How to avoid rape
 

This may have been posted before; but I think it is a good reminder. I know it is for me!

A group of rapists and date rapists in prison were interviewed on what they look for in a potential victim and here are some interesting facts.

1) The first thing men look for in a potential victim is hairstyle.
They are most likely to go after a woman with a ponytail, bun, braid or other hairstyle that can easily be grabbed. They are also likely to go after a woman with long hair. Women with short hair are not common targets.

2) The second thing men look for is clothing. They will look for women whose clothing is easy to remove quickly. Many of them carry scissors around to cut clothing.

3) They also look for women on their cell phone, searching through their purse or doing other activities while walking because they are off and can be easily overpowered.

4) The time of day men are most likely to attack and rape a woman is in the early morning, between 5 and 8:30 a.m.

5) The number one place women are abducted from/attacked at is grocery store parking lots. Number two is office parking lots/garages. Number three is public restrooms.

6) The thing about these men is that they are looking to grab a woman and quickly move her to a second location where they don't have to worry about getting caught.

7) Only 2% said they carried weapons because rape carries a 3-5 year sentence but rape with a weapon is 15-20 years.

8) If you put up any kind of a fight at all, they get discouraged because it only takes a minute or two for them to realize that going after you isn't worth it because it will be time consuming.

9) These men said they would not pick on women who have umbrellas, or other similar objects that can be used from a distance, in their hands.
Keys are not a deterrent because you have to get really close to the attacker to use them as a weapon. So, the idea is to convince these guys you're not worth it.

10) Several defense mechanisms he taught us are: If someone is following behind you on a street or in a garage or with you in an elevator or stairwell, look them in the face and ask them a question, like what time is it, or make general small talk, I can't believe it is so cold out here or we're in for a bad winter. Now you've seen their face and could identify them in a lineup, you lose appeal as a target.

11) If someone is coming toward you, hold out your hands in front of you and yell Stop or Stay back! Most of the rapists this man talked to said they'd leave a woman alone if she yelled or showed that she would not be afraid to fight back. Again, they are looking for an EASY target.

12) If you carry pepper spray (this instructor was a huge advocate of it and carries it with him wherever he goes), yelling I HAVE PEPPER SPRAY and holding it out will be a deterrent.

13) If someone grabs you, you can't beat them with strength but you can by outsmarting them. If you are grabbed around the waist from behind, pinch the attacker either under the arm between the elbow and armpit or in the upper inner thigh -- HARD. One woman in a class this guy taught told him she used the underarm pinch on a guy who was trying to date rape her and was so upset she broke through the skin and tore out muscle strands the guy needed stitches. Try pinching yourself in those places as hard as you can stand it; it hurts.

14) After the initial hit, always go for the groin. I know from a particularly unfortunate experience that if you slap a guy's parts it is extremely painful. You might think that you'll anger the guy and make him want to hurt you more, but the thing these rapists told our instructor is that they want a woman who will not cause a lot of trouble. Start causing trouble, & he's out of there.

15) When the guy puts his hands up to you, grab his first two fingers and bend them back as far as possible with as much pressure pushing down on them as possible. The instructor did it to me without using much pressure, and I ended up on my knees and both knuckles cracked audibly.

16) Of course the things we always hear still apply. Always be aware of your surroundings, take someone with you if you can and if you see any odd behavior, don't dismiss it, go with your instincts. You may feel a little silly at the time, but you'd feel much worse if the guy really was trouble.

Thank you for posting these.

As the friend of two different women who were raped, one who was kidnapped, beaten and cut many times and left to die, i find that i can make a difference in my safety to be comforting.

That and i carry a gun for protection :) My campus is the number one campus for Rape in our city.
It's not difficult to get a pistol liscense and many are small enough for a woman to handle and carry in her purse.
While not for everyone, with some training and education some women might want to give this route some thought for their safety.

Sweet Pea

Im a chick with a .38 special and a pony tail!!! Although I probably dont carry myself in a vunerable way, I do try to make sure I stay in well lit places and always have my keys in my hand on the way to my car.

Isn't it dangerous to keep a gun in your purse? Seems like a good way to arm an otherwise unarmed purse snatcher. Or just a place where you and your attacker have close to even chances of getting to it in time to use it. The female cop in my family wears it in a holster under her shirt when she's off duty, I think.

Oh yeah, and another tip to avoid rape - if somebody has you in that unfortunate position, soiling yourself is a good deterrent.

huh? I never said I kept it in my purse, I just said I had one.

*edit....nevermind somehow I missed sweetpea's post

Supple cow. If i Can, i carry it on my person, aka in a holster under a jacket, i have a small gun, so i can hide it easily . . .

but when i have a dress on . . . i carry it in my purse and when walking out to my car, i keep my hand in my purse and on the gun.

I didn't say it was for everyone . . . but once you've seen your friend almost get killed when she was doing everything right to keep herself safe, it makes you think twice :)


Sweet Pea

If someone grabs you from behind, how is a gun in your purse, or even strapped to your ankle going to help? It seems like a false sense of security to me.

I lived in Upper Manhattan a number of years, my neighborhood itself was safe enough, but it was a 8 block walk from the subway to my apartment, 3 blocks if I cut thru a park to get there, generally pretty late at night, and I was most always by myself. I had pepper spray, in my hand, for the walk home.

The best tip to avoid rape is to not put yourself in that position and always be aware of your surroundings, and walk like you have a purpose, even if you don't have the slightest clue as to where you are. If you think you are being followed, don't go home, always trust your instincts.

Sorry Shani, not you. I was referring to this:

Well, it CAN be a false sense of security, if you think you don't also need to pay just as close attention to yours surroundings and your instincts. But no one who has a gun should just be walking around with their head in the clouds . . . if anything, it makes me pay much closer attention.

I see it as added security, but i am still diligent in keeping safe at all times . . .

:)

Good point about instincts Mal . . . that is the number one thing to keep yourself safe.

Sweet Pea

I'm really not trying to be a troll; I think there are many things women can do to protect themselves. However, I have seen things like this posted on the internet before, and I don't feel that they are very effective. For example, the above quote: Apparently women can't do anything now, because rapists look for women who wear their hair up, wear dresses, and talk on cell phones. I really am not certain, but I believe I might have seen a post similar to the OP before (elsewhere online), and it was not to be taken seriously, but as a statement that there's nothing women *can* do to protect themselves from rapists because it's the *rapists themselves* who need to control their actions.

While I have some problems with things like that list of things women can do to protect themselves, I definitely agree that women can make themselves safer by doing things like being aware of their sorroundings and learning how to defend themselves. I meant no offense to the original poster, or to anyone in this thread; rape is possibly the worst, most violent crime I can imagine, and it should not be taken lightly. But advice like that in the OP seems to be shifting the responsibility to women rather than rapists.

Of course i think rapists should control themselves.

But . . . There will always be that small percentage of people who are not healthy in the mind and take pleasure in the suffering of their victims.

What am i supposed to tell someone who is about to rape me:
"wait, stop, you're Supposed to be controlling yourself and not hurt me" ??

We have to protect oursevelves, even though it is sad that we even have to worry about it i agree with you on that zombie_sympathi.

But lists on how to protect ourselves promotes awareness and are therefore important for merely that reason and also carry good advice.

Sweet Pea

I had to walk from the train station home after work every evening. In the winter months it was dark. I remember every night on my way home I had my route sussed out with different options if ever I was followed. I remember the night my forward planning worked.

I was aware that there was a guy following me. When I was out of the crowd and on a quieter street, he was still there, about half the length of the street behind me and he had picked up his pace. I didn't once look behind me, I knew if I kept my pace steady and turned the corner past some bushes I could sprint to a particular house and hide in an alcove. I did this.. my heart was beating and I thought to myself that it might be really silly if I was only imagining it, and what if the house owners saw me? All doubt was removed when I took a peek and this guy was running, moving from one side of the street to the other.. he was looking for me. I thanked my stars I had this worked out... I wouldn't have been able to do anything if he had caught me, I was a mess!

I appreciate the tips! I will remember them.. especially if someone is following me more closely than the situation above.

Excellent advice seeker!! Thank you for sharing!

Sweet Pea

Carrying a gun would be a bad idea for me. I've had my purse snatched before, and if I'd had a gun, it would have done me no good and would have provided the snatcher with a gun.

The list misses some important things. It assumes the woman is by herself, and that the confrontation is already in progress.

Better than anything on that list is to not be alone in an isolated place in the dark. Travel with a partner, and it doesn't really matter who. Rapists don't like dealing with more than one person. If I stop at 24 Hour fitness and it's dark when I'm going out to my car, you can be damn sure I'm stopping at the front desk and asking for an escort to my car. If it's 8:30 at night, I'm driving to 7-11 rather than walk there. My car is always, without exception, parked in the garage when I'm at home.

Also, it assumes the primary danger is stranger rape. It isn't, aquaintance rape is more common.

If he hits you, even once, leave. He's the kind of man who believes using force on a woman is acceptable.

Don't travel in the same car on your first few dates; drive yourself and meet in a public place, and leave in separate cars.

Make sure someone knows where you're going and who with.

Better yet, on a first date, make it a group date. Whenever my sister goes on a first date with a new guy, it's always a double date with me and Grace.

Don't put yourself in high risk situations, such as getting drunk at a frat party.

Most of all, if a situation makes you feel uncomfortable, get out quickly.

Loverboy and I discussed this a week ago and we couldn't figure out how men succed in raping women unless he immediately knocks them out. I mean Loverboy and I have tried fighting one another once to see if he could hold me down. Despite his strength (he works out regularly and is extremely strong) he couldn't hold me down. My wrists are very small so I always find a way to slip out of his grip and if I get just one hand off the grip it's free to either punch him in the groin or scratch his eyes out.

All in all both his arms and legs are too busy to try and hold me down so I don't get how a rapist can hold a woman down AND get his dick out and stick it in.

Does anyone have some sort of interview with women who've been raped? Because I'd like to hear what they have to say about how the guy succeded in raping them. Where they too afraid to fight back? Did they faint? what? :confused:

Fighting with your boyfriend is quite different than a surprise attack by a stranger. You know that your boyfriend isn't going to hurt you. With a rapist, he's got the element of surprise on his side, plus fear can paralyze a person, you also might just think, that if I just cooperate he 1. won't hurt me, 2. wont kill me.

and also the least reported because it's not always easy to prove. People expect a rapist to be a stranger... Oh you knew his name? You couldn't have been raped, you must have been sending signals to him that you wanted it... That you said no, but you really didn't mean it...

Nancy, my knees were jelly. The fear struck when I knew he was after me. I playfight too, and I win.. but I think it's different because when I fight my friends I know in the back of my mind I am ultimately safe. With my case above, I knew nothing... so my brain turned my knees to jelly...

sweetpea, do you know what the gun laws in NY are? i was actually thinking about it because i have many friends who live in not so good areas and i never feel safe when i go to visit them. for a while i was carrying a hunting knife and the few times i felt that a man was threating my safety just pulling the handle and part of the blade out so he could see seemed to be a good deterent. maybe the gun kinda works the same way..if a possible attacker seems someone armed and calm how likely are they going to be to still attack? one of my male friend taught me how if i needed to i could aim for the groin with the knife. even if i was being restrained.

teh list made me even more nervous because i have really long hair, i jog every morning around 6 am, i always have music in earphones, where i jog theres wooded areas on everyside..ahh...lovely paranoia

anyway thank you for posting teh list sexymama :)

music in your ears, makes you a better targer, because it's breaking the first commandment, you aren't being aware of your surroundings. If someone were to come up on your, you might not hear them, jog with the earphones in one ear only... so that you can at least hear what is going on.

Nancy, I think part of what happens might be that the potential rapist has adrenaline going just as much as the woman does.

I playfight with my boyfriend(s) a lot, or have in the past anyway. As a rule they haven't been able to hold onto me for more than a few seconds and complain that I fight back too hard and hurt them. These men would be unlikely rapists.

However, I once had my auto shop teacher try to rape me and I found that it wasn't quite the same. We had made friends and he was helping me rewire the front end of my car, which took a lot more time than the routine maintenance the class was designed to teach. We were alone in his office after hours, and out of the blue he grabbed me and forced me down on the floor in the classic position of being on my back with my wrists restrained by his hands. When I tried to resist or wriggle out, I found that he had me in a grip of steel and I could see this look in his eyes like he wasn't "himself." He started undoing my pants and that's when I realized he was serious. As many times as I had successfully trounced my boyfriends, I was unable to fight back, not by the usual methods anyway. Here's how I avoided being raped:

When I realized I would have an extremely hard time getting my wrists out of his grasp or resisting in the usual way, I stopped moving and started planning. First of all, I had learned in a self-defense class that if you stop resisting for a bit, it may cause them to relax their grip enough for you to get loose, because they think you've given up. But he didn't. I felt this unbelievable surge of adrenaline rising up within me, and I determined that I would go to any lengths I had to before I was going to let this asshole rape me. I thought fast and decided that I would bite his nose off if I had to, or any other body part that presented itself. But first, I tried psychology. With the rage of a beast rising up inside me, I looked him square in the eyes and said, "I thought we were friends." It worked! His whole look changed, and he embarassedly let go and tried to laugh it off as a joke. I got the fuck out of there, to say the least.

Another time when I successfully used psychology to defend myself is remiscent of Seeker's story. It was late at night and I was walking alone to meet this guy I was seeing at a motel in the bad part of town. The streets were empty. I became aware of three guys walking behind me, and they picked up the pace until they were gaining on me. Then they started making comments, I forget what they said but they were distinctly threatening, I'm sure you can imagine. :rolleyes: They had been following me for a good two blocks and I was almost at the street I was looking for, we'll call it "Seaside." So what I did was, when they were about 5 feet behind me I unexpectedly turned to face them, and asked, "Excuse me, do you know where Seaside street is?" They immediately dropped their threatening attitude and responded by going, "Oh, um, er, yeah, I think it's that next one coming up right there." I thanked them and strode off purposefully while they were thrown off guard. It instantly normalized the situation when I asked for directions, and they didn't know how to handle it. I turned the corner, and as soon as I was behind a building, I ran for my life!

I hope these stories help illustrate that a woman can stop a potential rape by using her head, even when she is overpowered. I'm sure it doesn't work in every situation, but it's important to not give up and decide you're done for. It's also important to not present the appearance of an easy victim - if there's someone walking behind me on the street, the first thing I do is turn and look straight at him so he knows I realize he's there and am paying attention. So far I haven't ever been raped. :thumbsup:

That's excellent advice Squishor, you covered both aquaintence and stranger rape which is something every woman should know.

I know the second I found out I had night classes at school next year I said; "I need the number for safewalk." Though the campus is busy at night, the residency is usually quite quiet. Screams for help would probably be heard, but every female from a college I've talked to says it's better to be on the safe side.

And sweetpea, I can't imagine you carrying a gun...you're such a sweet...pea!! As with pepper spray if you know how to use it, all the more power.

Good thoughts to keep in mind and I appreciate those who told stories. Terrifying stuff - I can only hope that if I'm ever faced with the situation, I'll be able to keep my head on my shoulders. It really is so much more different when you're playing than when threatened with the true thing. Also, I've often wondered about the long hair aspect since I, too, have long hair. It's almost always up in a french twist, but the thought is still makes me a bit wary.

Lead, good for you for taking charge of your own well-being! A lot of the women I knew when I was at university scoffed at safety measures like that because they didn't want to be seen with a lowly idiot security man (who was actually really smart and took his job very seriously). I wonder if this is just small town mentality or if attitudes like this run rampant.

As far as the gun issue, if you are capable of carrying a gun properly and keeping your head firmly out of the clouds, rock on! I've shot plent of the big boys, but never a hand gun and would require myself to take a good safety class prior. I think it's important, though, not to rush into carrying a gun so that you're not a trembling mess if you find yourself in a rough situation.

Good thread. Thank you.

Back when I was in college (early 80s), I had taken a self defense class, and we were told, that if you get into trouble, do not scream help... Yell FIRE or something out of the ordinary. Just yelling help, doesn't seem to do it.

It's a sad world we live in that a woman yelling help would get ignored, but it's true. (I can't recall her name, but there was a much publicized murder in NYC years ago about a woman who was murdered on a street corner and people heard her cries for help and didn't want to get invovled) Think of how many times car alarms have gone off, and people just ignore them.

That makes me ill.

I've heard the "Fire" thing, too, and have always thought it incredibly unfortunate. Personally, I'd be less likely to run towards a fire call than a call for help. I'd help in either situation (and have - gee, it was real fun when the Safeway propane tanks were spouting fire), but the difference between handling the two situations is so vast.

Does anyone have tips for people commuting in the dark on bicycles? I am moving to an apartment that's further from campus next year, down a not-so-well-lit road. I tend to be very aware; I never walk with earphones on, and I constantly keep my eyes moving around me, looking behind and to the sides every 10-20 steps. However, a 25-minute walk down a tree-lined street with no streetlights still intimidates me, and I'm considering getting a bike to make it more efficient and safe.

It was early morning & I headed for work. I knew I shouldn't be walking through town at that hour, but I didn't think I had much choice.
My BF refused to get up at that early hour to drive me (I had no license), buses weren't yet running yet, and I was flat broke & couldn't phone a cab.
The coworker I ususally rode with was on vacation.

I was about halfway to work when something made me look down an alleyway I was passing. It was by a club that had long earlier closed for the night. I saw a young man with a hoodie by a garbage bin. He had the hodie pulled over his head & not much of his face showed. My guts lurched & I knew he was trouble.

I kept marching, I walk very purposefully. Back then I did a lot of walking & I had legs like iron. I had a heavy parka on (it was December) and a backpack on. I was getting overheated, but I kept on.
I glanced back & saw that he had started to follow me. He was three blocks back so I wasn't that concerned. Until I glanced back & saw he was only a block away.
I decided to cross the street. (Its a main thoroughfare, busy in the day but very quiet that time of day.) I thought if he's not up to anything, he'll go straight.
I started to cross thes street and he hollered at me. I turned and told him to F--- off.
He started chasing me.
I reached the other side of the street & he was right beside me. I turned to him. He stopped, and pulled out a huge wad of money. He said "I got money." I don't know if he assumed I was a prostitute, or what.
I still don't know where I got the guts to do this, but I put my hands on my hips, leaned towards hm and said something to the effects of...'hey you f----in bastard, watch what the f--- you are doing and leave me the hell alone. F-- off already!'
His jaw dropped and I turned away,leaving him standing there. I walked into the middle of the street, thinking any car going either way I would stop & get help from. I saw headlights coming, and walked right for them. I could see the guy following slowly out of the corner of my eye.
It was a cab, and I hopped in, explained the situation to him & he drove me the last three blocks to where I work. I got out, shaking & scared, and went in to phone the police. I knew by the time they came, the man would be gone (he was), but I was hoping that maybe if my description matched anyone who someone else may have been suspiscious of, I might luck out & he'd get apprehended.
No luck. The cop joked I should have kneed the guy in the groin & grabbed his cash.
I assume he was stoned & bored & looking for trouble. (The strange man, not the cop.) I told the cop I had the adreneline, most definately, but I was scared he may have had a weapon.
I quit walking after that & put on a few pounds becasue of it. I know I have to get back to what I used to love doing, and get hiking the streets again, but in daylight. I've been saving for a treadmill.
This was probably the most frightening thing that has ever happened to me. I thought I was tough, but this incident has forever changed me, & I didn't even get hurt. I can't imagine what a rape victim goes through the rest of her life.

Aquaintance rape story:

I lost my virginity to rape, when I was 16, by someone I knew. Big vasity football player type, in his own home in the same neighborhood I lived in. After it was over, he kept telling me he knew I liked it. I played along....even made him drive me to the house and invited him in. Then I told my mother ahahahah that little 5'4 woman went to town on a man a full foot taller than her. Then she called his mother.

I know I laugh about it, a lot of women dont. I chose back then not to be his "victim" the rest of my life and I knew if I let it affect me I was letting him win. He died several years later and I when I found out I felt a relief I didnt know it was possible for me to feel.

I did get one thing out of it....during the rape he forced me to give him a bj (of course I'd never done it before) and he told me that was the worst fucking one he'd ever had. I made it a point then to learn how.....I've never heard anything but the opposite since :lol:

I have great sympathy for any woman raped, and my words of advice are.....if you possible, do what I did, dont let the rapist win by making you scared or by having problems with your sex life....you're only damaging yourself in the end. Rape is NOT about sex, its about control.

I suspect you're thinking of Kitty Genovese.

She was attacked and stabbed while walking the 20 feet from her car to her apartment building. The attacker left, and came back five minutes later, and stabbed her a few more times. He left again, and came back some 5 to 10 minutes later, methodically tracked her down as she was trying to get into her own apartment building, raped her, and finished the murder. 38 people saw or heard the assault, but did nothing for 35 minutes. Once the police were called they were there in 3 minutes, but Genovese was already dead.

Is he going all out 100%, not caring whether he hurts you? A rapist doesn't hold back, and doesn't care whether he dislocates your shoulder, cracks some ribs, or leaves bruises all over your face, torso, and thighs.

I'll play fight with Grace sometimes. She is considerably stronger than I am, but she's considerably weaker than the muscular linebacker type.

She has little trouble restraining me, and she's holding back, trying to restrain me without hurting me in any way.

In many cases, yes, the victim is too afraid to fight back.

Sometimes, the attacker subdues his victim by beating her into submission before he gets his dick out.

Sometimes, and I speak from personal experience here, it isn't a matter of fighting back or getting raped, it's a matter of getting raped or fighting back, taking a beating, and then getting raped anyway. Given those two choices, the first is preferable.

Back when the earth was still cooling, we were taught *not* to fight back. I suppose if the rapist had a weapon this would be good advice. If not, this old gal will make as big a ruckus as she can.

way to go shani and squisher!

mal thats a good idea ..the head phone thing..i'll have to try that :) thanks :)

Wow, thank you Mal. :icare: I couldn't believe what the police did (or didn't do). I'd have punched them, not that it would have made the situation any better! God. I am sorry.

Your story reminds me of my incident in New Orleans in spring break 2004. I mentioned it in the "Stupidest things you've ever done" thread... and I still don't think it was a rape, even though a stranger picked me up on Bourbon Street when I was shitfaced/blacked-out drunk and we ended up having sex at his hostel (and losing my virginity, which I never, never, NEVER would have done if I was sober)... because when I sobered up, I had vague recollections of really getting into the sex with this person, and for all he knew (he was also drunk), enjoying it thoroughly. There was no evidence to prove that it wasn't consensual, for all this guy knew, and my own brief memory serves that correctly. We e-mailed back and forth after this event and established the facts, and he ended up being a fairly decent person despite the circumstances... he had no idea that I was a virgin (since I gave no indication at the time), and apologized profusely. Lord knows ANYthing could have happened to me when I was blacked out on Bourbon Street, so I took this event as providence.

All I can say is, do not drink (or overdrink) in situations where you don't trust the people you are with (I was with a couple of idiot frat/sorority people I'd met the day before, who needed a ride South from our university), and where you doubt your ability to keep your head about you. I've never been a huge drinker except for a few months during that year, but I will never drink much again, certainly not to the point of blacking out.

oh mal...*hugs*

Thank you for sharing that with us mal. The treatment you received was appalling and disgusting and makes my heart hurt. I agree with kiwi...hugs for you. And Shani. And any other woman here who has gone through this.

If somebody grabs you from behind and starts dragging you-do not fight forward, that makes the pulling easier... either go limp like a tantruming two year old or jump backward (in the direction of the pulling). It knocks them off balance and may give you the chance to run.

I lived in Texass for six years and I knew then that they were a couple three decades behind the times. Mal, let's go pick up that Loosiana girl and go kick some Texan butt.

Excellent advice, Astrah. Dead weight (limp) is nearly impossible to move. Jumping backward is the last thing a rapist would expect.

ahh thanks for the advice. I have never been in that situation and I hope that I never will be to be honest. I dont know anyone that has either, but i have read stories and stuff and i do feel for those who have. It is terrible and these men should be locked up for good. It is sickening and disgusting that they can do this and treat a woman in this way. :( It is good to always have advise on the subject and a forum where girls can discuss it. :thumbsup:

Wow ladies -- I'm honored and sickened by what you all dared to share! I am fortunate in that I have not been raped even though I've put myself in some very risky situations. The fact is, more than one aquaintance could have done it to me if I hadn't used psychology as well. However, I'd rather have not been in those situations at all.

The saddest story I have is of an uncle who tried to molest/rape me after babysitting his son, on the drive home. I told my mother, who told her mother. Grandma talked to her son-in-law who promised it would never happen again. He proceeded to ruin several cousins lives by raping them. (One from age six on -- horrible.) The fact is, we must be mostly aware of those we know and we need to protect our daughters at all costs! If I had to do back then over again, I would have insisted we call the police. But I was too young. And, although I know they'd do differently now, to give my mom and grandma credit, they truly believed they did the right thing at the time.

Hugs and kisses to all the victims who dared to share -- you are very brave woman! :icare:

Thank you for that story maleficent. Nearly as important as how to prevent yourself from being raped is how to protect others afterwards, and that's by going to the police. Even though you were mistreated, you don't have to live with the guilt of having done nothing. I never reported the men who raped me, in fact, I defended them on more than one occasion, and since I've gotten out of that situation, I've regretted not having the strength of character to do what you did.

Yes, if you are a resident, you can get a permit.

http://www.packing.org/state/index.jsp/new+york+city

I would highly suggest before you do so, you take some training courses, any gun range offers safety and basic training courses. Find out if you are comfortable first and then proceed from there. :)

Anyone else who is interested.

Here is the site which has more information for every state in the U.S.

http://www.packing.org/state/index.

:)

Sweet Pea

Thank you very much for sharing Mal.

that makes me crazy with anger to know that they wouldn't press charges against that horrible excuse for a human being.

you did the right thing. the police did not.

and your friend was amazing.

thank you for sharing your experience, hopefully, we can all learn from it.

:icare:

Sweet Pea

A gentleman (and I do mean that sincerely) member of TFP forwarded on the following information to be shared with the ladies of the lounge:

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1: Pepper spray is useless against a determined attacker. It's better than nothing, and it will probably kill a rapist's mood, but anyone who's been hit with it more than once will have built up a resistance. The same goes for stunguns. Police hate them because they can take down about 30% of criminals, less if they're drugged. Unless you're highly trained, carrying a knife is not advisable. It's very difficult to use it well, and you risk hurting yourself in a struggle if you lose control. If you do carry it, the best way to defend yourself is to slash at the soft side of any major joint. You will sever critical tendons and render anything from that point outward useless until after major reconstructive surgery. If you slash the armpit or inner thigh, the attacker will most likely bleed out within 45 seconds, but it is unlikely that any court would convict you for self-defense. Keep in mind that carrying anything with a blade of 4 inches or longer is illegal in most US states and is either a misdemeanor or felony.

The most important thing to remember is that you cannot carry a weapon solely as a deterrent. You should not expect to brandish a knife and scare off an attacker. You will not be able to carry a gun and shoot to disable. If you are not willing to shoot at an attacker's center of mass (middle of the chest,) you should not carry a gun. If you do shoot the center of mass, there is a 6% chance that a follow-up shot will be needed. There is still a 2% chance that a second shot will not produce reflexive neurocirculatory shock (disabling of the peripheral nervous system.) If two shots do not stop an attacker, the third should be placed directly between teh eyes, below the hard part of the skull but still high enough to disable the central nervous system. If you read that and aren't sure that you want to carry a gun to defend yourself, then you are probably not prepared to kill in self-defense, and should not carry unless your attitude toward lethal force is more definite.

2: There are two ways to hit a guy that will drop him almost 100% of the time (unless he's drugged.) The first is a sharp blow to the family jewels, the second is an eye gouge. Biting used to be an option, but you're likely to get some sort of nasty disease these days. The original post referred to someone who said she felt bad for ripping muscle on a guy who was trying to rape her, but as a male, I fully believe that someone who is trying to sexually assault anyone deserves to lose an eye or a ball. There is no good way to describe the pain caused by a hit to the testicles, and the only comparable thing that I can think of that could be experienced by both genders is to be punched in the eye itself, not eye socket, while someone twists your nipple with a pair of pliers.

If someone grabs one of your arms, the easiest way to dissuade him is to twist so that his elbow is facing up, and bring your other fist down on it. This will either dislocate or break the attacker's elbow, allowing you to get away. A friend of mine who was taking a martial arts class showed me this move, and although I am 8-9 inches taller than him and outweigh him by around 100 pounds, a light, nondamaging hit to my elbow proudced a momentary bout of excruciating pain.

Bending back fingers will also cause excruciating pain, but this is not guaranteed to stop a determined attacker.

3: If you can't hit, but can grab, your best bets, depending on your range of motion (unless he has both wrists pinned to your sides, one of these should be possible,) ar either the underarm pinch, or twist-and-grab on Mr. Winky's two best friends. If your wrists are pinned, either kick backwards toward the groin, or if you're facing him, pick between pushing forward and kneeing the groin and headbutting his nose.

4: You also have a range of psychological techniques to try if you can't physically resist. As Squishor mentioned, the "I thought we were friends" can really mess with someone's head. Using forceful language to define yourself in his mind as somethign other than a passive victim has been shown to work by killing off the rapist's fantasy of domination.


A final note: If the unthinkable happens and you are sexually assaulted, do not be afraid to report it. You did not do anything wrong. You have nothing to be ashamed of. If you don't report it, there is a good chance that the person who did it will do it again to someone else.

^^^

Thank you to this gentlemen TFPer :icare:

all great points.

Sweet Pea

this may be a stupid, question but is pepper spray and mace the same thing?

Here's what I found at a distributor of pepper spray.

"What is the difference between pepper spray and Mace or tear gas?

Mace is a brand name for a tear gas product. Tear gas, both CS and CN are synthesized chemicals that are known as "lacrimators".

A lacrimator is a substance that produces profuse tearing. Lacrimators, such as tear gas, are not effective against animals. Tear gas can also cause severe blistering of the skin and permanent blindness.

In short, tear gas has a very high level of toxicity whereas our pepper spray is totally non-toxic.

It appears that the chemicals used are different in the two sprays. Both may have a mixture of the same chemicals but not in the same ratio. It appears that pepper spray has a larger ratio of chemicals made from peppers. I am generally not knowledgable about this subject but I do know where to find information about it at least.

Thanks to this thread, Quadro is looking into buying me some pepper spray or mace. I'm not sure whether to thank you all or roll my eyes... Having never been in a situation like that, I have a hard time imagining it as real. Not that I'm interested in finding out, either! Thus the precautions... *sigh*
I wish people were healthier mentally.

Edit: I didn't realize that I missed several posts... good gods. Thanks for sharing. I mean it. By doing so, you've helped one naive woman start thinking a little less naively... This shit makes me SOOO angry. That's what I worry about, actually.. not that I'll get raped, because I've been molested and I lived through that, but that my anger will get me killed instead.

Thanks so much to all the ladies who share to teach.

Is one spray generally considered better than another? Tear gas seems so extreme - what if I make a mistake? But I don't want pepper spray if it won't work that well either... Anyone have ideas on that?

Mace, as far as I know is a lot stronger, but you need to be liscensed (at least in NY to carry it) Pepper spray is generally pretty easy to find, and causes a stinging sensation in a person's eyes. However, if a person is on drugs, or possibly even very drunk, they may not be aware of the pepper spray or may not be bothered by it. The problem with pepper spray also, if used on a breezy day, it can come back to you...

Your best offense, as they say, is a good defense, and not put yourself into a situatio where you could get ito trouble, always be aware of your surroundings, and don't be stupid... (I would also add trust no one, but that makes me soud bitter)

i was really amazed and awed at how shani dealt with her rape...

i hope oneday i can have that same attitude..

when i was younger my longterm bf passed away...i was really hurt and many of his so called friends were actually asking me out in teh weeks after his death...i had become friends with only one of his friends and i turned toward him the most. we had agreed that we would say we were dating so that people would leave me alone. he was a big guy..not so much tall as wide...very wide...he wasnt the brightest guy but he was friendly. i was on alot of meds at the time for depression and they made me feel very weak and tired. he would push for the stuff that he thought "normal" gfs would do...3 years older then me and he hadnt even kissed a girl. i would object and he would push it everytime. totally forgetting that we werent a normal couple ..that we werent a couple at all...eventually i gave in..he would kiss me..and touch me..and i would smile and then go and throw up. he would push my head down and demand head...i saw his rolls of fat and acne and beady eyes and i wanted to cry and throw up and peel my skin off. meanwhile a guy had moved in next door (biznatch) that i was amazingly attracted to..even tho it was so close to my bfs death i was drawn to him. i tried to end it totally with the guy. he would invite himself over to do work for my parents...oneday i felt very ill and i was supposed to meet him in the city that day...i called him to tell him i wasnt feeling well and he shows up at my door..i let him in thinking i would just let him wait at my house for the next train...he pushed me into the couch and using his weight held me down while he raped me. i begged him to stop and to get off. he just looked at me and said "but your my girlfriend this is what were supposed to do dont you get it?" after he finished he said he loved me and told me to go clean up. i was depressed and confused and kinda scared..i was convinced i had caused it. after me and biznatch started dating and some other stuff happend i told him to leave me alone for good. he then be friended my parents housekeeper whos more a member of the family then anything else and gpt close to my parents..and he would show up at my house whenever he felt like it...almost everyday. i didnt want to see him so i would stay up stairs. some other stuff happend between up and i told him that he wasnt my parents friend and that he wasnt mine. he showed up at my parents office and made up and long list of things i had "done"..now this was when i was younger and he was saying stuff like i had forced HIM to have sex ..while he wanted to wait till marriage, how i was lying to them and doing drugs..how i was stealing and lying about everything...the list was long. he pretty much pulled it out of his ass. throwing in just enough truth to make my parents believe it. after i found out what he had done including finding pictures of me that were for my bf who had passed away on my computer (nude photos) and sending them to himself then showing them to my parents saying i was giving them to everyone and was selling my body for money. i sent him a txt msg saying to watch his back. i was too scared to tell my mom what had happend..and i still havent...and i knew i couldnt report it without my mom knowing...i didnt want him to get off scot free...now he was disturbingly close to his family..at 19-20 years old he had an early curfew and he couldnt go out without telling him mom where he was and when he was going to be home..along with even creepier stuff...and we got a call from his mom threating my family and me if we ever retaliated. i'm still confused and it still hurts me everyday...he lied to all of my dead bfs friends telling them i was a manipulative whore..he made up this entire story...they knew him all thro HS so they trusted him...

anyway...maybe now that i've shared it i'll be able to come to terms with it

what an asshole.... you didn't do anything wrong... don't ever forget that...

hugs for ya, kiddo.., hope this made you feel better.

*HUGS*, kk...
Just that. Hugs.
You did everything anyone could have done.

Hugs.

Kiwi, it's not your fault.

Have you thought about seeing a Counselor ??

After my friend's rape, she recieved counseling and it helped allot.

Here is a resource i found for NYC
http://www.aardvarc.org/victim/

Hugs ((( HUGS ))) Thank you for being brave enough to share :icare:

Sweet Pea

Let me second sweetpea's suggestion. Rape counseling centers will provide counseling for free, and can be very helpful, and can refer you to a specialist if longer term counseling is needed. It's hard, very hard, to walk into one of those places, I know this, but it's worth it.

i found all of what was being siad very touching, unfortunatly i can also relate to what was said, although my cercumstances are entirely different again.

i was raped, and lost my virginity to this person,this said i couldnt report it as i thought that i would be to blame,i was 16yrs old and my rapist was 14yrs old, and therefore under the legal age for sex.

to add to the situationn i couldn't leave this person as i thought that if i did he would get me int some serious trouble, so i stayed, i was with this person for 2 years, and then when he turned 16 i fell pregnant. i knew that i couldn't have got rid of my child, and so ended up hoping that i would loose the baby instead, but i didn't, i now have a lovely 6 yr old son, of whom i love with all of my heart, and i can be pleased in telling you that i've since married and had more children. It is hard for me to try and not think about what my sons father did ,but at the end of the day he is all mine and no one elses, and i love him with all of my heart 100%.

i dont think that i will ever be able to forget what hapened, and it just goes to show that although you think that you know some one you don't.

It's appalling that a 14 year old would think that it was acceptable behavior. I don't understand what goes thru the mind of someone that thinks it's OK.

I'm glad it's had a happy ending for you, that you are hopefully wiht a m an that treats you with respect and loves you. Your young son will grow into a man that also does the same thing, and the cycle won't repeat itself.

A male member chimes in on the subject of pepper spray vs mace

Thanks..

thanks you guys :) i did actually try to talk to a therapist i was seeing at the time but she had said that if i told her she would have to tell my parents. i didn't want that to happen especially since he had said that i had forced him and they already believed him. its actually caused a huge family rift. recently i started seeing a new therapist who i actually feel comfortable talking to so hopefully that will help me deal with it better. *hugs* back to all of you

xsexydolphinx i second what mal said

and where could we buy the mace/pepper spray mix? because i would actually like to get some. i've tried using pepper spray on a mugger and he actually laughed... nyc criminals dont seem to mind the pepper spray lol

Our favorite gentleman browser offers up some more helpful information:


Mace Security International, Inc. makes several types of defense products, each containing one or several compounds.

There is the traditional capsacin-based pepper spray, which is available in spray, stream, foam, and gel canisters, and there's CS gas (military grade tear gas.)

Pepper spray causes intense burning in the eyes and mucous membranes while tear gas causes uncontrollable watering of the eyes and irritation of the respiratory tract. These two can be combined for maximum stopping power (which, unfortunately, is only about 30%,) and the triple forumla spray (this is what police get) combines the two with an indelible UV dye for identification of an attacker.

Thank you to this male member for looking out for us gals ;) :)

Sweet Pea

thanks "male member" :)

Yes, thank you. :) My boyfriend has been on my case to carry something for a while now, since my job has me staying in random motels in strange towns fairly often. More than once, someone has watched to see what room I was in and then called my room wanting to know if I'm "ready to party."

Of course it's different to fight with Loverboy. But my point was that if he, with his superior strenght by regular workout, wasn't able to hold me down then the average sized rapist wouldn't be able too either. And if I can just get one hand off his grip then I could go after vital body parts such as eyes/nuts..

Thinking that a rapist wouldn't hurt me or kill me if only I cooperate would be very naive. If he has no scruples about raping women then what's to keep him from harming them as well?

Does anyone have access to statistics over how often a rapist hurt/kill women after he's raped them?

You're a strong women squishor and I admire you a lot for how you handled both situations :icare:

I'm surprised that a simple remark or facing them is enough to make them stop sometimes. I'll have to keep both techniques in mind so I'm better prepared if I ever should find myself in a rape situation!

Me too!

I suppose it's stupid to fight back if the guy has a knife (it is almost impossible to get your hands on firearms in Denmark) yet I still would. I don't care how many bruises and cuts the fight may give me, I really don't. A few scars is a small price to pay opposite to all the psychological damage a rape would cause me.

Gilda: When I ask him to he doesn't hold back...

My question is why would you want to playfight with your boyfriend this roughly anyways?
:confused:

Didn't I mention in my first post that it was a test? I was just curious to see if he could hold me down with all his strength that's all :)

My bad,
I was thinking, if he likes her he can tell her,
its not like we're all still in grade 1. :p