somehow on the Dharma stuff, after watching Wed's show. I really don't like the Charlie/Desmond stuff, let if go for a little.

On a side note, a friend said that TV Guide had some spoilers in it last week. Did anyone read it?? I guess I really don't want to, I just want to watch and see what happens.

Here is what my tv guide says.



Also the previews for next week episode revealed some tidbits of information.

Also, the "next time on" strongly implied that Spoiler: we'll find out why Locke was in a wheelchair, and it will be Ben that reveals that.

I always forget that we don't know how Locke was paralyzed... would be nice if we were finally told instead of being continually teased about it.

Great episode, the ending with Jack making a run for it was wonderfully directed.

-Tamerlain

Someone said Jack's father has ties with 5 others....I come up with Jack, Claire, Sawyer, and Ana Lucia...who am I missing?

It's definitely weird that he has had encounters with so many people on the island...

It's certainly weird inside the "woo woo" mythology of the show, but it's not all that weird from a narrative point of view. Jack is still the "main character" and the nominal leader of the group. Links to Jack are of high narrative value (higher than a link to, say, Rose, for instance). And the easiest way for the writers to link a character to Jack but not have Jack know about the link is to go through Christian.

What's weirder, IMO, is the overtly, well, Christian overtones of the name "Christian Shepherd".

see, i didn't like this episode...yet ANOTHER twist to it...claire/jack possible siblings. oh well...i'll still watch it because it's a good show, i just didn't care for this weeks episode...

Ooh. Good one!

I guess I've come to expect the twists...but this satisfied 2 questions for me. I noticed when Jack's father visited the woman in Australia and asked "to see her"...I suspected at that time he wanted to see Claire. Now I know why. It also somewhat clears the air as to why Christian might be in Australia...he has ties there. I just hope they keep answering some of the older puzzles (hopefully next week they will!)

At the end of last season there was the huge twist where penny found the something important. However, that twist has never been addressed in this season. Do you think they just decided to drop that plot line?

Not a chance they dropped that plot line. I think they're waiting to progress Desmond's ESP powers a little further before they reintroduce Penny.

-Tamerlain

I guess they could still be holding on it. Last episode they reveled it has only been 2 weeks since this season began.

The mystery of why Locke was in a wheelchair is over. I suppose being thrown out of a window and falling 8 stories will break your back.

I am glad Locke blew up the sub because now the others are screwed and might revolt against the leader, Ben!

Do you think that is really Locke's dad in the holding area, or do you think it is another trick? What do you think Locke is going to do, shoot him or get all sappy and say

"Why did you do it dad, why!?!

Having Locke's Dad captured was a great twist because is shows how far reaching the Others' parent organization is. They were able to track down and abduct this slick conman from whoknowswhere just to turn the screws on Locke. Sweet!

One of the themes of the show is the choice of giving into vengance or forgiveness; a decision that Locke must now confront in earnest.

IMO it was an EXCELLENT episode. Best of the season. Maybe better than any since Season 1.

I'm so glad shit's happening again!

I'm thinkin' that Locke's pop is the head honcho of the "others" and him in the holding area is just a ploy

Did he blow up the sub really? We see him inside the sub with the explosives, then the it cuts away. The next time we see Locke he is strolling down the pier, soaking wet as if he had been swimming in his clothes. Then the others show up, there's shouting, machismo... yadda yadda yadda. Then BOOM. Something blows up a few hundred metres away.

Why would Locke have been swimming to plant the bomb? Unless he happened to have a couple magnets there would be no way to attach the bomb securely to the outside of the boat. It would have been far easier to blow it up from the inside.

Theory: he piloted the sub away a few hundred meteres then swam back to the dock and then blew up some random debris to make it appear the sub is gone, when in fact it's just parked down the beach.

After a slow start, this season is kicking ass. I'm so glad that the writers are starting to answer some of the questions instead of just bringing new ones up.

I'm a bit anxious for next week's episode though, since preview said someone dies...and I'm kind of attached to the remaining characters.

Right! You think Desmond finally slips and lets Charlie get away?

I think charlie's the one character who i wouldn't really miss.

Who thinks that locke's dad scammed sawyer's mother?

Charlie is WAY too obvious to be offed. There's no way it'll be him, but that does leave it very unclear who it is going to be. Hurley might be a potential candidate, if only because-while something of a fan favorite-he has little UMPH to add to the main storyline. I'd say Rodrigo Santoro or the newly introduced chick would be likely targets, but they haven't been on the show much for anyone to really care. Alternately, that might be a sufficient amount. If the grave weren't at the Losties' camp, I think I would be putting my money on Juliet, since she seems like she could be ripe to go with no more means of escape from the island.

Overall, a VERY interesting episode this week. Ben continues to be one of the best written and acted TV characters that I have ever seen. Michael Emerson's face and voice are so perfect and expressive. I love watching him work everyone just as he sees fit, and constantly marvel at how much he says with a single look. Note, also, that now Ben does not have to give up Kate, Sayid and Locke because Jack never left the island. Flawless, perfect.

Locke has gone from one of my most to one of my least favorite characters. The rugged, quiet idealist of season 1 has given way to someone very dark and selfish and horrible. As we learn more about him, I can't blame him for being that way, but it's not been a pleasant or particularly entertaining transformation to watch.

I wasn't expecting Locke to know how to pilot a sub, since I would assume it would be a tricky thing to maneuver.

I don't think 1 person could pilot a sub.

I don't think the others will revolt against Ben. Ben has everyone exactly where he wants them.

The person who dies is definitely not Hurly and not Rose. In the preview they showed them burying someone and that someone was a skinny white person wearing jean shorts. I couldn't tell if it was a man or a woman but it did kind of look more like a womans body.

I think Locke's dad is the same man who conned Sawyers parents.

Now we are going to have a new escape plan but this time I bet Juliet and Alex will probably be in on it.

I'm betting we will either have an Alex or Rauseeu episode soon.

I thought it was odd how Alex didn't ask Ben or even Locke any question about her mom, after Sayid told her that "she looked like her" and "I'm sure that's what they told you". I know if my mom was dead and someone that I didn't know told me that I looked like her I would ask my "dad" about it, or the guy that was with the guy who told her. And how come Danielle didn't approach Alex when she saw her?

she is afraid how she will act. She talked about being quite last episode i believe. She told Sayid that she was afraid that she wouldn't even recognize her.

Awesome episode, and I'm happy like everyone else that long-standing questions are finally being answered.

Locke's dad being the one who conned Sawyer's mom is likely, since it fits with the theme of everyone on the island being connected. Will be interesting once those "outside" characters and the ones on the island start to realize the connections.

Locke doesn't seem too... tricky (?) enough to have piloted the sub out to sea and then blown up the dock to make it look like the sub was destroyed. I don't think it fits with his character. He's very one-track-minded once he gets an idea in his head.

Is it just me or do the Others seem like they're becoming easier to get along with? I didn't expect Jack to be buddy-buddy with Ben just because they have a deal. And I certainly didn't expect Ben to agree to release Kate and Sayid.

-Tamerlain

Jack playing nice doesn't seem to fit his personality so far, although Ben agreeing to release Kate and Sayid when he knew full well that John was going to blow the sub up seems par for course IMO.

I'm really intrigued to found out why Locke's dad is on the island. I hadn't even thought of him being the one that conned Sawyer's mom, although it seems very likely given the fact that so many of the characters are interconnected.

Well I can see Jack and Juliet getting along pretty well, they do have a 'thing' going on. Ted also seems a likeable enough guy. I don't think Jack and Ben get along that well though, Jack looked really suspicious leaving Ben's house. He should be too, the only reason Ben agreed to let Sayid and Kate go is because he knew that Locke would blow up the submarine. Notice how he says he'll let them go "as soon as you're off the island." Everything works out for Ben now, Jack, Sayid, Kate, Locke and Juliet stay on the island permanently.

What were the names Locke's dad has used? When they were both mentioned this week, I noted the similarity of them. Are they similar to "Sawyer"?

I think Locke might turn out to be the villian of the show. I know its been thought before.. but the way everything has been playing out, it seems he cares only about the Island. I keep thinking back to the time he touched Walt and Walt freaked.

If the sub was the only way for them to get off the Island, as Ben said, then where did Walt and his dad go? What happened to them? Forgot about that, didn't ya?

They took the Others' power boat. It was small, and the island everyone is on is - presumably - in the middle of the ocean. I don't think that small boat would get Walt and Michael very far and I think they will be back.

There is, however, still Desmond's sail boat. The Others confiscated it from Sayid, Jin and Sun in the last episode last season and - again, presumably - they still have it somewhere.

So now we're down to 1 way off the island. But we have to think Penny (Desmond's girl) will make an appearance soon with the cavalry...

-Tamerlain

It has only been 2 weeks since Michael left. I've heard he is coming back next season.

I don't remember, unfortunately. He seems to be a very slick conman though, I wouldn't be surprised if he used a new identity for all of his victims.

Anthony Cooper and Adam Seward were the two names, if I remember correctly.

Was that Anna Lucia's mother talking to Locke in the hospital?

Seward is pretty close to Sawyer...

I think Charlie is going to die this week. Sun is going to find out that Charlie was the one that kidnapped her not the others and either she or Jin is going to kill him.

I totally forgot about Charlie kidnapping Sun. Your scenario would be an interesting way to tie up that lose end.

-Tamerlain

I thought tonights episode was pretty lame but the ending was good. I hope they aren't really dead. If they are dead then the episode was basically a filler. No plot advancement and no character backstory. This episode reminds me of recap episodes of sitcoms where they bring back stuff from old episodes to create the new episode (like friends thanksgiving episode, ect).

I agree, not exactly a great episode. Nikki and Paulo will never be characters who advance the story, so I don't get why they were the focus of the episode. Pretty morbid if they stay buried, too.

And you ended up being half right about this week's episode - Charlie just didn't end up dead.

-Tamerlain

Remember Locke's warning that things don't tend to stay buried on the island.

NICE! And creepy.

I was pretty "meh" about the episode, but it certainly gave me the creepy crawlies before going to bed.

I liked it a lot. I enjoyed seeing past events from their perspective and the Edgar Allan Poe-tic ending was a great finish. Warreagal is right on. Can you say Telltale Heart?

I was scratching my head the whole time, until the end. What a way to go though, being barried by your "friends". There had to be some reason the show focused on them, but what, what could it be?? I think they'll be back.

Absorbentische:

The scene with Ben and Juliette meant a lot. It showed that the situation with Jack was entirely planned - down to Michael and Walt. It showed that the interest the Others had in Jack was confined to, or at least spurred by his surgical ability. It showed definitively that the Others have no intention of helping the Losties, and instead make complicated plans to manipulate them to get what they want.

Regarding the whole, Locke's dad is the same guy that scammed Saywer's (James Ford's) mother; I would say that we can be 99% certain that he is based on this information I found on the Lostipedia:

Linky

It seems pretty unlikely that a 24 letter anagram just 'slipped in.'

I didn't get Sawyer throwing the diamonds on the two before they put dirt on them. That is not Sawyer! He is a con guy, he lies cheat and steals. Is that really him to throw away 8 million dollars worth of diamonds?

When he emptied them into his hand it did look a little light, like a few were missing. I don't know maybe he was trying to make good with Sun.




Overall I thought this was the worst show of the season

Or maybe it is a sign that some of the losties have really given up hope of going home. After all, those diamonds would only really be valuable on the market...

maybe some of them.... but Saywer has been in the others camp. He knows there is a way on and off the island. Of course he doesnt know about what Locke did, yet.

Sawyer's a con man with a heart of gold wrapped around a left ventricle of pure shit. Nonetheless, I don't think it's out of character for him to leave the dead with the worthless treasure that they (apparently) killed each other for.

Yeah, and actual grave-robbing seems beyond him. I just can't see him picking diamonds out of mostly decomposed flesh.

He might have replaced the diamonds with some cheap jewelry he had been hoarding.

That is awesome :lol:

The Pikki episode was ok. I'm really disappointed that they didn't throw in any small 'wow' moments that pertained to the big story. Maybe they did and we just don't know yet.

I thought the glimpse of Ben and Juliette in the Pearl hatch was a pretty big deal. It shows us that the plan to have Jack operate on Ben was in play from sometime before the middle of the second season. It shows us that Ben didn't have surveillance access to the Swan hatch from the barracks or the Hydra--he had to go to the Pearl to look in on the Losties.

The "wows" in this episode were of the looking-backward variety. The things that we've thought were ill-advised moves by the writer/producers now turn out to have been part of a story we didn't know yet. The way this episode meshed with everything else that's been happening was very, very clever.

Ratbastid... That's a very good point. Ben told Locke that he was coming for him. This episode makes it clear that Jack was Ben's purpose for coming. Now was the French Lady in on it? and is Locke just an easy target for Ben?

It's funny... I'm the last one out of my friends to stay with the show and was almost pushed over the edge by that episode. I thought they'd just come up with a novel way to have an entire "previously on Lost" show, without having to resort to a lame TV special.

But, since reading a few posts, I may have been a little too quick of the mark. The 'Nothing stays buried on this island' remark went totally over my head and I didn't really consider the timeline for some of the other encounters.

It was probably becasue I was still rolling my eyes at the whole having to be travelling at 100 mph down a hill directly at rocks to jump start a van.

i'm enjoying this season and am back to planning my wednesday nights around the show!

I don't understand why they don't move everyone from the beach to the camp, at least they would be protected from the smoke thingy. I hated seeing Jack walk with Juliet and not Kate at the end of the show.

I thought about that too, but I would be worried about the Others coming back. Also, to the regular Lost, the beach represents the best opportunity for being rescued and I imagine they've grown attatched to it. The village is hidden in the scary inland and I imagine the power and water has been cut off or sabotaged.

I wonder where the Others are now?

In the beginning of the episode when Kate's car was being towed away, the song being played was the same song Sayid and Hurley were listening to when they were trying to get a signal from the radio back in season 1 or 2.

Does anyone think Sayid will torture Juliette?

I sure wish I could take credit for noting that quote around here, but my fair bride Grancey pointed it out to me first. If it weren't for her, I'd probably think this show was just "Gilligan's Island" with more people.

After last night's episode, I think she'd kick his ass if he tried.

I'm not convinced Juliette isn't still working with the others. Next weeks episode should be good. I hope we find out some juicy details about the others and where they came from.

I think we should start a pool as to whether Juliette is still working for the
Others. Will the writers take the obvious twist?

My hunch is that one of the Lost will kill her in a rage, only to find out she wasnt working for the Others after all. That sort of guilty act is a common theme among the players.

I do think that she is still working for the others, she is really conniving and plays the head games as well as Ben. And if you all remember in next week's preview it was Saywer not Sayid, that wanted answers and is willing to kill if he doesn't get them.

I hope that Juliette isn't working for the others. I;m looking forward to seeing her conversation with Sayid.

I don't think Juliette is still working for the Others. There's no love lost between her and Ben and now Ben has no hold over her. What can he offer her with the submarine destroyed? It seems to me that she does have a real connection with Jack. On the other hand, she did seem like Ben's right hand man when she visited the Pearl(?) station with Paulo watching and when Jack was a prisoner.

Well, but the question then is: how did the others leave? Did they leave the island at all? Do they have some other way (an underwater tunnel via the Hydra station perhaps?) to the Alcatraz island?

I don't know. Even in that scene, there was friction between them. It was a very well played scene, actually. Elizabeth Mitchell and Michael Emerson are both supremely talented actors, and they play off each other perfectly.

I think the more interesting question is: where did they go? Personally, I think we'll find that they went somewhere else on the main island that we haven't seen yet. I feel fairly confident in saying that The Survivors haven't circumnavigated the island yet since the Sayd/Jin/Sun trip seemed to be an out-and-back to the "camp" with the giant 4-toed foot.

I also think that it's growing more apparent that The Others are also missing some big part of the back story of the island itself.

Juliette could still be playing jack. Perhaps the whole other dissent stuff was all part of the ploy....

Also I was just thinking that the others clearly controlled/had access to the pearl, and all other facilities that we know about except the station from season 2 (the hatch). I'd think they would also have access or control this one. This would suggest that Desmond is really an other.

Well... I think somewhat more saliently, The Others are clearly not a unified whole. Ben may know everything about everything (although his interaction with Locke seems to indicate that on some level he doesn't "get" the island). It was pretty clear that Juliette had never heard of Smokey. I'm not sure one can sensibly say whether "The Others" know the whole story.

Doubtful. We've already seen a flashback episode that covers his whole history with the island and entirely explains his presence.

I thought this until she said the opposite - something like we don't know what it is, but we know it doesn't like our fence. So the playing stupid was another yet layer of strategic lies.

I just recently went to Lostpedia and read about the whispers. I looked at them in the past and always kind of just thought that it was something to do with Psychics.

Now, after reading them again, I'm starting to think they're coming from beyond. It sounds like they're ghosts. Especially when Shannon dies and you hear them, they welcome her and someone says 'hi sis'. Maybe Nikki and Paulo will play a role later.:confused:

Thats true, maybe the guy he was with was an other. That or part of the other group.

I knew it! I didn't want to believe it cause I think Juilett is a totally hottie, but now that she is evil I have to hate her, and I hate that.

One thing that I just don't is how she/they knew about Sayid and more Sawyer killing the people, I'm sure through some type of record about all that of what Sayid did, but how in the world would she know that the day before the plane crashed that Sawyer killed someone. How is that possible?

The symbol on the tree where the meds were located, what did that mean?


I thought the best line in the show was when Sawyer said, "I say we sick our resident Iraqi on her"

It's still too cut-and-dried to say that Juliette is evil. Too easy. I don't buy it.

That show was fantastic! I think she'll be the double agent from here on out. I think she has something for Jack, and doesn't want to ruin that, but she does want to get home, and Ben can do that for her.

BTW, next week looks super awesome from the previews.

Right. She's being manipulated by Ben, obviously. She's not evil--she just wants her life and her sister back, and her last resort is to do whatever Ben says.

Sawyer and Sayid should torture Juliette for a while just to drive Jack over the edge.

Exactly. I don't want to compare her to Michael, but it's the closest example we've already seen. Michael wasn't inherently "evil," he just wanted his son back. Juliette will certainly look evil once the Lost find out she's playing both sides, but she just wants to go home like the rest of them.

Plus the flashbacks show she's not evil. The differences between Juliette in the past and Juliette now are like night and day - there's got to be some good left in her. I think she'll do something redeeming, or I hope so. Would be much more interesting that way than if she sticks with the double-agent ploy.

-Tamerlain

Am I the only who thought that episode revealed a huge segment of what the Others are doing on the island?

Great episode... yea, the jury is still out on Juliette. Not on Ben, though... he's just an evil prick. This episode sunk it in for us.

Well, when we saw Ben, Juliette, and the guy with the eyepatch in that small house, Ben asked eyepatch dude to get information on all the people on the plane that just crashed. Presumably, they used their crafty non-descript abilities and resources to get all the people's backgrounds. If you're looking for a more specific explanation... i don't think you'll be getting one. That would ruin the mystery!

Hell yea they did. So I'm not an expert as to what's been revealed so far, but when Juliette said something along the lines of how the bodies of pregnant women on the island start to treat their babies like "foreign invaders," I took that as a some keen insight. So, maybe this island makes people have some super-immune system or healing abilities, to the extent than women's bodies even consider children in the womb to be viruses? And that's why they brought Juliette in... to get rid of that side-effect of the island?

I find it strange how in season 1, the others were extremely stealthy, mysterious and powerful (physically, like how Ethan almost killed Charlie to get to Claire, and gave Jack a beat down on several occasions), but now in season 3, they seem to be just like everyone else, living on the island and trying to get answers to certain problems, like why pregnant women would not survive the entire pregnancy.

What I found strange is that no one is listening to Sawyer and Sayid.

Everyone knows what they used to be, right? If you had to judge someone's character wouldn't you want the input from an interrogator and a con-man? Seems they'd be super at summing folks up fairly fast. Probably better than a doctor that's been fooled by just about everyone on the island and some of folks off the island, for that matter.

I don't recall, but did they even say what they were doing the were experimenting on pregnant women in the first place? I remember the guy with Juliette's orange juice just gushed over what she had done to her sister, but I don't remember if he mentioned what they were working on in the first place.

Yeah, they pointedly DIDN'T mention that in this episode, did you notice?

Two or three times in this episode it was, "Oh yeah, la di da, and Ethan kidnapped Claire!!!"

Um... Yes. And strung Charlie up from a tree. Anybody remember that?

The whole Ethan-kidnapping story arc happened because LOST was facing early-midseason cancellation, and wanted to be able to wrap the whole thing up in a dozen-twenty episodes. They laid themselves some narrative traps right there, some of which they've unwound brilliantly, and others they're just... ignoring.

I disagree that they seem like everyone else... Juliet seemed almost Chuck Norris like when Kate attacked her with a pool stick. She probably went through quite a bit of training and Ethan probably did too. I'm assuming we'll see how she seperated her shoulder 3 times.

Didn't Rousseau give birth on the island?

Oh! Schnapp!

We know now that Claire wasn't sick from her pregnancy though, she was sick from the implant the Others put in her (remember when Ben said they activated the implant in the flashback at the end of the episode).

So then the island's healing properties causing the immune system to turn on pregnant women must only apply to those who get pregnant on the island. But then that doesn't explain why they kidnapped Claire if she didn't actually need the vaccine. Which in turn doesn't explain why they were injecting her initially, since Rousseau gave birth on the island without suffering consequences.

And now (I've arrived somewhere with my rambling) can we assume that the Others know nothing happens to women who get pregnant off the island, since they know Rousseau isn't dead (or do they)? If they know she isn't dead, then they know that they don't need to protect Claire from anything. Maybe that's why Juliette said that Sayid would kill her if he knew what she had done. Maybe they were just using Claire as a dummy...

Now I'm more confused.

-Tamerlain

They were using Claire as a "Control" subject.

Imagine a pharmecutical company testing the effectiveness of a new pain reliever. They have 100 test subjects total and they give 50 of them the new pill. The other 50 are the Control subjects and they get a placebo. Then the company can confirm that any improvent in the actual subjects not shown in the control group is due to the new pill and not due to other factors.

Regarding Rousseau, either she conceived Alex before coming to the island, or she has the same "understanding" with the Island that Locke does. It's certainly an easy way out for the writers if necessary.

Interesting ideas. I wonder what this holds in store for Sun, then.

Well, it's not hard to dislocate your shoulder. I did it playing ultimate frisbee and after the first time, it becomes much much easier to dislocate. Even doing a stretch in a certain direction can dislocate it. Heh, this is Lost so I'm sure she got some combat training and Ben dislocated her shoulder while fighting in a gladiator match or something.

As for the episode, I completely thought that Juliette was legit beforehand. It must mean that there's another way off the island, maybe the sub wasn't really destroyed? We see an explosion, not the sub exploding and the part in the episode where Jack said "You want to get off the island, that makes you one of us", I immediately thought that Locke wants to stay on the island. So does that mean Locke is one of them? Bernard and Rose also want to stay on the island but they disappeared so they don't count.

I'm curious about the whole, "Can't get off the island thing." I thought after juliet's trial all the others, plus jack, went off to a ship. If you look in episode 9, at roughly 40 minutes right after the sheriff lady tells jack what his tattoo means it shows a shot of a ship, not a submarine, off the island. What's up with that?


Edit:
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/2130/lostaq0.jpg

You'd think they wouldn't need the submarine if they had this thing.

Ooh! Schnapp!!

All this pregnancy! It hadn't even crossed my mind to think about Rousseau and Sun!

(And the Others know that Rousseau's alive. Ben went and got caught by her deliberately so she'd lead him to the Losties.)

Sun's fate will be revealed in her next flashback where we'll find out whether she conceived on the island with Jin or off the island with the bald guy.

Yeah a Sun episode is coming up soon. Next week maybe?

I heard one of the upcoming episodes is going to feature DHARMA as the flashback!

This week is Desmond, the week after is Jin and Sun, than Jack, The DeGroots, Charlie, and than Ben.

I've been having a problem with reading spoilers and then reading the insider scoop of someone who has seen it the day of. I need to cut that out and watch the show without all that. It's just sooo hard. Anyone else have this problem?