The War on Christmas
 

What is so bad about saying "Happy Holidays"? I've used that phrase for years, and I'm certainly no soldier in the "War on Christmas". Let's face it, not everyone is Christian. And there are numerous holidays, celebrated by other religions, that coincide with this time of the year. Is it that big of a deal? I, for one, don't think so. But, I tend to not make such a big thing out of situations such as a simple "Happy Holidays". Are people really getting that thin skinned? Do some honestly feel that threatened by it, or are they just out for attention?

This is such a non-issue. What is it? Does Bill O'Reilly have nothing better to rail against this week?

Seriously. We in North America live in multicultural societies. At one point we were nations made up of predominantly one religion, Christianity (and it's various branches). This is no longer the case. Many other cultures and religions are part of the make up of our nations. Why wouldn't we make the effort to be more inclusive rather than the opposite?

Happy Holidays is an inclusive statement. It doesn't exclude Christmas or any other celebration. It embraces all at the expense of none.

Get over it already and pass the fricken egg nog.

Everyone that I've encountered in the whole world knows that Dec is Christmas, some know that Hannakuh comes too, from Singapore to Iceland.

In other countries that have dominating religions, everyone SHARES in the days and greets each other accordingly. No erasing the word to make someone else feel better since it's not that big of a deal anyways to most.

Depalvi in India is celebrated in Singapore but the Buddhists don't celebrate it, but the at least acknowledge their fellow countrymen celebrate it.

Who cares anyway, Christmas is a made up holiday, it was originally a roman one to celebrate their god, the tree wasn't added until much later by Germans. And it actually being the birth of Jesus is highly speculative. Although i suppose it's better then just picking a day at random, but what I’m saying is if you're that into Christmas, you might want to look into its original meaning, less to do with Jesus more to do with pagans. So why care so much about a made up holiday, does it truly symbolize what people say it does, i don't think so. Almost everyone i know sees Christmas as the time of year you wait in line and receive/give craptacular gifts. So saying happy holidays not necessary from a secular standpoint if you can afford it why not say merry Christmas and a happy new year, too many words for some. Personally i couldn't care less. So I don’t think it’s a war on Christmas, it’s just a preference.

I think its gotten silly with the happy holidays. A better question is, is it offensive to wish someone a merry Chirstmas?

My wife does the Christmas card thing, and she got a box of 'happy holiday' cards for the non-Christian types, mostly Jewish. I told her to get some hanukkah cards instead.

So while I don't see saying happy holidays as a war on Christmas, I do see it as a cop out to the fear of being non-PC.

The "War on Christmas" is funny for about a few days each year. It's just a bunch of egotistical christians that want everyone to conform to their will.

Both sides of this argument are patently ridiculous. This is a total non-issue. I can only speculate at the motives of the people who are making such a fuss about it.

I have many friends who are observant jews. To a one, when wished a merry Christmas, will smile and say, "Thanks!". Or maybe, "I don't celebrate Christmas, but thanks! Merry Christmas to you!" Guess what? Non-christians actually don't get offended when you make assumptions about their faith. They're used to it. Most of my jewish friends LOVE Christmas, and are happy to be taking part in our celebration of it. One of them was really excited to be able to come decorate our tree with us yesterday.

On the other hand, what the hell does it hurt to have a little sensitivity? It's NICE to be respectful of other people and their faith. Christmas is all ABOUT being nice to people (cf. Eben. Scrooge, et al). Being wished "Happy Holidays" doesn't detract from my Christmas observance in the slightest. Are Christians really so offended to be reminded that there are non-Christians in the world at this, their most holy shopping season?

What's REALLY an attack against Christmas is those damn card-carying atheists who are celebrating an evil sham of American Right-Wing Norman Rockwell Christmas. Look! ratbastid doesn't even believe in Christ! And he's got a Christmas tree up! And LOOK!! Stockings! Hung by the chimney with care! HEATHEN! BUUUURRRN!!!!

Guilty as charged... :lol:

since when -- christmas is all about gimme gimme gimme gimme.. and being as rude as possible to people when out on the streets and in the malls...

bah humbug i say...

at least it's a creative stand....

That's not what it's about... that's what it has BECOME.

There is a difference.

In theory anyway

sounds about right :)

I call it Xmas... or Crimbo.

If I was to wish a Buddhist a 'Merry Crimbo', then I'm just telling him that:

I had a productive summer, I've survived the worst of the winter and to celebrate I'm going to eat and drink heavily for several consecutive days and I wish for that person to have the means and the time to do the same.

How could anyone possibly be offended by that?



#edit#

P.S. Saying 'Happy Holidays' most definitely constitutes a war on Christmas.

The folks at Landover Baptist Church appear to agree with Krupnik and Castellanos. They believe Santa is Satan. Get behind me Santa!

LINK

you'd be amazed at what people CHOOSE to be offended by... :)

I'm still bah humbugging ... :)

Shit like this is what happens when parties let their fringe groups flap their lips too much. I'm so sick of extremists on both sides dominating debate. I'm just as sick of liberals who get their panties in a bunch over hearing the word Christmas as I am of conservatives that get all offended by the word Holidays.

Why can't we just round up those people on both sides, drop them off on a remote island with a shitload of weapons and let them fight it out? Once the victors in 'War on Christmas' have been decided we can nuke the island and forget about them once and for all. Yeah, you won but you're still dead!!!

At least you are consistant ratbastid :thumbsup:

Being an atheist I have a tree up but only to celebrate my pagan heritage.

All hail Dagda!

you do know that Landover Baptist Church is a parody, right?

Battle Royale... the Christmas sequel!

The reason why this will never happen is that it is these fringe elements that fill the ballot boxes.

Well the Republicans are about to learn that you can't pander to extremists during the election year and then forget about them for the rest of the term. Democrats need to take note on this too.

The Landover Baptist Church is the only clear thinking religious organization in America.

Really? You're kidding!


/end sarcasm. :lol:

I was raised conservative, protestant, Christian. There were times that we had no tree, exchanged no gifts, and we NEVER pretended, or acknowledged Satan, I mean Santa, except with distain. We infact did not even wrap gifts with paper that had images of Santa on them.

As an adult, and parent, I took my daughter to see Santa. I will take my daughter to the Christmas program at church. There are many different religions and cultures who celebrate this time of year for many good reasons and I see no reason to throw out the whole celebration of a certain culture or religion simply because I don't agree with all of it.

I normally say Merry Christmas because that is what I grew up with and am most comfortable with. Even though Christ-Mass was considered a 'pagan' celebration by my religious peers. Protestants do not hold mass of any sort. But I celebrated it as a Christ centered holiday so called it by the most common name. I am not offended by someone saying Happy Holidays because it does acknowledge other celebrations as well and I am not going to take someone else's celebration from them simply because I don't PERSONALLY celebrate it.

The debate about having a Christmas tree here, I found interesting. A Christmas tree is not a purely 'Christian' image used in Christmas celebration. Christmas (as well as Halloween) has elements of many other religions. The Catholic church merged a few 'pagan' traditions into it's celebrations in hopes of making the pagans more comfortable with worshiping with the Catholic church.
Growing up my parents (in particular my mother) had a problem with putting up a tree of any kind and in the end allowed us to put one up so long as we did not put ANY gold or silver decorations on the tree. She based her belief on the reference in Jeremiah 10:2-5 where it refers to 'heathen' putting up a tree and worshiping it. "For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; theyfasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not." So in some areas of the protestant faith, people believe that a Christmas tree is an idol and image that us pagans 'worship'. I ask you - how many of you have bowed down to your Christmas tree lately or prayed to it??

Happy Holidays? - go ahead and say it but don't you dare complain if I still say "Merry Christmas".

I really don't give a crap. When I see arguments like these it really just reminds me how stupid and petty people are.

WHY DOES ANYONE CARE?

No, and it's pretty fucking retarded to say so.

Happy Saturnalia.

yet another faux news non issue.
unlike most other such, this one is funny...the premise is an imperial daydream of universal christianity.....wall to wall, all the same....it should not be---- no-one who is not xtian and who finds themselves nevertheless participant in an xtian annual cycle should have the audacity to write or exchange seasonal greetings....why this is obviously an affront to xtians everywhere--presenting them with the fact that not everyone is like them during the time of year when dreaming about an xtian world is most appealing.

this is an evident index of angst amongst the folk who run the right media apparatus--alienation of the far right xtian base---this sad, tedious meme would bypass all contact with reality (again) and provide the far right xtian base with a reason to feel solidarity with a wider political context during those brief moments of reflection that punctuate sustained retail experiences.
like when you are standing in a line at a cash register waiting to pay.
while you read the information on the box of a computer game the main objective of which is to kill as many arabs as possible, say.
channel that irritation into something useful.
in this way, you see fox news trying to help.
yay faux news.
yay bill o'reilly.

I love it. :lol: Carry on, heathen. :)

It seems that people have started looking for anything to claim it offends them; "The War on Christmas" is just another one of these. I'm all for making sure that no one is offended, but it does seem to be getting ridiculous and petty.

Personally, I use "Merry Christmas" and "Happy Holidays". Sorry in advance if I do offend anyone. I really don't mean to.

It is my hobgoblin.

Look, when O'Reilly is the main spewer of "war on christmas" rhetoric, you gotta admit there's a right-wing faction at work. It's a completely absurd thing, being used, I suspect, to opportunistically rile up the religious conservative base. The religious support of the conservative agenda has been slipping lately, and nothing works on that demographic quite like righteous indignation.

That's all I'm gonna say about that, because this thread is in General, not Politics.

Huh. I was raised in a very similar environment (mostly Conservative Southern Baptist). In the same way I never knew from one year to the next how we were going to be allowed to do anything from trees to santa to whatever. OK, Santa was never any part of our holiday, but if Mom found Santa wrapping paper on sale, we'd use that (on the premise that it'd be ripped up and destroyed anyways...oye). Same with Easter.

I don't worry about that stuff anymore at all. And I'll say just about any crazy thing, including Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas--whatever happens to pop out of my irreverent, sacreligious mind at that moment.

By the way raeanna74, I'm always interested in your point of view, seeing how similar our upbringing seems to have been, and the things you do/way you live now. :D

To any kid (from 1 to 92), the phrase "Merry Christmas" has a whiff of thrill and magic to it that no other phrase in the English language can equal.

"Happy Holidays" is a lukewarm glass of water; "Happy Hannukah" or Kwanzaa don't do much for me either.

But Bill O'Reilly's war on Christmas? It's so laughable that my first reaction was: this can't be real, this is some sort of a parody?

If the Onion were to try to think up a parody of Bill whose purpose was to point out how ludicrous, petty, and obsessed he is, it's really hard to think of a better one than this.

In my hometown, the local university lit up their "Holiday Tree" this year just like they have done every year for the past several years (BIG ceremony with singing and speeches and hot chocolate, etc.). And they've always called it a "Holiday Tree." However, this year they suddenly made it onto the hit list of the Christmas Soldiers and boycotts were threatened, letters written, television reports filed, and donations pulled back. Next year, they'll have a Christmas Tree, even though nobody really cared (or even noticed) until this year that it was a "Holiday Tree."

Weird.

Now, on the flip side of that, I'm disappointed in businesses that are afraid of the word "Christmas" and they've trained and threatened all their employees to avoid the word at all costs.

It's the same mistake as above, just on a different side of the river.

If a Jewish person made a remark about lighting a menorah, would you jump up his ass and tell him it's a "Holiday Candlestick Holder?" Therefore, if the non-Christians would lighten up a little bit, then the Christian weirdos wouldn't have anything to protest and boycott (in theory). Let Christians have Christmas, let Jews have Hannukah, let Africans have Kwanzaa, and let Muslims have Eid El Fitr.

People always get into trouble when they start trying to ban things that belong to other folks. But then again, some people live for that shit.

yes, this issue is so unimportant it's unbelievable. i like holidays (general term) but i don't do a lot of well-wishing tied to specific days. unless it's "happy birthday."

i know people very concerned with whether target employees say MC or HH
HH is somewhat of a product of the PC culture, but it is also a fast way to say happy thanksgiving, merry christmas, happy new year...

i was wondering if "holidays" could be watered down some more
holy should not be acceptible with everyone. is anyone leading a war on holidays? bring on wintervale. it's an idea for next year, maybe.

i'd say christmas is safe. then again, the ACLU could sue to have the day stripped of it's status as a national holiday. that would be a great PR move on their part. meanwhile, we are free to run around buying stuff while fighting over semantics in the trenches of walmart entrances everywhere.

merry christmas, everybody...and happy new year, too...

I plead the fifth. :)

You don't have to be a christian to have a happy Dec. 25th. "War" seems a little extreme.

The war on Christmas is a manufactured controversy that gives pundit gasbags something to talk about.

It started in earnest when O'Reilly, a Fox talk show host had on a guest, John Gibson, who wrote the book, "The War On Christmas: How the Liberal Plot to Ban the Sacred Christian Holiday Is Worse Than You Thought".

John Gibson is a Fox news host. Gee, isn't that a coincidence? So, TV and radio gasbags all o're the land are screaming about this topic. I helped produce a talk show on a day this was the topic. When a caller asked why we were talking about it, the host said, "uh, it's one of those things they say talk radio is talking about." Which pretty much puts it in a nutshell.

Have a happy nutsacking!-

This seems to have been going on long before O'Reilly.. back when i was a wee one in my plaid skirt attending Most Blessed Sacrament.. the big push at Christmas came from the Knights of Columbus.. and that was the Keep Christ in Christmas campaign.. This was to counteract the people shortening Christmas to Xmas... or even happy holidays...

I think that was really a whole other thing than this latest. People have been saying, "keep the Christ in Christmas" for decades. Some who are less than aware what the X in Xmas means (the Greek X, "chi" was a symbol for Christ) also railed against that for a while, but since then the symbol has become fairly common knowledge.

Yes, Mal is right, this has been a topic prior to O'Reilly. I can remember rumblings about it back when I was a kid; usually about the use of Xmas.

Mostly it was an effort to remember the Christ in Christmas which is always a good reminder.

The recent drivel from O'Reilly is just another example of him trying to create mountains out of molehills. If he can just stir up enough mud something will stick.

"Happy Holidays" (holy days) is being used instead of "Merry Christmas" in an effort to not offend anyone but we all know the reason for all the hoopla at this time of year is because of Christmas and has nothing to do with any other religion's holy days.

I see nothing wrong with wishing people Merry Hannakah , Happy Kwanza, etc.. but these celebrations have nothing to do with Christmas so why try and roll them all up together into a "Happy Holy Day" type greeting. Maybe we should all just celebrate winter and use "Season's Greetings".

I would suggest to the retailers that they continue to use "Merry Christmas" since Christmas is the reason for all the gift giving/buying at this time of year.

I think the "war on christmas" might be a little over dramatic but there is something to it. So many double standards in the public realm, like the acknowledgement of holidays like Ramadan and Hannakah in schools, yet it is a violation of the "separation of church and state" if Christmas is mentioned. Sure flaunt the crescent moon, let's light the menorah, hey what's with that manger! You can't do that! Oh and you can't sing Christmas songs in school either, only secular ones. That is pretty lame. Again I don't see how the putting of a manger on government property, or at least acknowledging the fact that Christmas a federally recognized holiday, is about Jesus Christ. What is it with some people.

Here is a PC/parody of a famous "holiday" most of us should remember:

Here's a pretty asinine interview that happened last year on the O' Reilly Factor, drives home what I was trying to say.

It used to tickle me to no end to see all of the "Jesus is the reason for the season" signs up all over the place when I lived in the South, and then read the paper or watch the news the day after Black Friday and see the accounts of people punching/biting/attacking each other over the great sales at Walmart. My mom works at the military base exchange (like a mini mall) and has witnessed many accounts of unruly behavior during the holiday season. Merry Christmas indeed.

As for me, I usually say Merry Christmas, but it's only because it's a habit, and not because of any religious significance. You can count me in as one of those heathens who takes part in the festivities without reference to religion at all.

I don't think there's a war on xmas. I think there is a war in xmas. On our ears. Using horrific remixes of xmas songs.

However:

My parents are legally muslim (dad) and christian (mom), though we had a mostly atheist home. The one holiday we celebrated was xmas though (tree and gifts and all). So xmas is a meaningful event to me, though it's always been secular in my mind.

Anyway, I enjoy being told happy <insert holiday name here> from someone celebrating that holiday, and certainly return the wishes.

Mojo_PeiPei, thanks for posting that interview. It was a perfect example of how O'Reilly spins the issues to deceive and confuse his audience while simultaneously shouting down and diverting his guests so that they can't properly rebut his deceptions and lies.
New York City's policy was perfectly in line with prior precedent set by the Supreme Court. Schools are allowed to display secular items like Christmas trees and menorahs, but can't display overtly religious items like the nativity scene. That's the line they drew and while some may not completely agree with it, it's the law of the land. It's no wonder then that the Thomas More Center lost their lawsuit last year.
This whole thing is just a way for demagogues like O'Reilly and Gibson to make some more money by further dividing this country. It's good to see that most people here aren't buying into it.

Since when is the Menorah or Crescent moon "secular", are you serious? The symbols that coincide with Religious holidays of hannkah and Ramadan are secular? No. That is the double standard that is perpetuated on Christians in this country for fear of not being PC. It is insulting to me as a christian that the country is too afraid to acknowledge in the public realm a federal holiday which celebrates the birth of Jesus Christ (don't argue the name sake for historical purposes, it's all the same). Even if you are not Christian you are a fugazee if you don't recognize as a philosopher and person of histroy he is the most influential man that has ever lived. So either live up to what you claim, or drop it entirely, I'm sick of the double standard.

Christmas is still very much about goodwill toward people. We just live in a commercialized world now, but people are pretty much the same individually. Now in groups, or places like here where anonymity is the thing people can say how they truly feel and get very little retribution for it.

With commercialism comes Politicall Correct terms and the destruction of the "Christmas"........ Stores do not want to offend their shoppers, thus they can't wish "Merry Christmas" for fear a needed sector of their market maybe lost.

Every time I go out people still say Merry Christmas, or Happy Holidays, people still donate heavily to the Salvation Army and good causes and people still get goose pimples watching "It's a Wonderful Life", some form of the many versions of "A Christmas Carol" and when they hear a Christmas song.......

But granted by the middle of December people get sick of it. After all the commercials and the stores start selling the season the day after Holloween.

But the hope, goodwill and beauty of the season are still there..... maybe harder to see because of all the commercialism but the major reason for the holiday still exists.

Which is wonderful because wouldn't the cold of Winter be even worse without the Holiday season and all the good and bad that goes with it?

Just look how from Jan. to Easter and the begingings of Spring are so blase and dreadful.

So whether or not Christmas and the Holiday Season is what is supposed to be, as long as people try and the monotony and just horridness of Winter is broken up by some stranger smiling and wishing me a "Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, Season's Greetings.... whatever" it makes this time of year more bearable........ at least to me.

Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, Happy Kwanzaa, Happy Hannakah, whatever it is to you have a great one

I think there is a slight anti-Christian effort in the changing of "Merry Christmas" to "Happy Holidays". But honestly, I couldn't care less. Christmas has become so secularized anyways that I don't care. I can't wait until the time I'm away from my family and can just ignore it. On Somethingawful, one of the writers discussed this very issue, and I really liked his idea of a generic winter holiday where you just do whatever the hell you want for fun. No stupid obligations, forced purchases to fuel retailer's profits, having to be around people you can't stand and wouldn't be bothered with for the other 364 days of the year, just a day to relax and do what pleases you. It's not like the date is probably correct anyways (I think the Birth of the Lord was more accurately dated to August, but historians disagree). From all I've heard, early on Christian leaders just made up the date to coincide with preexisting holidays (I've heard it was based off a Roman holiday celebrating Saturn, but that might be wrong). So I say bah humbug, and this whole holiday period can kiss my ass.

To me, it's the separation of two ideas I have about the holidays:

The "holidays", aka the secularized Christmas, other religious/non-religious holidays, and New Years, are a time to get together, be merry, and to make a lot of cookies and eat a lot of food. It's a time to buy gifts and give gifts, and to receive said gifts. It is a time to put up a decorated tree, lights around the house, and festive decorations. The "holidays" are largely secular--they are Santa Claus, Rudolph, Frosty, etc.

Christmas, to me...the actual HOLIDAY of Christmas, is about the birth of Christ. That piece is separate from the "holidays". It's about realizing what I have received through my faith. To me, it's a time for spiritual reflection and thanksgiving.

Not everyone celebrates Christmas in a religious manner, and that's fine. The fact is that we have to recognize that not everyone celebrates Christmas, religion or no, and as members of a multicultural society we have to find a middle ground. Personally, I don't care one way or another if someone wishes me Happy Holidays or Merry Christmas, because to me there's little distinguishment as the majority of the population means the secularized Christmas.

I'm sure this post didn't make a lot of sense...but in my heart Christmas and the celebration of it (in the religious/spiritual sense) is a deeply personal thing.

It's a bunch of bull.
I'm all about saying "Happy Holidays". Not because it belittles Christmas, but because I live in a community with just as many Jews as Christians and I see no point in purchasing more than one style of Christmas card. On top of that, why single out Christmas when New Years is right around the corner.

If you're a stickler for "Merry Christmas" make sure your cards say it, and don't look down on the people who just don't want to say it back. Any intelligent individual wouldn't consider complaining over something as trivial as the wording on a holiday card. The whole concept is ludicrous.

There should be a war on all holidays. Period.

Is there a war on Christmas? I think so.

Is "happy holidays" a major salvo in that war? Perhaps. I think it depends on who's saying it and why. I don't think it is for most who use the phrase.

And I agree with the sentiment expressed above about the personal nature of the holidays, especially when and where and how they are considered holy-days by a soul.

But for the life of me I have a hard time understanding those who demand tolerance but then won't tolerate me when I want to say "Merry Christmas" or even "Merry CHRISTmas."

But then I don't understand the reasoning of folks like that on several different issues...

Oh, and by the way, MERRY CHRISTMAS ;)

Yeah, I did that just to tweak those who are bugged by it. If THAT bugs you, seems to me you've got issues as much as those going apoplectic postal over "happy holidays" :icare:

But do you know anybody that is offended by a Merry Christmas?

I like to hear it, I think it's fine. I just don't think there is a war on Christmas. It's just another way that pundits make money off of manufactured outrage.

Exactly what I was thinking. I can't think of a single person who is offended by Merry Christmas. I have had a few Jewish aquantences remind me that they don't celebrate Christmas when I've said it to them but it is always with either a laugh or a dramatic roll of the eyes... to which I say, Happy Chanukah.

I have to admit that I am a bit puzzled by the whole -- Menorah, Crescent, Nativity arguement...

Part of the big issue here is there are many different things at work here:

1) an increasingly diverse population
2) increased sensitivity to other cultures and religions
3) a largely secular aspect to the Holiday that crosses all cultures and religions
4) a few people who are "put out" by the term Holiday.


Here's what you do. Celebrate how you like to celebrate. Say the greeting you like to say and let other say what they want.

If you want a Nativity scene in your school... take it up with the Supreme court.

I do know of folks who get extremely outraged over "Merry Christmas."

If you don't, great.

They are also people who often cry "tolerance" but apparently it's only a word which means "you let me do / say what I want but don't expect the same from me."

I'm glad not everyone is like that, but some few are making progress LEGALLY on those fronts and that's the part which scares me.

Conform or die! LOL...

Oh well. MERRY CHRISTMAS.

Repeat after me...

BAH HUMBUG!!! It's all purpose and well... it fits the season...!

I say we burn the politically correct.

Western society is christian by design, our legal and moral system is based on christianism. If you don't like that, i hear antartica is nice this time of year, you have to be careful though, all that snow could be constituted as offensive to bush-men.

Someone fetch me my sword, my horse and my armour, i fancy leading a crusade or three against political correctness. Sign and print on the dotted line if you agree.


...........................................................................................................


I mean honestly, who gets offended by someone saying merry christmas? In case people hadn't noticed, christmas is about presents, not jesus. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to be introduced to the idea of the department store.

nevermind...

well "happy holidays" is not a war on christmas changing everything that says christmas to holiday seems to me like it is at least an attack if not a war. Holiday tree? Give me a break, can we rename the candles for honikah to Holiday candels too?

There are two groups of people that annoy me 1) is the group of people that have to be in your face christians and make sure everyone knows they are christian and try to force it on everyone else and 2) is the group of in your face athiests that try to make sure that no one else can worship God without feeling like an idiot or like they are infringing on other peoples rights.

What is next? Do we remove the star or angel from the top of christmas trees? Do we rename easter to happy bunny day?

Case in point. Out here in Utah there is a huge stink by athiests who are upset by crosses that are along the highways. These crosses are memorials for fallen highway patrol men and are placed around where they died. These crosses are a memorial to these officers lives. None of the families of these officers have complained about the memorials. Now Utah is special because 60% of our population is mormon. The mormon church does not like the cross and do not believe in displaying crosses but not a single mormon has come out against these crosses because they realize it is a memorial honoring the sacrifice that these men made. The constitution guarentees people the right of religious freedom (atheism included) but does not guarentee the right to shit on everyone elses religion.

War on drugs.
War on terror.
War on Christmas.

Methinks some would like the meaning of the word "war" to be diluted, and thus more readily accepted by the masses.

The Onion pretty much sums my opinion of this matter, with a nice sense of sarcasm.

Count on the Onion to get to the heart of the matter. :thumbsup:

Democratic Congressman John Dingell from Michigan has weighed in with a poem that he read on the House floor in response to Republican efforts to push some ridiculous "War on Christmas" bill.
Read it here:
http://www.house.gov/dingell/documen...12-14-05_2.htm

Here's a bit of it:

:lol: I love it!!

The local online rag, that I read, The Omaha World Herald Online, ran a similar poll. The results were the exact opposite of what I'm seeing here. Those that believed that there is truly a "War on Christmas" ran away with it, by about 1700 to 400 that did not believe there was an attack on Christmas. I wish I could access it, but alas...I cannot. I confess to being a little taken aback, realizing of course, just how conservative this area really is, at just how seriously some people are taking this.

To those who do take this so-called War on Christmas seriously, know this. I, a self avowed atheist, in no way, shape or form, want to take the spirituality away from your holiday. All I ask is that you allow me, and the rest of my ilk, to enjoy the secular aspects of it, in relative peace, harmony and goodwill. Isn't that, after all, what it's supposed to be all about? That said, I'm gonna go listen to Chestnuts Roasting On An Open Fire, Winter Wonderland, White Christmas, and a few other secular Christmas songs. And I may even listen to a little Silent Night, or Away in A Manger...just 'cause I like 'em. I'm gonna sip me some mulled wine, stare at my Christmas tree, and basically celebrate the holiday...my way.

Merry Christmas, all.

I think you'll see more of a difference in the Bible Belt. Those are the places where "the War on Christmas" is probably more believed.

To me, Christmas is just a time of year that is supposed to unite, but it truly doesn't matter what you want to call it or when it is, if you truly have the spirit of Christ/Buddha/ any great Master and their teachings within you.

Why?

Because you would have that spirit within you every day and every season.

Guess to the Christian Right though, Christmas is the end all and be all to everything. Another lost message from Christ that they just don't care about. Guess that this is the only time of year they feel they should truly worship Christ.

Celebrate Christ every day not just Christmas.

My religious and spiritual belief is that Easter should be far more important because that was when Christ made the ultimate sacrifice.... and yet this "Great Christian Nation" the Religious Right tries to sell us into believing we are..... barely even recognizes it as anything more than the beginning of Spring.

Guess I'm just whacky, for believing someone's dying to save me from whatever death holds, is more important than celebrating his birth.

Happy Festivus everybody!

BTW..... I know Atheists that take Christmas far more seriously than some so called Christians.

You can believe in Christ's teachings but not believe in God or the Judeo/Christian/Muslim version.

The Grinch and the War on Christmas

Gilda

Heh, I'm glad to see the term 'moonbat' outside of LGF :D

interesting...

I was thinking about the OP on this the other day and thought, the Bush Administration is damned if you do damned if you don't in this situation. If they put Merry Christmas they be lambasted as promoting a religion, they put Happy Holidays, and they get tossed as the opening salvo to the War on Xmas. Well this newsbit got me thinking just how stupid this whole thing is and how people seem to "romanticize" aspects of life and demand that it be a particular was for them and the rest of the world.

So this is what the fuss is all about
A "war on Christmas" sponsored in part by the Right and Pat Robertson no doubt

While across the nation kids get toys
Iraq claims more of our boys

While parents credit covers their cost
We turned blind eyes to what in New Orleans so many lost

So this is the Christmas spirit the Right says is missing
As on our rights George Bush is pissing

So let's keep up this pseudo war
Let's forget all else, we know the score

Let's not focus on what really does matter
Let Wal*Mart, Oil barons and banks make their wallets fatter

Christmas is greed and greed is good
For Christ himself if he were here say it he would

So down with the Left, the Santa and Season's greetings
We need to take the heat off Bush's secret meetings

So a Bah Humbug and a give me mine fuck you
And while we're at it scrape the Constitution off W's shoe......

(sorry couldn't help myself.... move to wherever you deem proper)

Happy Chrismahannakwanzakah to you...

As someone Jewish, I do not expect a happy hannukah, merry christmas, or anything specific from others. You can say whatever you desire, and I will accept the wishes that is behind the statement

I try to wish friends who I know, according to their belief, but a happy holidays is safe, "P.C." if you would, but the intentions is what counts. I find it funny that people would get upset, that there is no 'norm.' Would these groups be ok, if there was a president who celebrated Kwanza or Hannukah and they sent out cards wishing a holidays greeting in regards to those holidays?!?

Honestly if I heard the president sent out a chrismtas card, i would not care, if he sent out a hannukah one i still would not care. People just need something better to do with their time!

This is such a tempest in a teapot.

Look: in past years, those SAME PEOPLE have been bitching about the commercialization and co-option of Christmas. "Too much shopping in Christmas", they cried. "Reason for the season!" Remember when "Remember the reason for the season" meant "Don't get carried away with the commercial aspects of Christmas"?

Now there's not enough Christmas in shopping!

Will they ever be satisfied? No! Because they're happiest doing what they're doing right now: bitching.

I don't understand why people think everybody else thinks like them. It's like: I believe in Christ, so all 500 million of you need to say this particular two-word phrase. Control freak much?

Bah. What about those of us who don't celebrate any of them?

Why isn't anyone wishing me a Happy Festivus? I was generous enough to get something for all of you:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y59...k/festivus.jpg

Gilda

Well, I wished you a happy Saturnalia. Is that not good enough?

Yeah, I can just almost remember a day when I was happy to just sort of get any greeting around this time of year (god forbid I say Holiday greeting!!!); now, of course, I feel obliged to rip the thorasic cavity out of anyone without the proper homage to the proper deity. I really seem to recall that when I was younger, there was virtually no difference between the various phrases you can throw out. It was like you had a choice. I'm glad they buckled down.

Happy Diwali everyone...except Gilda. You, I'll be meeting in the feats of strength and the airing of grievances :)

THIS is a great article, from today's NYT:

http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/arti...00010000000001

I read in the local paper today that several large Christian churches are cancelling their Christmas services this year that fall on a Sunday. Something about too few people available for the service because they prefer to stay home and celebrate with the kids. Sounds like they have their own war against Christmas going on. :)

Happy Holidays just doesnt do it for me, Merry Christmas is what I want to hear!!!

true story....with all the "crap" going around about this, I decided to "try" not to offend anyone and on our message board when you walk in our office I used the magnetic letters to spell out happy holidays. When I came into work the next morning, the letters were on my desk with a note...."Try again, its MERRY CHRISTMAS" hehehe, I gotta just love the people I work with hehehehehe

My church has always done this....they have a christmas eve service for those that want to attend, and the church is open on christmas day, but there is no "church" service that morning

The one thing I don't recall from the New Testimont, is where it said to go to church on Sundays.

Though I may well have missed it.

I wasn't trying to be serious but thought the reports were rather funny. :)
Megachurches Cancel Christmas

Why didn't that ever happen to me as a kid? Christmas and Easter masses were the worst. Not only were they longer but they were so damn crowded.

Christmas was always best on a Sunday because that meant you didn't have to go to church a second time that weel

Saturday Christmasses were my favorite - could go to midnight mass on saturday and you're covered for sunday and for christmas...

easter was a hateful service- -never any seats and too danged long... :) all the good little heathens put on their sunday best and trotted out for sunday mass when they never saw the inside of the church since last easter... :)

The consumerism promoted by comercial interests being linked to christmas is in my opinion a larger threat to christmas.

I can remember having to go to the midnight service as a kid... I remember the heat and the crush of people and then having to exit to go throw up. I was convinced I was evil because church made me barf.

Wednesday is the Solstice.....we will celebrate it as we always do....no church, just family, no Wars, just love, no long service, just a short ritual of thanks, no heated debate, just a few minutes of silent devotion, no plasic trucks, just cookies hung on the trees for the fairies (squirrels), no fire and brimstone, Just a few candles to represent the light of coming spring.
I always look forward to this celebration, as it reminds me to be happy, and rekindles the warmth of family in my soul.

Happy Solstice Everyone

The worst thing about Easter Mass was that there was one Mass in particular that would have a lot of baptisms for new converts. It would easily add a half hour to the Mass. My family learned to avoid that Mass like the plague.

Boy, that's not at all like what I remember from childhood...poor Charlatan.

We would always have the Christmas pageant Christmas Eve, about 8pm or so. Following the pageant there would be cookies in the fellowship hall, and after cookies, the candlelight Christmas Eve service would start. My church was a big old-fashioned one with enormous stained glass windows running down either side and an elaborate altar with a giant portrait of Jesus hanging above it. The candlelight turned an already beautiful church into a magnificent, magical place--those Christmas Eve services will always live on in my memory.

Easters were also good--the church would always be packed, there would be lively music, and it was generally a celebratory, joyful time.

Now I am hundreds of miles away from my childhood church, and I've yet to find anything that remotely comes close, but I'm trying.

Here is a picture of the altar from the church (I still think it's beautiful):
http://www.oregonstate.edu/~jansenli/altar.jpg

Totally agree- this is such a non-issue. I saw Merry Christmas, but I happen to like Christmas. If I happen to know that someone celebrates a different holiday, then I recognize it - otherwise, I just stick to Christmas. I don't think I am being insensitive. It's not like I;m asking them to convert or anything.

I don't think anyone but extremist are ever offended by what Holiday term people use.

I'm a Christian, and I've never been offended when someone says Happy Xmas, Happy Hannakuh, Happy Winter Solstice, Kwanzi (spelling?) or whatever holiday they celebrate. On the contrary!

I am not a jew but have no problem at all wishing someone that is a Happy Hannakuh.


There are Christians upset that Christmas is actually a peagan Holiday, and there are atheist upset that a Christian Holiday is being forced on them. Idiots.

The holidays are what you make them. Regardless of the term you use, Christmas has become, for me anyway, a family and friends holiday. A time to honor your friends and family and show appreciation towards them. To me that has nothing to do with my religion and everything to do with being a good person.

People complaining about the terms are just bitter little people imo and need to just go back to bed and leave everyone else alone.

There is NO ISSUE!

That practice is from a lot further back than the New Testament! Second Commandment: "Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy." Church services are how Jews and Christians have kept that commandment since the days of Moses.

I think it's a little ridiculous that they'd cancel Christmas Day services. Christmas is quite literally the one day of the year I might be at all interested in attending a service.

I thought the old testimont says on the seventh day you shall rest. How did that become day one?

depended on the ruler who decided the calendar :)

look, "happy holidays" is said out of respect for those who don't celebrate Christmas per se...how can being respectful be an "act of war"?

The jews (which is what people in the old testement were) observed the sabbath on Saturday, not sunday (actually sundown on friday to sundown on saturday)

which would be the 7th day on our present calendar

Who benefits from the non-War On Christmas? Look at Bill O'Reilly's topic list from foxnews.com:


Merry Christmas, Maybe...
November 29, 2005

Three Victories For Christmas Traditionalists
November 30, 2005

What Would Jesus Do?
December 01, 2005

The Yuletide Has Turned...
December 05, 2005

Christmas Humbugs Strike Back
December 06, 2005

What Christmas Controversy?
December 07, 2005

Sears and Target see the Christmas Light
December 12, 2005

Christmas and the Media...
December 14, 2005

War on Christmas!
December 14, 2005 - yes, that's right, two topics about Christmas on the same show

Is the American Catholic Church Running Away from the Christmas Controversy?
December 15, 2005

The American Catholic Church and the Christmas Controversy
December 20, 2005

Plano, Texas and the War on Christmas
December 21, 2005

And my favorite:

Is O'Reilly Talking Too Much About The War On Christmas?
December 13, 2005

Notice the absence of topics on anything going on at the oval office. Shock and awe. Shock and awe.

All is explained here
The article is quite long, but the section titled "Why and When the Weekly Sabbath was Moved" more directly talks about this.

Silly Christians insisting it has something to do with a long deceased liberal Jew rather than the winter solstice or a fat house-breaker in a red suit constitute a war on Christmas. Have some sense folks. Leave well enough alone. Happy holidays, y'all, and a Merry Cristmas to boot.